LOL.....you can't be against the Patriot Act when Bush was in office and like it now!!

[KansasVoter]

This place is unbelievable.

If Obama supports it then it must be OK????

I love Obama, but folks, his ass is wrong on some stuff and this is one of them.

Some people here sound like Bush supporters did. Justifying anything the president does just because they like him.

[msongs]

1. looks like Bush is getting a third term in some cases eh? change you can believe in. ok nt

[ixion]

2. I know, amazing, isn't it?

I didn't support that crap under *, and I'm sure as hell not going to support it now.

[paulsby]

15. my prediction came true

i have a relative (rightwinger) who claimed that obama would "dismantle) the security state apparatus of the post 9/11 era, specifically the patriot act. i told her, political campaigning aside, i strongly doubted that he would make any significant changes to the patriot act.

[Truth2Tell]

26. Are you happy about that? nt

[timeforpeace]

27. The level of hypocrisy is stunning. No true principles, just political expediency.

[karynnj]

36. Some people do not see it as black and white as you

There was maybe 20% bad and 60 % good in that bill. (Those numbers are heuristic.)

[tavalon]

45. Extremely heuristic

Absurdum infinitum.

[karynnj]

49. The fact is that the tools to make international money transfers more transparent

that were included in that bill are important, not just to making it easier "to follow the money", but even for going after tax cheats. I used the word heuristic, because there is no way to really measure that, but even Senator Feingold, the only Senator to vote against it said that there was more good than bad. Kerry spoke of agreeing with either 80 or 90 percent (the uncertainty is mine) - and he said that is why the sunset was put in.

The fact is that when it was voted on the second time, to passing a better bill was not eliminating it, but keeping the original bill.

[paulsby]

28. i think there are some aspects of the patriot act

that are overbroad and problematic. but some of it is fine with me. i am not sure exactly which elements are being referred to in this case.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. Give me a break. He sets out to dismantle Guantanamo, he says there will be

transparency there was not under Bush, and much more, but unless he follows your instructions and instantly change absolutely everything, you're not content?

Uh.. I'd like to see what your life is like. I sure hope you change things instantly and dramatically in your life, as you wish others to do.

(You probably don't, as instant change is not possible)

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Wow. Such a personal attack.

The venom coupled with the lack of cogent rebuttal is just stunning. Mean is not a position and certainly not a persuader.

[Chemisse]

14. Venom?

LOL - you haven't been out much. That is quite polite compared to what we so often see on this forum.

[mikelgb]

23. Pay attention to what he does not what he says.

Gitmo is still open, Transparency? BWAHHAH, and much more...

Shit I just want him to follow his own damn instructions.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Abuses are still ongoing at Gitmo and Bagram

and the god knows how many other concentration camps.

[Gman2]

4. I thought you were talkin repug, What WAS protecting USA is now dictatorship!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

5. "No we can't! No we can't!". nt

[hileeopnyn8d]

6. I didn't see

where people were defending the Patriot Act, what I saw was people pointing out that, unfortunately, it isn't easy to change/repeal.

Just because some people don't jump on the bandwagon and post little talking points like "where's my change", "empty suit", and "lying fucking con-man" doesn't mean they support something.

It just means they are slightly more able to participate in mature discussion. Or at least know when it won't be worth their time to try and have a discussion.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. No one claimed it would be easy. So those pointing out

that the sky is blue might expect a tad of ridicule. Oh, it's hard. Of course it is. Being redundant and pointing out the obvious as if it were wisdom is not mature argument. Nor is indulgence in self praise.
Bush whined about hard work too. Being leader of the free world is not a cake walk, no one said it was, and whining about the level of difficulty is just childish.

[HamdenRice]

17. So you knew that the P.A. amended the US Code?

"those pointing out that the sky is blue might expect a tad of ridicule."

You understood the piecemeal nature of repeal of the US Code before today? If not, then it doesn't seem like explaining the process would be the equivalent of "pointing out the sky is blue."

[Naturyl]

33. It's particularly hard to repeal

If the president makes no effort to do so.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Undercurrent]

9. Agreed!

Well... except for the penis part. :P

[uponit7771]

11. Maybe an TP of why the Patriot Act can't be dismantle right now would help us...I'm not familiar

...with it either but I'm not going to add to the flame post that has taken over DU as of late...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. Yup --

I didn't like it under Bush, still think it's shit under O. I am no hypocrite.

[Kaleva]

13. I wasn't against it when Bush was Pres and I'm fine with it now.

No change in my attitude towards the Patriot Act.

[HamdenRice]

16. So are you saying explaining the actual process of repeal is being for the PA?

I forgot. On DU simply knowing stuff is often considered bad, bad, bad.

[tavalon]

46. Huh?

This is a bastion of knowledge. It's also a kneejerk parade, most of the time. But, no point for you on this one.

[treestar]

18. I don't think the quoted article really established Obama's position

It was just some assumptions from a person interviewed.

Plus, the PA was huge (wasn't that part of our complaint? And Congress hadn't read it all). Some of it may have been fine.

[phleshdef]

19. If they repeal the questionable parts and ensure the law is followed, I don't care.

That was my problem during the Bush years and thats my problem now. There is no inconsistency. Its the same with wiretapping. They can wiretap the whole friggin country for all I care, just as long as they respect the FISA court and get their warrants as they law requires, it doesn't bother me. Whatcha got to say about that?

[Sinti]

20. I have not seen anyone on these boards who supports PATRIOT Act

under President Obama that did not support it under Bush. We had defenders of the Stasi Act even then. They are fearful people who need a lot of authority to protect them. John Conyers would like to address this egregious overstep of authority we call PATRIOT I, has a bill in Congress to that regard and...

The Obama administration, meanwhile, announced last month it was willing to consider “modifications” to the Patriot Act “provided that they do not undermine the effectiveness of these important authorities.”

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/conyers_bill/

[Hoopla Phil]

21. K and R

[KansasVoter]

39. Thanks!

[endless october]

22. against it then, against it now.

rescind the unconstitutional patriot act immediately.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

24. After FISA and indefinate detention this was no surprise

but it still pisses me off. I am blown away at the cheerleaders on DU defending this.

[LWolf]

25. Sure you can.

It takes a lack of integrity, and a passionate desire to support a leader regardless of the quality of that leadership.

[dana_b]

29. my party - right or wrong!!

:puke:

[keepthemhonest]

30. Not OK with it with any president

I am an Obama lover, but this carrying over some of Bush worst polidies is driving me nuts.We need to stop this.

[Phx_Dem]

31. You also don't have to be "all in" or "all out" for the Patriot Act.

Parts of it are, and always have been, fine by me. Like listening in on overseas phone calls (not involving a party in the U.S).

[Djinn]

42. yeah why should I have any rights to privacy

it's my fault for not being born in or emigrating to the world's 'bastion of freedom'

[tavalon]

47. Because them furriners are shifty

Right?

[Phx_Dem]

50. Some of them are alot more than "shifty." But what the hell,

just let them plan their next attack. Who gives a shit right?

[Naturyl]

32. K&R

Bad policies don't magically become good under Obama.

[democracy1st]

34. its stupid and disgusting to watch these people overlook this Goldman Sachs admin!

[karynnj]

35. I would like to wait for the real details - the fact is all Senators thought there were good parts

even Feingold was ok with about 80% of it. That is what after Democrats successfully filibustered - twice, I think - it, they ended up voting for a version that peeled out the worst provisions. There was then a bipartisan amendment, that died in that Senate, where Senators like Spector, Feingold, Kerry and Kennedy sought to remove additional provisions.

The problem here is that there are some kneejerk people who don't realize that the anti - international money laundering have been used against nonstate terrorist, international drug rings and I think some tax evaders.

PS - though searching DU is time consuming, this was my position under Bush as well.

[Number23]

37. I agree. But the rhetoric from some here towards Obama is repulsive

I am not for any expansion or extension of the Patriot Act.

[rasputin1952]

38. The "Patriot Act" is one of the worst pieces of legislature...

this nation has ever been assaulted with. The Alien and Sedition Act was terrible, but the PA is downright atrocious...:grr:

[sohndrsmith]

40. I was against it then and I'm against it now. When I voted for Obama

I was not under any delusion or expectation that I would agree with or like every, single thing he did.

I didn't like every view and position he had when he was campaigning, so why would I now?

Let's see - is there a millisecond that goes by where I think, "Gee, I'm so disappointed in Obama that it would've probably been better if McCain/Palin had won."

... Obama was hit with the political, economic, historical equivalent of a thousand Mack trucks filled with crises and destruction and there is still no one I would rather have at the helm in dealing with this mess.

I'm disappointed and surprised by some of the decisions Obama has made, absolutely. (Notice the anti-Obama goofballs calling him like a Messiah, or his supporters being in some sort of trance-like adoration... has disappeared because it was always pure hogwash).

I think it's good to challenge him when he seems to contradict what he stood for. That's healthy. That said, I, personally, don't get the PDBs, and I'm not present during high-level classified meetings - or any meetings - so I can't begin to rationalize what Obama has since learned in the course of his presidency that has made him alter his approach and positions.

The fact that I don't like positions he's taken since January doesn't mean he deserves my blanket disapproval. He may earn that at the end of his term, but somehow I doubt it. Until then, unless something drastic occurs, I reserve judgment on a final position.

Remember the alternative: McCain... and... Palin.

[tavalon]

48. Red herring

This is not Obama or McCain. We are talking about the things that Obama is doing and when he does the same thing that Cheney, er, Bush did, it isn't any more right than it was under Cheney. McCain has nothing to do with it.

[donheld]

43. Can't - Won't

[tavalon]

44. Someone said that?

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.