"Alienating Blacks with Progressive Kneejerking"

[angee_is_mad]

This is what many black Duers have been saying during the HRC debate and primarying Obama. We are in the black community everyday, we hear the talk on the ground.

This is a short post on Bob Cesca's blog. He gets it and this is exactly what alot of us have been posting about in the last couple of weeks.

http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2009/12/alienating_blac.html

Alienating Blacks with Progressive Kneejerking
Suffice to say, I've been wary of the recent spike in progressive criticism of President Obama -- the kneejerk labeling of his presidency as a failure, and the inexplicably weird move to team up with race-baiting teabaggers and wingnuts.

Aligning with race-baiters and labeling the president a failure -- especially this early -- can only result in the alienation of African American voters, who, even if they don't agree with the president on every policy, hold the president in very high esteem -- and rightfully so.

Last year, 95 percent of black men, and 96 percent of black women voted for the president. The president's approval rating with blacks is 91 percent, according to Gallup.

Now, I'm not suggesting that accountability is out of the question. I just think we can find a better way to do it than by teaming up with teabaggers with their racist signs and questionable motives.

[AllentownJake]

1. Tell that to the Congressional Black Caucus

I haven't walked out of any major votes till I got agreement from the President to address any of my issues.

Don't try to make this a race thing.

[ProSense]

4. Your response is full of contradiction. n/t

[AllentownJake]

5. The Congressional Black Caucus held up the Financial Regulation hearing in the House

Because they did not feel the President was concerned with their districts. I supported them in the protest. They made their point with the President. What was the issue with the contradiction.

[ProSense]

7. Are you seriously trying to equate the CBC's position with the point in the OP?

Seriously?

[AllentownJake]

8. Oh the teaming up with "Tea Baggers" thing

There are very few people "teaming up" with Tea Baggers. The dissent with Administration policy is being overblown by some people on here, because they all thought the world was going to be the night of January 20th forever.

The only example I can come close to thinking of mainstream in Hamsher, and I've gone on the record she needs to put up or shut up on the Rahm/Fraud allegations.

[Clio the Leo]

31. So dissatisfaction on the part of some Obama supporters was inevitable? NT

[AllentownJake]

40. Duh

People who are hiding out in the bat cave ought to pick up a book and see what critics said of other men who people view as Gods now in their time frame. I think the President has been woefully negligent on the economy while he went on his Holy Grail quest for Health Care but in 30 years there is the possibility it could evolve into something where he has a monument on the Mall of himself for. Since he hasn't put the hammer down on the most powerful entity in America the banking industry when he had the chance, I doubt it, but you never know.

Afghanistan might be major foreign policy victory and he might have an Air Craft Carrier in 20 years.

My goodness, Al Smith, FDR's democratic predecessor was involved in a literal military coup attempt with Prescott Bush.

Huey Long almost ran for President in 1936 for the party nomination and the only thing that stopped him was he was killed.

People though Jefferson's purchase from France was a waste of money.

[Clio the Leo]

57. So how can he be blamed if disappointment was inevitable?

It was a trick question. ;) ..... I knew there would be disappointment and more importantly HE knew it and said as much in the foreword of "Audacity." .... when your base is that broad you're not going to be able to please everyone. All you can do is do what you believe is best for the country as a whole.

He doesn't owe more to you and I who worked for him all along than he does the independent voter who made up their mind on election day because he needed ALL of us to win. And Constitutionally, he doesn't owe more to his voters than he does to those who voted against him .... or didn't vote at all.

[AllentownJake]

62. That is perfectly true

and just because I was a strong supporter in his primary and general election campaign, doesn't mean he has my vote or I won't do a write-in protest in 2012 if he pisses me off enough. I owe him no loyalty, he owes me no loyalty, the same with the party. At some point if I feel it has strayed enough from my personal ideology, I'm free to walk away.

However, I'll make a shit load of noise before I did it so they know why.

[Clio the Leo]

67. And if your doing so wasn't in essence a vote for the GOP...

.... I'd consider that an admirable thing to do. But I've never been a fan of a protest that only serves to achieve the opposite goal of what was originally intended.

The phrase "better to light a candle than curse the darkness" comes to mind. But I never claimed to be anything but a pragmatist.

And perhaps that is how we should define ourselves ... not progressives .... because that's a relative term .... but ideologues and pragmatists .... the divination lines on those terms are perfectly clear.

[AllentownJake]

69. I've made my line in the sand abundantly clear in my OP on the greatest page

Reverse this trend, in a measurable way, or I fucking walk. I have no desire to vote for Grant like corruption or dominionist Christianity.

We are going to burn the place down, go for it, don't expect me to pick the arsonist.

He's got 3 years to prove to me, clock is ticking.

[Clio the Leo]

76. lol, well by all means, get the man off of the golf course!

... Jake's a'waiting. :)

Barring the GOP developing a brain, reversing its present course and running a moderate .... if (hypothetically) the President moved more toward the middle and dismissed the far left, all he's going to do is pick up more independants.

It's a wash.

I come from a long line of Yellow Dog Democrats .... any Democrat is better than any Republican on any day.

[AllentownJake]

78. I lived in Philadelphia for 3 years

Katz would have been better than Street and poor Nutter who is a genuinely a good and decent man, is stuck with his mess.

In PA we've had republicans who are to the left of democrats. Be careful with your party-line votes.

[Jamastiene]

101. Expectations.

If your expectations are very high, you can be disappointed. If expectations were low, people would not be disappointed. Expectations make the difference.

[Clio the Leo]

106. I think how informed those expectations are makes a difference as well. NT

[Number23]

38. Do you not realize that Obama is more popular with black voters than black elected officials

in their own districts? The CBC has nothing to do with the feelings of average blacks on the street. And contrary to what you see here on DU, the CBC has been very supportive of the President on the whole.

[AllentownJake]

44. If people want to make this a race issue

I feel sorry for them, I've volunteered for 3 black candidates and against 1. The 3 black candidates were the people who I thought were best because of the content of their character I saw at the time, the one was running against a middle age polish man, who is a policy genius and quite progressive on some issues. The one I campaigned against was also a conservative republican.

:shrug:

[Number23]

52. Whether anyone 'wants' this to be a race issue or not, there will always be elements of that involve

To pretend otherwise is naive and fools absolutely NO ONE.

You were the one who almost reflexively brought up the CBC as if to say "well these black people are angry at Obama too" and I just pointed out the fact that there are members of the CBC who wish with all their heart that they had Obama's poll ratings, even amongst black members of their own constituency. And at the end of the day, I truly, honestly do believe that the CBC (along with the vast majority of black America) has the President's back.

[AllentownJake]

55. I have his back against certain people

I do not have his back against others.

I've been pretty profuse with my critique of this guy since around June. None of it has to do with who his parents were.

I canvassed for him, the week that Reverend Wright went prime-time. So to see a post that implies critiques by progressives are racially motivated...will make me very angry, as a progressive.

[Number23]

66. Jake, we all know your resume.

You've posted it God knows how many times.

But what I'm just trying to get you to understand is that the black community feels that the attacks against Obama from some "liberals" are racially motivated, and that is something that is exacerbated by comments from liberals who keep saying that they have so much in common with teabaggers and are already talking about primarying Obama before his first damn year in office has been completed. From where many of us sit, he has not even had a chance to fail and many of us don't think that he is failing anyway. Not by a long shot.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, that is a MASSIVE red flag for many (though certainly not all) black and brown progressives. Hell, even many white progressives get pissed off listening to that mess! And again, it may make you uncomfortable to understand this point, but it makes me uncomfortable when I see that black, Hispanic, Asian and Native American communities are largely sticking by him -- the very communities that have been chewed up and spit out by this country the most -- while members of the white community are already calling him a failure. America has ALWAYS had a f*cked up history when it comes to race and this is just another chapter of it. Drawing your attention to this may make you angry, but it is what it is. And I think that people should listen.

[AllentownJake]

73. My objections to policy are well reasoned

I could give a fuck if a Bear was a President, if it agreed with my ideology and I'm not going to shut-up over things I find absolutely insane because I'm worried about offending a few people.

He's done a few things that if Bush did, people would be rioting in the streets this year.

[Number23]

79. Then that's your right. But just understand that as you have the right to voice your "objections"

as do others. And they will. And I don't think anyone has asked your or anyone else to "shut up or risk offending people" but if that's how you want to interpret things, I personally could give less than a damn.

[babylonsister]

89. Excellent post, Number 23! Very well said!

:thumbsup:

[AspenRose]

92. It's like PUMA, revisited

It really is

[Jamastiene]

102. The disappointment is not because of his race.

It is because of his actions.

[butterfly77]

141. Thank you!

You explained it perfectly...

[Joe Chi Minh]

151. You don't think it's about him sacking his identifiably progressive advisors

immediately he acceded to the presidency? Or reinstating in the highest offices of government charged with running the economy, the very architects of its snow-balling destruction? Or enriching the known criminals of the health-insurance industry by many million, or is it billions, of dollars with the proposed mandate, at the expense of the masses, whom they deem to be moribund peasants, anyway, and many of whom would struggle to afford the payments?

Are these trivial issues to your mind, in no way giving cause for horrified wonderment and disbelief? You have a bizarre threshold of tolerance towards your party's political leadership.

This is not to say that Obama hasn't done and isn't doing valuable work in all sorts of areas of your national life, but in view of the major issues alluded to in my first paragraph, to a lot of American families, now destitute or close to destitution, it must smack of re-arranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

[angee_is_mad]

68. and I volunteered and contributed to more white candidates

and since you obviously want to go there. Blacks have voted for more white presidential candidates then whites have voted for blacks.

There goes the theory that blacks only vote on race. Hell if that was the case Al Sharpton would have made it farther in the primaries.

[kayla9170]

74. K & R Your Reply

Also, if that was the case, Jesse Jackson would have made it pass South Carolina in 1988, I think.

You know, African-American people vote in unison and only support a candidate because he/she is African-American, you know :sarcasm:

It continues to amaze me how other races think that we do not review and evaluate candidates just like they happen to do. Like we are told who to vote for and just vote for them, for the hell of it.......

Again, I stated that I am a Moderate Independent. I have voted for Democrats, Independents and some Republicans, IF I thought that they could serve the interest that were important to me. I guess I am not a true African-American because I have voted Republican on occasions :sarcasm:

[kayla9170]

77. And Some of my Best Friends are "Black".......and on and on.......

:eyes: :argh: :nopity:

[mkultra]

108. yup, Its amazing how many bigots this party still contains.

[freddie mertz]

123. Why are you accusing the poster on post 44 of racism?

[freddie mertz]

121. Are you calling Jake a bigot?

[Jamastiene]

145. I think some are calling us ALL bigots,

from the looks of it.

[freddie mertz]

148. That was my impression too.

I thought this was against the rules here.

Silly me.

[Cha]

2. The teabaggers are full of

shit and anyone who would march with them.

They're alienating a lot more people than the Blacks.

[snagglepuss]

3. Yet we read that Black members of Congress growing impatient with Obama.

snip
Tension between the 42-member black caucus and Obama has been building for months. Some members of the group who complained about what they consider years of neglect and indifference by the George W. Bush administration now say they're growing increasingly frustrated with the Obama administration, too.

Last week, 10 members of the black caucus boycotted a House committee meeting until some of their demands were included in banking reform legislation that Obama wants passed.




http://www.ajc.com/news/black-members-of-congress-237167.html?cxtype=rss_news_128746



So are we to understand that the Black members of Congress are the Progressives Cesca refers to?

[angee_is_mad]

19. name ONE CBC who has advocated primarying Obama?

Name ONE CBC member who has advocated working with teabaggers to kill HRC?

One can have disagreements and grievances with any elected official, but to advocate working AGAINST President Obama's agenda that is different. Ask CBC member would consign on that. Ask them, I dare you. Hell none of them will come out this past week and say they would vote against HRC. They have said they are disappointed and they will review their options, but not one has said he/she would vote against final passage.

On CBS News James Clyburn said he would vote for HRC w/o PO.


Host John Dickerson asked Clyburn point blank whether he could vote for a final health care bill that does not include the public option.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/27/ftn/main6027170.shtml

"Yes, sir, I can," Clyburn said. "Because why do we want a public option? We want a public option to do basically three things: create more choice for insurers; create more competition for insurance companies; and to contain costs. So if we can come up with a process by which these three things can be done, then I'm all for it. Whether or not we label it a public option or not is of no consequence. What we want to do is get good, effective results from whatever we put in place."

[AusDem]

58. i agree with you

but HRC is short for Hillary. though I wouldn't be surprised if some teabag lunatics wanted to "kill HRC"
its HCR that you're looking for I think! :D

I think the key thing that Allentown missed was that its not you who's making this about race. Race is an issue when teabaggers (some of whom are clearly and overtly racist) are involved. and there have been many progressives who have advocated teaming up with them (and actually have teamed up with to some extent) to kill certain pieces of legislation. This becomes a racial issue when african americans feel that progressives are joining hands to some extent with people who are blatantly racist.

its a tough one though, because I'm not 100% against having a dialogue with SOME of these people who may not be racist, but who's primary concern is government bailouts of corporations and no oversight of huge sums of money being spent by the government.

[angee_is_mad]

70. How can non racists march side by side with racists?

Why not start a separate movement?

When I see so call non racists marching with teabaggers holding up signs telling Obama to go back to Africa and portrayed as a witch doctor, I have to believe they feel the same way. They are just smart enough not to have a sign saying it.

[FrenchieCat]

28. DIssent is not calling for him to be a one termer.....

and just like one should not confuse elected officials with their constituents,
that is the case across the board.

Black folks didn't come out in extraordinary numbers in order to elect a Black man to office,
only to have him dissed and be disrespected because he didn't turn out to be a progressive George Bush.

If white folks wanted to elect a ganster, then they should have done so.

[kayla9170]

32. Again, great response

When a African-American President acts with the level headed intelligence that he was elected to act with, it is a PROBLEM with certain individuals....i.e. The Hamster, FDL, the folks at Huffington Post and some here on DU. If he was acting like the rapper Lil' Wayne 24/7/365, they would have a PROBLEM with that also. I just have to ask, how to certain individuals expect for our President to react? Make up your mines because it can only be one way or the other.........

[FrenchieCat]

35. It depends on what day it is and for what occassion.

Some progressives want to be pulling strings, and it frustrates them to no end,
that this man is truly his own man.

[Balderdash]

127. That's fine but when it's voting time again...

[snagglepuss]

37. Odd since I recall blacks were initially very cool towards Obama

having thrown their support behind Hillary. All of a sudden you make it sound like they were there for him when he didn't have a hope in hell of winning the Primary. Did blacks come out for him from the getgo? Nope. Who were his original supporters? Answer me that.

[angee_is_mad]

41. Blacks didn't TRUST that white people would vote for him

and you had some older black people who were afraid that he would be assassinated. hillary even used this strategy against him.

DON'T GO THERE and if you do DON'T GET IT TWISTED!!!

[snagglepuss]

54. White people were his initial supporters. How is it they were willing to

risk a longshot, yet blacks were playing it safe? The only one twisting anything is you.

[angee_is_mad]

63. I'm telling You what was being said in the community

Your point was that black people didn't initially support him. Which was correct. I gave you the reason why.

Whites were his initial supporters and they were the majority supporters of hillary and john edwards.

When he won Iowa, that was when the tide changed in the black community. That give us hope that if one of the whitest states would vote for him over hillary and that he could win the whole damn thing.

BTW, I supported him in the beginning and my family didn't. Because they didn't think whites would vote for him over bill, oops, I mean hillary.

[Metric System]

132. "bill, oops, I mean hillary" Nice way to demean Hillary.

[POAS]

82. Why did blacks play it safe and whites took a risk?

Seriously, you have to ask that question?

I'll offer two names to give you a clue to caution among blacks:

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Medgar Evers

When black men and women stick their necks out they have a history of having them stretched.

Now that a black man has the keys to the Oval Office and they see that many (not all) are now aligning against him with racists and do not seem to be giving him the patience they believe (rightly or wrongly) would be shown to a white President they are naturally having qualms.

[snagglepuss]

84. Spare the hyperbole that "many are siding with racists". Progressives

aren't willing to be patient because of a black president, their lack of patience is that they believe that situation in many areas is dire,that people black white, brown and beige don't have the luxury to wait for jobs, environmental action,healthcare. They're upset that while working class and middle class people are asked to be patient, the banks, financial institutes, insurance companies haven't been asked to be patient. You may not like that some progressives are not being patient but disparaging their motivations isn't helping anyone or anything.

[Fire1]

103. How in the hell do you know THAT? That sounds like some

M$M talking point, for sure. There is but a SMALL percentage of population disparity between blacks and whites in this country. Therefore, I seriously doubt that was the case.

[snagglepuss]

107. Anyone who followed the primaries knows exactly that is the case.

Please note actual polling in October 2007 showed black support helped Clinton extend lead.


snip

Among black registered Democrats overall, Clinton had a 57 percent to 33 percent lead over Obama.

That's up from 53 percent for Clinton and 36 percent for Obama in a poll carried out in April.


Among black registered Democrats overall, Clinton had a 57 percent to 33 percent lead over Obama.





http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/17/poll.blacks.democrats/index.html

[Fire1]

115. CNN! Just as I stated. M$M talking point and hardly

credible at that. You could've just posted a link to Fox news and been done with it.

[snagglepuss]

118. Hello this is a POLL not a talking point. You are obviously clueless about

the primaries.

[Fire1]

119. Poll schmoll! Do you realize the vast number of freakin polls

during this entire campaign!!!!! And of ALL the damn polls you expect me to give credibility to CNN??? POLLS DON'T MEAN SHIT and KNOWLEDGEABLE people KNOW THIS!!!! POLLS are tools, einstein!

[snagglepuss]

120. You are digging yourself further into a hole. That a majority of black voters initially

backed Hillary is historical fact.

[Fire1]

125. No hole to dig. I will never consider a "poll" to be factual. n/t

[snagglepuss]

134. You are digging a hole but you don't know it because you have not

informed yourself of the facts. Lots of information out there.

[Fire1]

143. I can't have a discussion with someone who thinks a poll is

factual information. End of conversation.

[snagglepuss]

147. Wisdom is knowing what you don't know. You clearly have no clue

of about the primaries. You really don't know, what you don't know. I'm not going to educate you about recent history that is your responsibility, the poll I linked to is simply a starting point.

[Fire1]

155. Welcome to ignore. n/t

[Metric System]

131. "hillary even used this strategy against him." BULLSHIT

[jesus_of_suburbia]

142. "BULLSHIT"

what did you expect?

[Beacool]

156. It's always the same around here.

x(

[Number23]

43. The general consensus is that black voters, who understand America better than ANYBODY,

were convinced that whites would never vote for Obama, regardless of his intellect and abilities. So many blacks threw their support behind Hillary thinking that she too was a great choice as well as a much more "safe" (mainstream) one. We are nothing if not almost painfully pragmatic.

The mili-second it looked as though whites would actually support Obama, blacks did not walk, we RAN to support this man and have not looked back. And has been stated so eloquently already in this thread, the black community has had its issues with this President and probably will the entire time that he is in office. But as a whole, even blacks who are unhappy with certain policies or things Obama has done STILL support and have this President's back. Please don't think otherwise because you would be incorrect.

[snagglepuss]

64. Well obviously black voters don't understand America better because they didn't

clue into the fact America had changed. What black voters did is play it safe and went with the pragmatic choice. Early battles were won because white voters believed in him and worked their asses off. If it wasn't their work in the early days Hillary would have won. So insinuations or outright accusations that progressives (ie whites) are racially motivated for criticizing Obama is way out of line. Most people didn't vote for him because he was black they voted for the change he promised. People had faith in him that he would be different but that faith is broken. People who still have faith in him fine but shouldn't disparage people who feel betrayed.

[Number23]

71. So you want all of us to just ignore this country's racial history because...what??

Black people do know America. We have seen what happens when someone with melanin extends "beyond our place" better than anyone and we don't pretend to NOT see it.

The idea that because blacks have had the shit beaten out of us and have ALWAYS been told that we are "less than" regardless of our intelligence and abilities for the last 400 years, and thus the whites who initially supported Obama get more credit than we do because we KNOW this country's sad racial history and didn't think it was ready for a black President is almost sickening to me.

And you can go the "progressives are disappointed" route if you'd like, but there is no poll or data that supports your theory and damn sure not amongst blacks even if all we did was "play it safe." I'm actually feeling queasy after having had this conversation with you.

[firedupdem]

75. black voters don't understand America better? Are you kidding??

We understand it so well that we realized even when he was elected that all wouldn't go smoothly and he wasn't magic. We understand so well and are so use to road blocks being placed in our way, that we don't automatically throw in the freakin towel and declare everything a failure as soon as things don't go our way.

I won't even address the rest...

[snagglepuss]

81. If you read thread you'd realize what that remark about blk voters was in response to.

In regard to your other comments. It's true that some if not many people are patient and they are perfectly in their right advocating for greater patience but not everyone agrees that patience is going to save the day. There is going to be serious disagreement because the situation in so many areas is critical and progressives believe there isn't the luxury of time. That is a big difference and big differences can't help but to create friction. I believe that people who have solid liberal/progressive track records ought not to be smeared like Hamsher is being smeared just because she does not believe that patience is what is required.

[firedupdem]

83. Hamsher is smearing herself...

aligning herself with Norquist and teabaggers is a choice she decided to make. In joining up with teabaggers, she alienated any African American with an ounce of sense. Perhaps thats what she wanted to do. Norquist and the teabaggers because she doesn't believe patience is required?....come on...give me a break. She's making a much larger statement with that alliance.

[Fire1]

104. Much to Pres. Obama's chagrin, amurka, has NOT changed

and if ANYBODY knows that, it's the Black community.

[Fire1]

105. Betrayed?! YOU betrayed your damned self with idealism

and naivety.

[mkultra]

113. wrong

not all progressives supported him. In fact, many came right off the line with twisted irrational hatred for the man. This, imho , is a sign of some kind of hidden agenda. Most of the people who feel "betrayed" never supported him to begin with.

[mkultra]

111. this same sentiment should reflect through all democrats

You may not feel the same way about him as i do because hes black but at least you could realize that you will like some things and dislike others. All in all, he is a democrat and his policies reflect that. That should garner some respect and a touch of loyalty from other so called democrats.


When people come out of the gate with irrational hatred for Obama based in twisted nonsense that looks so similar to the republican way, the only conclusion i can reach is that they are bigots.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Black folks are quite astute and are not naive.

Most don't care to throw away their votes, which is what makes them a reliable voting bloc. Barack Obama had to prove that he could win, cause at the end of the day, politics is the art of the possible, not the impossible.

As for who were his original supporters, I believe it was the youth. They are the ones that to this day, are still most supportive of him after minorities.

[kayla9170]

60. First, let me correct you on one thing........

Black is a color, not a race..the race is African-American. Now, I was a John Edwards supporter initially and I am African-American (Proud of it, by the way). I supported Edwards because he was the first candidate that acknowledged the "Two Americas" that we live in the US. One set of rules for the Rich....one for the Poor/Middle Class. I also liked Edwards stance on Health Care, the Environment and the Economy. I was a original John Edwards supporter during the 2004 Primary season and voted specifically for the Kerry/Edwards ticket, because of John Edwards.

That blows your first theory, OUT THE DOOR on African-Americans............NEXT

Now, when did I decide to support Obama.....late, late into the campaign. One, I was never fooled that he was a Progressive, as some "Progressives" are claiming. Hell, I would describe myself as Conservative on Financial Issues and Progressive on Social Issues....or in layman terms...a Moderate Independent. I supported Bill Clinton and he is STILL my favorite President but that did not have me JUMP on the Hillary train. Second theory.......BLOWN WAY OUT THE DOOR.........NEXT

I finally came around to supporting Obama, I supported no-one initially when John Edwards dropped out of the race, after LISTENING to his position and thoughts on how he would govern the country. I did not expect "Free Health Care for All" as some "Progressives" claim.....I did expect Health Care Reform.....which has been done. I did expect a increased presence in Afghanistan, as Obama promised during the campaign. I did expect a improvement on NAFTA....he is working on that, climate change....working on that and a plan to create jobs and decrease unemployment...he is working on that.

I did not expect FREE HEALTH CARE and a immediate improvement in the status quo. I knew who I voted for.....the question is did you?

For those who have not been pleased with the job President Obama has managed to do so far, against MAJOR ODDS are either critical of him for the sake of seeing their lips move or are upset when they say JUMP, the President does not say HOW HIGH. Has the President done some things that I am disappointed in him for.....YES ACTUALLY....Hope for Homeowners Program for one and its' lack of helping people that are in need of keeping their homes. Do I think he will fix this, yes....soon. Did he campaign on this issue, NO. Disappointed in this issue, YES.....willing to join Teabaggers for it.......HELL NO.

Some people need to take a good look at themselves and figure out WHY they continue to seriously criticize the President.

[firedupdem]

65. Excellent Post.

Thank You...

Disappointed in this issue, YES........willing to join Teabaggers for it.......HELL NO.

Some people need to take a good look at themselves and figure out WHY they continue to seriously criticize the President.

[mkultra]

114. +1 unexplaned hatred equals a hidden agenda.

[AspenRose]

93. And it was the race-baiting in South Carolina started by the Clintons

that changed that score real quick.

[mkultra]

110. +1 million

[Skittles]

6. you're confusing dissent with "teaming up with teabaggers"

they are not one and the same

[xchrom]

9. +1

[jillan]

20. +2

[ProSense]

12. Grover Norquist is a teabagger. n/t

[mkultra]

116. your confusing hatred with dissent

[tblue]

10. I am black and very progressive,

and I'll criticize anything I want to. Now, most black folks I know do support the President wholeheartedly. They also support Colin Powell and some even like Condi Rice. (I can't stand either of them.) I hear the Congressional Black Caucus is telling Obama he is not addressing black unemployment. Danny Glover is calling this "Bush's 3rd Term." If the "black community" is anything, it's diverse. But, historically it's voted reliably for the greater good. If some folks get frustrated with progressives who don't publicly support everything Obama does, that's a shame but that's life. Do you think they like the way Republicans treat him? I judge President Obama like I do anyone else, by the content of his character. All things being equal, yes, I'd vote for and support a black person like Obama over another candidate. But I will never ever engage in the "soft bigotry of low expectations." Obama is a brilliant, worldly, gifted man, a student of history and the Constitution. I expect a hell of a lot out of him, just as I would of any other president. I will not compromise my standards for anybody or anything, and I hope none of us ever will.

[grantcart]

22. I think the key word is "kneejerking"

It is becoming clear that some on the left are set to criticize every aspect of the President and the basic idea that he has sold out his ideals. Engaging in a specific criticism is something different that a prolonged attack against the President and announcing at this early point, for example, that you plan to support a primary challenger to the President.

[FrenchieCat]

25. For the one of you, there are 10 of us....which is why he is at 91% approval.

[firedupdem]

27. Who is asking you not to criticize? The OP speaks of people

joining up with tea baggers.

[FrenchieCat]

29. You've already admited that you never supported Obama very strongly.....

in the Black community, that makes you unlike the vast majority. So your views are just that,
but they aren't close to the norm, nor do they provide a pulse on that community.

I realize many would wish that the Black community wouldn't want to support him as strongly as they do....and I'm sure they will try to do whatever they can to divide us. But unfortunately, African-Americans aren't called the most loyal constituents of the Democratic party for nothing. And mind you, many don't even know about this primary him out, join the teabagger routine. If they get good wind of this smelly shit, then look for even stronger more steadfast support.

If they can stand by that philandering Bill Clinton,
they aren't going to fall apart on Barack Obama.

[Number23]

46. Good post.

[mkultra]

117. i dont believe your black.

"black person"?? "soft bigotry of low expectations"?

[Armstead]

11. So all progressives are aligned with teabaggers now -- Bullshit attack

One progressive blogger misguidedly allies with teabaggers, ans suddenly all of us are headed to the next Glen Beck rally now, huh?

Bullshit ten times over.

Sometimes I think "Democrats" hate liberalism as much as Republicans do.

And it is not racist to criticize a president who happens to be Black. Real racism would be to give him a condescending pass on everything because of his race.

[ProSense]

13. "One progressive blogger misguidedly allies with teabaggers"

Oh yeah, suddenly it's misguided, huh?

[Armstead]

17. Did I ever say it wasn't?

Yesd I did defend her -- but I didn't say she should have allied with Grover.

My (badly written thread) about that was more about the use of her as a strawman to use the politics of personal distraction to mischaracterize everyone who is critical of the form HCR has taken.

[tblue]

14. Beautiful! You said it better than I ever could?

[Cha]

15. Oh good..glad to see you're not marching off the cliff with hamsher.

[Beacool]

18. Hear, hear!!!!

I don't get blind support for anyone just because he/she happens to be of the same race or gender as one's own. I have yet to support or vote for a woman just because she's a woman. I look at the policies and actions of the individual in question, not their race or gender.

:(

[Fire1]

109. Supporting him because he's black is not the issue. n/t

[Forkboy]

137. If that's the case you would love Obama, as he and Hillary are virtually the same policy wise.

As it's been made extremely clear by you, however, you do not like the two equally. So there's no way you were going on policy alone. Your post here is pretty much a lie, either to us or to yourself.

[Number23]

152. Very well said

You just have to laugh at that one. I don't know who in the hell she thinks she's fooling...

[Beacool]

158. I'm not trying to fool anyone.

:shrug:

[Beacool]

157. No, I don't particularly care for the man.

So what? But I didn't support Hillary just because she was a woman. I got to know her as senator and saw in person how hard she worked, the compassion she had for those in need and what a terrific person she is.

Hillary's supporters were not the ones harassing those who didn't support her. I campaigned with young AA people who were called "uncle Tom's", "Oreos" and traitors because they didn't support Obama in the primaries. Neither were her supporters calling people in Congress threatening to run another candidate against them if they didn't support Hillary; as it happened to Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, John Lewis and Stephanie Tubbs Jones (she was pretty vocal about it too, may she rest in peace).

[CakeGrrl]

146. Oh, BS. Obama and Clinton were just about two sides of the same coin

and you HATE the man. Don't pretend that you don't write the things you've written since the primaries. You contradict yourself when you stand on a soapbox. Better not to try it.

[Skip Intro]

24. +1

[highplainsdem]

16. Yes, there's a spike in progressive criticism of Obama, but Cesca misrepresents what it is.

There's nothing "kneejerk" about people who had great hopes for the Obama administration becoming disillusioned when, time after time, they see actions that don't match the principles they thought were there, or the campaign promises.

And as for the smear that some progressives are "teaming up with teabaggers with their racist signs and questionable motives" -- that's BS. This Daily Kos diary debunks that stupid attack on Jane Hamsher:

http://wwww.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/20/817285/-On-Jane-Hamsher-and-Manufactured-Outrage-(UPDATED-X2)

Please don't try to suggest that any criticism of Obama is racist or will be interpreted by most blacks as racist. That completely ignores the steady criticism of him from Black Agenda Report (which seems to make some people here apoplectic), and the criticism he's received from the Congressional Black Caucus.

I just went to Google News and did a keyword search for

"congressional black caucus"

and these are headlines from the first page of search results:


Black Caucus calls on Obama for more help for African Americans

Black Lawmakers Pound Obama for Ignoring Race Issues

Black members of Congress growing impatient with Obama

Frustrated Congressional Black Caucus plays hardball with White House

Is Barack Obama taking black voters for granted?


I'm not going to bother quoting all of them. You can see the pattern.

[Clio the Leo]

21. "the principles THEY thought were there...."

.... exactly.

[FrenchieCat]

34. What you see is what should be; Black officials aren't supposed to

not demand what they want. And no, they will not agree with everything
this president does and says.....just like anyone else.

The difference you see, is first, the MSM would love for the Black Community would turn its back on Barack Obama, and so, just like with the few at town halls who were highlighted, the MSM always looks for conflict, especially of this nature.

so those headlines don't really mean as much as you might want them to mean.

In fact, this reminds me of when Obama was President of the Law review.
The beauty is, he finished out his term, where folks had gotten frustrated,
but to this day, you cannot find one would bad mouth him. Just because
we aren't here to perform as some would wish. It is much harder to manipulate
the Black community than people realize. That's why we were in greater number against this war,
and why we supported Bill Clinton through thick and thin.

Sure, I don't speak for all Black folks, but according to polls,
I may pretty much speak for about 90% of 'em.

I'm from Oakland. That's pretty much as Black community in East Oakland as one can get.

[Number23]

61. lol No one was "apoplectic" about that Black Agenda Report

Contrary to what some would have you believe, black people have diverse opinions, even about Obama. What I (and I think other black DUers) find so interesting, is that white DUers angry with the President can never run fast enough to post articles from black officials or just random black people who are angry or disappointed with something the President did. But these same DUers have NEVER posted anything that highlights the massive amount of support that the President gets from our community. Not that any of us need or want them to anyway.

Instead of reading news articles on the CBC maybe you could check their site(s) directly as well as the sites of individual members. I think you'll get a much different interpretation for how the CBC feels about this President when it's not through a media filter. Even when they are disagreeing or trying to nudge him, the CBC lets it be known CLEARLY that they support this President.

[AspenRose]

96. That should be an OP by itself

You are absolutely right.

If people are going to reference the negative about what they think the black community thinks regarding the president, it would be intellectually honest to reference the positive as well. But then, this would not fit a certain agenda.

I am seeing a lot of kneejerk defensiveness and indignation among white progressives here, who are somehow offended that blacks would have the nerve to raise an eyebrow about alignment with a group that a large number of blacks would categorize as being racist. It's as if they're assuming THEIR personal civil rights bonafides are being called into question (and how DARE we do that!).

It's the same kind of indignation and pooh-pooing that comes up when blacks and other people of color dare to address racism within the Democratic party. When that happens, are all whites at DU being called racist? Of course not. But there ARE racists in this party. (Just like there are xenophobes, homophobes and misogynists.)

INDIVIDUAL white progressives at DU are NOT being called out (because in *most* cases, we do not know each other well enough personally to make that kind of judgment, and I'd guess most of the time we don't care), but the reactions among blacks regarding this recent movement in general, is reasonable and (should be) perfectly understandable. Do we honestly think the black communities have developed amnesia about the posters at Teabagging parties, the dog-whistling, and viral emails? It's not like these observations are being pulled out of a vacuum or black hole just to play a race card.

This same conversation happened with many PUMAS who grew defensive post-primaries. Not all PUMAS are/were racist, but unfortunately, the most vocal ones demonstrated rather racist tendencies that represented the antithesis of the Democratic party's platform regarding race issues. And that, understandably, raised some eyebrows and questioned the motivations behind the alliances.

Questioning motivations behind such alliances does not equal a mass call-out and accusation of individual progressives as being racist. Please try to step back and not take it that way. Black folks have every right to attempt to make sense out of this and connect dots. If progressives here choose to take it personally, well, that's a choice.

[Number23]

153. Fantastic post.

As I was saying in another thread, it almost appears that many people think that people of color (the ones most affected by racism) are the only ones not allowed to actually discuss it. And you're right, the automatic knee-jerk reflexiveness and defensiveness to charges of racism exhibited by some white liberals is damn sure not new or unexpected, but it's still surprising to see.

I have no doubt that many of the posters who can't run fast enough to post an article from some black person or organization that's disappointed in the President have some serious ulterior motives. Either these people genuinely believe that for some reason, the disappointed words of a black person have more weight than the disappointed words of anyone else, or they are just actively trying to stir up some mess. Either way, it's painfully (and really hilariously) obvious that these people don't know a single black person or if they do, they have obviously never had a serious, genuine conversation with them about ANYTHING. Hard to believe that people like that still exist actually, but obviously they do...

[Blasphemer]

23. I personally don't see this

Of course, anecdotal evidence is just that but at least, around my parts, I hear criticism coming from the black community. Being black, progressive and atheist, I don't always see eye to eye with others in the community, in particular my family members, but as far as expressing disappointment in Obama, I haven't seen any alienation. They've expressed disappointment to me without my raising the issue at all.

[FrenchieCat]

26. What do they say, and where are you from?

[Blasphemer]

39. We're from NY

Most of my family is still there. They've expressed great disappointment over what they perceive as "giving into the Republicans" and "doing the same things as the Republicans". It actually surprised me to hear it since I'm generally sharply to the left of most people I know and certainly to the left of my family (religion is a big issue there). Granted, I fully expect them to vote for him again (just as I fully expect him to be re-elected) but I can't see criticism alienating them. I've made my feelings about health care reform clear and they agree. They were also against the bailout ("why give the money to banks instead of giving it to the people") to give you further perspective on their point of view. Perhaps they are more to left than I give them credit for but that's what I hear from them.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Personally, I have more problems with the disrespect, then the policy differences....

that I perceive here on this board by Obama's critics.

Some are going from "Disagree on policy differences, what's wrong with that",
to "he owned and being led by the nose" and "he's a failure" and "He doesn't care about the people,
he just wants to get rich" and "let's primary him....threaten him with that",
"let's join the Teabaggers, and scare the hell out of him" type of posts.

That shit is harsh, considering that he isn't done with his first year,
and he didn't exactly inherit a rose garden.

[kayla9170]

30. K/R.....

[burning rain]

33. If you see progressives as a problem, primary them with conservative Democrats.

Call for ad boycotts of progressive media voices, etc. Too easy.

[Skip Intro]

36. Chilling. Sounds like an attempt to tell progressives to watch what they say, to lay off Obama...

because...another group supposedly might object?

And progressives look like racists when they are critical of Obama?

So progressives should stfu protno?

Is that what's being said?

I hope I'm missing something.

[spoony]

42. Nope you pretty much got it.

It's the OP's specialty to muddy already turbulent waters by tossing in race chum. Talk about "alienating" people!

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. +10

That's exactly what angee does.

[pecwae]

88. Repeatedly.

[kayla9170]

45. The Question I would like to ask is

Before Bill Clinton did the Monica Thing.....when he signed NAFTA or cut millions of people off of welfare in a attempt to please the Republican cry to "End Welfare as We Know It" or when he did not get Health Care Signed during his first term.....were these SAME people that call themselves, so-called Progressives, criticizing Bill Clinton at this time? I bet the answer would be, not so much.

Obama, in his first year, has increased Food Stamps and Medicaid programs for the Poor, called for Free Trade Agreements to be reviewed and actually got Health Care passed by both Houses of Congress.... among other things....and they are on this President like a fly on s**t. The question is why? My answer one comes to one.....since they cannot get Obama to dance to all of there demands, they are in turn Calling Him Out at every turn. The difference between President Obama and Former President Clinton.....one is African-American and the other is Caucasian. You do the math...............

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. I know I was criticizing Bill Clinton starting in 1994

In fact, I voted for Nader in 1996 because I was so disgusted with NAFTA and Welfare "reform" and the wimpy and overly bureaucratized attempts at "health care reform."

Next.

[Blasphemer]

56. There was and still is LOTS of Clinton criticism from the left

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have heard "The best Republican President we've ever had" and not just from those on the left, from Independents and even, on occasion, non-Reagan worshiping Republicans. The internet circa 1993-1994 is not what it is today. I think you would have seen much the same sort of thing if it were. People often blame Naderites for Bush's Presidency and claim those 2.7 million votes as being a "kneejerk" reaction to Clintonian policy-making. If you subscribe to that line of thinking (I do not), then Al Gore has much more to complain about than Barack Obama, who is highly likely to be re-elected.

[Clio the Leo]

80. Some time when you're bored....

..... read what the President wrote in "Audacity" about President Clinton's welfare reforms. (If you have not already.)

Quite the complex man that Barack Obama. ;)

[JoeyT]

85. I certainly was.

I was raising hell at Clinton. He didn't listen to us either. I recall I was told pretty much the same thing I'm being told now. "STFU, ponies, united front, best we could do, etc."

FWIW I'm biracial, and I'll criticize whoever I damned well please no matter how it makes people feel to hear it.
I find it a bit strange that expecting great things from a minority and criticizing him when it fails to come to pass is somehow inherently more racist than expecting the barest minimum from them because they are a minority. I know the latter would insult me far more than the former. To each his or her own, I suppose.

Also FWIW I've yet to meet a racist progressive. It's weird how they voted for a biracial guy yet they're all somehow screaming racists the minute they criticize him. Weird how that works.

[angee_is_mad]

48. You are

but then that is probably your entire point.

[FrenchieCat]

53. I think the whole "let's primary him" is a fucking threat.

as well, as "let's join the teabaggers" mess.

So let's not react with fake ass
"Oh my, how could this be?" Routine.

Ain't nobody stupid now.

[TheKentuckian]

72. Of course it is. Lieberman, Nelson, and company are fucking serious

and can and are perfectly willing to bring down Obama and the whole party to get their way but the anger seems to go to a few frustrated bloggers.

The right is the real problem all the way around, not the left.

What policy does Blanche Lincoln or Kent Conrad push that anyone here gives a fuck about? The leftier than thou folks actually want the same things you do, for the most part.
There is no sense whatsoever pretending the centrists are okay and the left sucks ass.

[Tailormyst]

97. It's not a threat, it's how our democracy works

If people disagree with how he is doing his job, they have a right to work to replace him with someone else.

[TheKentuckian]

51. It is a precious few teaming up with teabaggers

and not many more that are calling for primaries. However, its hard to justify coddling the banks and feeding the people into a predatory monopoly.

Black or not some shit isn't supposed to fly. They can revoke my blackness if they want, I put other down anyway.

[JoeyT]

86. Hear hear.

And most importantly, those that are calling for primaries just want someone that represents them.
I don't think they're particularly bothered about the race of the candidates. They'd happily vote for a more liberal minority over a conservative white person: As shown by the fact that liberals overwhelmingly went for Obama over Clinton in the primaries.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

87. It is a few: but they are some of the loudest on this board.

When posts that call the president a "lawn jockey" are K&R'd, when posts that call him an uncle Tom, a minstrel, an oreo, etc. are not condemned--what are people supposed to think? Posts that say we need to give him the French "severance" package? Posts that argue for impeachment? Posts that argue that the racist teabaggers are just "working people". These sentiments are not common, but when you see them on a LIBERAL message board, the effect is so jarring that it tends to stay with you more than policy differences.

[pecwae]

91. All of those should have been removed.

The problem with those terms at DU are that they are still standing with regard to Powell, Rice, etc. Is it not racist to use those same terms towards black Republicans? I think it is and shouldn't be permitted in any case.

[firedupdem]

135. +1 n/t

[VMI Dem]

90. If some other unnamed minority group had said something like this it would be labeled as poutrage.

Just sayin'.

[Prism]

94. Yep, this thread is friggin hilarious

This exact article could be written about LGBTers - and was several times in the past year - and the exact same people who are pushing this article and its views were crawling over each other to be first in line to tell LGBTers to shut the hell up.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

Reading a list of posters in this thread is like reading the greatest hits of who went after LGBTers most and who, rather awesomely, always went that extra mile to make sure they found a dissenting gay voice and provided it as "the true voice of the community".

The rank hypocrisy would be stunning if it weren't so darn boring and predictable.

And that, of course, is the pedestrian nature of homophobia. When it happens to us? Make sure to give the boot an extra push. When it happens to them? Oh my word, it's the worst thing that ever was.

Zzzz.

[Fire1]

129. Threats to primary or impeach a sitting democratic

president is hardly "poutrage," imo.

[Number23]

154. Girl, just ignore the folks trying to drag this off topic. Everyone else did.

[Tailormyst]

95. Who is "aligning with teabaggers" ?

Do you mean literally working together or just both sides being critical of the President?

[Balderdash]

98. Um...WTF!?

First, I have no use for "Teabaggers". Second, as a Lesbian/Democrat I have a whole host of things I'm deeply displeased about and you can bet your effin' ass that my President will hear about it. I'm appalled and disturbed that we're being told to shut up and sit down lest we piss off the black folks. Fuck that noise! I don't care what color or gender my President is, he/she/it will always hear from me, good, bad or indifferent. We all voted for this President and we all should always be willing to tell him what's on our minds, he works for us damn it!

To me this whole thing is racist.

[brentspeak]

99. Now THIS is flamebait

Progressives who blast Obama's HRC efforts are almost equivalent to racist teabaggers, according to the half-a$$ed blog piece.

[Fire1]

112. HRC is Hilliary Rodham Clinton. HCR is health care reform.

Anything is flamebait when it's uncomfortable. This is hardly considered half assed and it's not a "blog" peice. It's a original post.

[Balderdash]

124. Yeah, an original racist piece...

BTW what the hell does Hillary have to do with this?

[Fire1]

126. Re-read your own post and go from there. n/t

[Balderdash]

128. You must have reading comprehension problems... nt

[Fire1]

130. "Progressives who blast HRC efforts..." THIS is what YOU

posted. What are HRC efforts???????> On THIS board, HRC stands for Hillary Rodham Clinton!! DAMN!!

[Balderdash]

133. HRC stands for Health Care Reform. SHIT!

[Fire1]

139. H = HEALTH C= CARE R-= REFORM. You must be dyslexic.

[Balderdash]

136. I DIDN'T POST MAKE THAT POST!

Loud enough for you? Plus, it was pretty clear that the person who did make the post meant HCR.

[Fire1]

140. Nothing is "pretty clear" lately. My apologies. n/t

[KakistocracyHater]

159. HRC......HCR I get them confused too much, I have to use the long version

Health Care.....I want the entire Left leadership to always put Public Option/Medicare for All on EVERY bit of legislation that comes their way.

[Jamastiene]

100. I can't see teaming up with racists and won't be doing that.

Some of us DO still have legitimate criticism of parts of the HCR bill, especially the Senate version.

And we DO wish he had fought harder or at least been straight up with us about the public option. Instead of denying campaigning on it, he could have just said, the idea was basically DOA because of not enough support in Congress. That would have meant an awful lot to a lot of us.

[Fire1]

122. A horse by any other name is still a horse. To paraphrase

James Courville, as long as it serves the same purpose, who cares what it's called.

[Balderdash]

138. I can guarantee that this will backfire. Trust me. nt

[newtothegame]

144. We alienate blacks by legislating that they're capable of nothing in this world without having...

their hand held. THAT is how you alienate an entire race.

[freddie mertz]

149. I'm trying to sort this out.

I get that African-Americans are supportive of the president, and are understandably on guard against racially-tinged criticism.

How we get from there to calling progressive critiques "knee-jerk," that I do not understand so well.

Criticisms will rise or fall on their merit.

As one who is highly resistant to any association with right wingers and "tea-baggers," and has been revolted by their racist tactics, I certainly agree that such affiliations as might be taking pace (I assume this is abut Hamsher-Norquist, are there any others?) are ill-advised, at best.

But there seems to be a subtext here, more evident among some of the replies, that almost ANY criticism of the man and/or his policies must in some way either be racist, or runs the risk of being twisted into the service OF racist agendas.

If that is the argument, I don't think it is supported by any facts.

Am I missing something?

[Phx_Dem]

150. I stand with AAs; extreme pride and holding the Pres in high esteem.