COLOMBIAN MILITARY KILLED THE WOUNDED AND THOSE WHO HAD SURRENDERED

[magbana]

REBELION: A textbook definition of cowardice
Posted by: "Walter Lippmann" [e-mail] walterlx
Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:32 am (PDT)
(A translation from the Spanish at Rebelion by La Machetera.)
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A textbook definition of cowardice
March 17, 2008 · No Comments

http://machetera.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/a-textbook-definition-of-cowardice
/
International Criminal Court - The Hague

Blanche Petrich filed this report for La Jornada.

The Surviving Mexican Student Reveals that Colombian Soldiers Killed the
Wounded and Those Who Had Surrendered

Yesterday the Mexican student Lucía Morett gave her first declaration to
Ecuador’s Attorney General, William Pesantez, from the Military Hospital in
Quito, and testified that Colombian soldiers who bombed the FARC camp in the
Sucumbios zone - where until now the bodies of 5 women and 17 men have been
recovered - killed the people who were wounded and who’d surrendered.

The other two survivors of the massacre, Doris Bohórquez and Martha Peréz,
two Colombians kept by force in the camp to perform domestic work, backed
up her declarations with this statement, given in an interview with the
Secretary General of the Latin American Association for Human Rights
(ALDHU): “The soldiers were shouting for people to give themselves up, that
their lives would be respected, and once they did so, they were killed.”

The jurist, who represents the three survivors in their lawsuit against
Colombia for an illegitimate act of war - an invasion using cluster bombs
where wounded people were annihilated and the injured abandoned at the
scene, among other crimes against human rights - said that ALDHU and the
Ecuadoran human rights organizations “hoped to have the support of the
Mexican government.”

He said that he was also studying the possibility of presenting the case to
the International Criminal Court, inasmuch as it was a military attack
against a group of entirely civilian Mexican students, who were legally in
Ecuador, where their activities were legal. “Of course first this initial
stage of the process must be done away with, where the victims have been
blamed as guerrillas and terrorists, as if that excuses the fact that they
were massacred.”

What expectations do they have of the Mexican government?

“Every sovereign country should protect its citizens outside of its borders.
Mexico has done this energetically in the past, and we hope that this will
not be the exception. These young people were civilian students who were
here legally, their activities were legal and even the Attorney General has
said so. Therefore they are victims of a massacre.

“The Mexican authorities will determine what to do, but next week we are
going to submit a lawsuit to the Mexico’s Public Minister and the respective
authorities demanding protection of the people and their rights. If it is
not done, it will be the Mexican people who will judge this conduct. As a
civil Latin American society we will not rest until these crimes have been
punished and that impunity does not remain,” he indicated.

ALDHU delivered all the documentation to the Ecuadoran attorney general,
certifying that the young Mexicans had entered on a 40 day tourist visa,
where they visited various universities and interviewed social leaders and
indigenous groups. They also presented a theatrical work at the Second
Bolivarian Continental Congress in Quito, which was captured on video.
From there someone proposed that they go to learn about a FARC camp,” said
Parra, referring to the substance of the statements made yesterday in the
Military Hospital. “They were enthusiastic about the idea, first out of
curiosity and second because some of them had been working on Latin American
movements as part of their theses.

“On February 28 they took a bus to Lago Agrio, the city closest to the
border. They arrived the morning of the 29th, went around the city and made
contact with a man, an adult of few words, dressed in civilian clothing, who
drove them in a vehicle for a little more than two hours. Later they
traveled by boat on a river and then walked quite a long time until they
arrived at the clandestine FARC camp around 6 p.m. on the 29th.

“There they were received by a woman who indicated a place where they could
eat and assigned them sleeping places. They were to begin their interviews
and activities the following day, but that very night they were bombed.”

Lucía Morett said the bombing happened in two stages. She was wounded but
protected herself with a backpack. She explained that after a few minutes
the soldiers arrived. Five of them surrounded her and shone a light on her
while she told them that she was a Mexican student. She mentioned the sexual
harassment to which she was submitted. Later another wave of Colombian
soldiers arrived, but with another uniform, who were identified as police.

They didn’t kill her but she mentioned hearing bursts of gunfire against
groups of people who captive or wounded. Afterwards, they brought her to
higher ground, underneath a roof, because the sun was already high in the
sky. There they left her.

The young woman has an infected 10 centimeter wound in her backside which is
difficult to heal. She has been in surgery a number of times.
Parra indicated that while the attorney general took her statement yesterday
he was accompanied by Mexico’s ambassador and consul. “This gave her
comfort, because until last night she’d been very sorrowful, feeling that
her embassy had practically abandoned her.”

Yesterday the family of Fernando Franco arrived. His body was identified
along with that of Juan González of Castillo. Today the arrival of the
family of Verónica Natalia Velázquez Ramirez is expected. The Mexican
embassy was also able to contact the family of Soren Ulises Avilés, graduate
of the National Polytechnic Institute.

[AlphaCentauri]

1. I knew, there is a lot of shit coming out

the Uribe advisor's have been distributing pictures as proof of the alleged Ecuadorian government with the FARC, but every proof they show its just another lie. Uribes pals may have to their disposition the most advance propaganda machine.


This picture was the proof Colombia presented before the OAS that Ecuadorian minister Gustavo Larrea had interest in the colombian guerrilla but it turn out to be another person, the secretary of the Argentinian communist party Patricio Echegaray

[magbana]

4. I just got back from a presentation by Ecuador's Foreign Minister

Maria Isabel Salvador and she confirmed what you have reported -- the pic of the guy with Reyes is the head of the Argentinian CP.

Tomorrow I'll send out a summary to the list about the presentation by Salvador.

[magbana]

5. NOTES from presentation by Ecuador's Foreign Minister

Notes from presentation by Maria Isabel Salvaor, Foreign Minister of Ecuador at the Inter-American Dialogue, Washington, DC, March 18, 2008

-Salvador described Ecuador as a country of revolution, but democratic.

-She mentioned the article in which a photo appeared showing Raul Reyes sitting with a man who was falsely identified as an Ecuadorian minister, Gustavo Larrea, in an effort to suggest that Ecuador had collaborated with the FARC. The person was actually the secretary of the Argentinean Communist Party, Patricio Echegaray.

-She said Ecuador had been systematically removing FARC camps and had removed 50% within the last year.

-Ecuador does not support groups with violent intentions.

-On the laptops: doubts the laptops could have survived the bombing; can’t verify anything about alleged information in them because Colombians will not allow Ecuador to see any documents.

-The Colombians knew the coordinates for Reyes’ FARC camp well in advance of the attack and Uribe had an obligation to inform Ecuador of his intentions.

-The US is ignoring the violation of sovereignty issued.

-Confirmed that Ecuador refers to FARC as combatants rather than terrorists.

Then a call came in and Salvador had to go to the OAS, presumably because the resolution compromise had been hammered out.

(Nothing earth shattering here – the audience was a sea of gusanos. When leaving the meeting, I ended up in the same elevator with a bunch of Colombians and they said that Salvador’s presentation was “one-sided” and she tried to make Ecuador look “innocent.” I couldn’t resist, I said, “Well, thank goodness she was the only speaker on the agenda today because I’m not sure how else we would ever learn about Ecuador’s side of the story. Meanwhile, you guys have the Miami Herald, NYT, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post doing your cheerleading 24-7.” They laughed in an uncertain manner trying to figure out what I was up to. They couldn’t believe a dissenter was in their midst. There’s a reason that the Inter-American Dialogue is referred to as the Inter-American MONOLOGUE. I bounded out of the elevator quickly – nothing more dangerous than a pissed off gusano.)

[Judi Lynn]

2. Thanks for this info. I'll be back to study it later this evening. Looks very useful. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

3. Now there are doubts about the body of the FARC number 2

That body maybe of an ecuadorian citizen. Not confirmed yet.

An Ecuadorian who disappeared might have died in the bombing against the FARC in Colombia Ecuador and his body moved to Colombia, said today his parents, who claim to have identified the image of his son among the photographs of the victims.

This is Aizalia Guillermo, a 38-year-old locksmith, who communicated with his family two days before the raid Colombian 1 March, which killed the number two of the FARC, 'Raul Reyes', and another two dozen people , including four Mexicans who were in the camp bombed.

"All I want is that I handed over the body of my son," said Teresa Molina, a mother of the alleged victim, the channel Teleamazonas.

According to his testimony, the man traveled outside Quito to do a job and called on 27 without specifying the place where he was.

The body of Aizalia would have been carried by the soldiers who shot down Reyes, and then presented as Julián Conrad, known as the FARC musician who, acording to Bogota, also died in the operation.

Due to such an operation in Ecuadorian territory, Quito maintains broken its relations with Colombia.

"I think they confuse that with the Conrad mustache. They must be confused, "said William Aizalia, father of Franklin.



http://www2.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC.asp?id_noticia=178033&id_seccion=4

[Judi Lynn]

6. That's really very strange. Hope to hear more about this soon. Thanks for the info. n/t

[gbscar]

7. Except that what Morett actually said was this:

"...llegaron personas disparando. Yo alcance a oír gente que contaba muertos, gente que gritaba, que decía: 'estoy herido, ayuda!', y otra que decía: 'denle bala, denle bala!', y después, disparos".

http://noticias.aol.com.mx/articulos/_a/denuncia-abusos-lucia-morett/20080305135209990001

In other words, she heard people shooting, others counting the dead, people screaming for help, people telling others to shoot, and then heard shots.

I see no mention of her hearing, let alone seeing (which isn't what she is saying in the first place), anybody actually surrendering and then being shot.

Does anyone really think that, in the middle of the night, wounded and surrounded by chaos, she would be in a position to accurately and fully comprehend the situation or those screams and shots she was hearing? Again, if she said she had seen someone surrendering and being shot, that would be something else.

But this is hardly as clear cut as the interpretation that she "mentioned hearing bursts of gunfire against groups of people who captive or wounded" indicates. She didn't see or hear anyone being "captive", but that's automatically assumed by certain people...

Finally, the students themselves died due to the explosion, not due to any bullets or executions, according to Ecuador's Police:

"El informe de la policía de Ecuador, dado a conocer el martes, estableció que los estudiantes murieron por efecto de la onda expansiva del bombardeo y no por heridas de bala; también, que estaban vestidos de civil y juntos."

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2008/03/20/index.php?section=politica&article=012n1pol

That means it wasn't a premeditated attack against the students. Their deaths are tragic but they were the result of placing their own lives at risk by being in a FARC camp while there is no truce or peace process going on.

Their families should sue, and they'll likely win reparations because yes, they were killed...but no court in the world is going to argue that these students were intentionally and premeditatedly massacred or murdered on an individual basis or that they were in a legitimately safe location which should be protected from assault.

They are innocent casualties of a valid military attack (a war is going on with no cease fire) against a valid military target (a top FARC commander who is not merely a "negotiator" but also a senior Secretariat member who didn't earn that post "negotiating"), an attack which indeed violated another nation's territory and thus was a violation of the law which should be condemned for that reason alone.

But move that camp just two kilometers inside Colombia and that issue disappears.

If there were indeed executions of people surrendering, which is hard to tell from this testimony alone if anyone tries to be rigorous and not emotional or partisan, that would still be a problem. But that wasn't what happened to the Mexican students.

[AlphaCentauri]

8. ehem

-I see no mention of her hearing, let alone seeing (which isn't what she is saying in the first place), anybody actually surrendering and then being shot.

snip...

-If there were indeed executions of people surrendering, which is hard to tell from this testimony alone if anyone tries to be rigorous and not emotional or partisan, that would still be a problem. But that wasn't what happened to the Mexican students.





El general Cisneros dijo que el informe entregado a la justicia describe la manera en que fueron ubicados los cadáveres, así como el artefacto que les causó la muerte, en unos casos por esquirlas y en otros por impacto de balas, con especificación del tipo de arma.
http://www.elporvenir.com.mx/notas.asp?nota_id=200770

The autopsy reveal some die of gunshots.
The Colombian government informed that bombs were used not bullets.


-Their deaths are tragic but they were the result of placing their own lives at risk by being in a FARC camp while there is no truce or peace process going on.

Colombian troops attacked inside Ecuador on March 1, not in a war zone. That is in a neutral country.

-They are innocent casualties of a valid military attack

Colombia alleged self defense and hot pursuit. witch was a lie.

-But move that camp just two kilometers inside Colombia and that issue disappears.

Lets bring to live those who die.

[gbscar]

9. Actually...Those are not the bodies of the Mexican students

Those are not the bodies of the Mexican students, so that part of the point, which was the main one, stands. Unless you want to question Ecuador's own police, which has said the students didn't die due to any bullet wounds.

Other individuals and guerrillas in the camp could well have died in the manner that photo suggests.

But there are other elements as well. The Colombian government has claimed that there was combat and that such a thing explains the shots at short distance, not that only bombs were used during the entire operation.

"Una vez cruzaron la frontera para recuperar los cadáveres fueron atacados por guerrilleros sobrevivientes lo que explicaría los muertos con armas y a corta distancia."

http://www.eltiempo.com/politica/2008-03-18/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR-4017538.html

Whether that is false, as Ecuador says, or not is another matter (extremely hard to imagine that FARC's 2nd top commander would only have 15-20 guerrillas or so protecting him...it's likely others survived and left the camp after the fact, obviously leaving no bodies around for the Ecuadorians to find), but there it is.

"Colombian troops attacked inside Ecuador on March 1, not in a war zone. That is in a neutral country."

Ecuador has never openly or publicly declared that FARC has a right or permission to enter their territory and create bases there because of said "neutrality".

In fact, they've said the opposite: that FARC cannot enter Ecuador and cannot establish bases there. Nor can the Colombian military, of course.

But that FARC camp had no legal or international protection from assault, in itself, its location in Ecuador aside. Which is my point.

The only violation related to the operation as whole, on a strategical level, was its crossing the border.

Tactically, the only other violation would concern the death of some of the individuals in the camp and the treatment of Morett.

"Colombia alleged self defense and hot pursuit. witch was a lie."

Probably so on that last count, but self-defense is debatable. "Raúl Reyes" was no innocent bystander or mere "negotiator", and FARC has attacked Colombian border patrols, towns and bases in the recent past, all of that relatively close to the Ecuador border. You could argue that retaliating against one of his bases and against the man himself is more than justified in terms of self-defense, leaving the crossing of the border aside.

"Lets bring to live those who die."

I was referring to the issue of the attack's inherent legality, not to the lives lost.

[AlphaCentauri]

10. Lets debate the facts first before going into speculations

Lets take just the facts of this incident don't justified the murder of the Mexican student with speculations.

1. Anything published by the news paper El Tiempo has to be verified, they were the ones who publish the picture linking the Ecuadorian minister to Reyes. Big surprise it wasn't true, it was false and El Tiempo published a note recognizing their mistake blaming the Colombian police for providing false information. http://www2.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC.asp?id_noticia=178463&id_seccion=3

2. The operation Fenix video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_HKAerOlB8
a) In the first 22 seconds the soldiers move into ecuadorian territory without shooting. That may proof the 60 Colombian soldiers did not find any resistance when they were getting close to the FARC camp.

b)In the next 30 seconds they find Reyes body,

c)When the video gets to exactly one minute they find the student Morett, the officer tell her she is a lier then Morett replies saying she does not know nothing, she just got there yesterday. Then they ask her some questions but the audio in the video was muted.

d)After they found Morett when the video gets to the 2 minutes and 4 seconds there is a shooting, the soldiers then ask some people to surrender, they ask Carla to talk and Paula to give up.

e)When the video gets to the 4 minutes the laptops appear and in the background there is the sound of Helicopters.

f) They show the camp in day light with the noise of helicopter flying around.


Everything shown in the video match's Moretts declarations. Also the helicopters show that Uribe was lying when he said that Colombian airplanes and Helicopter did not enter Ecuadorian territory

[Judi Lynn]

11. Thanks for posting the video. n/t

[gbscar]

12. So now I'm "justifying" the deaths of these Mexicans...wonderful

"1. Anything published by the news paper El Tiempo has to be verified, they were the ones who publish the picture linking the Ecuadorian minister to Reyes. Big surprise it wasn't true, it was false and El Tiempo published a note recognizing their mistake blaming the Colombian police for providing false information. http://www2.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC.asp?id_noticia=178..."

Look, ignoring that your argument is flawed because everything any newspaper in the world has published always needs to be verified and not only El Tiempo is capable of posting false or simply incorrect materials, that's absolutely not the point. Never was, never will.

What I linked to is what the Colombian government is claiming and not something El Tiempo is stating by itself. They are just reporting on it.

Notice the difference? Not that hard to tell, I hope. It's not rocket science. So you're not addressing the point.

That doesn't mean it's true, but only that such is the government's official position. If you want to ignore it, that's fine. But that's what it is, and you can't say it isn't.

As for the photo, they apologized (in an editorial and a separate article, no less) the day after they posted it online.

"2. The operation Fenix video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_HKAerOlB8"

That video has been edited for public consumption and does not show the entire operation, by any means. There are obvious cuts in the footage. The full tape (or tapes) would be needed in order to make any realistic interpretations.

It doesn't provide enough conclusive information about many of the details, and that's what matters in any court proceedings that may arise around this case. You say that the video matches Morett's declarations, but there are too many gaps and room for interpretation.

"After they found Morett when the video gets to the 2 minutes and 4 seconds there is a shooting, the soldiers then ask some people to surrender, they ask Carla to talk and Paula to give up."

They never call Morett by her name during that video. She seems to be Carla. And Paula may be the alias of Doris Bohórquez or Martha Pérez, the real names of the other two survivors who also happen to be female and which weren't visiting Mexican students (who, again, were not among those possibly executed, as Ecuador's Police has stated).

Also, the shooting you mention doesn't sound like what would happen during a simple execution of wounded or captured personnel (or at least they'd end up with many bullet wounds in the process), but rather like two long bursts of gunfire. According to the video itself, the military claims it's a combat with the guerrillas, which is part of the government's position and the reason why I posted the El Tiempo link (which, again, is not saying that it's true, but that such is the official position).

"Also the helicopters show that Uribe was lying when he said that Colombian airplanes and Helicopter did not enter Ecuadorian territory "

You're the one who is wrong here, however. Uribe claimed that the planes did not enter Ecuador's territory and bombed the camp from outside of it, but Colombia has always stated that the helicopters did enter to pick up Reyes.

[AlphaCentauri]

13. There is a big difference defending the Colombian government positions and the Facts.

1. There is a big difference defending the Colombian government positions and the Facts. Government positions would include lies.

"Colombia no violó la soberanía de Ecuador"
http://www.rcn.com.co/noticia.php3?nt=24271

About the Uranium old news. In 2006 Colombian government did accused Venezuela of having Uranium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz7i7-3hPt4

2. Look at the video again and see that the soldiers were talking to Carla and Paula after they got Morett. Any confrontations with the people in the compartment would be published in that video since the people in Uribe's government understand how to market a political statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4R5CrPm3ag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfga2RnWNDQ