Lively "debate" in Venezuelan parliament today

[rabs]

(One minute video of opposition deputy "debating" chavista deputy. It was being shown nationally.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciShOPX8Ee4

[joshcryer]

1. I wonder what he said to warrent a punch like that.

http://news.in.msn.com/international/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4910063

[bemildred]

4. Former members of ruling elites tend to be touchy about physical contact.

Especially from those they still consider their inferiors. Consider Egypt and all the blather about "humiliating" Mubarak. The same mindset at work here. You can see it in the endless degraded name-calling used against Chavez and his supporters and Castro, and in certain aspects of US foreign policy towards the "less developed" world, although the US foreign policy wonks are generally more sophisticated about it.

Basically, it's about social class and pretensions to social class (IMHO). It's not really that hard to understand either: to have social classes, you have to have conventions and taboos and rituals to demonstrate and enforce the otherwise arbitrary distinctions you want to set up, and you can always spot class-ridden societies by the presence of such things.

[ChangoLoa]

5. How do you know who is member of the "ruling elite" in the images you saw??

Phrenology?

(I think you're an intelligent person so I will assume you don't distinguish opposition/ chavista deputies with a ruling elite/ working class identification)

[bemildred]

6. Hi kid, how are you?

:hi:

[ChangoLoa]

8. Fine, Mister, thanks!

Is february weather nice in California?

[bemildred]

9. Clear and cold, my favorite hiking weather.

How is it where you are?

[ChangoLoa]

11. As usual :)

I'd say 25-30°... just a bit cloudy.

Tropical :hi:

[joshcryer]

16. Marquina was approached, turned around, and then shoved and finally punched on the arm.

He was laughing the whole time.

He said something but perhaps his smiling / laughing was what really prompted it.

[bemildred]

17. Perhaps he even wanted to "prompt" it?

They seem to have attracted a crowd up there. Very embarassing all around.

[joshcryer]

18. Yes he wasn't supposed to approach the podium, but the reaction was a bit childish.

I think you have to be asked to approach or get permission and I didn't get that from the video.

[bemildred]

19. OK.

You can go different ways with this one. The opposition will get nothing be sitting silently, it's true, so has reason to be provocative. The ruling party could show a bit more class, brawling looks bad. Class conflict does not become a good thing because you happen to think you are on the winning side.

It isn't going to be a very productive session unless they learn better methods. One thinks of the scorched earth politics that has done so much harm here in the USA. The opposition ought to do a better job of recognizing the legitimacy of the Chavez government. The Chavez government ought to do a better job of recognizing the legitimacy of the opposition as representatives of the people who elect them too. They would both be better off. Venezuela divided will struggle and flail. Venezuela unified has great resources at it's disposal.

Although I often do not agree with President Obama's policies, I much admire his constant refusal to get down in the mud with the Republican noise machine, and if I have any criticism to make of Mr Chavez, it is his tendency to do the opposite.

[ChangoLoa]

2. Hmm?

The chavista deputy is the one who goes upstairs (0:55) in order to throw out the opposition deputy who was complaining to the president of the Assembly.

Doesn't he start the fight?

Here's the whole video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5fGOoad9-g

[ChangoLoa]

3. Clearer images

4:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCyAwjc7k1o

[rabs]

20. Gracias for the longer (and clearer) link

I read yesterday in the Ven. media that Marquina was asked to leave the speaker's podium because his time had expired, but that the peanut gallery (chavistas) had hooted and jeered during the time Marquina had tried to speak. So that is why he wanted more time, which was denied -- "sientese, sientese" (sit down, sit down) -- as the leader of the Assembly tells him.

Anyway, I would really like to see such an episode in the U.S. Senate with Demos and repugs duking it out :rofl:

Cool to hear the Ven. accent again. I remember when I worked in Ven. that three people would have a "discussion" at the top of their voices, all speaking at the same time !!! Somehow they understood each other :-)

[ChangoLoa]

24. No hay de que...

You know, if we didn't interrupt each other so much, we would need half the amount of time to make the same things :)

Btw, I found this for you:
http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve/Noticias/Ciudadanos-evaluan-comparecencia-de-ministros.aspx

[Bacchus39]

7. sure looks that way doesn't it. he throws the first punch too

but as usual, the Chavistas blame the opposition.

[ChangoLoa]

10. They could just let it pass. It was a meaningless childish skirmish...

It's the only thing we've heard about yesterday's 7 hour debate. All we've heard on public TV is how opposition deputies turned violent in the Parliament. Nothing about the debate. The thing is when people see the images they get confused about the headline..


Grey cat turns violent

[Bacchus39]

12. yeah, the second video you posted was about the "opposition violence"

and I assume you are correct that the grey haired guy who was talking to the chair was an opposition party member and the guy who walked up was a chavista, the commentary in the video didn't jibe with the images.

[ChangoLoa]

13. Indeed, the gray haired guy is the opposition deputy A. Marquina.

Let's see how venanalysis presents the facts.

[joshcryer]

15. I saw that which is why it is peculiar why the poster who responded to me...

...seems to think the minority opposition started punching.

He did say something, probably something touchy, but I wonder what it must have been.

[naaman fletcher]

23. It's not peculiar at all.

Chavez is always right, his opponents are always wrong.

[bemildred]

14. Venezuelan legislators trade blows

Some more details. One hopes that eventually these two sides will figure out that there is more advantage in working together than engaging in perpetual bickering.

---

The fist-fight on Thursday began after Socialist party legislator Henry Ventura tried to remove an opposition member, Alfonso Marquina, from the speaker's podium.

The pair were soon joined by several other legislators and parliamentary employees who shoved and punched one another for several minutes.

---

The brawl was broadcast live on all Venezuela's television and radio stations via an obligatory link-up system used frequently by Chavez to air his long speeches to the nation.

The broadcast was pulled abruptly from most networks after the violence started.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/02/201121143617546180.html

[CJvR]

21. Isn't...

...calling them legislators a bit excessive?
Since the outgoing gang granted Chaves all their powers the current parliment is more like a vell payed social club.

[bemildred]

22. Well, it seems like the correct title, whether they deserve it would be opinion.

I tend to worry more about being polite and correct than inserting my opinions at every opportunity.