Just heard on msnbc that Biden is pushing to get our troops out of Afghanistan

[jillan]

Obama just ordered troops there to have their tour of duty extended...and Biden is fighting him on this.
And Obama wants to increase our troops there.

Chuck Hagel is speaking out against this war too.


Oh, if only Americans would have concentrated on substance, not glamor during the primaries....and if only the msm would
have gotten off Joe's back. I'm with Keith Olbermann right now. Where is that man that promised change and hope? And as for Joe, I am only more impressed. I just wonder where he stands on the public option? Anyone know??

[jillan]

1. NYT talks about this -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/politics/04military.html?hp

[gateley]

3. When will they begin listening to Joe? I actually heard someone on the radio

(it was a sound bite and I didn't catch who the speaker was ) -- that we can't 'win' with a military approach. Just as Joe has always said, and his words have been borne out.

He may have a tough row to hoe on the Afghanistan thing -- but maybe O will listen to those who are in this school. I sure hop so.

[lyonn]

12. Well that article wasn't very reassuring....

So Joe is the only one with real concern and doubts about increasing troops there. That is not encouraging. Thank goodness he is there at all. Will anyone listen to him? This is all so wrong.

By the way, I think Joe should give the address on health care instead of Obama. And no, I am not an Obama basher. It's just that Biden has a way with words and can put the human aspect/touch into the health care issue in the right perspective. Making sure everyone has health care is the moral way to go.

[jillan]

14. Hi Lyonn - long time no see.

I remember during the primaries arguing out there that Biden was more progressive than most of the candidates.
No one would believe me. I keep thinking about when he addressed a GLBT crowd in Iowa and C-Span aired the rally.
He told the crowd to be patient, that attitudes in this country are changing...just look how far we've come over the last decade.
He didn't bs. He didn't make empty promises. He just told it like it is, and the crowd seemed to love him for it.

I am not an Obama basher...I want Obama to be successful. I'm just getting tired of waiting to see "Change we can believe in".

[lyonn]

15. Hi back at ya

This group was great. If there were questions concerning Biden there was always someone here to do the search. Such dedication and really nice people. Thanks all

[gateley]

2. He's totally for public option -- and although I become more and more

impressed by Obama, and actually have come around to the thinking that things turned out for the best (Obama/Biden) -- Joe would have been much stronger on this issue (probably any issue) not willing to sit back and take all the shit that's being thrown their way.

[jillan]

4. Joe never would've had a successful presidency because of the way

the media treats him. I do think that the way the ticket turned out is for the best, but I am getting a little nervous about some of the decisions that Obama is making...especially since Obama is still trying to please the repugs whose only goal is to bring him down.
It's so frustrating to watch. And a part of me wonders how things would be different if Joe was President.

[PatSeg]

5. We'll never know

as you can't predict what kind of president any person will be. Until they are in the Oval Office, THEY don't know what kind of president they would be.

I think the media would probably kiss Joe's ass if he was president. Journalists want access and do what is necessary to get that access. The VP is always an easy target and its really dumb to go after the VP because he/she is inclined to remember who said what if they ever end up president.

[jillan]

7. I guess it's silly to talk about what might have been.

[CrispyQ]

8. I believe Joe would have been a much better prez than Obama.

Not that I'm biased, of course! ;)

I hope I'm wrong about Obama, but what I see, so far, is a man who is trying to play both sides. This is not leadership, it's politics. What good is a majority in Congress & having the White House if every move has to be run past the frickin' repubs first? I didn't vote for bipartisanship. I voted for change. I think Joe has more leadership in his little finger than Obama possesses in whole.

If Obama ends up being a one term prez, he has only himself to blame.

[PatSeg]

9. I think its still to early to say

I would like to see a little more "bold" out of Obama, like his speech in Egypt. I know he has it in him. If he wants to be remembered as an exceptional or even great president, he has to lead as if he really doesn't care about being a two term president. I'm on a FDR kick the last few days and he faced similar problems. He really had "audacity" and won four presidential elections.

[jillan]

10. My conclusion is that Obama is just too nice.

It seems to me that he wants to please everyone.
Well look how far that's getting him.
What's that old saying - Nice guys finish last?

[jillan]

6. Andrea Mitchell started out her show reporting on this.

You can just call me the official msnbc reporter of the morning :)

[Muttocracy]

11. heard NPR talking about these divisions w/in admin too

David Brooks saying Biden wasn't exactly a dove, so for him to want to scale things back means something.

And that Obama really needs to define the mission to the public.

[jillan]

13. I must confess, I was pleasantly surprised when I heard Joe's position on Afghanistan.

I thought he'd be for this.

Interesting that Holbrooke agrees with Joe. Wasn't it you that watched those SFRC hearings when Holbrooke testified?
You could just tell that Holbrooke and Biden really listened to and had alot of respect for one another.

[elleng]

16. Seen this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/17/2009-08-17_obama_must_learn_from_vietnam_gen_wesley_clark_gives_the_president_advice_for_af.html?page=0