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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 03:20 PM
Original message
Brazil's Lula defends Ahmadinejad's visit
Brazil's Lula defends Ahmadinejad's visit
Posted : Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:58:19 GMT
By : dpa

Brasilia - Brazil doesn't veto talks with anyone, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Wednesday, defending the upcoming visit of his Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is expected in Brazil on November 23. At a joint press conference with Israeli President Shimon Peres in Brasilia, Lula said: "You do not build peace if you do not talk to all political and religious forces, those that want peace and those that oppose peace."

"We need to talk more and to find more partners who want to help in peace-building in the Middle East. And we do not refuse to talk to anyone, as long as in that chat we can get a word, or at least a comma, that might help build peace," he said.

Otherwise, Lula emphasized, talks are just like a friends' club and "peace will not ever be possible."

"You know that there will be no peace without political concessions," he said, addressing Peres directly.

However, he also stressed that Brazil condemns "any form of terrorism, under any pretexts."

During a two-hour meeting with Peres, Lula explained Brazil's willingness to contribute to negotiations in the Middle East, and stressed that peace in that region "is everybody's hope."

Lula will host Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on November 20.

Peres said he had invited Lula to visit Israel. "I understand that he will also visit the Palestinian side. I know he is friendly with the Palestinians, and we would also like to be. With serious and firm support (from Brazil) I know there can be a contribution," Peres said.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/294290,brazils-lula-defends-ahmadinejads-visit.html
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Where's the Chavez hate mob, with their photos of Chavez meeting with Ahmadinejad?!
And the ones retyping the latest CIA brainwash: love Lulu, hate Chavez?

Suck on it, Chavez haters!

"Brazil doesn't veto talks with anyone, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Wednesday, defending the upcoming visit of his Iranian counterpart Mahmoud Ahmadinejad..."



------

This is rather amazing news.

"Peres said he had invited Lula to visit Israel. 'I understand that he will also visit the Palestinian side. I know he is friendly with the Palestinians, and we would also like to be. With serious and firm support (from Brazil) I know there can be a contribution,' Peres said."

Brazil has already been providing a good influence from the left, rivaling our own country's BAD influence, in Latin America. Why wasn't the rightful president of Honduras able to find refuge in the U.S. embassy in Honduras? No, instead the plane carrying the kidnapped president out of the country at gunpoint stopped at the U.S. military base in Honduras for re-fueling, apparently while the U.S. commanders at that base and the U.S. "Southern Command" were too busy playing "Invade Venezuela" video games to even notice. Brazil and its president made themselves the heroes of Latin America by sticking by President Zelaya through thick and thin, and they're still backing him and providing him with safe refuge in their embassy, and with their continued opposition to the coup government's farcical upcoming 'elections,' in tune with the rest of the world--while President Obama has permitted the Bushwhacks in Congress, the Pentagon, the diplomatic corps and the Puke Party to make a fool of him. Granted, the powers arrayed against Obama--and especially against Obama's stated policy of peace, respect and cooperation in Latin America--are virulent and dangerous. But still, he put himself in the spot he's in--running the U.S. imperium. Time to LEAD, Barack! Time to COMMAND. Time to take on the mantel of FDR and kick fascist butt!!!

Anyway, Lulu is now bringing his considerable diplomatic skills and his good heart to bear on the Middle East! Jee-zuzz. He does not shrink from difficult tasks in the cause of peace and justice. And he is in total accord with President Chavez of Venezuela on such peace efforts in Latin America, and has demonstrated this on numerous occasions, but perhaps most notably after the US/Colombia dropped ten 500 lb U.S. "smart bombs" on the FARC peace negotiator's temporary hostage release camp just inside Ecuador's border, in March 2008--an act that not only destroyed all hope for peace, at that time, in Colombia's 40+ year civil war, it nearly caused a war between the US/Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela. Lulu credits Chavez with preventing that war. He called Chavez "the great peacemaker." It is the dirty game of U.S. corpo/fascists to try to break up this friendship and "divide and conquer" the leftist alliances in Latin America. That's where the anti-Chavistas are getting this "talking point"--Lulu good, Chavez bad. Spin this fast enough and loud enough, and the hope is to make it a reality--to drive a wedge between them.

Well, Lulu just made it VERY CLEAR that they cannot. He is in accord with Chavez on a sovereign leader's right and even duty to meet with anyone he damn chooses, in the interest of his country and in the interest of world peace. He is in a sense following up on work that Chavez pioneered of countering the BAD U.S. policy of isolating and targeting Iran and making them fearful. The U.S. did to the Middle East in the 1950s what it did to Latin America in the 1970s-1980s--destroyed democracy and populist government, in the first case in favor of tyrannical "shahs" and sultans and kings, and in the second, in favor of similarly heinous, fascist dictatorships throughout Latin America. U.S. victims in the Middle East have much in common with U.S. victims in Latin America. Venezuela, Iran and Brazil also have a common interest in the oil industry. Venezuela and Iran (and also Ecuador) are members of OPEC. Brazil just had a huge new oil find in its northern waters. Chavez and Lulu are strongly committed to use of their oil for bootstrapping the vast poor majorities in their countries, who were impoverished by their own rich elites in collusion with U.S. corpo-fascists. And both Chavez and Lulu have passionate commitments to democracy--that is, to real democracy, not the fake variety that we have here in the U.S.. In fact, Lulu said, of Chavez: "They can invent all kinds of things to criticize Chavez, but not on democracy!" He has stuck by Chavez through all the intense, relentless, and wholly undeserved demonization of Chavez by the U.S. government and our corpo-fascist press.

Lulu will not be "divided and conquered." And maybe together, he and Chavez can help Iran emerge from its medieval snail shell and join the modern world. It is one of the most potentially progressive countries in the Middle East--with one of the richest traditions of education and high culture--and was driven into itself by deliberate and highly destructive U.S. policy over the last 60 years.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The next step will have to be demonization of Lula, no doubt!
We'll start hearing Lula is anti-Semitic in no time at all.

He has real clout, too, as his country is ENORMOUS, similar in size to the Continental U.S. as I heard for the first time several years ago. And that's only ONE country in South America. It's cool seeing them come into their own in our lifetimes after so much domination from outsiders. and their coup puppets and juntss.

Lula's leadership looks better continually. He has accomplished so much.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's exactly what I was thinking. Lula has to be demonized
as one of Chavez's army of zombies. LOL
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Chavez is holding Lula's children as hostages. Lula is forced to go along with him.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I wouldn't meet with him
but Lula isn't anywhere near the moron that Chavez is.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. And there's a huge difference between meeting Ahmadi (Lula) and praising Ahmadi and Khomeney (Chavez
BRIC countries, Turkey, have all normal good relations with Iran. Venezuela has always had good relations with Iran as an OPEC associate.

But, from that point to the one where Chavez harshly defends the last elections in Iran, choosing the side of Khomeney/Ahmadi and insulting the iranian protesters by saying they're a bunch of pro-American oligarchs, there's a VERY long way to go.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. yes, very good points. and I don't think Lula should be legitimizing him either
with an official state visit.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I don't know whether the Iran protestors are genuine or are Chalabi types angling
to head the puppet government that the US would install after it topples the current one--if it ever succeeds--but you REALLY gotta wonder when the US claims to be "supporting democracy" anywhere. It hasn't done so anywhere--and, in fact, has done the opposite, sabotaging and destroying democracy and installing heinous dictators--since, oh, FDR and the post-WW II recovery plans in Europe and Japan. In fact, Iran is a good case in point. The US overthrew their democracy in the mid-1950s--because their very popular first president wanted Iran to control its own oil and use it for the benefit of the people (deja vu all over again), and installed the horrible 'shah' of Iran who inflicted the Iranian people with 25 years of torture and repression. The rise of the mullahs was a direct result of that horrid US policy.

Vietnam is another example. Their independence war hero Ho Chi Minh would have won Vietnam's UN-sponsored elections in the mid-1950s, and wanted to be an ally of the US, but the CIA nixed those elections and started prepping the war in which two million Southeast Asians would be slaughtered and over 55,000 US soldiers would die.

This miserable history of the US destroying democracy is never so apparent as in its brutal meddling in Latin America, especially during the Reagan horrors, during which thousands of teachers, mayors, religious advocates of the poor and other community leaders were slaughtered by US death squads operating from Honduras, in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and two hundred thousand Mayan villagers were slaughtered in Guatemala, after its mildly socialist democracy was overthrown by the CIA. The US furthermore destroyed democracy and installed vicious dictators in numerous South American countries.

Is the US interested in democracy today, anywhere? Or is it just pretending to, while our government serves the interests of US-based global corporate predators and war profiteers? Have we thrown off those global corporate predator and war profiteers overlords of our government? They are still dictating insurance mogul-run health care, fronted by rancid politicians whose hypocrisy on issues like abortion could, all by itself, pollute the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans; they are still dictating humongous 'defense' budgets that are, in truth, war budgets for US genocidal aggression in the Middle East and for pushing the US military presence into Latin America, through a country like Colombia with one of the worst human rights records on earth; they are still dictating our laws, and now even control our vote counting with 'TRADE SECRET' code in all the voting machines, owned and controlled by a handful of far rightwing corporations, with virtually no audit-recount controls. If the US government were interested in democracy, it would start with banning corporate-controlled voting machines, here, and restoring transparent elections, here.

But, very tragically, the US government is no longer the servant of the people; it is the servant of our corporate/war profiteer dictators, who are extremely hostile to democracy, here and everywhere else. So, when the US government and the corpo-fascist press gets all in a twitter over elections in Iran, it would be laughable if it weren't so bloody awful. Our government and its corporate/war profiteer overseers are no more interested in democracy in Iran than they are in Honduras--or Venezuela, or Ecuador, or Bolivia, or El Salvador, or Nicaragua, or Argentina, or Paraguay, or Mexico, or anywhere else. And whether or not the Iranian protestors are sincere becomes secondary to whether or not what they are doing serves US corporate/war profiteer interests. If they are sincere and manage to achieve a better democracy, and truly represent most Iranians, they will find themselves ousted, if not dead. That is one of the main REASONS that Iran now has a mullah-run system, because they cannot trust western-style democracy to protect them from corporate rule and worse. WE have taught them that. The true rulers of our country have made that very clear.

The success of the leftist democracy movement in Latin America is all the more remarkable because of this US history of virulent anti-democratic policy. Latin Americans are passionate about democracy, and have worked very hard to establish it and to defend it, one of the means being strong alliances such as the alliance between Chavez/Venezuela and Lulu/Brazil. The leaders elected by this remarkable movement have each other's backs, and have shown this time and again, in quite visible ways: Lulu's defense of Chavez; Chavez's defense of Correa in Ecuador; Batchelet (Chile), Lulu (Brazil) and Fernandez (Argentina)'s defense of Morales in Bolivia; Lulu's and Chavez's defense of Zelaya in Honduras, and Lulu's help to Lugo in Paraguay. United, they can achieve sovereignty and independence--and prosperity. "Divided and conquered," they cannot.

This new independence of Latin America also involves INDEPENDENT judgment--not dictated by the U.S.--of who these leaders of SOVEREIGN countries in Latin America choose to meet with, and make alliances with, in the interests of their countries and their region. The US can make alliances with the dirtbags running Saudi Arabia and Colombia. And Venezuela and Brazil can damn well make alliances with Iran. It is a very pointed message, on both Chavez's and Lulu's part. They and their compadres in most of the capitols in Latin America are fully aware of the US war machine, of the BAD intentions of US corporate rulers and war profiteers, and the utter hypocrisy of the US government's babble about democracy. They are in accord on asserting their sovereignty, and I believe they are acting in concert--with common assumptions and strategies--to assert it. It is the best thing that has ever happened--politically and economically--in Latin America. And I fervently hope that our overlords fail to defeat it, because its ultimate goal is PEACE.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hoping daily for the needed integration of Latin America. It's their time. n/t
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Lula is just looking out for Brazil
Realism is in order here. Chavez and Lula aren't on the same page at all. Chavez flirts with Iran because Chavez sees himself as a leader of the anti-American Empire left. Lula is just trying to get more business for Brazilian companies. And unlike Venezuela, Brazil does have goods it can sell Brazil, and its companies can work in Iran.

Neither Brazil nor Venezuela can influence Iran's internal politics, they lack the heft to do so. Whatever happens in Iran, will happen as a result of internal politics. The Iranian mullahs, like the Soviet kommisars, will eventually find themselves ruling people who are sick and tired of their poor results. Also, Iran isn't in a "medieval snail shell". Iranian society is in a reaction mode to the pernicious influence of American imperialism and hedonistic culture. I don't think the government which replaces the mullahs will be a big supporter of western culture, nor would they stop supporting the Palestinian cause.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-15-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. We are very aware of Lula here. We're also aware of Iran's history. n/t
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. "Lulu" saves the Middle East
I don't know who's "we", but it's a little funny to read Patriot's piece about "Lulu" having much of an impact in the Middle East, or changing Iran. As for Chavez, like aporrea says, he needs to start looking out for his own internal problems.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You are out of fuel when you start mocking long term posters for typos. n/t
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That's not a typo
Americans don't usually bother to get names right. But I like to visit Guashinton and Heeooston.
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