HAven't seen this much vitriol since the primaries

[Uben]

During the primaries we had some pretty heated battles here. We had the Edwards folks, the Clinton folks, and the Obama camp.
It got nasty then, too. Accusations were flying like a military drone, coming out of nowhere, striking, and assessing damage. Well, the Edwards folks were wrong. Their guy petered out...he lied to them and disappeared into obscurity. I think the ones attacking Obama now will suffer the same fate. They attacked, viciously, and lost. I think they picked the wrong hill to die on, but that's an opinion. We'll see how things pan out.

If this decision pans out and the economy really takes off, Obama will look like a genius and his distractors will look like chumps.
A rising economy will bode well for dem candidates in the upcoming elections, but it remains to be seen if the rift in the party will heal or will become an infection that spreads.

This is a pivotal moment in Obama's presidency. It appears he made a calculated decision to reach out to those on the other side while reaping a stimulus to the economy by getting UI extensions, tax credits and cuts for the middle class. This could be a springboard or a pair of lead boots.

One thing is for sure, Obama has taken the steam out of the deficit hawks on the republican side. They opted for running up the deficits in favor of their rich contributors over cutting spending. They can't say he hasn't tried to compromise and work together, and if his decision is right and the economy does take off, the good news could translate into gains for dems come 2012, and we all know that would be a good thing.

I voted for change and I feel I got it. You may not, but I do. The Bush administration governed for one side using every trick in the book to get their agenda passed. Had Obama done the same, we would not see change, just a different party doing the same thing.

The reality is, the game changes with the republicans taking the house. Strategies had to be rehashed to get things accomplished in the final two years of Obama's term. I think he has a good chance of still making a difference even with a republican house.


This is opinion....mine. I'm not always right but I am sticking with the guy I helped elect. I'm not bailing on him now.

Kiss me or kick me, this is how I feel right now.

[DrDan]

1. interested in a bridge?

[Uben]

2. Does it come with water?

LOL

[txlibdem]

15. That's rich

Good one! (especially considering the coming crisis of clean water worldwide, even right here in the USA).

:thumbsup:

[donco6]

3. I'll neither kiss you nor kick you.

Just shake my head in awe.

[Vinca]

4. I'm in a particularly foul mood this morning since I still cannot afford medical care

and have been struggling with a bout of sciatica that is as painful as a thousand toothaches. The latest Obama/Republican move is just about the final straw. When Joe Scarborough gleefully claims the Republicans didn't get nearly as much from Clinton, we should know we're in big trouble. Look for DADT to be extended. That is my final straw.

[chimpymustgo]

19. You're not holding out for cuts to Social Security and Medicare? So sorry for your pain, though.

This has been just another hellish shit sandwich served up by Obama.

[GoCubsGo]

5. How is this decision going to "pan out"?

These tax cuts have been in place since 2001. We lost 15 million jobs in that nearly 10 years--including mine. What makes you think all of a sudden things will finally "pan out"??? What part of "Nothing will change" don't you understand? This will not make the economy "take off." The only things that will be different are a larger deficit, and likely more federal cuts (which will probably translate into more job losses).

I'm glad you feel things changed for you. For me, it's the same as it was this time in 2007, only back then, I thought I might find a job soon and I still had a few bucks in the bank. Now, I'm broke, and I doubt I will ever work again. This is how I feel right now.

[LWolf]

6. Actually, Obama as president is proving me correct.

I always knew his nomination was a grave error.

As far as the primary wars go, I supported neither Clinton nor Obama, and my primary wasn't until late May, when there was no acceptable choice left standing. I wasn't part of that war.

There wasn't anything wrong with pointing out his obvious flaws then, and there certainly isn't anything wrong with doing so now.

[KharmaTrain]

7. This Shitstorm Was Predictable...

I guess anyone who didn't see this "compromise" coming were shocked...but the writing was on the wall that the tax cuts were going to be kicked down the road and that this administration had negotiated itself into a corner on that issue and others. The GOTB obstructionism is so pervasive that it has made it impossible to pass anything.

This is a shit sandwich...it was either the rich get their payoff or millions will go without UI benefits. This administration was scared shitless of letting the cuts lapse as the right wing and corporate media (hard to tell them apart) would pummel him and Democrats as being "tax and spend" and "Raising taxes". You see who this administration is really scared of and who they're playing to. Shameful but that's how it is.

There's no way I can fault those who are upset with this sell-out and the poor performance of this administration...many have been patient only to be let down time and time again. I do remain supportive of this administration since where else is there to go? Stay home and let the GOTB back in charge? Support a third party or challenge? Whom? I don't see anyone out there that would have the political skills and support to do much better than what we're seeing now...and possibly worse.

I also see the major fault as lying in a dysfunctional Senate that stopped many worthwhile bills Nancy Pelosi pushed through the house (and people around here still castigate her) and prevented many original plans of this administration. The focus should be about retaking the House and working to elect better, more Progressive Senators. Win the war of ideas rather than to stomp feet and curse the darkness. That's where too many are finding themselves this morning.

[bowens43]

8. "If this decision pans out and the economy really takes off, Obama will look like a genius "

ahh... wrong of course. If the economy recovers in a big way the Republicans will look like geniuses. The American people will see that the cons forced the tax break extensions through and they will get the credit for the recovery. The republican house and the republican filibusters n the Senate will get the credit. Obama will be seen as a chump.

Will it ever get so bad that you won't make excuses for this disastrous presidency?

[Uben]

11. Uhh..wrong!

The republicans won't get credit for it now just like they didn't get credit for the Clinton years of prosperity. The president owns the economy created in his term. Always has. You can have your own opinion but not your own facts. "Disastrous" is a subjective opinion and premature conjecture.

[Marr]

18. The economy is not a weather pattern.

There is zero chance of it just "getting better", because there have been no policies instituted that would make it do so.

I suppose you can say Obama would get the credit "if" it got better, but only in the same way that he would take the credit "if" we were invaded by space aliens tomorrow and he fought them all off with a baseball bat.

[txlibdem]

31. You forget that businesses are sitting on $2 Trillion in cash

That is enough to hire 20 million Americans and give them all a salary of $50,000 annually (doing the math and including the extra costs of having an employee: a 50k worker costs a business 75k annually).

Just 3 months ago it was $1.8 Trillion, now it is $2 Trillion. Businesses are collecting and holding onto their cash. They could open the flood gates at any time they want.

The effect on the economy of having 20 million new $50k workers would be an instantaneous kick start and the economy would be back to Clinton-era levels within a year. In case you need a translation: it would be booming and job creation from all that activity would be sky high as well.

[TexasObserver]

9. Fool me once ... shame on ... you. Fool me ... ya can't get fooled again!

I was one of those zealously defending then senator Obama during the campaign from all who found him wanting.

That lasted until six months into his term.

Unfortunately, the criticisms of him in the campaign turned out to be on point.

Now it's down to those who still believe he's doing a good job and those who don't.

[Uben]

12. I wasn't.....

... I was a Clinton supporter. I supported Obama when he won the nomination.

I like the guy. I like what he's doing with what he has and how he's doing it. Others disagree with my position, but I expect nothing less. Everyone has an opinion here.

[TexasObserver]

16. You broached the subject, and I told you my view of it.

[Mimosa]

10. No matter how much Obama compromises, he still gets called a 'leftist' all the time.

n/t

[Bandit]

13. In other words the Republicans have been right all these years...

There is no way in Hell this was a correct decision, unless of course Obama LIED to us for the two years before he was elected..He either LIED to us while campaigning or he is Lying to us now, which is it?

[somone]

23. From the 'Broken Clocks' file:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/28/AR2008082802852.html

The Perfect Stranger
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, August 29, 2008

Barack Obama is an immensely talented man whose talents have been largely devoted to crafting, and chronicling, his own life. Not things. Not ideas. Not institutions. But himself...

... The oddity of this convention is that its central figure is the ultimate self-made man, a dazzling mysterious Gatsby. The palpable apprehension is that the anointed is a stranger -- a deeply engaging, elegant, brilliant stranger with whom the Democrats had a torrid affair. Having slowly woken up, they see the ring and wonder who exactly they married last night.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[live love laugh]

14. I am so sick of all the fucking whining here that I cut my time spent here.

This tax issue is "the last straw"? I thought it was DADT...or no was it Obamacare? For many every issue is the last staw b/c they are not Obama supporters. I see more criticism here of Obama than I saw of Bush and Lord knows we criticized Bush.

I support Obama and any fool who doesn't--who thinks the Republicans will do better--go for it.

[closeupready]

37. You can have the moderators close your account, if it's such a burden.

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

40. like "America love it or leave it eh?" I'm glad that they're not leaving

as a result of some of the silly attitudes flying around this place lately. As the OP says, things have been tortured here before, on all kinds of issues- and I'm sure they will again.

The sarcasm doesn't really help, but it's your perogative.

It is disturbing that sometimes this DU can become a negative experience, on those occasions backing away is a good thing.
If everyone closed out their accounts because of the vitriol, then DU wouldn't be the place it's been for the last 10yrs. imo.

[closeupready]

42. No, more like, "If DU doesn't change to suit me, I'm taking my fabulousness and going home."

Think Italian for "First Lady".

That said, I'm fine if there is a healthy difference of opinions here.

For those who wish that DU marched in lockstep with DC party insiders and the corrupt Beltway, the door is over there.

[txlibdem]

17. Vitriol: well deserved IMO

When you stab your base in the back time and time again, should you expect a ticker tape parade? Or should you expect a little backlash?

I was one of the most rabid and energetic Obama supporters despite my disability. I have now switched my opinion 180 degrees. I want to see a Democrat on the ticket in 2012 --that means we have to dump Obama.

[Erose999]

20. How will the tax cuts for the rich create jobs again? I must have missed something over the past 10

years since the Bewsh cuts passed. I guess they just need another 4 years...

[somone]

21. Obama is the worst possible Democrat

to occupy the Oval Office. He can't wait to give away the store at every turn.

[txlibdem]

29. You mean he is the worst "center-right Republican" in the Oval Office

He is NO Democrat. That much I can tell you.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

22. let's look at the flip side of the same coin

In thirteen months, the Republicans have come to Jesus about the deficit and say to Obama, "In exchange for cutting (or privitizing) SS, we will let them eat cake."

When won't they hold UI over our head?

That's a worse scenario than this deal, Uben.

[Uben]

25. That's your opinion.....

..and I respect that, I just disagree with it. I think Obama is smarter than you think he is.

Look at it as having a box of Legos. You can only do so much with it, but you can do a lot of things with what you have. The secret is creativity. My money is on Obama.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

27. cool

:hi:

[txlibdem]

24. Please, please lay off John Edwards for the time being due to Elizabeth's condition

We need to be sending prayers and good thoughts to Elizabeth Edwards who is losing her battle with cancer. She is on pain management only at this point. Anyone who, like me, has lost a loved one to cancer knows what that means.

Please send well wishes to the Edwards family.

[Uben]

26. History is history

My prayers are with Elizabeth Edwards, not with the man who cheated on her and deceived his followers. My wife is a cancer survivor.
I have been down that road more than you will ever know. I have lost several loved ones to cancer. My father, a best friend, a neice, my wife's father, and a next door neighbor. Horrible disease that touches everyone's lives.

[txlibdem]

28. 'Nuff said I suppose

You have your opinion and I have mine. I'm much more inclined to forgive John for having needs. Perhaps you have a wife that takes care of your needs. I, and I believe John, do not. Since she became aware of my disability my wife has practically ended our love life. Every normal red blooded man needs to feel that human connection and when your wife refuses to give that, derides and insults you when you bring it up, it is not a fun situation to be in. I can imagine a man of means such as Edwards being able to find a little comfort where he can. DU is big enough for us both to coexist, you with your perspective and I with a more open mind regarding John Edwards and that's ok with me.

[Uben]

34. Buddy, you are so wrong!

Since my wife's cancer 8 yrs ago, sex has been all but non-existent. It is a physical change in her body that has made it very uncomfortable for her. I won't go into details. My marriage is not based on sex. I don't have any needs that would compel me to betray her trust. At this point in our life, we are just thankful for each day we have together. Sex is not necessary to survive.
We had many years of a healthy sex life, but now are relegated to a life without it. It's unfortunate, for sure, but we are playing the cards we were dealt.

[txlibdem]

39. We're all entitled to our opinion and I don't know how old you are or what meds

You may be on meds that reduce or eliminate your desire or ability in that arena. That's not an insult, millions of Americans are in that situation. Or perhaps you naturally have a low libido. All those are perfectly natural for a person in your position and I understand and accept you for who you are.

Please do the same for people who have different body chemistries and/or different life situations. I'm not judging you or name calling. My comment was about my own situation and (BTW) our role is reversed: my wife is perfectly healthy and I am disabled. My wife has decided to end our sex life and I wish to continue it.

PS, my condolences on your wife's condition. I hope and pray for a full remission and recovery.

[Uben]

43. Thanks....

I'm not on any meds at all and have no impairments at all. She takes enough to choke a mule every morning and evening. We are in our late fifties now. Her cancer was "hormone receptive" which means hormones are a no-no for her now, and her doc said that is the reason for her condition. I have mourned the loss of sex, but at our age, it is less important.

Look, I realize a younger man's sex drive is higher...been there. But even at that age, I think my love for her outweighed my desires. I believe John Edwards to be a narcissist, not uncommon for a politician. I think he puts his needs above all else, and I base my assumptions on his actions. He was well aware that if his affair surfaced, he was doomed. At risk was his marriage as well as a presidential campaign that entailed the support of millions of supporters and the millions of dollars they raised for him. Sex was more important. It doesn't get much more narcissistic than that.

[Renew Deal]

30. People want a left wing Bush

I asked the question last night. Obama is winning, but I don't believe it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9707481&mesg_id=9707481

[txlibdem]

33. Maybe they focused on the criminal acts of the Bush Administration

I wonder what would be the outcome if the two choices were Clinton vs Obama, or FDR vs Obama...

[frylock]

50. people want a left wing..

i voted bush in your crap poll as an FU. i suspect many others did the same.

[Little Star]

32. Get use to it.

People don't take kindly to being stood up at the alter.

[Individualist]

35. No sale.

[closeupready]

36. Unrecced

.n/t

[Uben]

44. Thanks.....

I was going for the record! LOL

[closeupready]

47. Nothing personal, of course.

:) I just don't agree with your tone, and I may be wrong on that, but you can feel free to unrec every single thread I start from this point forward. :D

Peace.

[Uben]

49. No offense taken

I don't pen my opinions for recs and certainly don't mind differing opinions. That's the "discussion" part of this board. I don't use the rec/unrec feature but I don't mind it either. Nine yrs here has thickened my skin considerably.

Peace on you!

[Dappleganger]

38. Guess I missed most of it.

The president's actions and compromise were not any surprise to me so I didn't go off the deep end. Like my husband said, everybody got their christmas pony except that one group of people's ponies will die within a year and the other group's ponies are magical pinatas full of wealth which they will never re-invest into the US economy. This was my moderately conservative husband's statement.

[Bluerthanblue]

41. I'll "wreck" this thread & will be sticking with

the guy I helped elect as well.

thanks for sharing this.

[treestar]

46. So many just infuriated that Republicans exist, that the SEnate has

power, that the Presidency is not sort of parallel to the powers of Kim Il sung and that the POTUS is not the poster's puppet (with those powers).

They want a hero to worship and follow. A LEADER! THey don't like that messy situation defined in the US Constitution.

The hero they worship will give them everything! For now, they are stuck with leaker Julian, the can't-be-a-rapist (that would ruin the hero status).

[leeroysphitz]

48. I do miss the part of the primaries where all the candidates at least pretended to be Democrats. n/t

That was fun.

[frylock]

51. it sure lent one HOPE, didn't it?