There's only ONE party responsible for destroying health care reform

[CTLawGuy]

and the way things are going, they aren't going to suffer one bit. It's the Republicans.

Can anyone point to any point in history where a major piece of social progress legislation was passed over LOCKSTEP (maybe 1 or 2 defectors at MOST) opposition from the other party AND where a filibuster was thwarted with 60 votes for cloture. You can't, because it hasn't happened.

I've posted these numbers before, but they provide important perspective.

In 1965, 70 House Republicans and 13 Senate Republicans supported Medicare. (I do not believe there was a filibuster threat). Conversely, nearly 50 House Dems and 7 Senate Dems OPPOSED Medicare--even under the weight of influence of the "great" Lyndon Johnson.

In 1964, 138 House Republicans and 27 Senate Republicans supported the Civil Rights Act (27 Rs also supported cloture). Conversely, 96 House Dems and 21 Senate Dems opposed the Civil Rights Act (23 senate dems opposed cloture).

There is no way either of those bills pass without the support of Republicans.

With health care, because of the prevalence of radical movement conservatism in Congress, Obama does not have the luxury of losing 100 House Democrats or even 50, his margin is 40. He cannot lose ANY senate Dems on cloture and can only lose 10 on final passage. He's in an impossible position that LBJ should be thanking his lucky stars he was never in.

And who put him there? The Republicans, who don't allow any independence or free thought, but who require lockstep thinking and voting for the purpose of embarrassing the Dems politically and trying to profit from it.

If HCR dies, the Republicans will be able to say "the Democrats can't govern" and they think they will be able to clean up in 2010. And while we attack each other and Obama gets criticized because he can't move democratic mountains, and people say he should be like LBJ (which would mean convincing fewer Dems?), the Republicans laugh all the way to the bank.

The only way to fight back is to stay unified and come out with a strong message of: the Republicans don't care about the people of this country, and we can't do anything about it because they won't let us. Division and cynicism only plays into their hands.
-------------------------------------------

Edit: Go ahead, I challenge you to find me a piece of major social change legislation that was passed over lockstep opposition (1 or 2 defectors at most) AND which obtained the required number of votes (all from the proponent's own party) to stop an attempted filibuster.

[get the red out]

1. People are delusional

I think a lot of Democrats think the President can do this alone, like he can wave Harry Potter's magic wand and there's HEALTH CARE REFORM, just materializing. With the filthy way the Republican Party uses the filibuster and marches in lock step I get really disgusted at the way Democrats want to bring the President down for not magically materializing what they want. They are as much a part of the instant gratification problem in this country as the Republicans.

This may still get through, and if any Health Care reform happens it is a start. The Republicans are not wanting government, they want RULE. We are fighting for our lives in this country with a majority because they own the fucking AM radio stations, Fox News and all the idiots in this country, and there are a lot of fucking no good idiots in this country.

[CTLawGuy]

3. exactly

getting SOMETHING passed (that's positive) even if it isn't spectacular, is a big victory because it deprives the Rs of their "Dems can't govern" talking points.

I post those Medicare and CRA vote totals because people don't understand how much the political climate differed back in the 60s. Before the 1980s the Rs were a center-right party that basically accepted that the government has a role in making our lives better, but they tried to enforce fiscal discipline. Today, the Republicans believe that government should stick to its role of killing people and enforcing Christianity in America.

[get the red out]

10. You nailed their current theme

They used to be so much different, and consequently, there used to be actual discussion and compromise. And back then neighbors didn't hate each other over politics and whole chunks of the country weren't considering other whole chunks of the country "un-american". Now talking to a Republican is like trying to make sense to a hard-core Taliban member, seriously, they are just not even in the ball park of rational.

Any victory is good now, like you said. I don't know why people don't make more of the fact that for a Democratic Senate it takes 60 votes to pass anything but in a Republican Senate it takes 51, yet in polls Republicans are very much the minority in this country? Why isn't that question being raised enough? And now people are starting to try to blow Bush off as "not a Republican, just a nut". No, he was very much representative of Republican thinking today, and not as bad probably as people like Palin and Huckabee in reality.

No one is pointing out that because of media brain washing we have come quite close to loosing our hold on democracy at all. If Republicans are elected again I seriously doubt this contry will remain the least bit democratic in anything but name. Some Democrats who don't get exactly what they want seem to want the administration to fail because then we will be taught a lesson by the next Republican administration. No we won't be taught anything if the next Republican administration takes us so far into the dark ages that we can never pull this country back out, if we find ourselves locked in additional unending wars, if people in this country loose any voice due to not being "Christian enough". We will claim to be exporting democracy as the bombs drop on any non-Christian country the Republican powers get in their sites and the Corporate powers can make a buck from, sick shit awaits us if we aren't careful. And I don't think we would be able to pull back and regroup and create the liberal paradise people want after another Republican wrecking ball.

[MH1]

15. yes, exactly

good post.

a lot of people don't get it.

[midnight]

2. Let's not forget some of our hard working Dems who spent lots of tax dollars

this past summer, doing nothing to help.

[CTLawGuy]

4. if the Rs were as reasonable as they were in the 60s

these "democrats" would be irrelevant and we wouldn't be talking about them.

[get the red out]

11. Radio hate and fear mongering

The elephant in the living room, if you will. My damned Democratic Congressman got all blue dog because of the loonies in this district controlled by the likes of Rush Limpdick. We dismiss the effectiveness of pure lying propaganda at our own peril.

They have made the word "liberal" a dirty word and we have pretended for YEARS that people wouldn't fall for it. We are in deep shit because of propaganda, the Reps even use the churches as nothing but propaganda machines.

I saw that there are some magic wanders on this thread so I am responding to your post because you make sense.

[AllentownJake]

5. Can we stop these idiotic posts

There are about 30 House Members and 5 Senators that aren't democrats. The only difference between now and the 60s is that there are no republicans that aren't republicans.

[CTLawGuy]

7. no

people are ignorant of what Obama has to deal with and these people are helping the Republicans by sowing division within our party. They point to LBJ as if he was some kind of arm-twisting, six-gun-shooting party unity master, when the reality is very different. They expect Obama to live up to fantasy-LBJ. And sitting in the woodwork is the party really responsible for why reform is going so poorly.

[AllentownJake]

8. The President is doing quite enough on his own to alienate people

From his turning from job creation to deficit reduction in his economic policies recently, to his hap hazard support of the public option over the past 6 months, to the Afghan conflict.

Does he have some bad actors to deal with, yes. Is he handling the effectively, well if caving into their threats and demands with every decision is effective and the only way than I guess he is.

The Republicans are bad, but the fact is they are irrelevant since Al Franken's recount battle was over.

For the past 20 years Democrats have been told to support "moderates" as some part of genius strategy devised by the DLC. Surprise, Surprise, they are having trouble governing.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. I find it EXCEEDINGLY difficult to believe you were ever "his people". (nt)

[AllentownJake]

14. Do a search of Jake3463 and West Virginia up on the little Google Icon

Or even better if you want I'll PM you the links to open secrets or Huffpo fundrace...granted, I wasn't as generous as Goldman Sachs.

[dionysus]

19. wait a minute. you can post doom and gloom fill your pampers shit all day, and YOU are telling

people what they can post?!?

what, is the OP not doomy enough for you jake?
pissed because the OP isn't a Failer?

why don't *you* just go back to wishing for a complete economic collapse?

[AllentownJake]

20. Blah Blah Blah

Typical similar shit you always say, I got an idea why don't you save this one on your clip board, it will save you next time you get the urge to not add anything in the future.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. Let's hope the handful of Democrats doesn't stop this going forward

Republicans want to privatize everything so companies can control. Privatized, libraries, fire departments, military, polic etc not a good policy. I don't think the founding fathers wanted to private.

[Vinca]

9. Ummm . . . we've got the majority. If Dems voted like Dems,

there would be no problem. Democrats are entirely responsible for this fiasco. They are responsible for caving in to Republicans and weakening the bill even though they have to know Republicans won't vote for it. The Republicans are the biggest bunch of assholes on the planet, but health care reform is on Democrats. Maybe we'll learn to only nominate bona fide Democrats for these positions, not Republicans looking for an open slot.

[Clio the Leo]

12. The GOP has become the modern-day Dixie-crats.

Stalling legislation the rest of the country wants because of their dogged unity.

Dogged unity is the ONE thing we could learn from them ... and I'm afraid it may take us being in the minority again before we realize that.

I think it may be entirely possible that the President will be able to get MORE done with the Republicans in the majority. I dont WANT that, but I can see a scenario where that happens.

[Cha]

16. Thanks, CTLawGuy..

[iceman66]

17. Excellent post.

[emulatorloo]

18. Good Post, great history lesson. REC n/t