Venezuela: Chavez equates Twitter with terrorism

[robcon]

Source: boing-boing

"After finding himself on the receiving end of widespread criticism and unfriendly hashtags on Twitter, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has announced that he now considers Twitter messages and social networking as terrorist threats. He is quoted in this Spanish-language news report as calling for more state control over the internet. The Great Firewall of... Venezuela? "



Read more: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/04/venezuela-chavez-equ.html

---

Chavez feels anything that fails to keep citizens voiceless and impotent is evil.

[Mari333]

1. well, all I can say about this is

hahahahahhahahaha

[dipsydoodle]

2. ditto

:rofl:

[Robb]

3. I'm certain it was an error in translation. nt

[Dave From Canada]

16. Well said! It's always an error in translation to them! LOL

[tiny elvis]

4. he said something about the cia being the threat, nothing about a firewall

is that crazy?

[WriteDown]

5. Facebook is the real enemy Hugo!

They've been denying you friend requests for years!

[iandhr]

6. I have sure

the Hugo defenders of DU will be here to defend him like always.

[carla]

12. You "have sure"...

right. I support the Bolivarian cause and I support Hugo Chavez, and I think these comments regarding Twitter prove he is a twit. All leadership fails at the threshold of the Peter Principle...or as Wittgenstein suggested "Whereof one does not know, thereof one should be silent"...

[dipsydoodle]

7. That's not an accredited news source

so what's this doing in LBN. Should be in Lounge or Humour.

[Pab Sungenis]

8. He's just mad

because someone beat him out as Mayor of Caracas on "Foursquare."

[Rebubula]

9. FINALLY!!!!

Something that Hugo and I agree on....

:evilgrin:

[brentspeak]

10. Interesting that you've been on DU all this time and still don't know DU LBN posting rules

What are your other sources of news information? I mean, besides "boing boing"?

[RoyGBiv]

11. No, he's not quoted as saying that ...

If you go to the source article, the only thing Chavez is quoted as saying comes from the final lines:

El mandatario informó que envió al ministro del Interior a supervisar la seguridad en el estadio Nueva Esparta, en Margarita, pues los grupos opositores "están enloquecidos tratando de generar violencia en los estadios".

"Están buscando violencia", dijo en su programa Aló Presidente.

Here, he's talking about protests at a sporting event and says that his opposition is trying to incite violence in the sporting stadiums. He apparently said this on his television show.

The "terrorist" bit comes from Chavez calling for measures to control the Internet, which is in response to Twitter being used to protest the Chavez government. His deputies are quoted as saying that they will respond to this call "for the welfare of the people," and the writer of the article made the link between the authority to do this and terrorist threats. Whether the author is paraphrasing or making a purely editorial comment is unclear.

In case it needs to be said, Chavez is not among my favorites. I offer this because I get thoroughly sick and tired of editors editorializing what people say and then some other editor not bothering to check a source and editorializing even further. Boing Boing keeps trying to pretend it is a legitimate news source. Things like this are the reason why it isn't.

[bemildred]

13. Yeah, it's the giant leaps of imagination being treated as news because you don't like someone.

Otherwise known as propaganda. If they want to rag on him I don't care, but this sort of obvious twaddle being presented as "news" is just annoying and shows they think you are moron who will believe anything.

[ChangoLoa]

15. Some context

He was on TV reading some crazy rumors concerning him that were being diffused through twitter. One of those rumors claimed that he was being held by the military in Fuerte Tiuna (biggest military command in the country), because he tried to impose to them Cuban high officials and they refused. What he said is that this campaign of rumors was terrorism and, speaking as he's used to speak, he said that people spreading them were "twitter-terrorists". That's it.

"1,2,3 Chavez 'tas ponchao"
Concerning the opposition trying to bring violence to the baseball parks, he's referring to the slogan "1,2,3, Chavez you struck out" that started being sang two weeks ago during the Venezuelan league finals. All this came from some people who brought to the park a banner saying "1 for the lack of water, 2 for the electricity blackouts and 3 for the insecurity: 1,2,3, Chavez 'tas ponchao (you're struck out)". It was the first of seven games in the finals and the National Guard intervened against the banner people, who got hit. The guards took the banner away (00:24).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6eCXtDHk6I&feature=related

After that event, people started chanting the slogan in the bb parks and in the demonstrations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-5j1-AtymM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Q4TUX3Kgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9q1B_G-ik&feature=related

[Peace Patriot]

14. This is not news. We know that lies about Chavez will be regularly posted

by certain DUers from the most unreliable sources of all--the Associated Pukes, the Wall Street Urinal, the New York Slimes, the Washington Psst, the Miami Hairball, Rotters, the BBCon, et al--or wherever they can get them from ("boingboing.net"?)--and that the lies will be followed by sarcastic, uninformative, stupid, juvenile and repetitive one-liners, to wit: "I am certain it was an error in translation" (sarcastic cover for the times that Chavez HAS been mistranslated--often used), and "I have sure the Hugo defenders of DU will be here to defend him like always" (stupid, sloppy, ungrammatical attempt to preempt informed, reasonable discussion--also often used).

We also know that the frequently posted lies, whether from the usual corpo-fascist suspects or from the back alleys of the internet, will follow certain pre-written patterns to create an IMPRESSION of the President of Venezuela as, a) a "dictator," b) incompetent, or c) crazy.

So, where is the "news" in this "Latest Breaking News" post? We already know all of this. We know that Chavez is a "dictator," incompetent and/or crazy in the very studied view of the corpo-fascist press and among those who believe everything they read in the corpo-fascist press, that facts don't matter, and that this viewpoint will be repeated over and over and over and over and over and over again, using the same one-liner "talking points" over and over and over and over and over and over again, trying to force this uninformed, unthinking impression on the rest of us and on unwary readers by means of Stalinist-like, "Big Lie" repetition.

This is the "latest" example of it. It is "breaking" in that it is yet another wrecking ball to informed, reasonable discussion. And it is "news" only if you consider the WMDs in Iraq to be "news." But, by all other definitions of "Latest Breaking News," it does not qualify.

Same old same old. Try to learn some new tricks, guys? Okay? Get that slurpy gray matter energized! Take some fish oil capsules! Have an expresso, maybe? Gear up! Move it out! Hep-two-three-four, hep-two-three-four! You can do it! Think a new thought!

------------------

Or, was this just a ploy to that get THAT headline into LBN, even if it gets bumped (as it did). Hm-m. Clever, very clever. So you guys ARE thinking. Well, I'll have to reassess my opinion that you need brain food.

[Dave From Canada]

17. Yes, it's always lies. *rolls eyes*

[bitchkitty]

20. It is always lies, without the eyeroll.

If I went through the posts that you and your anti-Chavez sidekicks make, you are always pushing a story that turns out to be bullshit. Have you no pride or shame?

[Dave From Canada]

25. Did King Hugo ban The Simpsons?

[bitchkitty]

28. OMFG!!! LMFAO!!!! You are sooooooooooooooooooooo funny!

My freaking sides are hurting!!!

No doubt your mommy thinks you're hilarious.

[Dave From Canada]

29. You didn't answer the question. But that's ok, I provided a link. : )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8277129.stm

[bitchkitty]

31. I wasn't aware it was a question.

I thought it was a joke. You didn't address my post either; nonetheless I will address yours:

Do you think I give a flying fuck about a Fox cartoon? I don't think either show, The Family Guy or The Simpsons, is suitable for children to watch. But that's just me. Right wingers seem to think it's okay to let their children sit in front of the television every night watching garbage, it saves them having to talk to them. And concentrating on silly things like this mean that they don't have to really THINK about the truth of the things they are constantly regurgitating.

How's that shoe fitting?

[Dave From Canada]

33. Well, was that a story pushed that turned out to be bullshit? That was your premise. How about

instead, you state which story was pushed, that turned out to be not true. Cause from what I've seen and read, most of what's been said about Chavez has been absolutely true. Seizing private businesses, shutting down dissenting radio and television stations, massively devaluing their currency, claiming the earthquake that hit Haiti was caused by the United States, and even resorting to now calling Obama childish names. And that doesn't even begin to touch on his very friendly relationship with "Isreal needs to die and gays don't exist in Iran, seeking the return of the 12th Imam, Holocuast denying" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Question. Does Hugo also deny the holocaust?

[EFerrari]

21. Have you ever, even once, tried to fact check any of these stories?

You might try it.

I was neutral about Chavez until I did and found, over and over and over, they're bs. And they usually can be tracked back to the same folks that use that same tactics on our president. :)

[Dave From Canada]

24. What's that old saying again? You are who your friends are. Ahmadinejad, Putin, Castro, nuff said

[EFerrari]

26. That cuts boths ways, doesn't it.

[Judi Lynn]

27. Uribe and all his ties to narcotrafficking and death squads,mass graves filled with unarmed citizens

his military, and the paras all killing young men and claiming they were FARCs, dressing them with FARC clothing or throw-down weapons to run up the "enemy" body count, the practise known as "false positives." What a hell of an ally! One of their tricks is to lure young men in from the country with the promise of a job, then to get a group together, and kill them. Once they even murdered a former death squad member with one leg amputated, one of their own, by accident (perhaps) and claimed him as a FARC.

Remember this guy, Islam Karimov, who established a tradition of BOILING his political prisoners alive? What a spectacular ally for US citizens/taxpayers. In our names.

http://www.sras.org.nyud.net:8090/img/photo/ca-karimov-americans.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/3/4166973_19262444de.jpg

http://www.chris-floyd.com.nyud.net:8090/telegrams/feed/karimov_terror_1.jpg http://www.sourcewatch.org.nyud.net:8090/images/7/74/Uzbekispin.png

[Peace Patriot]

34. Brazil's Lula da Silva invited Ahmadinejad to Brazil.

Virtually all Latin American countries oppose the U.S. boycott of Cuba.

Chavez is friends with MANY leaders and has forged alliances with MANY types of countries. To name just a few: Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua (friends with the leaders, very strong alliances, all kinds of projects and agreements), Italy (just made a big oil deal with an Italian company), France (worked together on hostage releases, has a deal with their oil company, Total), a large group of African countries (trade deals), a large group of Central American/ Caribbean countries (a trade group, ALBA), Norway (oil deal with Statoil), and others, as well as Russia, China, Cuba and Iran.

The U.S. has some real dubious "friends and allies," too--the Saudi royalty, the sheiks of the UAE, Uzbekistan (horrible leader), England (co-conspirator on the Iraq War and torture), Colombia (jeez--just one recent mass grass contains TWO THOUSAND bodies of local union organizers, community leaders, human rights advocates, small peasant farmers), Peru (very corrupt government; open fired from a helicopter gunship on indigenous protestors trying to to protect the Amazon).

Presidents of countries are OBLIGED to make friends, allies and deals with foreign countries and leaders. It is their DUTY. In democracies, like Venezuela, they are ELECTED to do so--and to use their judgement in what constitutes the interests of their country and their people. By allying with Cuba, for instance, Chavez was able to make a deal for cheap oil for Cuba in exchange for Cuban doctors to staff the many new medical clinics in poor neighborhoods that the Chavez government has built. The poor had no access to health care, and Venezuela had a paucity of doctors and medical professionals, due to the neglect and malfeasance of previous rightwing governments. And Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the western hemisphere--touted worldwide.

Your selective list of Chavez's friends betrays a serious bias. It is unreasonable and unfair.

[Judi Lynn]

35. The Cuban doctors working in Venezuela's poverty stricken area are treating people,

as you mentioned, who have NEVER been able to have access to ANY medical treatment of any kind. They are being helped when, in the past, NO Venezuelan services were available to them at all, not EVER. They were strictly forgotten, and ignored. They were not desirable clients for the Venezuelan doctors, so the Cuban doctors are NOT taking away business from them.

I can't avoid having the deepest disrespect for people who attempt to revile the new doctors bringing hope to the Venezuelan poor who would otherwise be living without treatment altogether. It's simply not their place to say the poor should suffer and die without help from Cuba because the politics offend the right-wing idiots.

As you mentioned, the Latin American leaders do business with ALL the countries you have listed. News articles appear daily on this topic. I just saw today that Guatemala or El Salvador is creating new programs with Viet Nam, too. This opening to the rest of the world is continual, normal. It's not going to end, either. It's so much healthier than the time when the US and the right-wing butchering puppet dictators made all the business decisions.

[ChangoLoa]

55. Yes, but what you say then is not true

They had access to public hospitals, we've never had an American model and public health worked pretty well for a developing country before the 80's crisis. Where do you think Venezuela's quite high life expectancy for a developing country came from?

[protocol rv]

30. Some people don't know the truth

I live in Venezuela, and these guys who support Chavez are making things up all the time. It is very funny.

[Judi Lynn]

37. If you don't mind, DU has had posters living in Venezuela for years,

and we've appreciated their intelligent presence here every time they've contributed.

Here's an excellent poster's comments I located to post here, as a tremendous example of personal material from real life we have read, considered, and do respect:

I've been living in Venezuela for the last two plus years because I wanted to see how Chavez's Bolivarian revolution was grappling with building a new, non-exploitative society. Living here, I can see what a huge job it is to turn a country of 30 millions people away from a capitalist system and into a human, socialist one. The Bolivarian revolution didn't come about through bloody battles, but through the ballot box. The ballot box has sustained it, in face of fierce opposition from the owning class. That opposition is a constant drag on effecting change, but so far it has been unable to stop it.

What keeps the majority of the Venezuelan people voting for change? The Chavez government, which has won 14 out of 15 elections since 1998, has instituted programs which meet the needs of every day people -- for free health care, free education, subsidized nutrition and housing. The new 1999 Constitution makes all of these things a constitutional right. The majority of the people keep voting for the Chavez government because it is extending democratic decision-making and control to the sectors of the population which never had that power before: community councils now control local decisions, decide how local problems will be solved, and carry out the job of implementing those decisions -- with funding from the national government. The new labor laws support the right of workers to unionize and, increasingly, to take over and run their plants. It encourages and subsidizes the creation of small businesses and cooperatives. But it is a hard job to demolish the old economic structures and create new ones. All the adults here have been raised in the capitalist ethos of every man/woman for him/herself, so there is the need to create a new, social consciousness. Successfully building a new society is a much, much harder job than simply tearing down the old one.

Venezuela is very lucky to have a visionary leader who is committed to building a truly human, democratic society. We need to encourage leadership like that in the U.S. and build a truly American movement which can support and develop such leadership. Most of all we need to raise and discuss the issues of what kind economic and social relations are required in a truly human society. And we must all participate in those discussions -- the unemployed assembly-line workers, the McDonald's servers, the homeless and the youth, as well as the formally schooled writers. poets and intellectuals. In the very discussion of ideas about what kind of a society we want, the forms and organizations and the methods for achieving it can emerge.

The United States was born in a revolution against imperialist tyranny. We Americans can do it again, if we have the powerful ideas which can capture the souls and energy of our people. It's time to work for the second great American revolution.

~~~~~Also, by the same excellent poster:

As an American living in Venezuela, I've had the opportunity to be treated by some of the Cuban doctors who have come here to staff many of Venezuela's new government provided neighborhood clinics. Their services have been excellent, providing care to millions of Venezuelans who, prior to President Chavez's election, were unable to afford the high cost of private doctors -- if they could even find them near their poor neighborhoods. Now, there is a free doctor down the block. Venezuela, in payment for the Cuban medical personnel, has given Cuba free oil. This is but one example of how Venezuela is using its oil to improve conditions for its own citizens while also improving life for Cubans, a win-win model for true "Free Trade".

Chavez's Venezuela has also relied on the literacy programs developed by Cuba to vastly increase the literacy rate here. According to the great article the poster referenced by DU's Mika, Cuba had an illiteracy rate of 40% before the 1959 revolution, its illiteracy rate is now zero! Venezuela has a national program, called Mission Ribas, which sends teachers throughout the country to teach reading and writing. In ten years, they have halved their illiteracy rate following Cuba's example.

I was shocked to learn recently that in the United States, 40 million people are illiterate, while an additional 40 millions don't comprehend what they read well enough to understand an average newspaper. That is an uneducated population of 80 million in a country with approximately 300 million people, more than 25% of the people in the "wealthiest country in the world". (According to a recent Michael Moore interview, the wealthiest 1% of our population own more than 95% of the rest of us. Clearly American's wealth is not going to education, just as it is not going to provide health care to the majority of our population.)

Just as the American media has demonized Castro and Cuba for the last 50 years, so it is now demonizing President Chavez and Venezuela -- because Cuba and Venezuela have instituted social programs which help their people. Big private corporations don't want to give up any of their profits to taxes to pay for health care and education, so they have bought all the media companies to be able to tell Americans how awful "socialism" is.

We need to wake up to the fact that we have been fed false information about socialism for years. We should be demanding government provided health care and education to the university level too.

The wealth of the big corporations comes from the labor that has been stolen from the workers who produced it. We must demand that the big corporations give back at least some of the wealth they have stolen. They must be forced to pay sufficient taxes to fund the basic services -- health care, education, food and housing -- that every human being deserves.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/justinaforjustice

[protocol rv]

40. Sorry, I don't read American newspapers

Your friend is what I call an exceptionalist, he paints a pretty picture to provide excuses. The worst part, he either lies, or he is ignorant.

For example, the comment about the Cuban doctors. Their treatment is mostly preventive medicine. This is a good idea, but it doesn't solve the problem caused by the lack of medicine and equipment in hospitals. Also, he doesn't discuss how much Venezuela pays for these doctors, which are carrying out work Venezuelans can do. The public hospitals are not receiving the funds they require because the money is diverted to the Cuban's program. And remember, here in Venezuela the poor and the lower middle class use those public hospitals. Their quality is so bad, there is a network of private clinics for people who can afford it.

I can tell you a personal story, there is this girl who is the daughter of my maid, and she is going to university because my family pays for the charges. She is hurt now, needs an operation, and she is so afraid of the public hospitals, she visited last week to beg us to pay for a clinic, because she is afraid they will kill her in the public hospital. There are options she has, for example, she can visit the local PSUV (same as communist) party leader, and they can influence PDVSA to pay for the operation in a clinic.

Your friend the American "socialist" makes many false claims, and ignores many realities. For example, I read in the paper that Venezuela's economy dropped 2.9 % last year, and it is going to do even worse this year. It also says we have the highest inflation in the Americas. And I think the inflation isn't measured right, because they count things the government has with price controls, but we can never find in the stores. Here in Venezuela, if you wanted to buy fresh milk, it was always available. Now, it is rare to find it. You have to buy the long duration milk becuase it is not price controlled, and that costs a lot more.

The government has many other mistakes, it seems Chavez is more concerned to fly around in his fancy plane to go hug his friends in other countries, than to think about how to solve problems, or prepare for when the problems come. This electricity crisis was predictable. You take a piece of paper, and make a graph of the way the population increases in this country, then you assume each person consumes the same average, and you could, without any fancy Cuban "experts" coming to tell us, decide the electricity was going to be missing. Then you had to remember there is always a dry season, and it is always a lot worse every 7 years more or less. And if you don't maintain the thermal electric plants, which they haven't done, and you have the dry season, and the water runs out, then of course we have an electricity crisis. This problem isn't caused by nature, it is caused by Chavez.

We are not Cuba, nor a little Caribbean island, nor Nicaragua. In this country there was money to build and maintain the plants to make sure the electricity would be available, but instead they decided to give our money away, sending cash in suitcases to the Kirchners, and giving away money, buying bonds from Ecuador everybody knows will never be paid, buying Russian planes we know will never be used, and other wasted things.

But now the story changes. People are getting very angry at this government, and they are bringing the king of repression from Cuba, to make sure we are kept quiet, and don't protest because things are turning out so bad. Chavez gets on the TV and forces all the stations to show him talking all the time, and this is an abuse of power, and if they refuse to do it, he closes them.

I write this to you because I have the feeling you don't really understand. Maybe you are dreamers, American communists who think everything with your ideas has to be perfect, and when you are told this is not so, then you deny the truth. I wonder, do you think the Soviet Union was really the paradise of the working class? Maybe you should ask a Russian what they think.

[Wilms]

41. Links help make the case.

Otherwise, it's just talk.

[protocol rv]

45. Links to what?

She made a link to a posting by "an American living in Venezuela" in this web site, an American who was evidently living on a cloud, or is a liar.

I happen to be in Venezuela, so you can always link to me, I suppose. And if you want other links to Venezuela, I suggest you read the papers on the internet - try Human Rights Watch or other NGOs about human rights if you want to start understanding what happens.

And I assume if you happen to be pro-Chavez you will carefully avoid reading or believing anything which happens to be critical of the man. It is human nature to filter out reality when it's convenient to maintain a fiction. And many of you have created in your minds a fiction about a very flawed man, Chavez, that you will not shake until you see what happens in Venezuela in the future.

What I do know is very simple, the economy in Venezuela was very bad this year, it is worse this year, there is a serious problem with crime, there is a problem with lack of electricity, inflation is the highest in Hemisphere, and the corruption level is higher than ever. Like the song says, Chavez invented the 5th Republic, but he is just another politician from the 4th Republic dressed in red. I read some of the craziest things about Venezuela here in this website, like the one about Chavez building thousands of schools, or how excellent is the medical care, and glowing comments about Venezuela's oil reserves. Most of this propaganda is just outright lies, or they are meaningless.

What do I care if we have the highest oil reserves in the world, if the oil production is falling, we don't have the natural gas we need, the government is wasting the money, and PDVSA is spending more time talking about building grocery stores and power plants, rather making sure the oil and gas are produced? And the foreign companies? They sit there, waiting, waiting, signing little pieces of paper, but they do nothing. They are just keeping their offices open, waiting for the government policies to change, because nobody in their right mind will bring large sums of money to Venezuela, when it's subject to being nationalized by this crazy government.

[Wilms]

46. So VZ is up to it's neck in economic headaches.

Like most other nations. Correct? Meanwhile, do you not see the concerted effort in the west to demonize him? Who/why? Follow the $.

Like the majority in VZ, I think it's ok having Chavez in office.

[protocol rv]

47. Venezuela economy is worse than most other nations

You are not correct. The Venezuelan economy lost 2.9 % in GDP last year. These are the official figures. The predicted loss this year is 3 %. The cumulative loss for Venezuela during this depression is larger than for most countries. We are also suffering from the highest inflation in the hemisphere, and one of the highest in the world, about 30 % and increasing.

There is no "concerted effort to demonize him". People here are just tired of the man. And the polling results here in Venezuela, show the majority doesn't support him any more. The latest polls show people will vote for "anybody but Chavez", rather than Chavez. They may control the Supreme Court, the CNE, and the Congress too, but their moment has passed them. They did a poor job, and now the majority is opposed to their ideas.

The question is, whether they will allow the people to replace these "socialists", or will they try to cling to power using repression like the communists do in Cuba. I think they will use repression and also cheat in the elections. This group of people are not like Lula.

[Wilms]

48. Wow. A whole 1/2 percent worse than the US.

"Real GDP decreased 2.4 percent in 2009..."

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

And then you trot out the "The question is, whether they will allow the people to replace these "socialists", or will they try to cling to power" line that the pro-oligarchs regularly dump on DU.

People here are sick of that.

[Zorro]

49. Correction

SOME people here are sick of that.

OTHER people here suspect Chavez and his minions will try to cling to power by hook or crook.

[Wilms]

52. Suspects, minions, cling to power, blah, blah.

Do you hate democracy?

The guy was like...voted in.

[ChangoLoa]

50. Read some books, inform yourself

And stop insulting people with such empty claims. To be against Chavez govt doesn't mean that someone is "pro-oligarch". Can you understand the aggression contained in the use of those words? If you knew the meaning of oligarch and some Venezuelan history, you'd see how absurd your accusation is.

What people here are sick of is sterile and childish personal attacks like the one you just made.

[Wilms]

51. The sterile and childish personal attacks are all from the opposition.

I know YOU don't see it that way.

:hi:

[ChangoLoa]

54. Empty comment, empty entity (the opposition)

The sterile and childish personal attacks, in Venezuela, are from both, chavismo and non-chavismo. I wonder when will you understand there's a middle point in all the propaganda you get to hear... instead of repeating it like a one-sided parrot.

[Wilms]

56. Ohhhh. A middle point.

You've been all over that. :eyes:

[ChangoLoa]

59. Empty again.. decide what you wanna put inside and get back to us. nt

[Wilms]

60. Show us a candidate...not a supermodel wife and get back to us. n/t

[ChangoLoa]

62. LOL.. how much lower can you get? show us. nt

[Wilms]

63. Just tweakin' the oligarchs...nothin' personal.

Want to see how low I can go?








































:rofl:

:hi:

:evilgrin:

[protocol rv]

65. Venezuela economy is worse than most other nations

As I said, the Venezuelan economy is doing worse than most other nations'. Americans tend to focus on America, they are a very inward looking people, therefore it is not surprising to see commments by Americans comparing a country to the USA. It's quite irrelevant, but we do understand the way the American mind works.

But let's look at it with a more global perspective. Of all the nations on Earth, Venezuela is predicted to have, on a cumulative basis, the worst economic performance for 2009 and 2010. This is a fact. You can try to dance around it, compare it to Zimbabwe, or whatever you wish. But the fact does not go away. Venezuela also has near record inflation, and extremely high crime which is increasing. And we have a government which is more and more ignoring the law and the Constitution, wasting money buying useless things, donating money it has to borrow, and otherwise behaving as if they were children.

Also let's remember what happened in 2008 in the USA, the Bush administration was seen as the guilty party for the economic crisis, and the other messes he created, from Iraq to the failure to rescue New Orleans when it drowned, and the Republicans paid by losing the elections in an overwhelming way. Eight years of Bush and Republican mismanagement and corruption were rewarded by the American people with a slap in the face, a kick in their behinds, and a huge electoral loss. I supppose now the Republican leaders are like dogs trying to cover their own fecal matter, and working hard to make the American people forget just how terrible they are. And the American people, being like other people, will have short memories, and let them lie about this lousy record they have. This is what happens in a working democracy, it is flawed, has its ups and downs, but largely does keep politicians from becoming absolute tyrants and idiots for a long period of time.

And hopefully there is enough democracy left so we can get rid of these so called "socialists of the 21st century". They have done a lousy job, and it's time for change. Maybe they will become a minority party, and work hard to clean up their act, which will be good, because a country works better when there is disagreement, civilized disagreement where in the end people can resolve their differences by voting. Problem is, what do we do when the ruling party has a slogan like "Patria, Socialismo, o Muerte"? Do you think it's possible to expect much from people who tell us they want socialism or people will die?

[Wilms]

66. Then why not get a referendum to toss Chavez from office?

"Venezuela's constitution allows for such a referendum halfway through a president's term if 20 per cent of the country's registered voters sign a petition asking for it."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=30383&mesg_id=30387


Seems like the democratic thing to do. No? :shrug:

[ChangoLoa]

53. Bienvenido

You will notice that 4 or 5 people here really believe with all their hearts that Venezuela is one of the greatest political models in the world, the best democracy and the most respectful about human rights. Of course, none of them has ever been to Venezuela and all they get to read is english press about the country, since they don't have a clue about Spanish. They'll try to identify you as a propaganda agent "lobbying", here in DU (!), for America's intervention in our country (I'm Venezuelan). We call them "worshipers" though I doubt that things are that simple. They are too manipulative, ignore any proven information that doesn't fit in their line and, overall, they spend way too much time in here, writing amazing volumes of "militant-information".

[Wilms]

57. And you were decry childishness a few posts back? Hmmm n/t

[ChangoLoa]

58. "Hmmm.." indeed. You're a living proof, Wilms. Funny. nt

[Wilms]

61. .

:cry:




:eyes:

[protocol rv]

64. Thanks

I've seen such behavior in many people. They believe something with all their hearts, and it's impossible to convince them otherwise. I'll give you an example, I consider President Clinton of the USA a war criminal. When I explain to a USA democrat the reason why, he usually ignores my arguments. If the person is Republican, they agree before I make any arguments. I also think President Bush is a war criminal. And it happens backwards, the Democrats don't need to hear any arguments, they think it's ok. The Republicans will not listen to any arguments at all.

These pro-Chavez Americans behave the same way, they can't hear the truth because it shocks them. Unfortunately, what they do is help people like Chavez who make leftists look bad. We have luck because at least in Brazil there is Lula, and in Spain Rodriguez Zapatero, so people can see it's OK to be a decent socialist. I think Chavez would have been OK, if he had not started listening to Castro and all those Cubans he brought over. And surrounded himself with so many stupid people too. Now, it's a disaster, and we're doomed to become a very poor country.

[ChangoLoa]

43. Same literacy rate propaganda as usual

"Vastly increased the literacy rate" in Venezuela from 92% to 96% in a decade. Comparable to Cuba, from 60% to 100%. Yeah, right...

"Halved the illiteracy rate in 10 years"... indeed, from 8% to 4%. They'll say they've halved it again in 5 years when it reaches 2% and 2 years after that, when it falls to 1%. They'll talk about how they have "incredibly increased the literacy rate", then, after gaining 7 percentage points in 17 years.

But wait a minute, the literacy rate was 84.7% in 1981. In the next 17 years, it increased to 92%... 7.3 pc points in 17 years??? Venezuela kept the same trend in 1981-1998 and 1999-2008..

SAME OLD TREND!

Highlighting a previous trend which stayed the same as a political success for this particular govt = PROPAGANDA

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorro]

42. And while you're at it

Why don't you tell forum readers about YOUR personal experiences in Venezuela and Latin America, ye of a brazillion posts.

[protocol rv]

18. Chavez, tas ponchao

I think it's time Chavez retire from office. He isn't doing a good job, and the Chavez tas ponchao sure sounds good to everybody around here. History will not be very kind to this man, we are tired of the 3 hour speeches and the condescending tone, the insults, the lack of electricity, the crime, the corrupt government officials, and the hyper inflation. With his juvenile behavior, he makes all Venezuelans look crazy.

[bitchkitty]

19. LOL

[EFerrari]

22. LOL. Thank you for your contribution.

[Peace Patriot]

23. Yeah, it sure is crazy-ass behavior to cut poverty by half, build thousands of schools,

medical clinics and community centers for poor Venezuelans never before served by government, so nuts to provide free health care to everyone, provide free education through university, get Venezuela vastly improved oil contracts with the multinational corporations, produce five years of economic growth most of it in the private sector, and head into a worldwide U.S.-caused depression, debt free, with good credit, and having saved $50 billion in international cash reserves while fully funding new social programs.

That kind of behavior can get you a really bad rep among banksters and other global corporate ripoff artists. They will call you insane! They will call you a "dictator"! They will pick at your every foible and ridiculously exaggerate every problem you can't solve 'yesterday' into the imminent collapse of Venezuelan society, and NEVER MENTION a SINGLE positive achievement of your government despite there being many positive achievements to point to, including some spectacular ones.

That crazy dictator, he's done it again! He's failed to take Venezuelans' guns away! He's failed to ban the drought! He dares to talk to the Venezuelan people! And "everybody around here" thinks so!

[protocol rv]

36. Thousands of schools?

Could you please let me know where are these thousands of schools you mention? I haven't seen any. The "medical clinics" you mention aren't enough, the public hospitals don't work very well around here. I'd like to see any of you to go to a Venezuelan public hospital with your child - it's dangerous because they lack medicines and equipment.

The vast improved contracts with multinationals is something I don't think makes any difference, if the oil production is going down because PDVSA now lacks the ability to produce the oil. PDVSA is trying to bring in those same multinationals, and now they refuse to do much work. Like I said in another letter, we don't see any jobs or any real investment, all they do is sign papers, and they're like vultures, waiting for PDVSA to go down more, fall on its knees, and then cut its head off, so they can go back to making their usual profits.

And this is true, OPEP says Venezuela produces a lot less now than before Chavez. Many of your arguments are failing, because they are not true. You talk about these great accomplishments, but in 10 years of power, he has done very little to REALLY improve the crime problem, the hospitals, or get people good jobs. And he has given us very high inflation, the price of food is too high, and people can't afford to buy anything.

And now they run around in red shirts shouting slogans and really crazy sayings like "patria, socialismo o muerte", they copied the Cuban slogan, added socialismo to it. And how can you have democracy if they say we'll die if we don't want to be socialists? What do you think about your beloved government and their democracy when they run around saying they'll kill anybody who proposes anything but what they want? They're a rotten group of people.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wilms]

38. "With his juvenile behavior, he makes all Venezuelans look crazy."

I'm sure it works that way for many people who can't think straight.

[Mika]

44. Does anyone know if the US State Dept is still "helping" Twitter w/their servers?

Like they were during the Iranian "Neda" protests. Interestingly that was going on just days after the Obama admin shut down many popular social networking websites and software in/to the so called "sponsors of terrorism" nations. That action left Twitter as the most accessible in those nations,

Anyone know if there's any US/corporate activity like this with Twitter in Venezuela?