US Marines in Haiti: Back to colonialism

[inthebrain]

We ain't leaving. Drs Without Borders is also levying complaints about diverting planes with supplies so the military could land at the airport.

US Marines in Haiti: Back to colonialism
27 January 2010
The US media’s coverage of the catastrophe in Haiti has increasingly included articles and broadcast reports extolling the supposed humanitarian role of US soldiers and Marines in the Caribbean country. They generally describe how “combat-hardened” veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are lending a helping hand to the survivors of the earthquake.

Some of this reporting seems aimed at countering growing international criticism of the US militarization of the response to the Haitian disaster, which has given priority to rushing in combat-equipped troops over the provision of medical supplies, food and water desperately needed to save lives.

A spokesman for Doctors Without Borders, for instance, voiced concern over “the extreme confusion of distributing food with a gun.” The organization formally protested the repeated diversion of planes bringing it medical supplies after the US military seized control of the Port-au-Prince airport, saying that many of its patients have died as a result.

With hundreds of thousands dead and hundreds of thousands more injured, there is undoubtedly shock among the troops in Haiti at the scale of the devastation and sympathy for the suffering of the Haitian people.

Those in Washington who sent them there and the senior officers who command them, however, are operating on the basis of very different motives, as one recent press report on their mission makes clear.

USA Today published an article Monday headlined “Marines Studied Their Own History in Haiti,” describing the country as “a major part of Marine Corps lore.”


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/pers-j27.shtml

[hughee99]

1. How long until some repuke says it's because

Obama doesn't care about black people?

[grantcart]

2. Oh yes Troskyites sitting on their asses trying to make political points

while real people are trying to save real people who are really dying.

Unreported in the article is the fact that the United Nations Stability Mission in Haiti is coordinating all military and non military actions and that the Haiti government is in charge.

http://www.faxts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=228:haiti-military-playing-large-role-in-relief-efforts&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=121


UNITED NATIONS, Jan 25 (IPS) - As international attention turns to the long-term reconstruction of earthquake-stricken Haiti, U.N. officials pledged that the Haitian government would have full involvement and authority over the process.

”This relief and recovery process will not work without Haitian government ownership. They need to be in the lead,” Tony Banbury, the principal deputy special representative of the secretary-general for the U.N. Stabilisation Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH), told reporters via satellite on Monday.

”Of course there is a huge role for different components of the international community. We can be very helpful to the Haitian government, providing them clear information on our assessment of needs, the capabilities we can bring to bear, how best to deliver the assistance, et cetera. But the Haitian government needs to be the one taking responsibility for the big decisions that are going to affect their people,” he said.

In Montreal on Monday, Edmond Mulet, the assistant secretary-general for peacekeeping operations, presented a United Nations proposal at an emergency donor meeting on Haiti, attended by over a dozen countries, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and several other aid agencies.


Of course some people may not be aware that the military in Haiti was disbanded and the police decimated by the earthquake.

Onward irrelevent self absorbed comrades onward. More victims in the world are waiting to be exploited!!

[inthebrain]

4. So I suppose when Drs without Borders are complaining about their supplies being

diverted and misdelivered it holds no meaning for you.

Not to mention what also is not mentioned in this article is that 12,000 nurses volunteered to go from the US and were not offered ANYTHING in terms of transportation or support.

[grantcart]

5. No I have a very high opinion of Doctors Without Borders

In fact from 1978 to 1985 I worked very closely with MSF in the refugee camps of South East Asia. In fact I still have problems getting into a helicopter stemming from a particular harrowing helicopter ride I took with them to the Anambas Islands to find 60,000 previously unknown refugees that were stuck on an uninhabited island.

You can see a clip of one of the camps here: http://archives.cbc.ca/society/immigration/clips/2717/


My problem is with lazy posters who go to a Communist website to quote MSF when the magic of the World Wide Web will take us to their actual statement.

Here is the press release that the MSF issued.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.com/press/release.cfm?id=4176&cat=press-release

Having worked in similar situations I can tell you that everyone thinks that their priority is the only priority. Those that are deciding the issues have to balance medical supplies against food supplies against public health supplies.

While the MSF are screeming that 5 patients just died because of medical attention CDC experts are yelling that if their water purification machines and their generators do not land 10,000 will die. In the meantime another day without food is about to pass for thousands more, everyone is screeming for landing time.

So just like the triage that MSF has to face in the operating room logistics experts have to triage with landing time and warehouse supplies.

Here is a list of all of the articles by MSF about Haiti, and none of them have anything that reflect the quote about "distrubiting food with a gun". In fact I call it another outright lie by WSWF because MSF is very careful to comment only about actual access to medical care and does not comment on food distribution or other agencies involved in disaster assistance.

By the way one of the people I met on that remote Indonesia Island? He was the Minister of Finance for the Viet Cong. He told me that all of the top Viet Cong Cadre were thrown into prison, re education camps or new economic zones when the North Vietnamese came in, ironically just like Stalin did to Trotsky, and thus ended whatever romantic allusions I had left about communists.

Now you can continue to post lies from the losers at WSWS just don't expect them to go unchallenged.

Oh and that Marine in Haiti, he has done a lot more for humanity helping there than you have ever done here by posting lies from the WSWS.

[inthebrain]

7. YOur source that you claim the WSW misrepresents actually backs what the WSW is saying;

Nothing has been taken out of context;
----------------------------------------
“We have had five patients in Martissant health center die for lack of the medical supplies that this plane was carrying,” said Loris de Filippi, emergency coordinator for the MSF’s Choscal Hospital in Cite Soleil. “I have never seen anything like this. Any time I leave the operating theater I see lots of people desperately asking to be taken for surgery. Today, there are 12 people who need lifesaving amputations at Choscal Hospital. We were forced to buy a saw in the market to continue amputations. We are running against time here.”
---------------------------------


------------------------------

“It is like working in a war situation,” said Rosa Crestani, MSF medical coordinator for Choscal Hospital. “We don’t have any more morphine to manage pain for our patients. We cannot accept that planes carrying lifesaving medical supplies and equipment continue to be turned away while our patients die. Priority must be given to medical supplies entering the country.”
------------------



Those quotes are from the article you linked and not taken out of context in the WSW article. Lazy posters usually give a knee jerk reaction attacking the source rather than consider if what is being said is true or false.

[grantcart]

8. This is the lie that is made in the article

A spokesman for Doctors Without Borders, for instance, voiced concern over “the extreme confusion of distributing food with a gun"

This is an absolute lie.

The quotes that you have selected describe the problems that they are facing. At no point in any of the MSF articles do they argue that their supplies have been displaced by other less worthwhile supplies, and that those decisions were made by the American military.

In my hypothetical example I made the example of water purification and a generator, seemingly mundane items, having higher profile need (and more mundande) than surgical supplies.

In this MSF article they describe how 50 patients were not able to take advantage of a dialysis machine because they didn't have a generator and clean water.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.com/news/article.cfm?id=4229&cat=voice-from-the-field

So let's review:

1) Nothing stated by the MSF supports the basic premise of the WSWS article that the relief effort is a "return to colonialism".

2) Complaints by the MSF that they are not getting their supplies and people are going to die are echoed by public health, food distribution and search and rescue NGOs, everybody wants all of their supplies in now. That's what makes it such a crisis.

3) There is nothing on the MSF site that criticizes the overall prioritization of logistics and supply importation that is being coordinated by the UN under the authority of the Haitan government.

4) The WSWS will distort any news event to promote its communist ideological agenda, and without shame, even in instances where disasters occur. If only they could blame the earthquake on the CIA.

5) Those that follow the WSWS are the left equivalent to climate change deniers on the right. They will manipulate any news story to fit the ideological answer that they had in hand when they started, and no fact will be allowed in that will disprove their point.

6) You have avoided the central point of the OP and that is that the coordination of logistics supplies is not related to an effort of colonialization and that the UN Stabilization Mission for Haiti admits that it continues to have problems:

http://www.newkerala.com/news/fullnews-39361.html

"There is a lot of talk about coordination, but the fact that there's a need for it and a lot of talk for it doesn't make it easy to accomplish on the ground," Anthony Banbury, acting Principal Deputy Special Representative of the Secretary-General for MINUSTAH, told reporters in New York via videolink from the capital, Port-au-Prince.

Coordination is complicated by the number of people working on the ground, many new to the country, who have different backgrounds, priorities and perspectives, he said.

"While I think everyone wants to do what's best for the Haitian people and the Haitian Government, really being committed to coordination and being willing to all move in the same direction, that's a true challenge," Banbury stressed.


Anyone who has been involved in this kind of relief effort understands the problems involved. Those that read the WSWS for news will just have to wait until the next article so that the WSWS can tell them what they are supposed to think.

[inthebrain]

20. It was Dr benoit Leduc who said that

Sorry, but the article got it right. Drs Without Borders were pissed about their supplies being diverted and the WSW is not the only source reporting "“the extreme confusion of distributing food with a gun.” which is attributed to Dr Benoit Leduc.
------------------------------
"We are facing logistical constraints," Leduc said, adding that it was unclear who was in charge of the country and the coordination of the aid efforts.

Several of the agency's planes carrying humanitarian supplies, including medicine, have been delayed by up to 48 hours as they were not given permission to land at the airport in the capital, now run by the United States.

The US military was present in the country to help bring order to the chaos which ensued following the quake that left Haiti's government in disarray.

Leduc said his organization was generally concerned about the "militarization of aid" and "the extreme confusion of distributing food with a gun."

MSF said it has managed to treat over 3,000 people so far and conducted over 500 surgeries but required more supplies, as aid workers admitted humanitarian relief was slow in reaching the people in need of food, water and medical help.

Amputation, trauma and head injuries were among the main medical emergencies the organization was dealing with, MSF said.

Also, Loris de Filippi, a medic with MSF, said vaccinations were a priority, as even prior to the quake, the country had one of the worst inoculation rates in the Americas.

MSF reported renewed security concerns, with shots being fired as the organization tried to bring fuel into the country for vehicles and hospitals that run almost entirely on generators.

"Things are tense, people are shocked, so there is more reason to get frustrated when aid or care or food (delivery) is not fully implemented," Leduc said.


http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/304475,doctors-aid-efforts-facing-constraints.html

[grantcart]

23. Again proving the vapid trotskyite practice of cherry picking quotes

and using any distortion to try and make an ideological point.


Now here is the complete news conference with Leduc. In it there is no criticism of any particular action by the US military other than the frustration already discussed.

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13014:doctors-without-borders-teleconference-on-haiti-earthquake-january-18-2010&catid=88888993:haiti-earthquake&Itemid=88890263

Specifically on the delayed transport Leduc does not accuse the American military of acting in any kind of bad faith.

WSJ: So was the blame the US military not giving you the clearance to land, they control the aiport, or was it the cluster system that the UN put in place?

Benoit: Between the 2 systems I don’t think there is a smooth liaison in who decides what. It’s not clear to us, as I said before. Then yesterday we clearly had 2 planes diverted with cargo inside. People had been informed, I think the US were on the ground at the airport. The airspace, maybe I think it’s the Haitians but please confirm, because I think it’s changing all the time who is controlling. The planes didn’t land, and this was yesterday afternoon.

Avril: We have had 4 cargo flights that successfully have flown to Port-au-Prince, with a total tonnage of 135. We have 2 cargo flights that flew to Dominican Republic with their total tonnage being 65. At the moment we have 6 cargo flights planned for the rest of this week, with a total tonnage of 195

Now to the point of "militarizing aid" here is the complete quote. It shows that the key principle for the MSF is operational efficiency and that over rides all other concerns. The question of militarizing humanitarian aid is a general question that has long term questions but is not relevent to the immediate question of using what every agency is able to effect the quickest response.

Benoit:

. Then, it’s a more general question about the militarization of humanitarian (aid). You know, the military distributing food, and at the same time having a gun, it’s extremely confusing. It’s a constraint for us in places like Afghanistan, in Iraq, in all the areas where military staff are doing humanitarian action or at least perform such actions under that name. So this is something that we are concerned with in MSF in general. To come back to your question, for Haiti, I think for whoever controls the airport to facilitate planes that have the emergency and needed equipment - this is the first problem right now

And now here is the New York Times asking specfically about the military and security. He admits that he isn't in a good position to respond to the macro operational question - the basic point in my initial reply. If he wanted to criticize the US military he would have here. He does say that there is a complete absence of security forces on the street.



23:46 NYT: I have a couple of questions on the airport and on security. I ran your complaints by , who’s the head of logistics for peacekeeping. She said it’s just too small of an airport to handle the number of flights that come flooding in from all over the world, and they had to come up with a list of priorities, so they said water, food, and then medical equipment. While she conceded that your hospital is important, she said 24 hours to get to Santo Domingo, given the size of the airport, is not a terrible delay. I would wonder how you would react to that. Second, I heard they are beefing up police force, they have more police this morning, because they want these humanitarian deliveries to be guarded. Are you seeing problems? Do you think that’s a good idea, that they bring in extra 3,500 troops mostly to guard humanitarian convoys?

Benoit: I will repeat, we have 48 hour’s delay, so we are frustrated, we have doctors who have patients in some of the structures without the proper drugs or the equipment to perform the operations they need, it’s a fact. We are 2 days behind on the operations because of this access. Of course, it’s a small airport, of course there are a lot of planes, but then it’s clearly a matter of defining priorities. We have the staff on the ground, we have the structures missing some staff. It’s frustrating. Then, I’m not the best person to answer about the deployment. Of course, we just want the operations to go on. So, for the moment we don’t see a lot of either police, either UN in the streets, only in certain strategic places or roundabouts, but the streets are pretty empty of police, this is what I can say.

This shows clearly that WSWS and you have completely taken the MSF's comments about a general concern over the long term use of military in humanitarian aid and used it in the highly dramatic situation following the immediate collapse of infrastructure currently in Haiti. Leduc says it clearly:


First, we just want the aid operation to be efficient. So far I think we can gain in efficiency; it's needed.


The misuse of MSF was simply a way of showing how the WSWS misuses sources and international organizations or anything to advance their ideology. Why they are accepted here is beyond me because they, and apparently you, are ideological enemies of the Democratic Party.

The basic point of the article, which you continue to avoid is that the use of the US military is a subterfuge to recolonize Haiti.

My son-in-law is Haitian and I can tell you that all Haitians are united in support of the US military helping in Haiti but don't take my word for it.


And here is the UN asking for additional troops because the deteriorating security situation is affecting the ability to get food out

UN wants more police and troops for Haiti

http://www.ctpost.com/default/article/UN-wants-more-police-and-troops-for-Haiti-326660.php

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. mission in Haiti wants 2,000 additional troops and 1,500 extra police to provide military escorts for aid convoys and ensure that desperately needed food and water is distributed to earthquake victims without any violence, U.N. officials said Monday.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon told the Security Council the U.N. needs to strengthen its current Haiti force, which has 7,000 military peacekeepers and 2,100 international police, to deal with the increasing demands on the world body following last week's earthquake.

The Security Council must lift the current ceiling for the force, and U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff said he expects a U.S.-draft resolution to be unanimously approved on Tuesday.

U.N. peacekeeping chief Alain Le Roy said the extra soldiers are essential because of the "tremendous" number of requests to escort humanitarian convoys.

"We are stretched," he told reporters, saying the U.N. World Food Program alone is bringing in 60,000 tons of food quickly which must get to over 200 distribution points.

Le Roy said the U.N. also needs extra troops to secure the routes the convoys will be using, and for "a reserve force" in case the security situation deteriorates further.

The neighboring Dominican Republic has already offered an 800-strong battalion which will deploy later this week to secure the road from Port-au-Prince to the Dominican border, the only land bridge outside the battered country, he said.

France's U.N. Ambassador Gerard Araud said European Union foreign ministers agreed Monday to send an unspecified number of police.
Tex
"We have to act very quickly and very strongly," Araud said.

Le Roy cited the often unruly crowds at points where food and water is being distributed. He said the extra U.N. police officers will also help the Haitian police who are returning to the streets in "limited numbers."

The WSWS use of MSF quotes was completely dishonest.

Alleging that the US military involvement has any other agenda than the immediate security and humanitarian one is dishonest.

Ignoring that the United Nations is already involved militarily in the Haiti with its Peacekeeping and Stabilization force is dishonest.



The WSWS is a completely dishonest source of news as it is committed to its communist ideology. People who do not understand this and continue to use them here are either lavish lap dogs to its agenda, paid posters or dupes, take your choice.

[inthebrain]

26. YOu haven't disproven anything

Sure, you've now bombed the thread with links and quotes but none of them stacks up or contradicts the original claim.

Many of them actually SUPPORTS IT.

[cliffordu]

12. Where the fuck wouild those nurses stay? would you divert food to feed the

nurses??

I just love communists . Always ready to stand on dead bodies to second guess any act by normal people

[inthebrain]

13. Yeah, it better to feed the troops instead

Those guys know how to perform dressing changes and assessments.

Who needs nurses in this situation.

You guys crack me up.

[NavyMom]

16. No, you are "cracked up" with your asinine posting....these marines are

trained just like or sometimes better than nurses as sometimes during a mission they are the only help a wounded soldier has. The Red Cross already stated these volunteers should've registered with an organizations on the ground not just a third party, they stated the nurses, doctors that volunteered with them allowed them to plan flights sometimes on other planes like the C130 that brought in generators or equipment to repair the airport or dock along with getting them to ships docked off the coast then flying them in on helicopter....

keep moving nothing to see here

[inthebrain]

18. You lost me when you claimed that a soldier is better trained to treat people

than a nurse.

[hack89]

21. In many cases they are - especially for trauma victims.

The fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan has brought about a major change in how the United States deals with combat casualties. The result is that over 90 percent of the troops wounded, survive their wounds. That's the highest rate in history. There are several reasons for this. The main one is that medics, and the troops themselves, are being trained to deliver more complex, and effective first aid more quickly. Military doctors now talk of the "platinum 10 minutes," meaning that if you can keep the wounded soldier, especially the ones who are hurt real bad, alive for ten minutes, their chances of survival go way up. Medics have been equipped and trained to perform procedures previously done only by physicians, while troops are trained to do some procedures previously handled only by medics.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20100126.aspx

[inthebrain]

25. THey are talking about the canadien military

and no, soldiers learning basic first aid are not a suitable substitution for an RN that already has that under their belt AND MORE!!!!

This argument by both of you is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard.

[NavyMom]

30. Apparently you have not noticed your own posts, they are beyond stupid

these men had to have more trauma training to protect their fellow soldiers.

[hack89]

33. Don't read very well do you?

The fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan has brought about a major change in how the United States deals with combat casualties.


and

Medics have been equipped and trained to perform procedures previously done only by physicians

[NavyMom]

29. No you are just lost. Period. Thanks to bushie these men have seen

and experienced things that gives them nightmares. Part of their training is triage, how to keep their compatriots alive so they can make it to a hospital, there is a big difference between a nurse and a emergency room or surgical nurse as the later have more training which is what my brothers had. I come from a military family, Marines, USNavy, Air Force and Coast Guard and each family gathering you hear of their experiences, three of my brothers are STILL in combat and they were TRAINED medical even though they may have a medic within the unit if that person went down others had to step in. Since I trained to be a nurse (could not continue due to bad accident) so yeah I know the difference in the training I received versus what my family members in the field knows, so shut your pie hole.

[inthebrain]

37. You're posting to a nurse right now

I am a nurse.

Sorry, but I know more. I do it every single day.

I also have a lot more in depth training. I've worked with folks that were in the military and learned the same things you mentioned. They would even tell you that you don't know a damn thing you are talking about. One of my best friends was in the military, graduates nursing school and is now a surgical nurse. He relays to me on a daily basis that the training he got outside the military was much more intense and in depth.

Nurses to know how to triage AND KEEP THEM ALIVE IN THE HOSPITAL. Military grunts do now know how to keep people alive in the hospital and with their brief training do not have the in depth knowledge to make split second decisons in a triage situation. The common med surge bed side nurse knows a hell of fuck of a lot more.

[TheWraith]

28. Doctors Without Borders is NOT complaining. They have no problem with the diversions.

As they have said repeatedly in public. Three out of their 12 flights got diverted, presumably because of the airport's limited capacity, and crazy people like WSWS are trying to make stuff up out of it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

19. Well according to Ted Rall, the U.S. is mowing down Haitian women and children with machine guns

So it could be worse.

[tranche]

3. “combat-hardened” veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan

This is editorialism. I don't see why they were described as "combat-hardened". We have a small volunteer army all of whom have done multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. They could just as well be described as "tired-and-weary", "overworked-and-overstretched". It sounds as if we're sending in our best soldiers readying for a fight.

[apocalypsehow]

6. Another UnRec for this dishonest article from a dubious source.

:thumbsdown:

[Sultana]

9. Bullshite

[dionysus]

10. they're "invading" haiti to steal what exactly, comrade?

or is this extrapolating the "america is evil" mindset these jokers have?
:eyes:

[Phx_Dem]

11. When people are starving and dying and someone is distributing food,

you probably shouldn't bitch about it. Maybe Doctors without Borders (which is an outstanding organization) would like to take over food and water distribution?

Marines carry guns. Always. If they aren't shooting anyone, why the fuck do you care?

[Kaleva]

14. unrec'd

[NavyMom]

15. My son is there with the USNavy & I effng resent the bs thrown around about the military

why don't they show how the UN troops cannot control a crowd and will then take the relief (food, water) back to the warehouse. Anytime the US gives out aid it is orderly, they are in line, they ensure only one meal at a time, they also take away weapons, will take food back from those that steal and if they run out of food will pass out to the ones that did not receive meals the previous time is the first in line.

I am very proud of our military, the Haitians prefer the Americans, which rankles some people, help in whatever the issue as they trust them more than their own police or UN officers that was there before and say the criminals are scared of the Americans. The gang members that escaped the prison has gone back to their old haunts, raping, killing and this week burned down a bank then robbed it with other members standing outside with guns and the police nor UN did NOTHING. My son said the women feel so safe around our military because they offer actual protection. These doctors complaining about their flights failed to mention these flights were after some of the other flights or have the option of landing in the Dominican Republic and having these shipments flown in which is what the military and others are doing since there is limited space at these small airports.

Here's to all the countries bitching about our military, KISS MY ENTIRE BLACK AZZ.

[zulchzulu]

32. Thank your son for his service there

It must be unbelievable...

[Jennicut]

39. Thank you and your son.

The US military is not evil, it was misused over the years by people above the soldiers.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

40. God bless him...

And I'm sure the people of Haiti appreciate your son's service -- unlike some of the morons on this board.

[timeforpeace]

17. Actually, the Caribbean countries that remain colonies (BVIs, Cayman Islands) are quite wealthy and

modern, unlike those that went the independence route.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

22. It's bullshit like this that allows the pukes to make liberal a four letter word.

[inthebrain]

27. They are not liberals

If you think they are then you have no idea what a liberal really is.

[boppers]

24. WSWS.org: Deceit out of the gate.

No point in reading it.

[zulchzulu]

31. Ferchrissakes...World Socialist Web Site thinks US Marines should leave Haiti!

Wow!

[hayu_lol]

34. How many members of Doctors Without Borders...

are wandering around on their own distributing food and water? Or, are they like most Docs, standing around the hospitals of their choice waiting for someone(perish the thought that troops would be bringing in their supplies for them)? Someone has to feed and water these people. Sorry that these most important Docs were temporarily rebuffed in their efforts.

Lets see, talking about the nurses now. 12,000 nurses. How many tents would be required for their 'village?' How many generators for their village. What kind of water supplies/food supplies and preparation points/shower points would they require? How about their clean laundry? Are they bringing all that in with them? Who sets it up for them.

Before going for all that, isn't it more important to use our troops to look for people, rejoin separated families, get the wounded to hospitals/first aid points? 12,000 nurses would be a tremendous burden for overworked troops to take care of.

DWB, the 12,000 nurses, and all the whiners and criers telling us how important they personally are to this effort, ought to just wait their turn to bask in the glory they seek.

Our troops are doing just fine the way things are.

[Phx_Dem]

35. I guess cops shouldn't help people in need either since they also carry guns.

LAME!

[backscatter712]

36. I suppose that's why Haitians have been chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as our troops save lives.

Sorry, but this military expedition is one I unconditionally support. The one where we save lives instead of take lives.

The World Socialist Web Site can suck it!

[proteus_lives]

38. More wsws horse-shit.

:thumbsdown:

[Mudoria]

41. +1