Uh Oh Howard Dean taking over for Rachel

[AllentownJake]

Calling the plan a huge gift to the insurance industry if it has no Public Option.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. even worse, the anti- monopoly provisions were stripped.

[HipChick]

2. I like Howard Dean, but he has no biz hosting..

he's kinda a stiff, putting me to sleep

[AllentownJake]

3. yeah he sucks as a TV host

He's making a Bernie Sanders interview boring..that is hard.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Howard & Bernie speaking the truth, as they always do

what's wrong with that?

[AllentownJake]

10. I like it

but you'd expect those two to be more animated. It is like too Vermonters coming into the lodge for a beer and a casual conversation.

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Spitzer's coming up. Maybe he'll bash some Wall Street criminals

Let's get Howard worked up and get a YEEEEAAARRRGGGHHH out of him! :evilgrin:

[IndianaGreen]

8. If there is a time in which you should keep your ears open, it is right now!

Lots of good information!

[msongs]

17. he's not a glib sweet talker like....that other guy nt

[debbierlus]

21. I like Dean. I would rather have a stiff tell me the truth then a spokesmodel any day!

Rachel has him because he has integrity. Not an easy quality to find in a tv show news host!

[me b zola]

41. Too bad you couldn't keep up

It was a good show.

[Atticus]

5. Damn this guy!

He just INSISTS on speaking the truth!

[HipChick]

6. Weiner...now all we need is Grayson...and its a party!

[AllentownJake]

12. Bring in Al Franken and Russ as well

might as well get all the good guys on the same show....not in the same room though, unless is undisclosed.

[Bravo Zulu]

7. Howard is the man!

[zulchzulu]

9. Maybe Howard and Bernie can take a shit on the 14,000 people losing healthcare a day...

..since their precious Utopian Purity advice to kill healthcare reform (LIKE THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS) will fuck over small businesses, women, children, the poor, the unemployed, those who can't afford healthcare... oh wait, and the fucking millions who will be denied healthcare due to pre-existing conditions... for FUCKING YEARS TO COME... because these two (one a millionaire who can do whatever he wants and the other a Senator who has a nice healthcare package that we taxpayers pay for) have their panties in a bunch over the Public Option and would rather deny those mentioned so they can yuck it up with some others in their social rank and status.

I've never been more ashamed at Howard and Bernie or being such sanctimonious ASSHATS who would rather side with FILTHY REPIGS!

[AllentownJake]

11. Yes

That is what they are doing right now. Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean trying to get a Public Option is siding with the Filthy Repigs.

They are trying to save this party from itself.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Shove your 'purity' argument up your ass!

Your side has never compromised on anything. It is always progressives who have to give ground, beginning with Obama putting single payer off the table without even a discussion. Thank you, Rick Warren loving President!

12 to 24 million Americans will remain without any health care over the POS bill that you are defending. Obama wrote them off, just as he wrote off LGBTs and women of child bearing age.

[zulchzulu]

24. So let's just kill healthcare reform for another 15-20 years. Fuck it.

I get it now. If it's not all shiny and perfect, run over it with a tractor.

Dean is back to being a shithead like he was in 2004. Bernie is no surprise.

I hope the health insurance wankers send these pricks a fucking watch for Christmas.

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

26. People voted for universal health coverage, which this bill is NOT

and we certainly did not vote for "reform," particularly one that entailed a massive transfer of wealth from the working class to the insurance industry.

[zulchzulu]

29. So instead of possibly working toward universal health coverage, let's cancel it for 15+ years!

Dude, I am for a hybrid version of Canadian/Japanese/British Single Payer healthcare. I know the differences and I know how it could happen... but...

... that's not what the restaurant has on the menu right now... get it?

It's always been about getting single payer incrementally. That's political reality. Period.

I understand the anger and frustration with not getting PERFECT "universal health coverage" 10 months into a presidential administration. But the incredible lack of political understanding on how shit happens in DC is stunning.

Did people really think that some of the biggest lobbyist groups and special interests groups representing multi-billion dollar interests in DC were just going to sit on their ass and watch us pass Single Payer with all the goodies within a few months of getting back in power?

Do people REALLY think that the President is a Monarchistic King who bequeaths all the shit he wants and all must bow before his Highness?

This is a goddamn bloody battle and anyone who thinks it was going to be easy is delusional. Killing healthcare reform means actually being a proxy to killing people.

[IndianaGreen]

31. We are never going to get there with this gift to the industry

you can take that to the bank.

A real liberal would take the issue to the country by saying that a viable public option is to give people the choice to go under Medicare before they are 65.

BTW, HR676 the single payer bill is only 30 pages long. How long is Reid bill?

[zulchzulu]

35. I support HR676... but it's dead... Jim...

Why bring up HR676 when it has long been destroyed? Let's talk about NOW.

By voting against healthcare reform, both Republicans and anyone else are fully proving they are willing stooges of the healthcare insurance industry.

You can shoot yourself in the head with the best intentions, but you're still dead. You vote like a Republican because you thought the bill wasn't perfect, but you voted like a Republican.

So much great legislation had to be incrementally transformed. If such legislation was killed off before it could get improved, it only helps those that don't want change.

That said, I think there will be a Public Option of some kind in the final legislation. It just pisses me off that people think that we should kill off any chances of reform and thus make it untenable for years to come as a result if a less than perfect bill comes through after nearly sixty+ years of trying...

[IndianaGreen]

36. Destroyed by Obama!

Obama didn't even put it on the table because he favors the corporations.

[zulchzulu]

37. Have a link where Obama signed something that killed HR676?

I'd love to see that link if you can supply it.

[karynnj]

51. Did Howard Dean run in 2004 on Medicare for all?

Do you mean that Medicare should be something you can buy into or are you saying that people should be able to elect it for free? Many have actually thought that "free" was an option.

As to HR676 it is 30 pages because it was never marked up or treated seriously enough to deal with every possible contingency.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Medicare is not free to anyone.

Everybody on Medicare pays premiums, deductibles, copays and the works just like everybody else does. Most Americans are aware of this. So this meme that 'people thought is would be free' is just a made up thing to say. Medicare is never free to anyone. This is known by a majority of Americans.

[karynnj]

49. What all three candidates ran on was healthcare insurance reform

NO ONE, other than Kucinich ran on single payer. Obama specifically used the phrase universal access to healthcare insurance.

Even Howard Dean did not run on some of the things he is now calling for.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Obama also specifically used the pharse 'no individual

mandates for adults' so what's your point? That certain elements of what he specifically said on the trail are applicable, but others are not? Because if what he specifically said, and promised, and campaigned on in great detail, but in the positive and the negative, is actually important, then what about those mandates of his? Which he used to mock Clinton for supporting? What of that?

[karynnj]

57. I agree that he changed his position on mandates

What happened there was that in 2008, most experts thought that mandates were something that would kill the bill. After the Business council backed them, the politics changed.

This really was a tough issue - and in fact, Clinton and Edwards used his lack of mandates to say that his plan was not universal.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

55. Actually, O ran on --

healthcare reform, not health insurance reform. Please note how "heathcare reform" became "health isurance reform" -- we got bait and switched.

[karynnj]

56. No he didn't

People are playing games with wording. The "healthcare reform" he spoke of was that everyone have access to healthcare insurance. All of them ran on making insurance accessible.

What constitutes healthcare reform? Changing the way doctors practice medicine? Medicare for all?

[me b zola]

43. Do you remember "no child left behind"?

What Dr. Dean is saying is that all of the insurance reform aspects of the bill are gone. That w/o a real public option in the bill the results will be similar to those of no child left behind, except with an even more disastrous outcome. Health care would be worse, cost more, and in general be a huge give away to the health insurance industry. It will be disastrous in that people still won't have access to health care, but everyone will absolutely blame the Dems for the failure of the new legislation as the rw pundits point and yell "I told you so".


There is a point where it becomes a bad bill and this is what Dean & Sanders are warning of.

[AllentownJake]

50. Don't try to reason with them

The only thing they want is the signing ceremony for their picture threads.

[Better Believe It]

64. The Health Insurance Industry Protection Act will kill real reform for a generation if it passes.

[Sebastian Doyle]

15. Who's siding with the Filthy Repigs?

I'd say it's the congressional whores doing their best Monica Lewinsky impressions in the insurance company boardrooms.

[zulchzulu]

25. Howie and Bernie are suggesting Democrats vote like Repuglified bloodsuckers

If you vote "No" on reform like a Repuglified bloodsuckers, what does that make you?

The bitch of a Repuglified bloodsucker.

[IndianaGreen]

28. You didn't watch the show, obviously! They were talking about using reconciliation

rather than let a handful of DINOs hold the legislation hostage. They also said that without a viable public option, the bill would be a disaster as it would not be able to control costs.

[zulchzulu]

32. Howie is patting Bernie's back for wanting to vote against healthcare reform

It's disgusting.

Even without a "viable public option", there would at least be an end or an addressing to greedy insurance scams and an end to stopping coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

Howie and Bernie sure look cute together though. Relaxed even... why? Because Howie can buy whatever coverage he wants and Bernie gets his coverage from you and me. Aw, look at 'em smile at each other. So cute! So relaxed! They don't have to worry about the effects of killing healthcare and not seeing it come up again for another dozen years or so.

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

34. You mean Obama's freebie to PhRMA and the insurance industry

because that's really what you are talking about.

[zulchzulu]

38. Link?

So what EXACTLY are you talking about...

[IndianaGreen]

39. one of many links found with google

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/08/10/pharma/

you can also check DU archives for several threads on this very topic.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. Brilliant post. Yes, Howard Dean is all about shitting on the marginalized

It's his life!

I assume no sarcasm tag required.

[msongs]

18. it's not Howard Dean who's looking more and more like GW Bush's 3rd term nt

[snake in the grass]

22. Please send me your dealer's number.

I've got to get some of what you are smoking!

[MrMickeysMom]

23. Or....

Maybe you're just having a really bad asshat day.

[karynnj]

48. Thank you

What you said needs to be said.

[Phx_Dem]

19. Love Howard Dean to death, but this bill is much better than the status quo.

Legislating is ugly -- it's always either too much or too little, never just right. When you have so many people of different political ideology, this is what happens. One group doesn't get everything they want -- particularly when the only side fighting for health care reform is made up of progressives, liberals, moderates and conservatives, unlike the Republican party which has only conseratives to deal with.

This bill is a huge "foot in the door" and can be improved upon later. Dissing the "only game in town," is not helpful unless they want to kill it altogether.

[AllentownJake]

20. I think he's making a threat from the left

Seeing the only threats being taken seriously right now are from the right,

[zulchzulu]

27. Wow! I detect a brain working here!

I've tried explaining it this way, but when you have enablers like Howie and Bernie saying it's somehow a "good idea" to destroy any possibility of ANY health care reform because they (who are either wealthy enough to get whatever they want or have the government already giving them nice healthcare at our expense) don't get their pony, it's frankly something they can say and feel "good" about.

Yeah, so the 14,000 people losing their healthcare coverage a day or the millions who won't be able to stop their coverage from being taken away because of pre-existing conditions will have to just fucking wait... for a dozen or more years... see, Howie and Bernie can wink and nod and think they are so fucking cool and some will soak their phony vibes in and think that, by God, we killed health care... because the bill wasn't perfect!

Yay!

:puke:

[AllentownJake]

30. You are commenting on something you didn't watch

and exposed yourself as a moron.

[zulchzulu]

33. I watched it as long as I could stand...

Do you want to see my TV viewing log?

I saw and read Howard's views on this the past few days and weeks.

Dean clearly was cajoling Sanders about not voting for healthcare reform if there wasn't a public option. I could dig up the transcript.

The people exposing themselves as morons are the ones who think we should cancel any hopes of ANY healthcare reform for another dozen or more years.

[Sebastian Doyle]

40. If there's no public option, it shouldn't pass at all.

Because it is NOT reform, it's WORSE than the status quo, because all that remains is mandatory payments to corporations, enforced by law. Otherwise known as fascism.

[katkat]

42. sure Sebastian

I'm trying to figure out how partly closing the Medicare donut hole and giving Seniors a 50% break on med brand name prices is good for corporations. Maybe I don't get that just because it's late at night.

[Sebastian Doyle]

44. And when the DLC succeeds in privatizing Medicare

then what good will that do them?

[katkat]

45. talk about paranoia n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

46. No, they actually admit it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1348996

[madfloridian]

63. Wow, I was just trying to find that very article.

I could not think of the search terms, and nothing was showing up. That's amazing you remembered.

:hi:

[AllentownJake]

47. I have no clue what you think you are getting out of this Senate Bill

But you obviously think you are getting something...which you aren't.

I see no logic in your postings right now. Anger and no reason at targets that make little to no sense.

[karynnj]

58. I heard Dean speaking of the same things on the Morning Joe radio show

He was actually hoping the bill is defeated because "they would have to start over and reconciliation can get a good bill through in about 6 weeks". That is just wrong and ignores the Bryd amendment.

[Jakes Progress]

52. If the bill w/o Public Option

goes into effect next year, we can kiss the white house good bye. As the insurance company cashes in on the freely given loop holes and pharma becomes a bigger profiteer than energy, the country will blame only one person. This is the President's health bill. If it doesn't work (and it won't) he will get the blame. Fair or not, that is reality.

All the whiners who say that not passing the bill will put of reform for years are wrong. Pass this and we will never see reform. Republicans will reap the benefits of their obstructionist ways. Better would be to let the republicans vote health care down. Let them run on the record that they killed health care reform. Let them run on the record that they fought for insurance and pharma.

[Honeycombe8]

59. He's right. nt

[madfloridian]

60. Here are Dean's words just before he interviewed Bernie Sanders.

Raise your hand if you think this is ok. It in my mind hurts the very people it is supposed to be helping.

"With the Senate now less than a week away from debating health-care reform, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid now has a choice: stand firm on the public option or compromise it to get something passed.

"Those on the compromise side argue that we should just let the bill pass without a public option so we can get all of the good insurance reform that's in the bill. But there's a dirty little secret about this: The insurance reform is gone.

"In order to have insurance reform, you need two things. The first is making sure insurance companies can't turn you down for any reason. That's called guaranteed issue, and that's in the bill. But that's only effective if the coverage is affordable, and that's not in the bill.

"As the bill is written now, the insurance companies will still be allowed to gouge their customers if they have illnesses, to charge you two or three times what your neighbour gets charged.

"A lot of the insurance reform in this bill is gone. The only real reform that's left is the public option. And if that's compromised away, this bill is no longer health-care reform -- it's just a huge gift to the health insurance industry from the very same people who bailed AIG out, the American taxpayers."

This was at the start of the program when he could still see the teleprompter before they started hazing him by depriving him of seeing it in the 2nd half of the show.

[madfloridian]

61. So if you have pre-existing condition, can you afford to pay 3 times more

""As the bill is written now, the insurance companies will still be allowed to gouge their customers if they have illnesses, to charge you two or three times what your neighbour gets charged."

[BzaDem]

65. That is not true. The 3-1 ratio is for age, not health status.

Howard Dean is wrong. There are ratios for various things: age, tobacco use, and geographic areas. But NOT health status (meaning NOT pre-existing conditions).

And before people start saying something like "I assume Howard Dean knows what he is talking about," go here

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/11/18/hcbill.pdf

and read section 2701 a 1 A-B (page 80-81).

Howard Dean should read the bill before spouting such nonsense.

[Cha]

62. Dean watches out for us.