Unrest rocks Ecuador as troops take airport

[Judi Lynn]

Unrest rocks Ecuador as troops take airport
8 mins ago
Hugh Bronstein

Unrest erupted in Ecuador on Thursday with soldiers taking control of the main airport, police protesting in the streets and looting in the capital while President Rafael Correa looked at dissolving a deadlocked Congress.

In confused and chaotic scenes in Quito, scores of soldiers swarmed over the landing strip of the international airport, which was closed to flights. Witnesses said there was looting in Quito and in the city of Guayaquil, and that many workers and school students were being sent home. Elsewhere in Quito, uniformed police burnt tires in protest at a proposal to cut their bonuses.

The OPEC-member country of 14 million people has a long history of political instability. Street protests toppled three presidents during economic turmoil in the decade before Correa took power.

Members of Correa's own left-wing party are blocking legislative proposals aimed at cutting state costs, prompting him to mull disbanding Congress, a move that would let him rule by decree until new elections, one of his ministers said. Armed forces' head Ernesto Gonzalez said troops remained loyal to Correa. "We are in a state of law. We are loyal to the maximum authority, which is the president," he told reporters.

More:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100930/tpl-uk-ecuador-correa-9562ed3.html

[Judi Lynn]

1. Ecuador military: troops are under Correa's control

Ecuador military: troops are under Correa's control
QUITO, Sept 30 | Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:09pm EDT

Reuters) - Ecuador's top military commander said on Thursday that soldiers in the South American country remained loyal to President Rafael Correa.

Separately, Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said there had been no popular uprising, but that a demonstration by police was unacceptable and intolerable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN3028846920100930

[EFerrari]

2. Mark is calling on Obama not to give any coup attempt the nod.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9230420

[Judi Lynn]

16. Thanks for posting that thread link. Very helpful. n/t

[Billy Burnett]

3. Anyone heard from Mika? He is there.

He told me he was going to return to Miami on Sunday evening.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

5. No but if you raise him, please let us know.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Thanks, hoping like hell for Mika to be safe. n/t

[EFerrari]

4. Bonus cuts is disinfo --

Miguel Carvajal, the minister for interior security, said there was no threat to salaries or benefits. He blamed the reports of the benefit cuts on a massive disinformation campaign.

"He who says that is lying," Carvajal said.

"We call on the citizens. We call on the armed forces. We call on other governments to defend our democratic institutions," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/09/30/ecuador.violence/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[Judi Lynn]

19. It really figures, doesn't it? Jeez. Thank gods for our "free press," huh? n/t

[EFerrari]

25. It's just like the Gucci protesters in Venezuela, isn't it?

The spin was already to go.

[Judi Lynn]

29. It's all arranged so well in advance, like those stupid Orange and Rose "revolutions."

Just like that slimy Tea Party spontaneous manifestation of natural political opposition.

They show up almost prefabricated. Probably with weapons, uniforms, and protest signs, along with the MONEY in big cardboard boxes.

Loved those clever little white hands the Gucci mall brats sported, all dressed so appropriately in their preppie demonstration clothes.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/3079/3226734073_0efb447bed.jpg http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com.nyud.net:8090/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040317/040317_spainribbons_hands_bcol12p.grid-4x2.jpg

http://media3.washingtonpost.com.nyud.net:8090/wp-srv/photo/gallery/100129/GAL-10Jan29-3665/media/PHO-10Jan29-201739.jpg

[naaman fletcher]

37. whats your point?

"Loved those clever little white hands the Gucci mall brats sported, all dressed so appropriately in their preppie demonstration clothes."

You can judge the motivations and beliefs of perfect strangers by looking at a picture of them?

[struggle4progress]

60. The "white hand" is a well-known rightist death squad threat

I provide links below exhibiting this for Guatemala, Brazil, and El Salvador. So if a bunch of folks in Ecuador are waving White Hands in conjunction with an attempted assassination of the President, there's a natural interpretation of their meaning

Guatemala: Democracy and Human Rights
(June 1997)
... In a context of tension <circa 1966> resulting from the emergence of small guerrilla groups that kidnapped Government officials and politicians, the army took advantage of its autonomy to launch two fateful initiatives. One was a Cold War counter-insurgency campaign, advised and financed by the United States, that killed thousands of peasants in an effort to end civilian support for several hundred guerrillas. The other was the formation of death squads such as Mano Blanca (White Hand) in the cities, openly sponsored by MLN leader Mario Sandoval Alarcón, and widely believed to be covertly organized by the armed forces ... http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/ins/guatemala_demochumrts_97.html

Brazil: Police Harassment Of Transvestites, Death Threats Against Human Rights Defender ...
05/01/2002 ...
... An unidentified person phoned the station with a message for Mr. Dantas. He had better stop defending transvestites, it threatened: if not, "White Hand" might be back. "White Hand" was a death squad active in Natal, the capital of Rio Grande do Norte, some time ago. They targeted homosexuals, transvestites, Blacks and poor people. Often linked to Neo-Nazi groups, death squads are a constant danger in Brazil ... http://iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/article/takeaction/globalactionalerts/658.html

8-27-04 Trial Transcript
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
HON. OLIVER W. WANGER
J. DOE, Plaintiff,
vs.
ALVARO RAFAEL SARAVIA; and DOES 1-10, inclusive, Defendants.
No. CIV-F-03-6249 OWW ...
A. There are a number of death threats against Archbishop
10 Romero. This one is chosen for -- I chose this for a
11 particular reason. It -- when it shows the swastika -- and by
12 the way, that is not an uncommon symbol.
13 I was talking about symbols that are used and if I
14 can say just one thing about that, the death squads, some of
15 them were -- had been educated in the symbolism of terror.
16 This is quite important.
17 So, for example, if you killed somebody and that you
18 were killing them because they were a land reform proponent,
19 you would often find that person with dirt and leaves stuffed
20 in his mouth because the symbol was that this was about land.
Page 80
8-27-04 Trial Transcript
21 If you were trying to build up a sense of terror, you
22 might use a Nazi symbol. You might use a white hand ...
<pdf file:> http://www.haguejusticeportal.net/Docs/NLP/US/Romero_Trial_Transcript_8_27_04_5_4.pdf

[naaman fletcher]

63. interesting,

I didn't know that, thank you.

[Judi Lynn]

75. Of course you can't learn anything from what you see, can you? It has no meaning.

Probably we should all have ourselves blinded, since information gathered visually is worthless.

[Judi Lynn]

74. Something in your link I missed the 1st time I read it earlier:

But that was not clear everywhere. A spokesman for government-run television said police were trying to cut the station's power supply. As the station's anchors reported the news, cameras showed people trying to enter the studio by pushing on a locked glass door. A few minutes later, the camera shot cut to a different studio, and a station manager said protesters had broken into the studio and shattered windows in the building.

Can't believe I shot right past this part.

It happened in Caracas when the mayor then, Alfredo Pena, had his police break in and tear up the community TV Katia station, and radio stations.

Of course we remember so well the recent multiple assaults and destruction of Honduran radio and tv stations which were anti-coup, even the assassination of the head of the tv station.

Just had to post that important paragraph from your link. The videos are well worth time seeing too, particularly the 1st one, which is longer, more complete.

[drdtroit]

6. En Quito

I am in Quito right now.
Started out as another beautiful day, was having desayuno en la Mariscal. Suddenly all the businesses began closing and shuttering the windows.
Some friends of mine saw me walking as they were driving by and told me to get back to my apartment because the police were on strike.
Haven't seen any violence but there are no busses running, all of the schools are closed and the airports in the country are closed.
I have a concert tonight near the Ejido and it has not been cancelled so I don't really think this a coup, just the police on strike, but that makes things dangerous as the ladrones have free reign.
The head of the military, Ernesto Gonzalez was just on TV and they have put their support firmly behind Correa.
So for all of the corporatists drooling over a possible coup, fuggedahboutit ...

[EFerrari]

7. Stay safe. I hope the people kick their @sses.

TeleSur is barely up from traffic. The police strike meme has been widely disseminated up here, too.

[drdtroit]

8. Grácias!

[EFerrari]

9. If things stay quiet for you, drdtroit, maybe you can post

updates for us. The more boring, the better. :)

[drdtroit]

47. Buenos Dias todos ...

Well, we did the concert last night and some people from the ministry were in attendance and thanked us for going on in the face of adversity.
Correa as you know was rescued from the kidnappers and today things seem to be back to normal, pero es una dia muy caliente!
A large police presence on the streets but I notice the people are all looking at them suspiciously.
All of the airports are open and life seems to be back to normal, except the Teatro Sucre where I am Artist in Residence has suspended all functions.
It actually got pretty calm here yesterday after 4pm. and it was a kind of an eery tranquility.
Anyway, out and about today and will check in later with any updates I can forward.
Arriba Ecuador!!!!!!!

[Judi Lynn]

48. Don't blame the citizens for giving the cops a wide berth in the streets. Wow.

So good to hear it's calm in your part of town. There was no way of knowing from the way it started just how far, and how long this could go.

Last bit of information any of our sources had to say is that two police and one civilian have been killed.

Please don't hesitate to share anything you might feel is appropriate as it developes. You've got a very interested audience here!

Take real care today.

Thanks.

[EFerrari]

53. Thanks for the update.

And good to hear that the show went on.

We did a show almost next door to the 101 California shootings. That was a weird night for comedy, for sure.

Andale and please do update us if you can.

[Puglover]

12. Be safe.

The Mariscal is wonderful but its good to be streetsmart. Pickpockets might be emboldened. Have an empanada for me!

[Judi Lynn]

20. drdetroit, wow. Please post when you get time. You've got DU'ers' whole attention.Stay safe.n/t

[EFerrari]

10. "What they did to Allende, they are trying to do here." -- heard on Telesur.

No shit.

[naaman fletcher]

11. Who said it?

Someone with knowledge or a random Joe?

[Billy Burnett]

13. Some people say.

Is that enough for you? (It is - if you believe Cubanet's "reports" dittoed by AI, HRW, and RSF.)


All the best.

[Judi Lynn]

76. Sad! Might as well be El Nuevo Herald where they get their hot information. n/t

[rabs]

14. Shades of Allende -- (Correa)

Yo no estoy dispuesto a negociar, yo salgo de aquí como Presidente o como cadáver yo no voy a perder mi dignidad”, dijo el jefe de Estado al reiterar que la manifestación fue motivada por sectores de la oposición política y acusó al “gutierrismo” e infiltrados que no pertenecen a la Policía.

"I am not disposed to negotiate, I leave here as president or as a cadaver, I am not going to lose my dignity," said the head of state in reiterating that the demonstration was motivated by opposition political sectors and he accused "gutierrismo" and infiltrated (persons) who do not belong to the police.

-----------------------

Just went to check out the Ecuadoran media. Correa is a police hospital but not entirely clear yet whether he is a hostage but it appears so.

There is a crowd of Correa supporters outside but it they have been driven away with tear gas.

Will keep an eye on Quito media and will post as warranted.

[Judi Lynn]

22. It's a very old pattern, isn't it? Should be able to recognize it blindfolded, I'll bet.

Remember, in Caracas, people were yelling into the cameras the CIA was responsible for their dirty coup attempt on Hugo Chavez. All those dirty moves are so familiar by now.

Thank you.

[flamingdem]

28. Same old, same old, seems like there was a plan looking for an opportunity nt

[Judi Lynn]

77. You're so right. Timing is so important since they leaped into acttion a couple of days

after he had knee surgery and was walking with a crutch, and couldn't POSSIBLY run for his life.

Yes, indeed, that plan was ready to go.

[rabs]

15. Correa in hospital

Manifestó sentirse secuestrado en el Hospital, pues en los alrededores una turba conmocionada está vigilante de la casa de salud y han actuado de forma atentatoria contra civiles y ciudadanos que se han acercado al sitio a respaldar al Presidente y a la democracia.

Correa says he feels kidnapped in the hospital, because in the vicinity there is a angry mob keeping vigilance over the hospital and they have attacked civilians and citizens who have shown up to support the president and democracy.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Thanks, rabs. not so great, is it? Very helpful information. n/t

[rabs]

23. UNASUR meeting in the next few hours.

Have you seen any reaction out of Hillary?


“No van a poder con la oleada de todo un pueblo”, dijo, anunciando además el apoyo de distintos países del mundo al régimen democrático, tales como Rodríguez Zapatero, Presidente de España; Juan Manuel Santos de Colombia; Alan García de Perú; Cristina Fernández de Argentina, entre otros.

Correa says he has received support from Zapatero of Spain, JM Santos, Alan Garcia, Cristina, among others.

[rabs]

24. I think this coup attempt will fail

Military high command at a press conference express support for Correa.

El jefe del Comando Conjunto de las Fuerzas Armadas Ecuatorianas, Ernesto González y el alto mando de militar manifestaron su respeto al estado de derecho e invitaron a los uniformados sublevados a deponer su actitud beligerante. “Las Fuerzas Armadas, como lo determina la Constitución, son una institución de protección de los derechos, de las garantías, de las libertades de los ciudadanos ecuatorianos, por eso respetamos el estado de derecho. Somos una institución organizada, jerarquizada, subordinada al interés nacional y también subordinada a la autoridad legal, legítimamente constituida y como máxima autoridad de las Fuerzas Armadas como es el presidente de la República”, dijo González.

The head of the armed forces and the high command are with Correa and they asked the rebellion leaders to give it up. The military chiefs say they recognize Correa as the maximum authority of Ecuador.


Thousands have gathered in the Plaza de Independencia in the heart of Quito to support
Correa.

Pro-Correa demonstrations all over the country tonight in the provinces of Loja, Pichincha, Pastaza Imbabur, Chimborazo and other provinces.

Grupos de las provincias de Loja, Pichincha, Pastaza, Imbabura, Chimborazo y otras provincias se hallan manifestando a favor de la democracia./ CY Prensa

[Judi Lynn]

30. Wonderful. Haven't heard that anywhere else yet. So good to hear they are making shows of support

around Ecuador! Hope they've told their President about it right away. That should encourage him so much right now.

[rabs]

21. Correa calls it a coup attempt

Cuando salga de aquí señores, con todo gusto nos comunicamos para escuchar los problemas de la Policía, mientras siga esta medida de hecho, no hay nada que dialogar y nada que acordar, y ni se les ocurra traerme algo para firmar”, puntualizó.

El presidente ecuatoriano reprochó el intento de golpe de Estado y aseguró que el Gobierno mantiene el respaldo popular. “Aquí esta su Presidente, aquí estamos todos juntos y vamos a vencer compatriotas”, señaló.

Correa says that when he leaves the hospital where he has been since this morning, the complaints of the police will be heard, but as long as the situation persists, there is nothing to talk about and nothing to agree on, and that they not even thinkf taking him something to sign.

He criticized the "attempted coup 'd atat" and says the government has the support of the people. "Here is your president, we are here together and we will overcome, compatriots."

[rabs]

26. Correa safe

El mandatario ecuatoriano, Rafael Correa, logró ser rescatado luego de permanecer secuestrado, por cerca de doce horas, por un grupo de manifestantes de la policía nacional quienes previamente se habían tomado las instalaciones del Regimiento Quito Nro.1 para reclamar por la supuesta eliminación de sus compensaciones económicas.
Luego de un fuerte enfrentamiento entre miembros del Grupo de Fuerzas Especiales del Ejército y policías manifestantes, el jefe de Estado logró ser evacuado, cerca de las 21:30 y se dirigió hacia el Palacio de Gobierno a donde llegó a las 21:35.

» Leer todo

Troops rescued him tonight at 21:30 after he was held hostage for nearly 12 hours. Correa was taken to the presidential palace where he arrived five minutes later. (No word yet on whether he will speak to the nation.)

Ecuadoran army Special Forces clashed with rebellious police at the police hospital where Correa was being held hostage.

Red Cross reporting at least 51 people were hurt in previous clashes.

[EFerrari]

27. He talked to the people for a long time.

There are people as far as you can see, looking at the Telesur footage. :wow:

[Judi Lynn]

31. Reminds one of the crowds of people who crowded around Miraflores, too.

Hope there will be good photos later in the day, somehow. It would be great to see them.

I don't look for our corporate media to cover this very well, continuing the news blackout.

[EFerrari]

32. The BBC is doing a hatchet job on Correa!

I'm watching a report rerun from earlier and they are totally discounting that this was anything but a protest that got out of hand. :wow:

The anchor asked three times in a pointed way if Correa had any evidence at all that Gutierrez was involved and all three reporters said no. No one mentioned that Gutierrez's mouth piece shut down TV Ecuador.

They described him as arrogant and as definite as Chavez on his policy positions (ruh roh) and all but said he brought it on himself.

It was appalling.

[bherrera]

33. Consensus in Europe > Labor unrest handled badly by Correa

It is not a "hatchet job". It was labor unrest by police protesting the removal of benefits, and Correa reacted the wrong way. All the news media agrees with the analysis of the events. I woke up very early, was watching when they were having this situation, and the interview with the police representative, and this was not a coup. This was Correa's creation. The man should be less juvenile.

[roody]

34. Who conceded that?

[Downwinder]

36. It is alright for police to protest with guns? Get serious. n/t

[bherrera]

40. Police carry guns

I suppose you may be surprised, but police do carry guns all the time. It is part of their equipment. I am serious. This is going to another case where the radical left tries to invent a coup and an attack by "USA CIA". It was a labor problem, and Correa made it worse.

[Downwinder]

43. Wait until the missile and drone operators protest. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

78. Oh, jeez, Downwinder. Don't put any thoughts in their heads! Duck! n/t

[Judi Lynn]

42. As if heavy machine gun fire is acceptable as an expression of protest.

Good gawd almighty.

Takes all kinds, apparently.

[bherrera]

54. Of course it's not acceptable

But things became really bad only after Correa went to the hospital, correct? In other words, it seems Correa's actions were a strategic mistake, unless he wanted to create the riot to have the ability to arrest the police. This I doubt, I think he was behaving like a typical Latin American politician with impulsive behavior, and the Yo mando aqui problem.

[Judi Lynn]

57. You owe it to your self respect to spend some of your valuable time trying to learn about the event.

That's what the sensible DU'ers have to do, as pedestrian as it is.

He was taken there by the police because he had had knee surgery only a couple of days ago, was using a crutch, was unable to walk very well, got smacked around in the crowd by these assholes, his ankle was injured, and a tear gas cannister exploded a very short distance from his face, and he was gassed but good. His body guards TOOK him to the hospital.

I trust they knew what they were doing when they believed he needed a doctor to help him.

You need to READ, for chrissakes, the material available instead of launching into bloviation first without the facts. You shouldn't have to need reminding how important it is to your credibility.

[Zorro]

68. And what are your qualifications that give evidence of your expertise on LatAm subjects??

Do you speak Spanish? No.

Have you ever been to Ecuador (or South America)? No.

Did you take a Geography class once? Well, maybe. And you've probably been to a Taco Bell. And you read a lot of stuff on the Internet.

Guess that's enough to confirm your LatAm social, cultural, and political expertise, and allows you to routinely scold and belittle posters that don't have your high level of qualifications.

[EFerrari]

70. Judy Lynn can read and think which are the qualifications anyone needs

and more than some posters to this forum seem to have.

[Zorro]

71. Hey, I can read and think, too

and I just got back from eating lunch at a Mexican restaurant.

Since that obviously makes my qualifications superior to hers, are you OK with me scolding and belittling posters like she does?

[EFerrari]

38. I always appreciate hearing what the right wing press in Spain is saying.

lol

[Judi Lynn]

39. They've made such great contributions to the world. n/t

[bherrera]

41. It was not the right wing press

it was everybody. I went to lunch today, and we were watching this little film of Correa insulting the police. Maybe you guys can not understand the Spanish language, but in Spain we can. And we can see this was a labor strike, which Correa made worse with a very bad move.

Maybe if you are so far to the left that Marx and Stalin are your friends, then I can see why you think it was "right wing press". Ha ha.

[drdtroit]

49. But you are not here en Quito, but I am.

Nobody here believes this was about a "labor dispute".
You insult the intelligence of the population of Quito.

[EFerrari]

51. drdtroit -- good to see you.

I hope you post about yesterday. The footage on Telesur was amazing but I'd love to get your viewpoint.

[EFerrari]

50. LOL. Give my best to the Academy and also my condolences

for their loss of the New World.

:)

[Judi Lynn]

35. They've been in there all the way on the right-wing view of everything Latin American in recent year

and it's an ugly thing to see.

I think a lot of us used to imagine the U.K. was far more liberal than our "government," but you'd never know it since Thatcher, of course. I wonder if I ever had the right "fix" on them, after all.

This is so disappointing.

I saw some article overnight by the BBC which made me sick. It carried the same tone you describe seeing in the newcast.

[bherrera]

44. As they say, you make sausage from grass cuttings

There is no reasonable information which we can see in Europe, anywhere, which says this was but a labor problem which escalated when the president of Ecuador made a serious mistake.

[EFerrari]

52. They also say, aqui hay gato encerrado and there is plenty of information

that shows the issue of restructuring the national police's pay was manipulated from beginning to end.

No union in its right mind tries to assassinate a president because they are losing a negotiation.

[drdtroit]

59. Because you're in Europe,

Like when the people here voted on rewriting the constitution 2 years ago.
All of the corporate owned MSM in the US and Europe were saying it was going to be too close to call.
It passed 92-8%. Wake up to what you are being fed.

[bherrera]

66. I saw the statements on television

But what "I am fed" was the direct transmission of people giving speeches. I saw the TV, and I understand the Spanish words. This is not "corporate owned MSM" issue, it is that some information does not fit your beliefs, and you discard it.

[L Cutter]

61. Have you seen these?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/sep/30/ecuador-protest-riot-state-of-emergency

[EFerrari]

62. I hadn't seen those. Thanks, L. Cutter and welcome to DU. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

45. This RealNews video says the rebel cops took over pro-Correa radio & tv stations.

It would appear to confirm this was something a little more planned than some spontaneous uprising by the cops in response to grievances concerning the new austerity program:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5684&updaterx=2010-10-01+11%3A57%3A22

[Downwinder]

46. It would seem that bonuses have become like tips.

No longer a gratuity.

[bherrera]

56. you must be an American

In many countries, benefits and bonuses are expected. In Spain, and I am sure in Ecuador, labor contracts can include the aguinaldo (Christmas bonus). You Americans call it that way, in other countries, it is like the law of gravity, you try to repeal this, and the workers will strike and they will be right to do it. We also have the vacation bonus, and the birth of the child bonus, and other things you guys never knew about. The number of benefits is very big, and this is why the Spanish government is trying to reduce them, and we had the strike. People feel they fought during many years of strikes and negotiations, and they voted a socialist government to have those benefits, and they get very mad if the government tries to cut those.

Now, you know this guy Correa is a populist, claims to be a socialist, and makes a lot of noise about it. In this tragic case, the police are the workers. Yes sir, you may try to demonize those guys, but they are the working class. And the government is the employer. The boss. The guys in the police think about this in a very simple way, the boss cuts their good benefits, they strike. The boss comes to see a mob of workers, to tell them forget about it, guys, your benefits are cut, and that is the end of the story, and of course they want to throw things. And if the guys screams from the window "Kill me", and other things to inflame the strikers, then of course they will throw very large things his way, and even small things called bullets.

What you see here is an example of the reason why our leaders in Spain did not say anything, and were hiding when the strike happened here, they are wiser.

[bherrera]

55. It was not planned

I saw the interview with the young woman who represented the strike policemen in the TV station, she explained they had forced the doors to the TV station because the government was lying to the people, and said it was NOT a coup (golpe de estado), and they wanted to ensure the country heard their version: they were only striking because the president had taken away their benefits, and they were expecting the president to change his mind. She was very nervous, and explained she was not a leader, but she was chosen because she was in the police and she was studying to be a lawyer.

You see, there is a propaganda movement by some people (and this includes you), to repeat the government position. The truth makes Mr Correa look bad, because he acted in a way which re-inforced the policemen to behave badly. These police are typical guys on strike, they have a tendency to get mad, throw stones, and do some violence. But if you mix these guys with the additional flavor of the right wing guys who wanted to take advantage of the situation, and Correa behavior like a teenager, then the final result is this tragedy, with bullets going everywhere, mobs looting the stores, burning things, and the country suffering because now the tourists will not go there. It was very stupid, and the government tries to cover it with this disinformation about a "coup".

[EFerrari]

58. Bullshit. The siezing of the president and his attempted murder

is not a labor dispute and no insult that you can level at the president can make it one.

[bherrera]

64. it was a labor dispute, Correa escalated it

I think it was a simple labor dispute, police striking to keep benefits the government can't pay. Many countries are reducing benefits, including here in Spain (I already explained this), and the working class is mad. In Ecuador, the government is reducing benefits and this makes the workers mad. I read in the paper other sectors are very upset, and Correa will continue to see more strikes.

When the violence increased, thousands of hoodlums went to stores and looted, and there was a lot of confusion. Some persons decided this was a good time to try to get Correa. Correa was inside the hospital, surrounded by armed police, they had no leaders, because they had more police than Correa guards.

The problem they try to hide is the foolishness of Correa, who went to the hospital to tell the strikers to forget the old benefits. I think workers today should understand some benefits are excessive, but this is a very delicate thing. Presidents should not go to the working class and tell them to go to hell, they expect a socialist president to be helping them, not reducing benefits.

[EFerrari]

65. Correa didn't tell the working class to go to hell.

He told them they had been misinformed and to read the legislation.

Who misinformed these people about the restructuring and why? Who stood to benefit from unrest, hmm?

And when Correa got to the hospital, the police officials that detained him there had the papelaje ready for him to sign. How did that happen? Someone must be a very fast typist.

[bherrera]

67. And why did he go to the hospital?

Question for you: What do you think of a socialist president who cuts the benefits and then goes inside a place full of strikers to tell them there can be no change, they are going to have to live with it? I saw on TV what he was saying, and he did make a serious mistake with his words. And the act with the taking off the tie and asking to be shot was stupid.

[EFerrari]

69. You haven't read the law either. That is misinformation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=42266&mesg_id=42274

And Correa said that every one of the delegates he met with in private from the national police had not read the bill.

[bherrera]

72. But this is government references you show

The two references you provide are by Correa, and by his minister. The ambassador of Ecuador in Venezuela said it was a labor problem. I saw the discussions in the TV, including the things Correa said when he was in the hospital window, and the two things do not agree. He did not say "Guys, you have it wrong, there is no change in the benefits". He said "kill me, butI am not going to change what is done" (I am summarizing the speech).

You see, they are full of shame now because they realize Correa made a mistake. Let me explain what I think about all of this. First, it happens that governments sometimes give too many good benefits to workers. Then they have no money to pay, and they have to cut these benefits. Maybe this is what happened in Ecuador, but I think the change of benefits for police and military are very sensitive things, and it is better to do this very slowly if they are reduced. Labor problems can create violence, and strikers are always very mad (if they are not mad, they do not strike). This means the employer, the government of Ecuador, did not act in a responsible way.

This they understand now, and they try to point the finger at the strikers. It is not that the strikers are innocent, but they are a mob of guys with many different ideas. This means the government, which is supposed to behave better than this mob of guys, needs to think carefully. And they did not. Correa behaved with an impulse to be like a typical latin american leader, I am boss, you are the guys I tell what to do, and you do it. And they started with the smoke grenades. And I bet there were guys in there who wanted to kill him, that's real. But tell me which president of a country doesn't have some guy who wants to kill him? Human society is always full of sick people who prefer violence. So my conclusion is, this was not a good idea Correa had, and he made a mistake. Now he is trying to put some paint on his face to make it look better.

[EFerrari]

73. You do understand that by the time Correa spoke from the hospital window

he had already been assaulted multiple times, right?

And yes, he says that prior to that and when he was still at the barracks, he met with a series of representatives from the national police and that none of them had read the legislation.

You are drawing conclusions based on information you got on television, which is unreliable. Go listen to what Correa himself said in the audio that rabs linked to. It's obvious that the national police were deliberately misinformed about the contents of the law.

There are three audio segments at rab's link. If nothing else, listen to the second one. And ask yourself, how was it that these people brought papers for Correa to sign if all of this was spontaneous?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x42495