I think many of us here would do well to remember that "politics is the art of the possible".

[argonaut]

Otto Van Bismarck said that in 1867, and it's every bit as relevant today, almost 150 years later. Is, for example,the public option available ideal?
No, unfortunately, it's not.

I do believe, however, that this healthcare bill is the best possible, given the 'big tent' makeup of House and Senate Democrats.

So, unlesss someone can come up with a way to convert Landrieu, Nelson, Lincoln et al into committed progressives...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. You are exactly right.

We are starting and even though this is not the ideal outcome, it IS a starting point.

We will work to make it better as time passes...

K&R

:toast:

[cornermouse]

22. This is also going to be the ending point.

They're going to have additional funds from the premiums of all those new customers to turn into lobby money and try to get rid of the portions they don't like or consider too much of a drain on their profits; not unlike what they've already done.

In short, they'll be using our money to block any "better".

[Cant trust em]

2. I think that you're right. We need to nominate different dems.

Enough of this start in the middle and hope they move to the left crap.

[napi21]

3. That's true, however, it's no reason to stop trying! I think there IS

som possible PO that might make it through. Maybe it's the trigger. Yea I know, we all hate it, but if it's written right it can work just fine.

[argonaut]

4. Indeed, we even call our movement "progressive"... n/t

[EFerrari]

5. Aim low.

ETA: Okay, that was cranky but you don't get a better deal by backing down every time or by not asking for more than you want in the first place.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Politics Is The Art Of *Increasing* What's Possible

70% of Americans want a Public Option - the bills moving today are possible in the sense that it's possible for my car to drive at 30 miles per hour.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. To put that more cleary:

Demanding everything now, and refusing to settle for anything less than everything-now is a good way to end up with nothing-ever. Instead you take what you can get today, let society adjust to it and get to liking it, then come back to go for more.

[dflprincess]

10. What we're getting today is protection of the status quo

and nothing more. The bill is more concerned with keeping pharma and the insurance companies happy that seeing to it that Americans actually have access to care.

[rwheeler31]

8. Thank you

[nevergiveup]

9. If we can get something close to the present bill it will be a start

just as the first Medicare and first Social Security bills were a "start" but it is still going to be rough going for a few weeks. I do believe that all 59 Democrats will stick together to end debate but the kicker will be Traitor Joe. The man does not care about his country, Connecticut, or his fellow man. He only cares about Joe.

[Davis_X_Machina]

11. Bismark was an optimist....

...see the Galbraith quote in my sig.

[JDPriestly]

17. I believe that Bismarck was responsible (with the German Kaiser)

for establishing universal, publicly sponsored, trade-union (the German version of trade unions at the time) managed health care -- single-payer if you will. That was back in the 1880s. Bismarck was an optimist is almost an understatement.

[Davis_X_Machina]

19. Bismark's embrace of health care...

...was, like Nixon's, a textbook case of co-opting an opposition party's signature issue, in this case the SAPD's.

[JDPriestly]

21. Exactly. Bismarck was not a liberal, but he knew when he was on the

losing side of an issue. Health care reform for Bismarck was self-defense.

[OHdem10]

12. I agree with the concept. Unfortunately some of us had bigger

dreams than we should have had. We should have accepted the
fact that this is a center right country and known we would always
get right leaning legislation.

We are learning and most of our hope is gone.

[snot]

13. I think we may be f**ked.

Sorry; but just looking at what's on DU . . . the DU'er's who've paid best attn to this subject, don't seem to agree on what the current bill says, except that it does not say anything v. helpful to those who need help most.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. Pangloss was a character to be laughed at, not emulated

[Hekate]

15. At this point I'm just resigned to it being a start, a step in the right direction....

I had hoped for more -- not everything, just... more.

Hekate

[JDPriestly]

16. For the sake of argument, I just watched a series on the Medici (on Netflix).

They rose to power by building impossible structures, hiring impossibly talented artists and teachers and generally outperforming the possible as often as they could. So, I think that maybe politics is the art of doing the impossible, working miracles and getting credit for it.

[depakid]

18. Oddly enough- its possible for Republicns to pass egregious and unpopular policies

that aren't supported by the facts or any rational analysis.

Yet the hapless Democrats can't manage with over 70% support to put together a plan that's designed to at least begin to solve the underlying problems in a timely manner.

And you're citing cliches?

How pathetic is that....

[TomCADem]

20. Agree - The Bottom Line Is Whether HRC Improves Health Care. It Does

[HamdenRice]

23. Bismark: "Legislation is like sausages. It's better not to see them being made"

I agree entirely. The bill that comes out will be decent, but folks are watching it get made, which is always a horror, while having preferred a different system, makes people much more upset than they would have been if the full bill had just been enacted with say by HHS submitting it to Congress.

Bismark: Not a nice man. Lot's of great one-liners.

[Moochy]

24. If this is the best possible

It seems like a failure of the imagination.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Possible as defined by mediocre minds or brilliant minds?

The lack of vision on the part of failed leadership belongs to them, and can not be wiped away using hackneyed axioms from less than admirable figures.

My message to all the politicians involved in this is simple. They are about to become exactly as well liked by their voters as Insurance Companies are to their customers. If that sounds like victory, go for it.

[optimator]

26. "Yes We Can"

anyone remember that phrase?

[MadHound]

27. Death by low expectations

Sorry, but I remember when Democrats could actually accomplish something meaningful. They didn't have the huge majorities they did now, they faced the same, if not worse opposition to their proposed policies than they do now. So what was different? Oh, yeah, leadership. Presidents like LBJ, as much as I hated the man, knew how to get things done. He did mollycoddle people, he didn't care about bipartisanship, he simply played political hardball to get what he wanted.

Saying that this is the best possible health care reform bill we could get is admitting the fact that the Democratic party is no longer the party of the people, and that we are ineffective at getting things done. If Obama was half the leader that LBJ or FDR was, we would have a strong public option. Instead, you're sitting here telling us that we should be lucky we have a weak public option.

How sad, how very sad, in so many ways. If this is the best that the Democrats can do, then there is no longer any point in supporting them.