Time to kill this version of a Public Option?

[Perky]

I am not opposed to a Public Option. I simply do not want to derail the entire legislative package of reforms over it.


Uncouple the two. Pass the Insurance reforms. Open up the exchanges. let well regulated insurers sell across state lines, and move forward into the 21st centuty on how we maintain medical records.

Get the damn thing passed. Take the victory lap.


Look folks.... the perfect is gone.... Long gone. We should not let the "piss poor" public option that might eek its way out of conference committee be the enemy of the good reforms and controls that can be implemented right away. Progressives are going to hate what emerges any way you look at it and it will serve as a rallying point for the right. There is little upside to that course, Not for the 45 Million and not for the Party and not for the President.

There is an opportunity to save some political capital here by getting done something that works. save some House seats, Show the GOP as completely in the back pocket of insurance industry and leverage that in the midterms for maybe a couple more Senate seats.


We pass legislation that is bad or weak and perceived to be govenermnt-run health care or socialism or ...whatever, we put a big target on our backs for the mid terms. and we will have to wait another 20 years for real reform

A Public Plan was going to be delayed 3 years plus anyway Lets wait a year and be in the position to get a better plan done and operational in two.

[no limit]

1. So force people to buy insurance and dont offer any kind of public option?

Excuse my french, but fuck that.

[daleanime]

4. Is what currently on the table...

really a public option?

[no limit]

5. Yes, in this bill there really is a public option. Its not some kind of jedi mind trick

[daleanime]

6. So if the bill is passed...

we can all get in it, and it's managed by government not private interest? That great news.

[IndianaGreen]

23. The bill has a Public Option In Name Only

brought to us by DINOs.

[dotymed]

7. Why don't we do the right thing?

Lets scrap this huge disaster labeled as HC reform and force
the Congress and the Media to present the honest ramifications
of passing HR676. Just inform everyone about the good and bad
side of an easily understood bill. One that puts our health
care on parity with the rest of the civilized world and saves
us money. Show how we can regulate the drug companies, et.
al., to earn a fair profit and let people survive. End the
Fascism that greases the wheels...Pass a Constitutional
Amendment that requires Health Care for all. Everyones life is
equally valuable. Whether we are a Christian or a Atheistic
society, that is true. The only type of society that would
deny that is a Capitalistic one. A society where corporations
and legal institutions determine how much your life is worth.
Just like America did after 9-11. We paid the survivors of
rich victims many times what we paid the survivors of poor
victims. Based on their potential earnings and potential
contributions to society...now that was a real "death
panel." I wonder how much they paid for fetuses? What a
country.

[no limit]

8. Why dont we replace all the guns in the world with flowers while we're at it

[ChiciB1]

11. Great Comment! And Right On As I See It!! n/t

[dotymed]

13. no limit? what a strange "handle"

for a person who doesn't see the value of honesty. Wonderful, "I'd like to buy the world a coke" analogy too.

[no limit]

18. Let me know what you want me to do to get single payer for everybody and I'll do it

give me something real I can do, I dont need a speech.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Why don't we shoot the blue dogs and the bankers!

And storm our own Bastille while we are at it. That's a better scenario than the rape of the working class that you are advocating.

[daleanime]

9. Amen brother, amen...

O8)

[havocmom]

12. Yep. No Public Option? Then no mandate to purchase!

edited for typo

Remember when Wall Street and Big Biz (with GOP) pushed 'Privatizing' Social Security? Remember how relieved we were that it didn't fly when we realized what would have happened to working class's security pension when Wall Street crashed and stocks fell mightily? It was bad enough that people of moderate means lost so much of the value they were counting on from their personal investments. The same could have happened to workers' Social Security, the last wall against abject poverty for many in their old age. Phew, we really dodged the bullet!

Or did we?

Without the shot of Social Security money, Wall Street fell. And merged, shuffled a lot of paper, pretended things were fine, paid out mega bonuses. And fell again, taking down giants this time.

Seems The Street really needed those forced payroll deductions that would have come from Privatizing Social Security. Hmmmm. Did anybody notice?

Health Care Reform comes along. Yes, indeedy, reform is needed, in so many of the facets of health care:
The paying for it.
The delivery of it.

The law suits driving doctors out of business and the fact that only a few doctors seem to be driving the quantity of malpractice suits but getting them out of medicine isn't done often enough, so all doctors end up paying career ending premium increases.

Insurers forcing providers to deliver less real health care to patients by setting up systems where quantity rules over quality of care and we end up with McMedicine.

Insurers who are exempt from laws against collusion, making sure 'competition' is a farce.

Insurers who take payments for years, then let bookkeepers and lawyers decide who gets what care.

Insurers who hire doctors (who probably couldn't keep their own practices going) to give their bookkeepers and lawyers cover from being charged with practicing medicine without license.

Drug companies marketing directly to patients who then demand expensive meds they saw on TV, whether they are appropriate for the individual or not......

oh, so much reform needed

And, yes, covering more people would help with costs as ER as primary care is expensive. Plus, we might be a much healthier population if people could actually get the care they needed (that goes for the uninsured as well as those paying for insurance, but not actually getting what they paid for).

But the mandate.... ah, that is the monster offspring of the marriage of politics and Wall Street. Let me rant a bit more here on this mandate.

Wall Street didn't get to have payroll taxes (Social Security payments) mailed directly to it and they floundered for lack of new stone added to hold their pyramid up. But, if everybody HAS to buy insurance, by golly, payroll tax to Wall Street accomplished! Ok, through a side door, but accomplished none the less.

What does your insurance company (if you can afford one) do with the dollars you (and your employer, if you have a group policy) pay? It doesn't go into bandages and iodine. It gets invested on Wall Street. See where this is going?

Mandate that everyone buy insurance and insurance companies have more money to play with at the casino on the Street. The Street gets those new stones to hold up the pyramid a bit longer. Bonuses are safe and everybody gets to go out to swanky watering holes to celebrate.

Everybody but the middle class, working class, working poor, and flat-out-unable-to-eat-and-pay-rent-poor. They get a legal obligation to give money to the guys at the top, arguably the same guys who set up all the financial failures they so desperately need to camouflage in hopes of maintaining the lifestyle to which they think they are entitled. They get a government enforced bill, whether they can afford it or not; whether it actually gets them real care or not.

The folks working for wages or salaries (that are not subsidized by the massive bonuses like the Fat Cats get) have been losing economic ground for almost two generations now. Pay has not kept up. Job security is a myth from a bygone era. People are becoming homeless at a rather unnerving pace. And THEY get the bill for health care? THEY have to pay the tab or face penalties?

Wow.

The wage earner gets another tax, whether they have a roof over their head or not. They get a mandate to pay up and the money will end up going to Wall Street. Yep, mission accomplished.

Fuck this shit. If there is gonna be a mandate, there had better be a ROBUST public option, no opt out where the whims of state pols would put workers at financial risk, and the end of legal protections for insurers to be racketeers. There had better be some kick ass regulations of pay on the Street. There had better be some rules separating the banking, stocks, insurance industries again, and they by god better be seriously enforced.

The mandate is a side door payroll tax given to the Street. Just like they tried to do with privatizing the money taken out for Social Security. Without the other parties to the mess being forced to change, pay, accept REAL regulation, the Street might consider the ugly alternatives that could have gone down in America if FDR had not taken such strong measures to help mend the social contract with the working class back in his day.

The mandate is a tax, being levied by, and paid to, businesses with whom the workers have no representation. Why the hell isn't there some tea being pitched about that little reality?

[Perky]

26. Did I say anything about a Mandete>

[Clio the Leo]

2. Debate doesn't even begin until a week from Monday......

.... can we at least give the thing a chance to stall before we nix it?

[endless october]

3. it doesn't work without a public option.

it's bad enough that it will only be available to a tiny percentage of people anyway.

[ClarkUSA]

10. 97% of all bills that reach this point become law, so I doubt there will be much tweaking of it. nt

[dotymed]

15. Then

What will we do about Lincoln? The Democrat against a public option?

[IndianaGreen]

22. This is a corporate bill that will hurt the working class

It is crap wrapped as a Xmas gift.

[davidpdx]

33. Godzilla for President!

He'd light their asses on fire and smoke'em for breakfast.

[freddie mertz]

14. The Joe Lieberman plan for America.

Great idea, let's surrender without even making a fight.

[Thrill]

16. There will never be a time where they are in a better position

The centrist still will run the Congress. You're not going to get a better PO than this one.

And no matter when you do, its going to take a few yrs to get it setup to run properly

[IndianaGreen]

21. Kill this turkey. Then go to the country for a real Public Option (Medicare)

The Public Option we should fight for is to give people the choice to join Medicare before they are 65. VA should cover all veterans, even for non-service related health issues.

[Politicub]

17. I am against any bill that allows insurers to sell over state lines

This is the privilege credit card issuers were given in 1998, and look at what has happened.

There's a reason why most if not all of the credit card issuers moved to Delaware or South Dakota. These states have the least restrictive laws for credit cards, which is one of the many reasons why then can gouge card holders with extreme interest fees, excessive late payment fees, or pretty much whatever they want to do.

Do you want insurers to do the same thing? I know I don't. Though it sounds good on the surface, selling insurance over state lines would be disastrous since most insurers will move to the states that would give them the least restrictive regulations and controls.

If insurers are allowed to sell policies across state lines, states will fall over themselves to offer the best deal for insurers to get the jobs, taxes, etc. in their state.

If you think insurance is expensive or difficult to get now, you haven't seen anything until they are allowed to sell across state lines.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. ROFL.. you think this will be brought up again in a year ? Maybe in 2 decades, maybe

we do it now or it doesn't get done.


Get the damn piss poor public option done, so it can then be amended through budget reconciliation and not require 60 votes in the Senate.


Yes, there are serious problems with this bill but we need to get past the 60 vote threshold.

[dflprincess]

30. Do you honestly think they'll go back and "fix" anything if this scam is passed?

If this is the best the Democrats could do with the majorities they have, there's no way they'll make any changes once they start losing seats.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Honestly I do

Maybe not in a year but in 3 or 4 years (assuming Obama is re-elected) yes. Once the bill passes and Americans realize the hysteria that the right wing sold them didn't actually come to fruition it will be politically easier to go back and tweak with the bill.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Instead of a real public option, they are giving us a Public Option In Name Only

DUers are well advised to search DU archives and see how what we were promised as a public option has become a charade, a bait-and-switch to a Public Option In Name Only (POINO).

[RBInMaine]

25. Good idea! Get a bill passed and build later, just like everything else.

[bvar22]

27. Any day now,

...THEY are going to "fix" NAFTA and the Patriot Act like THEY promised.

I've heard the "we'll fix it later but we need to get something passed now" scam too many times to count.

[BlooInBloo]

28. What a bunch of quitters.

[Aramchek]

29. Obama will sign a Bill with a public Option. End of Story.

[debbierlus]

31. Don't pass this atrocity of a bill with or without a public option

You think that the dems are going to revisit this in a couple of years, if this corporate bailout bill is passed?

[Marsala]

32. Let it die in the Senate but bring it back in conference committee

If it's possible to do, this is probably the easiest solution.