Dean: There's No Real Insurance Reform In Health Care Bills

[VMI Dem]

"This thing has been pretty watered down. Right now, it's about as watered down as it could be and still be a real bill. For example, there's really no insurance reform in this bill, already," Dean said on MSNBC.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/dean-theres-no-real-insurance-reform-in-health-care-bills.php

[Undercurrent]

1. Confused

Howard Dean on Health-Care Bill: 'This Is Real Reform'

Look, I want single-payer, too. But this bill has a lot of things in it that will quickly offer substantial relief, and I'm not joining the wholesale condemnation. Even Howard Dean called it "real reform" tonight and said he'd vote for it.

Article with Video of Dean: http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/howard-dean-healthcare-bill-real-refo

[vaberella]

7. I'm going to think he has a light bipolar case. He should attend counseling with Tweety.

I'm bloody confused too.

[Cha]

27. So am I..

<snip>

"The fact is, this is real reform, Dean emphasized. "That's all I really care about, is real reform. ... It's not the kind of reform that I would have loved, but this is pretty good stuff, and it really is going to make a difference."

http://rawstory.com/2009/10/dean-house-health-bill/

[grantcart]

31. Me too I get an email every day from his brother telling me to get off my fat ass

and do something constructive to get this thing passed NOW!!

[Egnever]

38. House/ senate bills

Two different things.

[fascisthunter]

2. so he finally read it?

because his statement about a week ago was the opposite.

[VMI Dem]

3. Don't know.

He states in the video "I just figured this out in the last few days."

[Donnachaidh]

4. it's about time!

Come on Howard -- start pushing back on this corporate swag bag for the insurance companies.

[depakid]

5. As mentioned to folks back in February

it's a good thing that Dean was rejected by the administration- because he doesn't have anything to do with this fiasco.

[vaberella]

6. Dunno..he was helping it along a few weeks back. Now he's saying it's watered down.

Whatever.

[depakid]

8. I think he's finally had enough of being the good soldier.

And it is watered down -and many provisions are 4 years too late. Beauty.

In 8 short months, the Democrats have managed to identify themselves with both the banksters and the health insurers.

Remember- they're not "bad people."

[Zodiak]

19. That is only because the banksters and insurance Dems are the leaders

This is how they take a dive and lose power. And they love it when "liberals" take the blame for their sabotage.

The whole purpose of the game is to make sure average Americans get nothing but a boot up their ass.

[ChiciB1]

37. I Think He Was Really Trying To "Help" But In His Heart He Has Decided

that what a lot of us are seeing and feeling is a NEW Reality! Obama said he wanted a STRONG Public Option and I haven't heard PUSH from him for quite some time. And even when he said it, he didn't go out and RALLY THE TROOPS!

I'm sure Dean felt he was going to really FIGHT FOR IT and now sees he hasn't! Congress does bear the brunt, but Obama could have done so MUCH MORE!

Sorry folks, looks like YES WE CAN, ain't so much so! Too many Corporate Communists (as Ratigan calls them) hanging around the Oval Office and the inner circle!!!

[msongs]

9. only takes a few minutes for dems to cave and water down a bill to get it passed nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Dr. Dean has been campaigning for a TRUE Public Option available to all

And that's not what's in the mutated House Bill and the Senate version is also very weak. (and it hasn't even been attacked and amended by the false "Democrats" yet).

Why shouldn't Dean speak the truth about it?

[OneGrassRoot]

12. He should, it's just that as recently as last week (perhaps the week before?)....

he was saying this is real reform. Those of us who listen carefully to what he says -- and respect him tremendously, especially on this issue -- have been paying attention and were encouraged that he was supporting the bill, albeit acknowledging it's far from what he would prefer.

This is a decidedly different comment from what he's been saying recently. Maybe he was putting a positive spin on things as long as possible and now the writing is evidently on the wall about it not going in a direction he hoped it would.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. This comment at the link.....

says what many hope will be the case:

"Dean's right on the last point, that people will like it once it goes into effect. Conservatives are scared not that it will fail, but that it will succeed and the debate will change to how to make incremental improvements instead of how to get rid of it. That's why delaying some reforms until 2014 bugs me. It's the typical compromise between a good idea and stupidity: do it half-assed."

[dflprincess]

11. How odd.

I would have said "there's no real health care reform in the insurance bills."

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. +10

[optimator]

14. of course there is no reform

did Dr Dean actually think there would be?

[Hekate]

15. Ohhhhhhh.....shit..... When Dr. Dean turns against it, it's bad

x(

[slipslidingaway]

16. A little late to tell the people now :( n/t

[DrToast]

17. Dean doesn't know what he's talking about

He's not even a top 10 pundit when it comes to understanding and reporting on this issue.

[Zodiak]

20. and you are qualified to know this because you ARE one of the top ten?

Your personal attack on Dean's knowledge is cute, but it is 100% fucking useless to this thread....just more personality-driven bullshit.

How is he wrong?

Do you have a list of pundits on this issue to make that determination?

Are pundits the main experts in the world? Why do you look for "pundits" for expertise?

Answers these questions or stick to the the issues.

[DrToast]

22. Yikes! Panty-unbundler on aisle one!

Forget your meds today, dude?

[Zodiak]

33. This is not an argument...its a personal attack

Try again because the adolescent bullshit is not going to fly.
And the attempt to feminize me is cute, but it scores you exactly nothing.

How are you qualified to know that Dean is a know-nothing?
Why do you care who the "top ten pundits" are?, and who are they since this is the entire basis of your post?

Put up or shut up, "doctor".

[DrToast]

34. I responded to a personal attack with a personal attack. Go figure.

[Zodiak]

35. I did not personally attack you

But I did say that your post is "fucking useless" because unless you qualify it with some kind of evidence, it is fucking useless.

So either you are a complete idiot who does not know attacking a post vs. attacking a person

....or you are intellectually dishonest and just on DU to throw shit against the wall and make us all smell it.

I would elect the latter because your personal attack was not only off-topic, but it was also sexist as hell.

...and I STILL have seen nothing from you by way of evidence....just more sophistry.

So let's go, "doctor". Show us what you know about Dean's knowledge on the issue, or continue playing your Jr. High games. But if you elect the latter, do so knowing that your contribution to this thread is just rhetorical vomit that contributes more to the noise than the signal on this site.

[DrToast]

36. You did personally attack me...

Don't pick something else and pretend that's what I'm talking about.

By the way, let's all remember where this started, Eisntein.

I don't need to justify my posts to you. I'm not sure when you think you got crowned king of all fucking existence, but I have some bad news for you on that front.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings by criticizing your pal, but you need to grow up and get over it.

As pleasant as this thread has been, I'm going to find something more productive to do than talk to you. The bar is pretty low, so maybe banging my head against a wall will work.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

18. There are 2 Dr. Howard Deans

1 is the man we've all known and respected and admired who has done more to educate and draw people together on the need for real reform than almost anyone else, with the exception of Physicians for National Health Program. His standwithdrdean website was an outstanding resource as was his always unvarnished and honest commentary.

The 2nd Dr. Dean is the guy who is now a paid consultant for the biotech pharma industry who came down on the side of that industry in the Eshoo amendment - and I think that correlates to his "this is real reform comment" - he seemed to be for now be for something he had always been against (not having a REAL public option) because it was good for his clients.

So there you go.

Today he seems back to the old and beloved Howard Dean #1.

[vaberella]

25. You had reason to mention his connections before. It was needed.

I'm personally confused as to where he stands on this.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

29. Do you mean this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6901201#6902095

I don't want Howard Dean number 2 to throw away everything that Howard Dean number 1 stood for. It's his life - he can do as he pleases BUT there is understandable confusion on our part as we try to reconcile shifting opinions.

[vaberella]

32. That's the one. It's too bad it can't be resurrected because I think it shows the confusion. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

28. I've been confused by Dean since May when he said the public option is...

the same as single payer.

I did not sleep very well that night in May when I heard Dean state on the Ed Show that single was not off the table. I posted a poll shortly afterwards asking if people thought the public option was the same as single payer. After that appearance I've listened more closely to what Dean said, there was a constant confusion of terms and selling the Obama plan of a public option as "being like Medicare."

Then there was the speech at the AHIP Convention in June telling the insurance companies the public option would not be that bad for them and the push for longer data exclusivity period on biologics.

In sum all very disappointing.

Begins at the 2:55 mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DitCTKPL-xI

"...What Obama's plan essentially does is give you the choice of whether you want to be in a single-payer or private insurance plan..."


Interview on the Ed Show was during the time that SP advocates were trying to get a seat at the Senate round tables - Baucus had excluded them from participating. Ed asked Dean what he thought about SP being off the table, Dean said SP is Not off the table. Dean knows what the physicians were advocating for when they talk about SP, Medicare for All.

Why would he confuse the issue and lead people to believe that the public option is the same as SP or just like SP???

In addition he keeps referring to the public option as being like Medicare, but Medicare does not have to compete for the basic coverage with private insurance plans and started with millions of people in the plan which could then bargain for lower prices.


"Public option is like single payer. It gives consumers the choice..."


"AMY GOODMAN: Explain what is the public option, as it’s been presented.

HOWARD DEAN: For the average American, they should best think of it as Medicare..."


Links and more here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8606842&mesg_id=8608167


http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/07/21/biotech_firms_lobby_hard_for_say_on_healthcare/?page=2

"...Dean failed to note in his editorial that he is an adviser to McKenna, Long & Aldridge, a global law firm that is advising the Biotechnology Industry Organization, the influential trade group. Nor did Trippi mention that his public relations firm handles social media projects in a partnership with the Boston public relations company Brodeur Partners, which also has BIO as a client.

After the Globe inquired about those ties, both Dean and Trippi said they only advocate for causes they genuinely support, but said they should have disclosed those relationships and would do so in the future.

Trippi, who suffers from serious complications of diabetes, noted that he has advocated for biotech for years. But Dean said his editorial was part of McKenna’s rapid-fire response to an unexpected, eleventh-hour Senate health committee proposal (which biotech firms ultimately fought off).

“It was a huge scramble, all hands on deck,’’ Dean said..."

[ClarkUSA]

21. Dean 'added that the Senate bill is "decent" and the House bill is "better."' Seems he is waffling.

[Oregone]

24. Super strange after all his shilling...

And truth bending. He jumped from one blind extreme to another.

There are some "reforms" here, and some positive aspects. They will be bundled with a detrimental approach to industry that isn't in the traditional ideology of the Democratic Party. The situation will change, that much can be sure of (though this change will have its own problems, and this might be no more of a step forward than standing still).

But its odd to say there is no "real" reform. *Something* will change after the bill, so thats just ficticious in its own right. This is one odd guy. Not the one I remember rooting for so many years ago in the primary.

[vaberella]

26. Maybe they removed that clause he was pushing that was in the Health bill. n/t

[Egnever]

39. Or he was pushing the house bill and is now talking about the senate

I havent yet read the senate bill. I suspect its not nearly as good as the houses though.

[mddem9850]

30. dean speaks the truth