Obama Quietly Backs Patriot Act Provisions

[kpete]

Source: IPS

Obama Quietly Backs Patriot Act Provisions
William Fisher

NEW YORK, 23 Nov (IPS) - With the health care debate preoccupying the mainstream media, it has gone virtually unreported that the Barack Obama administration is quietly supporting renewal of provisions of the George W. Bush-era USA Patriot Act that civil libertarians say infringe on basic freedoms.

........

When a panicky Congress passed the act 45 days after the terrorist attacks of Sep. 11, 2001, three contentious parts of the law were scheduled to expire at the end of next month, and opponents of these sections have been pushing Congress to substitute new provisions with substantially strengthened civil liberties protections.

But with the apparent approval of the Obama White House and a number of Republicans – and over the objections of liberal Senate Democrats including Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Dick Durbin of Illinois – the Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to extend the three provisions with only minor changes.

Those provisions would leave unaltered the power of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to seize records and to eavesdrop on phone calls and e-mail in the course of counterterrorism investigations.

Read more: http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=2694

[budkin]

1. Why? I don't understand.

[Why Syzygy]

5. Are you serious?

You haven't noticed anything yet?

[KakistocracyHater]

240. I notice that cell calls tend to end weird, I hang up & the cell calls itself

back. Other times the texts were bizarrely deleted & months' old texts popped into place, instead. A Christmas card arrived at a friend's house in Febuary, just 1 guess as to her race. Also phone calls sound echo-like & there seems to be an open line, sometimes it rings & something picks up a phone, then rings still & the person I actually dialed answers.

[marshall]

28. He either thinks it's a good thing OR he thinks changing it is a fight he can't win

Those are basically the two options.

[winyanstaz]

64. There is another option which you seem to have left out altogether....

America has been played.

[Ter]

90. Or option number three:

The real people in charge warned him not to change the Patriot Act.

[whatacountry09]

115. OPTION THREE IS EXACTLY WHAT I BELIEVE

Unfortunately, I strongly believe that our President (like JFK) wanted to change a lot things; however, his hands are tied - only he wasn't fully aware of that during his campaign. As George Carlin said... "we" ain't in the club and our President IS one of us!

[Name removed]

187. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whatacountry09]

201. My Reply to: backtomn

Yo... backtomn - are you for real? I am so confused by your reply to me. If you actually read my post, stupid nor black were not mentioned at all.

What I am saying is that MY PRESIDENT'S HANDS ARE TIED BECAUSE OF HIGHER AUTHORITIES. He may be Commander-In-Chief, but CLEARLY you don't seem to realize that he's not the one in charge of this fine country. And apparently, My President didn't realize the actual control he does 'not' possess being the President.

Now... what I would suggest is that you go and research the 'real' OWNERS of this "free country, America" OR... go listen to George Carlin's stand-up routine... then when you do get it... think before you put your fingers to the keyboard and respond back.

To make part of the whole research process easy on you - watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cz4vcQKWfA&feature=related

[robertpaulsen]

208. Carlin is great, but I think Bill Hicks spells it out better.

I miss them both.

"It's just a handful of people that run everything, and that's provable.... I have this feeling that whoever's elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what promises you make on the campaign trail - blah, blah, blah - when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialist, capitalist ***** that got you in there, and this little screen comes down... and it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before, which looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll.... And then the screen comes up, the lights come on, and they say to the new president, 'Any questions?'

[humbled_opinion]

213. Are you serious?

You know you are making an argument that Electing Sarah Palin is exactly what this country needs to shake it up...

LOL

[robertpaulsen]

220. Damn, you had me there!

When President Palin sees those 12 industrialists in a smoky room, she'll say, "We've met before, haven't we?" Then she'll give 'em that goddamned wink of hers.

Sorry, I think I just made myself sick.

:puke:

[yurbud]

223. then she'd take their money, do as they tell her, & tell the rest of us she told them to go to hell

[robertpaulsen]

228. "I told the military-industrial complex thanks, but no thanks..."

:rofl:

[pollo poco]

235. I VOTE OPTION THREE AS WELL nt

[Lorien]

145. The former is the more probable of the two

the majority of Dems and quite a few repugs now think the Patriot Act was an awful idea.

[truth2power]

144. New boss. Same as the old boss....

I don't expect anything of any consequence, that doesn't benefit the PTB, from Obama.

When my co-worker was all excited about Obama along about Jan.'08 or so, I said, "Obama makes all-purpose speeches," I was more right than I could have imagined.

[wpelb]

177. What do you mean by "right"?

"Right" as in "correct," or "right" as in "conservative"?

[truth2power]

238. right, as in correct. eom

[LWolf]

162. Why?

Because Obama is a center-right/corporatist/centrist/3rd way/"new" dem who is not the "liberal" he's been portrayed as.

Which was clear to see from the beginning, for those paying attention and not caught up in eloquent speeches, or the euphoria of ambiguous things like "hope," and "change" that could allow one's own hopes for change to be projected on to.

[LWolf]

163. dupe

[bertman]

166. I'm going with LWolf on this one. After the FISA vote and his rhetoric about Chavez,

I knew the road would be rocky. Still, he's a far sight better than McAnus and Failin.

[emmadoggy]

202. Well said, LWolf.

I completely agree.

[swilton]

224. I think we also were caught up in more than his speaches

I think that his being an African American played into our believing that he represented change. Here was this symbol of America's departure from its racist legacy. And this symbol just happened to be good looking, eloquent as well as intelligent. I mean after 8 years of Bush II, the country was hungry for someone who could walk and chew gum at the same time. We were so hungry that we ignored a lot of the signs - like a lot of his speaches were eloquent but at the same time they lacked specificity and substance.

As Naomi Klein noted so recently and in an article on this page, 'Yes We Can' was a marketing ploy. We were eager consumers who bought what he was selling.

[LWolf]

226. Yes. That, too. nt

[backtomn]

186. Politician

Please see the definition.

[tom_paine]

2. Ah, there's some change I can believe in!

:rofl: :puke:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. All this change is making me dizzy! nt

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Along With The Continuation of Warrantless Wiretapping

The Constitution is for suckers, I guess. The suckers who've had all their tax money given to the bankers.

Yay team!

[liberalmike27]

83. Well, In A way I can't blame him

If I were him, with all these right-wing assassination threats, with idiots going on major cable networks, and almost asking for some nut to go out and shoot him down, as if he were a legal gynocologist who provides abortions, I would be using all the power of the surveillance to seek out those who would perpetrate domestic terrorism, seek out the KKK meetings, and surveil those types of organizations.

Hell, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

But seriously, I'd just as soon get back to old-style, American laws in so many ways, as Bush wasn't the first to start warping laws out of shape, trying children as adults, twisting drug laws to punish people twice by taking their homes, and sell-busts, which are entrapment.

One of my favorite violations is regular check-points here in Mobile, Alabama. I feel like I'm in Eastern Block Soviet Union sometimes. And it isn't after a crime has been committed, as was the original one, but all the time, sweeps for filters.

I noticed on Showtimes' Dexter the other night, they were doing DNA sweeps. I couldn't help but wonder if that had been done already, roadblocking people, and taking DNA swabs. Brave New World, and don't believe these measures were only for foreign terrorists. They were intentioned for spying on politcal opponents, and domestic drug crimes also.

[No Elephants]

107. You don't do away with the Constitution because you are afraid to be assassinated.

If assassination concerns you so much, drop out of the race for President, when the threats started, or resign now. Don't shred the Constitution.

So, yeah, I feel bad beyond belief about the assassination threats. but they do not justify taking away our Constitutional rights.

[ChiciB1]

173. Just To Add To Your Assessment... Obama Of ALL Candidates SHOULD HAVE

and MOST PROBABLY did know what he was getting into! The FIRST BLACK President was reason enough to raise red flags, but add to that all the OTHER rhetoric surrounding him... a la, muslim, not being an American citizen, his father's heritage and whatever "other" monikers THEY (the crazies out there) would try to use to define him!

I CAN'T buy the theory that THE PATRIOT ACT was part of his decision to align himself with THE IDIOT and his entourage of War Criminals! Why he's making this decision is something we may never know, but I do KNOW one thing for sure... HE IS NOT anywhere NEAR being a LIBERAL!! As time goes by, if one wishes to refer to him as a Progressive, I'm now more inclined to think of him as being much more as a kind of "blue dog" leaning Progressive.

I do realize that will raise the ire of many here at DU, but there are many here who have been coming to this conclusion more and more from posts I'm reading. I do admit that even though I find having elected the first black President is an historic event, he was never my first or second or third choice. However, that does not mean I don't wish that he will succeed, far better than McCain/Palin! But with McCain I KNEW what we would be getting and THAT thought was much too disastrous!

Going further, even IF most president's lose representatives of their own party in "off" years, I fear losing in 2010 will be even more perilous because we may be seeing MORE DCC or DINO Democrats getting elected, IF they actually get elected! Call the Repukes CRAZY, but Repukes do have a way of sticking together regardless of ANY issue OR cause! And to say that Repukes have nothing to say but NO, more and more people have switched to Independent according to many research polls. Not that polls are indicative of everything, but so many of them have been correct in the past. I myself do KNOW people who have decided this. They would probably vote for a Democrat, but IF there was a REAL viable Independent who could win, I'm sure that's where their vote would go. I think I even saw some commentary on how fast the Independents are growing. I would prefer a more Liberal type, but Bernie Sanders is one person I would most certainly prefer. He was once referred to as a Socialist, which is also fine with me.

Obama, laid back or not does not seem to be taking the Bull By The Horns and perhaps his "own" Democrats see the writing on the wall! Time will tell, but for now I can't help but feel very skeptical!

JMHO!

[theHandpuppet]

113. A few words from an old patriot

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

[pleah]

182. +1

[MissDeeds]

206. +1

[Duval]

159. This is also my thinking. I believe

keeping those powers is helping keep him alive! Although I am disappointed that the changes haven't happened according to MY time table, I'm not totally without hope that they will be changed someday...at least, not without hope yet!:-)

[sabrina 1]

207. The Constitution was not written to protect

just one person. And I really hope that Obama is not allowing the continued destruction of the Constitution out of fear for his own personal safety and at the expense of this democracy. To say that is to say that he is not only a coward, but has forgotten the oath he took when he was sworn in.

I would not assign such a motive to him unless there is some proof of it. It is not a very flattering portrayal of any president, let alone one who raised the hopes of millions that the rule of law would be restored.

In case anyone forgets, George Bush's approval numbers plummeted after the revelation that ordinary Americans were being spied on by their government. No other single revelation that I can recall, caused his disapproval ratings to be so high, and he never recovered. The only other event that came close, was the revelation that his administration was handing over US border security to his friends in Dubai. That split his base airc.

Obama apparently is not listening to the American people regarding this issue. He didn't listen when he voted for the Corporation-Saving Fisa Bill either. That vote, along with a few other issues, weakened support for him in the primaries. If the country had not just been through the destructive eight years of George Bush, and there had been a reasonable choice, it's likely that these revelations about him, his admiration for Ronald Reagan eg, his Fisa vote, his constant harping on religion, would have lost him the election.

The American people care a lot about their Constitutional rights as the polls showed in the wake of the revelations of spying on them. That was a betrayal of the people. But, as many said back then, it would take a very courageous president to undo the harm done by Bush to the rights of the American people.

[JDPriestly]

172. If you think that they are wiretapping the right-wing extremists, think again.

Who do they wiretap? The Quakers, the defense attorneys, etc. They do not go after the right wing. They are the right wing.

[humbled_opinion]

214. Oh thats rich...

Congress, White House completely controlled by Democrats and in super majority, and the Right Wingers are still in charge thats your contention?

Thats the weakest argument around. It is the same argument that some are trying to use on the Healthcare debate. Oh we can't get single payer, "America doesn't want it"... Thats B.S.

Give me a break, Obama is just not who many of us thought he was and to think he had such limitless potential.

Why even bother anymore even our strongest leaders are anti-progressives.

It also makes me look at Bush in a different light. Even if America didnt' want his war or his response to 911 in general he stood by it, he took the hit in the polls but he persisted because in his MIND it was the best thing for the country.

I am not agreeing with him or saying he was right I am using the anaolgy to healthcare.

OBAMA should have been just as willing to stake his entire presidency on Single Payer as Bush was on his response to 911.

[roguevalley]

89. sucks to be us. Well, at least I can remember the America that used

to exist. I feel sorry for younger people.

[Techn0Girl]

108. Screw that - I feel sorry for us!

America DID use to be different - and not that long ago.

In the 80's and early 90's you could work a 40 hour week and still have enough time and money left to go to college.

In the 80's and 90's you could afford to travel to the next state and look for work if you wanted to. Gas was a buck a gallon or so. Hey it was a buck fifty until 99 really - then it began to shoot way up.

In the 80 and 90's you could actually earn interest in a bank or a bond and your savings weren't taken up by bogus fees.

Most jobs came with health care.
Most jobs came with vacation time
Darn near everyone had sick time.
Apartments cost maybe 20% of your income - not 40% like now
Even a modest income guaranteed you enough money for healthy food to eat.


And CEOs and other execs did not make NEARLY what they do now.

Oh - it's changed all right.

[DrDan]

120. retirement - most jobs used to come with retirement

now those dollars must cover CEO incentive packages - including their massive "exit" funding

[bertman]

167. SOME jobs used to come with retirement. Not MOST jobs. Nostalgia is a wonderful

thing but it can't change the reality.

[AlbertCat]

225. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing

Yes I remember getting beat up for having long hair being a queer and HAVING to be in the closet. I remember the draft. I remember Watergate and the failed ERA.


Drugs were more fun then though!

[Daphne08]

122. I remember as well, and I often ask myself, "Was 2001 really

just a few years ago? How did America change so much -- and so quickly?"

[dgibby]

150. No, we've been going downhill since Nixon and Reagan.

We just started picking up speed in '01, and things that used to be covert are now blatantly "in your face". They no longer try to hide their utter disdain for the citizens now.

[pundaint]

211. How often have you voted to return your congressmen to office during that time.

We must establish who is to be served again.

[whathehell]

118. I remember it too...Although it seems to slip further and

further away into memory...I hate that.

[RedRubberBall]

4. Honestly , at this point is anyone surprised?

Been too much lip service and little action in the last 10 months

[MannyGoldstein]

7. I Hope You're Wearing Asbestos...

Unless the pom-pom brigade is off tonight, you may get some choice responses...

:popcorn:

[JohnnyLib2]

11. Yup.

[Beacool]

136. Is that their official name?

I call them the fan club.........

:D

[RedRubberBall]

9. More

Obama To Announce Increase Of US Troops For Afghanistan On December 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7076504

[williesgirl]

6. This is bullshit - this is NOT what we voted for. I'm fed up.

[emilyg]

39. You ain't seen nuttin' yet.

Just wait.

[Mojambo]

8. This was why it was so devastating when these powers were granted.

Presidents don't give these kinds of powers up. Ever.

No matter how noble they seem when scrounging for votes.

[winyanstaz]

57. exactly....it was treason then too......

It is unconstitutional..and they damned well know it.

[No Elephants]

99. +1

[Autonomy]

74. That's the crux of the issue

It's been said that it is the role of the chief executive to attempt to expand his powers, and the role of the legislature and judiciary to stop him. Like our justice system, it is designed as an adversarial system. The president is given tasks and goals to accomplish, and it is in his interest to make it as easy as possible to accomplish those things. Congress needs to do its part, and perhaps a realistic medium can be found.

[Mojambo]

76. Excellent take. n/t

[No Elephants]

97. No. Not if you've read the Constitution. Saying usurping power from the people

with things like the Patriot Act is the role of a President (or Congress) is fucking bizarre and a damnable lie.

Don't fall for it.

[No Elephants]

96. Whoever said that was a liar. It is NOT the role of a President to expand his power. The role of a

President is to govern this nation as the Constitution intended. That is what he swears to do before he takes office.

The role of the legislature is to make laws regarding the subjects entrusted to it by the Constitution. Its role is NOT to check the President. In cases like this, it should simply ignore his wishes when it does legislate. though.

Rather than being the role of a President, usurping power from Congress and, more importantly, from the people of America, is a very unfortunate, sometimes despicable, tendency of SOME Presidents.

George Dummya Bush was one of the very worst offenders in this respect, with the Patriot Act, FISA, signing statements, etc. He trashed the Constitutional rights of the people; and I am very sorry to see Obama following Dummya's "lead."

When this unfortunate, sometimes despicable, tendency rears its ugly head, the Judiciary can do precious little about it, unless Congress or some special prosecutor, etc. takes him to court, which is very rare. Sometimes Congress can't do much about it either.

According to the Constitution, whose role is it to check unfortunate, sometimes despicable, tendencies of Presidents, then?

[Autonomy]

239. The president's role is not TO GOVERN

It is the government's role to govern, of which the president is but one part (of the federal government).

According to the Constitution, it is the role of the SCOTUS and Congress to check the president.

Congress and the SCOTUS did NOT do their jobs under GWB, but that should come as no surprise given Bush v Gore.

[No Elephants]

98. Some Presidents refuse to take power, even when it's pushed on them.

That's why we never had a King George Washington, but did have a King George Dummya Bush.

[humbled_opinion]

215. Interesting...

I see it a little different.

If Obama was as willing to fight for Healthcare Reform as George Bush was to fight senseless wars we would already have a Single Payer, Universal Healthcare plan based on current medicare rates, and the Richest 1 percent would have 58 percent tax rates to pay for it.

We are getting snookered. More meat going to the Grinder from what I hear...

When all is said and done this is going to make Obama much worse then Bush.

[Laelth]

10. Vomit. n/t

:puke:

:dem:

-Laelth

[ProSense]

12. Is this a different vote from this one:

Liberal lawmakers defy Obama on Patriot Act

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – Defying the Obama administration, the House Judiciary Committee voted Thursday to remove from the USA Patriot Act a tool for tracking non-U.S. citizens in anti-terrorism investigations.

The committee, dominated by Democratic liberals, also voted to amend the anti-terrorism law to curb the government's surveillance and seizure powers.

The bill went to the full House on a 16-10 vote along party lines, with Republicans casting all the votes in opposition. GOP lawmakers said the legislation would hinder law enforcement and intelligence agencies in fighting terrorism.

The legislation would allow the Patriot Act's never-used "lone wolf" section to expire at the end of the year. The provision permits the government to spy on non-Americans even when they're not linked to a recognized terrorist group.

more

Sounds like the liberal Democrats actually won.

[Snazzy]

18. Senate not House n/t

[ProSense]

21. The Senate Judiciary Committee voted on this on Oct 8

and there has been no other vote so it was confusing. There is still time to amend it.

[Snazzy]

30. Yeah I think this is still rolling along in both, 2 versions

But if I google one more thing today I may die or maybe go blind. But there is a sunset on some of this stuff at the end of the year, so this must be on the calendar for soon.



Edit--full chart of dif's on Oct 31:

http://www.cdt.org/files/pdfs/Patriot%20Chart%20Comparing%20Marked%20Up%20House%20&%20Senate%20Judiciary%20bills%20to%20current%20law.pdf

(Google didn't kill me, but thomas.gov surely will.)

[vaberella]

135. Can you make this an independent post and systematically debunk the OPs post.

Check out Boppers post on this thread too.

[Kermitt Gribble]

165. How would that post 'debunk' the OP? n/t

[virgogal]

13. HOPE. CHANGE. BULLSHIT!!!!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. what you said. Really concisely.

[abelenkpe]

32. +1

I am really really disappointed. Even more so for the rumored Afghanistan troop increase.
:(

[howmad1]

37. Man, if I were a used car dealer;

I'd offer Obama a sales job immediately after he loses his ass in 2012. What a smooth talker. All talk and sure as shit, crappy action. Change, my ass! What a phony.

[tan guera]

Obama's

an empty suit.  It was obvious from the very beginning.

[No Elephants]

92. He's not an empty suit by any means. That was a Republican meme, in retaliation for

Romney's getting called an empty suit so many times. Obama's suit filling is different from what many of us "hoped," though.

[liquid diamond]

82. Maybe we can elect your little gnome god Kucinich instead?

Yeah, the majority of America will elect a liberal idealist. Back to fantasy land you go.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

101. This is not about liberal v. conservative. It's about whether a President of any Party

is respecting the Constitution. If you are willing to give up your Constitutional rights without comment, that's your business.

[winyanstaz]

190. Well said..thank you

Short and to the point!

[winyanstaz]

184. Well maybe after they wake up enough from all the back stabbing

and royal screwings they will vote for a man of principle and a solid voting for the people record over a bought and paid for corporation shill.. just maybe......

[FiveGoodMen]

196. Bye bye.

[12string]

216. Electing Kucinich

You are right.America won't elect Kucinich.That's a shame as we would be better off if we did.

[liberation]

222. LOL, that does not sound desperate at all....

... the angry pompom squad is getting sloppy with the ad hominems lately.

[emilyg]

41. +2

[Zhade]

50. clinton wouldn't have been better. She's a liar too.

Tuzla anyone?

[LaPera]

86. McCain....we as always were left with no choice....

Nader doesn't seem like such a difficult choice now.......though it was always Kucinich for me......

[Name removed]

95. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

103. Kucinich was a candidate. We chose Obama.

[RoccoR5955]

170. Some of us would have rather had Kucinich though.

Now it shows through. Obama is another right-wing Democrat. There are only two or three members of congress who I would describe as Left. Kucinich is one of them.

[Missy Vixen]

75. +3

[dana_b]

71. yep

you got that right.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. Say, Mr. Obama, what's this sticking out of my back? Another KNIFE? thanks

for nothing. Certainly not change.

[jgraz]

16. Key word here: quietly

The only time this guy takes a public stand is when he's asking for votes for himself or money for his Wall Street buddies.

[Iowa]

54. Yep.

[pauldp]

17. F*cking sad.

And we have a fucking Iran Contra insider heading up the Department of Defense and a Goldman Sachs insider heading up the Treasury.

[tekisui]

19. It's Obama's power now, why would he want to give it up?

That is the danger of strengthening the Executive. It is very hard to later weaken it. Good or bad, their guy or ours. In a political battle (which it always will be) you can't expect one to give up power willingly.

[Zhade]

51. Many, myself included, argued against those powers for this very reason.

We were right.

Again.

[No Elephants]

102. His oath to uphold the Constitution? Please see Reply ##s 97 and 99.

Then again, beteen him and Roberts, even the oath got screwed up. Unreal.

Two alleged Constitutional law experts, both too arrogant to have the words with them like their predecessors had, and neither of whom managed to get three lines right.

The only real point of the entire day was to take that oath, and we got Rick Warren, followed by plenty of theater, but the Constitution got screwed up. Talk about symbolism.

[glitch]

149. Honor, integrity, principle (as a Constitutional Scholar if nothing else) nt

[QC]

20. How very, very hopeful and changealicious! n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

27. It is truly hopespecstacular! nt

[RufusTFirefly]

31. But Obama's got electrolytes!

That's what America craves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1fKzw05Q5A

[chimpymustgo]

188. I like to call it...changiness.

[liberation]

227. LOL "changealicious"

I think Obama's campaign may have already copyrighted "change" and "hope" and lord knows the last thing we can afford in this wonderful economy is being hit with a copyright infringement suit.

I'll go with "hopeness" a la Colbert's "truthiness"

[tilsammans]

23. aw, no

say it ain't so.

:puke:

[CHIMO]

24. USA PATRIOT Act

The USA PATRIOT Act, commonly known as the "Patriot Act", is a statute enacted by the United States Government that President George W. Bush signed into law on October 26, 2001. The contrived acronym stands for Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (Public Law Pub.L. 107-56).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

[scytherius]

25. We got Bush-lite

I have completely withdrawn from politics. no more donations, no more votes. I quite frankly don't care who runs this POS nation anymore. It really makes NO difference. the only thing that will change this hell-hole called America is if the aliens land or a comet hits.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. you got that right.

and those fucking apologists here who refuse to face facts, well, I suspect that we will hear from them a year or two from now, screaming why we didn't warn them.

I have this tune, "It's too late" running through my head. And it fits what is happening to our country. The Obama Admin sold us out with Big Pharma, and that just got them warmed up. it is too late.

[OnyxCollie]

42. But he signed the Lily Leadbetter Act!

Obama's GREAT! Rah! Rah! Rah!

Gooooooooooo team!

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Why Syzygy]

67. The worst Democratic President ever. I think you're onto something there. nt

[irislake]

69. Way past time to get a third party but

I think it would really take off.

[dgibby]

153. I'd love to see Bernie, Dennis, Grayson, Whitehouse, Sherrod Brown,

Sestak (sp?) et al, form a new Progressive Democratic Socialist Party. I'd be there in a heartbeat!

[WVRICK13]

209. How About A Fourth Party?

The Democrats need another party to host the traditional Democrat candidates and the Republicans need another party to host the traditional Republicans. Both parties have been stolen by RW bullshit. The only difference between the two is a D or an R beside their names.

[Lorien]

146. I'm hoping that a viable Liberal third party takes shape before 2012

The Right can have their Teabagger Party and we could have something that resembles the traditional Democratic party-before the corporations took over completely. The time is right to join the rest of the civilized world with additional options.

[Why Syzygy]

66. It's their game!

"Politics" is the scam they run on us, I've been thinking. There have to be other ways. I gave up cable news almost a year ago. I'm not watching their circus. I have my money in a local bank. We've got to do local. All we can do is not cooperate in the scam.

[dgibby]

152. I feel pretty much the same as you do, with one exception:

I will fight to the bitter end to keep the Theocrats from taking over.

[Techn0Girl]

29. Reason's Why I voted for Obama ...

#1.End The War - He said he would. So far we're just moving it over to Afghanistan.

#2 Jobs and the Economy - He said he'd fix it. He said he'd take a scalpel to the budget. So far he allowed several trillion to go to banks and oh yeah, I got an extra $25 a week on my unemployment.

#3. Health Care - So far no public option. No affordable health care plan that I've seen so far. He allowed Democrats to make it mandatory to be a client of the private Health care Industry. Big Pharma gets to continue to charge high prices. And no matter what happens - it's not happening for several more years . At least.

#4. GLBT and Woman's right issues. Don't ask, don't tell? Maybe next year. Abortion ? Nope.

Would things be worse under McCain/Palin? I have no doubt they'd be much worse. With Obama I am certainly getting screwed over somewhat less.

Well to ell with that. I won't be voting or campaigning next year if these things he promised aren't met. Let the Right wing win if there are truly no Progressives out there.

Me? I'll be in Canada, in France, or Australia.
Somewhere civilized.

[Better Believe It]

33. Would things be worse under McCain/Palin? Probalby, but with one big difference

The labor, civil rights, anti-war, women's rights, GLBT and other organizations would be building the mass movement in the streets that would make the "tea party" demos seem like little calm affairs that hardly attract any attention.

We just can't do that with Democrats in charge. It would look bad and would be seen as trying to apply pressure from the left on the Obama administration. Can't have that!

[Subdivisions]

35. I'm really tired of seeing Obama's back-peddling deflected by

"Would things be worse under McCain/Palin?"

Such a response is irrelevant to the promises WE WERE MADE and on which I based my vote!

[Nay]

121. One more difference--at least Pub policies would be pushed by Pubs, not

Dems. The fact that a Democratic president is doing this makes us look like idiots. I mean, at least we realize he shouldn't be doing these Pub things, and he may not get re-elected because of them, but damn, Dems aren't SUPPOSED to act like Pubs when they get into office. If they do, there should be hell to pay. And I hope there will be.

As for me, I also have started to just not give a damn what they do. If there is no one principled and brave enough to stand up to these oligarchs, then the fight is already over and we are just along for the ride. All we can do is stop spending money on their junk -- that seems to be the only thing that catches their attention. They sure didn't give a shit when I and 500,000 other people demonstrated against the Iraq war.

[bvar22]

158. I agree.

I don't believe this nation would ever allow The Republicans to pass a "Healthcare" Bill that forces everybody to BUY Health Insurance from the For Profit Corporations.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Subdivisions]

34. 'You can take that to the bank!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LsSppYxSHk

[zoff]

46. Australia sounds nice.

Well developed railway system. No mountain top blasting. People walking barefoot. Crocodile Dundee.

[dgibby]

156. Yes, it does, except for that "little" drought problem they're having.

Evidently, Australia is one of the "canaries in the coalmine" when it comes to climate change.

[katandmoon]

60. ICAM.

[ElboRuum]

181. ICAM? Not Knowing.

Seriously, what does ICAM stand for? I have a feeling I'm going to facepalming at the obvious I've missed.

[No Elephants]

104. I feel your pain, but he always said Iraq was the wrong war and Afghanistan was the right one.

I remember that distinctly because it was one of the things about him that gave me pause. Still, I supported him starting in November 2007, doing and donating far more than I could comfortably do. I think I even went over the legal limit for an individual, but I thought it was worth the risk to avoid McCain Palin. So, I gave more every time McCain's numbers went up.

I could kick myself around the block, now. Not that I would have preferred McCain Palin. But, I never would have contributed a dime if I had known, let alone risked a fine or jail or whatever happens when you donate more than the law (and your budget) allows you to donate.

At this point, all my hopes rest on Sotomayor's being more liberal than her Vita indicates. If she turns out to be just another anti-choice Catholic SCOTUS Justice, I just don't know what I will do.

[Lorien]

147. Canada, France,... New Zealand also sounds nice

I just need to make enough money to move!

[Better Believe It]

36. So what do you want? This is the change we can believe in.

[proReality]

47. We can believe it's falling in value. n/t

[jillan]

38. I have never heard of this website - how reputable is it? Please tell me that

that the person who wrote this is an idiot and is making this up, because I so badly do not want to believe this is true.

:banghead:

[tan guera]

43. IPS

is highly reputable. Read it.

[Sapphocrat]

40. *cough*

*cough*toldemso*cough*

[theHandpuppet]

49. Uh yep

Sure did!

[lyonspotter]

44. How long will it take before...

...we start to take Alex Jones a little more seriously that the Left-Right paradigm is an illusion to get US citizens to quarrel with one another while the Federal Reserve and the powers that be continue to usher in a world government? Yeah, I know, it's all conspiracy theory.

[winyanstaz]

56. He is aware that we have been sold out.....by both sides...

We have been played.

[lyonspotter]

63. Yep...he's been saying

it for about 10 years now, and he's finally getting recognized for the dead-on calls he's been making all this time.

[tblue]

77. I don't know Alex Jones, but I think he's hit the nail on the head.

Howard Zinn said roughly the same thing about our founding fathers. The whole effing idea of this country has never been what we were told it is. "Alll men are created equal"? I font think so. Our gov't was slways about keeping the rich and powerful rich and powerful, with some crumbs sprinkled on the middle class to keep us quiet.

I'll look up Alex Jones. Thanks for the tip.

[No Elephants]

106. The Declaration of Independence was never part of our government.

It creates nothing legally binding.

The Constitution does not say that all men are created equal (let alone all people).

[dotymed]

129. To maintain the status-quo

it's right there in the pre-amble. But, while the forefathers
did want to keep the wealthy unscathed, they probably never
imagined the multi-nationals. The wording is also in the
constitution to deal with the usurpation of power that has
occurred. I want to leave this country. I can see no hope
here.

[tkmorris]

79. Alex Jones recognizes the powers that be (all of them) are full of it

He is however completely at sea much of the time when it comes to figuring out what is actually going on.

[winyanstaz]

237. Is that right? Please tell us all one time he was wrong?

As far as I know at this time...he has been right on all counts. I shall look for your post with interest.

[jennied]

45. Unless he does something amazing - I'm definitely not voting for him next term.

[Why Syzygy]

70. As for me,

I am quietly making friends with right wingers (GASP!). Yeah. The paradigm is a ploy. We need to be united against the real thieves in the house.

[ElboRuum]

48. Where the hell do I live, anyway?

Oh, yeah. Here.

[earth mom]

52. No doubt * & Cheney are loving this. nt

[Piewhacket]

55. All this CHANGE is making me dizzy! :sarcasm:

[Postman]

58. It's okay to shred the Constitution when "our guy" does it..

:sarcasm:

[katandmoon]

59. What a Trojan horse Obama has turned out to be. Utter fail.

[Guilded Lilly]

62. Disappointed...

and feeling more than a little betrayed.

[Golden Raisin]

61. Ugh! Plenty of Audacity

(the wrong kind) and now I've just about given up Hope. The day the Patriot Act was conceived and passed was one of the darkest days in the History of this Republic.

[HipChick]

65. I posted about this back in September...22 times in a year is not much of a usage actually

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32863188/ns/politics-white_house/

[Number23]

199. So, if this was first reported on over TWO MONTHS ago, I guess the "quietly" part of the headline

is a bit misleading, huh??

Money quote from the article you posted:

"Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of activities protected by the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment such as peaceful protests or religious assembly.

"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."

Even the ACLU doesn't think of this as "Bush-lite" as so many on DU seem to. I'm not happy with ANY extension or expansion of the Patriot Act, but any "Democratic" web site brimming with Freeper vernacular i.e. calling Obama a "lying con man" is full of idiots as far as I'm concerned.

[lyonspotter]

68. It should be becoming more clear to people that...

...both parties currently work for the banks and corporate entities (including the health industry). After Bush and now this current administration, that dismal fact should be crystallizing...

Now, to strategise how to go about taking back our party in order that it serves its base, and not the other way around...

[cowcommander]

72. There might still be some hope to curb the bullshit

H.R. 3845, The USA PATRIOT Amendments Act of 2009

Congressmen Conyers, Nadler and Scott have introduced the USA PATRIOT Amendments Act of 2009, which reforms a number of Patriot Act provisions.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/breakdown-hr-3845-usa-patriot-amendments-act-2009

[LibDemAlways]

73. Obama's rapidly creating a big problem for himself. While the R's

scream that he's a "socialist," many D's on the left feel he has betrayed core Democratic values. He's been wasting too much time worrying about alienating R's who wouldn't vote for him if his was the only name on the ballot. Meantime, he's ignoring the base and genuflecting at the altar of corrupt bankers and insurance companies. Reality check:When you lose your supporters, you lose elections.

[dgibby]

80. I wish with all my heart that he was a socialist.

Maybe this country would have a chance. As it stands now, I think we're on our way out. I'm beginning to think that Russian professor was right when he predicted the US would break up into several small countries. Sorta makes sense, considering how divided we've become.

[ooglymoogly]

78. The best president ever

at talking the talk.

[AllyCat]

81. WTF???? Where is the candidate I voted for?

[boppers]

84. NSL's, Material Support, and Border taps....

Looks like the same stuff we've had since the 50's to me, updated for modern technology.

Most people didn't actually know about it then, though, as it was much more clandestine.

*shrug*, I just can''t be outraged about stuff used and approved for the last 50 years, let alone blame Obama for it.

[No Elephants]

109. Bullshit.

[boppers]

111. http://tinyurl.com/cybgft

http://tinyurl.com/cybgft

This is old news.

[No Elephants]

114. If you can't tell the difference between 1950's illegal Spy v. Spy shat

and the Patriot Act, you are in trouble.

Anyone can edit wiki, so I never rely on it for anything controversial.. But, that is beside the point,. If you even read
the wiki to which you linked me, reliable or not, you should get that the wiki does not support your claims.

[boppers]

116. I've been working on improving that specific wiki for years.

If you don't know what a wiki is, well, I can't help you, if you don't understand the topic.

Inspecting email/mail to others is/was legal.
Emergency inspection of information is/was legal.
Government requests of data is/was legal.

[patrick t. cakes]

174. whats scary is they're not evan trying to hide it

anymore. we should worry about that.

they dont fear the people anymore.

[vaberella]

133. Boppers can you make this an independent thread?!

Because people are going on a hate fest and added to that are using this as a platform to spew Anti-Obama hate.


Can you link back to this post to explain it's a response post to clarify the article---which is being misrepresented by the OP.

[boppers]

192. Done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7080878 started under GD.

[TexasObserver]

85. Recommend ... for change we can bereave in.

[No Elephants]

117. Best. Line. About .Obamadmin. Ever.

I am going to um, borrow, it. It would fit so many threads here. But, I'll give you credit.

[TexasObserver]

183. Please use it!

I've been trying it out, and it's well received by others who similarly backed him strongly, and now wonders where did that guy go?

[dysfunctional press]

87. hey, obama-maniacs...is he playing chess or chinese checkers on this one...?

i can never tell anymore.

[No Elephants]

110. Of course he is. See, it's like this. He knew if he did this quietly, someone would leak it to the

media. Then, the public would get mad and start contacting their local media and their Congress critters. Then, there's be an uprising. And the entire Patriot Act would finally get repealed.

That's how he does everything. Prosecuting Bush, ending abuses by the CIA at Bagram and other foreign prisons, ending DADT and DOMA, and so on.

Since January, every day at the White House has been opposite day.

He's only been in office for under a year. Give him a chance. Sooner or later, all this stuff will turn out as we'd love it to turn out. Of course, by then, statutes of limitation will have expired, hundreds more military careers and lives will have been ruined, and so on, but it all will have been worth it.

[chimpymustgo]

189. "Since January, every day at the White House has been opposite day."

[RedCloud]

88. Hep. Hep. I'm losing my mind. This President has sho gone crazy.

I feel like we are watching a three stooges movies where we are the porters on that train and the republican lion is allowed to claw at our butts while we scream for "hep". And there is the Obama nation sipping some martini and trying to play it cool.

We were played. A few conservative billionaires decide to get their buses rolling with fake protests and cross state lines with intent to disrupt (See Chicago 7 for what that means!) and the Obama government does nothing to respond to the disruptions.

Meanwhile after we were asked to donate for Mr. O to stop all lobbying, now I get asked to donate on every single freaking thing. It's like a donation lobby versus corporate lobbyists on everything with one key difference. We don't get the chance to pass our "lobbying" donations on to the consumers as they do.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

93. All those "Present" votes (130) in the Illinois Senate...

were a clear indication that Barack Obama was not committed to issues, and that he was adept at political maneuvering. Does anyone still believe he would have voted against the Iraq war if he'd been in the US Senate? I always felt a disconnect between his words and his actions (voting record).

[democracy1st]

100. he would have voted for that war!

[uppityperson]

105. Is this a legitimate news source? nt

[No Elephants]

112. Seems so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_Press_Service

http://www.ips.org/institutional/get-to-know-us-2/our-history/

and

http://www.ips.org/institutional/get-to-know-us-2/what-people-say/

Browse the website.

[Algorem]

119. Obama just mostly likes looking at himself in the mirror most of all.

[fasttense]

123. I did some research on IPS and they seems very accomplished and reliable.

I was hoping they weren't.

I guess I never knew that when President Obama was talking about change, he meant he would change.

That's change you hardly notice.

[MetaTrope]

126. Just a placeholder for the next Republican president

Maybe I should go into leatherworking. There's going to be a big demand for jackboots in a couple of years.

[dotymed]

127. Remember when

Eva Morales, asked him, "Are you OK?" Maybe it was
Chavez.  They knew that this was not the same man that was
candidate Obama. President Obama, if you still exist, we will
have your back...just return to the man we believed in.

[Hubert Flottz]

124. Big brother don't give up his toys once he gets them...

"Change" you can't count on?

[Vidar]

125. K&R

[Capt. America]

128. Ahhhh yes. Change I can believe in.

[Nihil]

130. Good job that this was moved from LBN to GD:RahRah ...

... or more people might notice and start to get concerned ...

:puke:

[kpete]

151. yep!

I am beginning to take it personally, kpete

[BonnieJW]

131. I realize I'm asking for it, but

with so many idiots out there clamoring for Obama's death, with fools showing up at Obama events with GUNS, I'm thinking it might be a good idea for the FBI to have the ability to selectively access the communications of certain individuals.

[WCGreen]

132. Good point....

But these provisions in the PA are against everything I was taught to believe about the US...

This kind of crap is what motivates the Right Wing to propagate the culture of fear they seem to thrive upon.

[vaberella]

134. People don't care about that. Obama signed up for the job after all.

Sometimes people on this board make me sick----this thread is a perfect hate fest.

[firedupdem]

137. Yeah it is, but it's the same people that hate him for breathing...

No reasoning with them.

[waiting for hope]

delete - dupe

[waiting for hope]

176. Did you approve of the Patriot Act when

Bush did it? Seems like there are a few that will give Obama a pass on anything just because he is a democrat - seems if more republicans spoke out against Bush, we may not have this mess to begin with.

[cowcommander]

138. Is the Secret Service's $1 billion budget not enough?

And do you realize how the Patriot Act can be used when an even MORE right-wing president than Bush takes power?!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

197. And they could have done that LEGALLY, with few problems ---

before the Patriort Act. BushCo specifically asked for powers that could remain hidden from those who would hold them accountable. They always had the power to tap a person in an emergency then go before a court to have that wiretap made legal any ol' time they pleased. What BushCO wanted -- and got -- was the power to tap without being held responsible each time to the legal system.

And it appears Mr. Obama may be wanting that same power. :mad:

[Politicub]

139. Fuck - I was hoping Pres. Obama wouldn't back it and the Patriot Act would quiety sunset over time

Oh well, hoping for too much, I guess. It's only terror that springs eternal.

I'm certain congress will rally together to renew and likely strengthen the Patriot Act to continue chipping away at civil liberties. It makes me ill that both parties will link arm and arm over crap legislation but whine and squeal over health care reform.

When it comes to fucking over the American people, the congress will fall over themselves to unite to expediently flog us as quickly possible. It's like they get a sadistic pleasure from it, drunk with their own power to screw with us.

[peacetalksforall]

140. The Patriot Act is all about tracing and feeding the database. In the end it is going to be

used against us. We are the enemy. People who cling to old senses of justice. People who believed in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights and all the civil rights' dditions.

We are the enemy.

And we continue to teach our little kids the Pledge and all of the above.

And we continue to get inside the head, heart, and womb of women and assign ownership of the three parts of a woman to the government.

Then we save the fetus to make soldiers and ship away the other jobs so that there is little choice.

Then we finish the job of making the U.S. a third world country.

With us being the expendables for total ownership of war for the purpose of full control and limited ownership by our owners. Barons and their serfs.

We look back and it is all in plain view. We look forward and it is more of the same. It is a momentum and only a few see it. Right in front of our faces. And we think we have a voice.

Do we?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

141. I'm sorry, but did Congress suddenly lose the power to repeal laws?

I thought that was their job, not the President's.

[BumRushDaShow]

155. Yes they did per posters on DU, because the U.S. is run by a Dictator.

The trolls who don't understand how this tri-cameral government functions, have been out in force with their Limpballs-like version of an "Operation Chaos" on this board. In their world, the only functionary that exists is a now-hated President, who they insist can legislate, un-legislate, and otherwise ignore the other branches of this republic, all to satisfy their own fantastical impossible dreams. Such dreams that only they "can believe in".

This country is truly dumbed down.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

160. Here's the problem I have.

Let's say Obama decides not to use anything from the Patriot Act unilaterally.

Then we get hit with a terrorist attack. People would - somewhat legitimately - start asking why the President do everything in his power to prevent the attack. Given the post-attack climate, there'd be no really good defense for that, and then we're back to having Republicans in charge in the blink of an eye.

It's yet another no-win situation Obama has to deal with, handed to him by Republicans.

[waiting for hope]

178. He has the power to veto -

What part of this did you not get?

"But with the apparent approval of the Obama White House and a number of Republicans – and over the objections of liberal Senate Democrats including Russ Feingold of Wisconsin and Dick Durbin of Illinois – the Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to extend the three provisions with only minor changes."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

185. Give me a vote tally.

If it was by a margin that would've sustained a veto, I'll give you that one.

[BumRushDaShow]

191. What part of "apparent" did you miss in your emphasis?

When since has speculation about a supposed "approval" suddenly become fact? Where is the outrage against Patrick Leahy who chairs this committee? In fact, it seems that Leahy has disappeared into thin air.

It still boggles the mind how some people who post here have chosen to ignore the crux of the problem and it has to do with the composition of the Democratic party since 2006. And as the Democratic tent gets bigger and bigger (since the repukes have decided to go with "purity"), then there are going to be more and more and more ugly battles in order to come to a consensus.

[Vilis Veritas]

142. Everytime the curtain parts a little people freak...

They see the stage and the props and realize this is not real, just an act.

Wake up...the SHOW is never over.

[ClarkUSA]

143. Is this the Outrage of the Day? As a New Yorker, I'm OK w/it if the FISA court approves each request

[treestar]

154. The article is quite uninformative

Doesn't tell us much about the provisions and is full of opinion.

Not to mention that the House and Senate have versions. No source from the administration. Just "apparent" support and quotes from the President of the Bill of Rights Defence Committee about "secret" lobbying which was "undoubtedly a factor" in his opinion.

[fascisthunter]

148. he's lost my trust, vote and

he's lost votes from others in my family.

[Hawkowl]

210. Ditto

I will not vote for him again, and I will persuade many of my family and friends to do likewise. He could still turn it around, but that has not been his nature since he began in politics.

[fascisthunter]

218. wait till he runs again... then he'll go back to more progressive proposals

to sucker more voters.

[guyton]

157. He voted for FISA before the election!

This should be no surprise.

[Nikki Stone1]

168. +1

The new boss is same as the old boss.

[ElboRuum]

180. FISA != Powers Granted In The Patriot Act.

The PA basically gives the executive the right to bypass the FISA courts. This is where the issue is. FISA stands up to Constitutionality arguments, the PA (from what I know of it) fails in this regard. To see it continued is of exceptional bother.

[guyton]

204. telecom immunity

The point I was badly making was that the FISA bill he voted for gave the telecoms immunity for breaking the wiretap laws under W.

It was a very clear signal that his administration was not one that was going to stand up for either the constitution or the rule of law.

I was just about to give more money to his campaign when that vote happened ... instead my money went to the ACLU and the EFF.

Still glad he won ... but he's an "anybody but Bush" ... not the progressive we've been hoping for.

I'm still waiting for those torture indictments. It's past time. He's starting to own it.

[Turbineguy]

161. It will be ironic

if he can use the Patriot Act to round up wingnut domestic terrorists (Fox news and such). Powers granted to their hero Dubya by a repub congress. Lack of foresight has consequences.

As I recall, progressives were against it. Civil liberties and such.

[LWolf]

164. But now that Obama's in the WH,

we don't need civil liberties.

I'm adding this: :sarcasm:.


It should be redundant, but in the new world of DU, it's not. Just reading down this thread proves that.

[bertman]

169. It's NOT Obama's power. It's the hidden powers BEHIND the President who want these

laws in place.

Even if he wanted to, President Obama would not be able to rescind this fascist enabling without being "taken out" like JFK was.

There are forces so big and so dreadful behind our government that it is depressingly sad and maddening to even consider them. Read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" by Jim Douglass if you want to know who calls the shots.

Presidents, Senators, Congresspeople, high-level bureaucrats ALL know that they are pawns, but they are well-paid pawns who get to smooze with the elites and who get to stroke their enormous egos by being elected by us serfs.

I Recommend this thread because it does show that we are being lead down the primrose path ONCE AGAIN in the name of "security".

[Joey Liberal]

171. I feel let down by Obama nt

[firedupdem]

175. No discussion here.....

Just name calling and hate tossed at the (Democratic) President. :puke:

'discussion board'....puh leaze!

[Kitsune]

179. And Bush's third term continues apace.

I'm sure glad I voted for change. Mmmhmmm.

What a fucking crock this whole system is. Two sides of the same coin. >_<

[midnight]

193. panicky congress? More like an illiterate congress passed the patriot act!

K&R.

[RetroLounge]

194. No surprise...

Hopetacular Changiness!

:woohoo:

RL

[zulchzulu]

195. So why aren't we trashing Conyers and Leahy too?

In the article:

Leahy acknowledged that, in light of these incidents, "This is no time to weaken or undermine the tools that law enforcement relies on to protect America."

(snip)

Judiciary Chair John Conyers, a Michigan Democrat, said the goal of the new legislation was to "craft a law that preserves both our national security and our national values".

http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=2694

I disagreed with the so-called Patriot Act when it was passed in 2001, but it's frankly going to take time politically to get rid of it. Besides, we've had a secret government doing this shit since Oillie North was sucking on Raygun's Billy Bob.

I love all these fucking whiners trashing Obama over actually nothing that's happened yet. Obama hasn't signed shit... but if you read some of this skanky, buck-toothed garbage, you'd think Obama is spying on your goddamn butt pimples.

:puke:

[firedupdem]

203. skanky, buck-toothed garbage is exactly what this fucked up

thread is. Fucking hate fest for people that never supported the man in the first place. Fucking ridiculous.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

205. Maybe a little rough, maybe not

I feel like this is a lot of souls that feel betrayed and are letting out the emotions that may have been bottled up the last few months.

People sometimes, I know I do, yell when pissed, not really engage in conversation.

Heck look at my last post on this thread.

Ridiculous YES, hate fest well.....

Michigan rocks, we miss you. Red is taking over.

[humbled_opinion]

219. Oh Please...

I support him on every issue but when he is wrong, he is wrong.... Look at the analogy like this...

If Obama was as willing to fight for Healthcare, as Bush was to fight senseless war then by now Obama would have been signing a Single Payer, Universal healthcare bill, a climate change cap and trade bill and a Commitment to Green Fuels bill not to mention hate radio would have been removed form the airwaves.

Why does Obama bend right when he is the biggest proponent of telling folks that the Righty way last 8 Years is the Wrong way....

Its all senseless and he is going to get hit over the head with it by the Right who is now seducing the Independents and squishy middle.

[zulchzulu]

232. Bingo. Spot on. Bang the drum.

I appreciate the non-love for the so-called Patriot Act, as I am loath to have seen it happen, but if you look at the REAL story behind the legislation in these political times, utopian purity is something one can embrace far, far away from political reality.

The so-called Patriot Act will eventually be diminished, albeit it all has no real meaning anyway. We've had a secret government probing our shit since the 1950's.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

198. Sometime I hate being a Democrat, liberal, progressive...Whatever

Look at the wide variety of responses here. We are fighting each other, there is no communion.
Yes the sh*t that came down from the previous administration is not American.

Save his ass, save the country, save anyone being blown up. OK lets just rationalize the Patriot Act. Then it's OK., FU!
Hey it's just wrong!!!!!!!! Get it? WRONG! Ditch anyone that accepts it. Your man? Too bad. See Ya later, BYE!

We forget this is OUR COUNTRY. We should be the ones in charge. They work for us.

I Challenge you guys to not only read the Constitution, But believe in it, live it.

THERE IS NO "QUIETLY" anything when it comes to our rights. That was the last Administration.

Bitch here, but do something to protect our rights. Tell me what I can do, Not what to bitch and whine about.

Been one of my biggest campaigns since it was initiated, emails, faxes, letters, etc. Of course no avail!!

Please someone come up with a PLAN. HELP!!!

If I have to follow you with my pitchfork and hammer to take this country back, I'll be there.
Count me in.

[BobRossi]

200. We been punked.

Simple.

[Egnever]

212. Yea by this article

:lol:

:rofl:

[PopSixSquish]

217. Two Minutes of Research on this Article and Author Produced the Following

The article was not written by IPS but rather by William Fisher and orginally posted on Antiwar.com and linked to in the Latest News section of Bill of Rights Defense Committee website.

The person quoted in the article is Joe W. (Chip) Pitts III who is the President of the committee. He makes the following statement, " "the secret and hypocritical lobbying by the Obama administration against reforms – while publicly stating receptiveness to them.".

This vote occurred after the arrest of Najibullah Zazi a citizen of Afghanistan and a legal U.S. resident, was arrested in September as part of a group accused of planning to carry out acts of terrorism against the U.S. Zazi is said by the FBI to have attended courses and received instruction on weapons and explosives at an al Qaeda training camp in Pakistan. (Hmmm....I remember several DUers cheering the arrest and saying that this proves that President Obama can keep us safe without resorting to Bush-like tactics).

The author does not offer any other proof that the Obama administration or Obama himself backs the provisions.

This is an opinion article written by a gentleman who spent more than thirty years managing economic development programs for the US State Department and the US Agency for International Development. He has served in the Middle East, Latin America, Asia and Africa. Fisher started his career as a journalist with Florida newspapers and the Associated Press. He served in the international affairs area during the Kennedy Administration. (from his blog bio at HuffPo)

Here is his site - http://www.blogger.com/profile/08751070111937957444


http://original.antiwar.com/fisher/2009/11/23/obama-quietly-backs-patriot-act-provisions/

http://original.antiwar.com/fisher/2009/11/04/no-sunset-for-sweeping-patriot-act-powers/

Antiwar.com is funded by the Randolph Bourne Institute - Randolph Bourne was an avid isolantionist who opposed the US entry into WWI. Antiwar.com founders "The founders of Antiwar.com were active in the Libertarian Party during the 1970s; in 1983, we founded the Libertarian Republican Organizing Committee to work as a libertarian caucus within the GOP." (from their site)

"Our initial project was to fight against intervention in the Balkans under the Clinton presidency. We applied the same principles to Clinton's campaigns in Haiti and Kosovo and bombings of Sudan and Afghanistan." (again from their site).

For those of you not familiar with the Balkins and Kosovo, does the name Slobodan Milošević ring any bells? Clinton ordered the bombing to prevent the massacring ethnic-Albanians. The ethnic-Albanians recently put up that 11 foot statue of Bill Clinton.

I don't think these people are exactly objective observers when it comes to their reporting, but you decide...

[msallied]

221. Bumping so that people read this. The OP was a litmus test for DU morons.

[HipChick]

231. Good find..thanks! n/t

[zulchzulu]

233. Dude, you're making some DU wankers heads explode so close to eating lots of meat

How dare you!

:crazy:

I love it when these threads expose the dumb fucks who pop in here.

[Techn0Girl]

236. MAYBE YOU NEED TO DO MORE THAN TWO MINUTES OF RESEARCH ?

Regardless as to who wrote the original article or why you think they did - the key fact is the following:

"the Senate Judiciary Committee has voted to extend the three provisions with only minor changes."

Do you dispute that fact? Do you deny it?
Everything else is irrelevant distraction.

The so called "Patriot" act represented everything we loathed about the Bush administration. It was a removal of many of our Constitutional rights, rights we formerly held for hundreds of years.

And these provisions of it are being renewed. With no outcry by our Democratic majority.
And no outcry from our President.

Those are the facts.
You want to be a cheerleader? Super. Hope you have the legs for it.
Me, I want my Constitutional rights back.

[Raine]

229. We're being screwed

royally. :-(

[Stumbler]

230. Again... Where's the "change" I believed in? Not here either

[cowcommander]

234. Comic posted a while ago

Deserves to be reposted again