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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 09:33 AM
Original message
The Irish Miracle...in Smithereens
Edited on Wed Nov-17-10 09:43 AM by alcibiades_mystery
How are the mighty fallen! Collector of bad and doubtful debts.
- James Joyce, Ulysses

Axiom: Extremely low or no corporate taxation attracts businesses, which create jobs, which spur economic growth, which leads to strong and stable societies. Doubt it? A couple of years ago, you would have been pointed to the glowing example of this axiomatic truth, the much ballyhooed Celtic Tiger, the Miracle of Ireland. Emerging, we were told, from generations of backwards European welfare state mentality, the Irish had landed on the fundamental truth of neoliberal economic policies, and the country was booming. There, they cried! Look there! Do you see how your leftist and liberal principles are destroyed in practice? Do you see how Ireland surges into general prosperity by following the dictates of the Chicago School? Can you admit now, oh backwards leftists, that you are wrong, so very wrong?

It turns out the whole thing was a sham.

Now it is everybody falling ass over teakettle to "save" the Celtic Tiger - the European Commission, the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund. The Celtic Tiger takes on an increasingly Greek glow, is mentioned in the same breath as the backward Greek economy, disastrous. Every bank in the country is on or over the precipice. The government pretends it can rescue them without being rescued itself, as its deficit nears a third of GDP. A fucking third of GDP! If you were worried about the US deficit, it should be noted for comparison purposes that it stands at approximately 7% of GDP. Let me repeat: Ireland's budget deficit stands at 32% of GDP. The Celtic Tiger! The philosophy of low taxation. The fiscal well-being of the society in near collapse, in just a few short years of neoliberal stupidity.

And this would be enough to teach the ideologues that their axiom is false, yes? No. Of course not. They're fanatics of the worst kind. Here's what the New York Times tells us:

Germany in particular is pushing Ireland to raise its corporate tax rate of 12.5 percent, one of the lowest in the euro zone, to reduce its deficits. But Dublin is resisting this sort of intrusion in its affairs, Mr. Lucey said. A tax rate that Germany and other European nations see as unfair competition is viewed in Dublin as a critical element in its economic success, past and future.


It's a critical element of their "economic success!" They have a deficit of 32% of GDP, and low corporate taxation is a "critical element of their economic success!" (One does not fail to note that the New York Times stoops so low as to suggest other motives for Germany's reasonable request: raise taxes to lower your deficit. Oh, the neoliberals at the Times suggest, in an off-hand way, the Germans are really worried about the competition. From Ireland! It is to laugh. We should note that the Germans were fretting recently about budget deficits in the range of 3.5% of GDP.)

There it is, ladies and gentlemen. Your Irish Miracle, the shining example of neoliberal low-taxation economics. The Irish Miracle, in smithereens.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Coming soon to a U.S, near you. nt
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Damn good point. I love seeing the right-wing talking points crushed like a bug . . .
Edited on Wed Nov-17-10 11:02 AM by mistertrickster
under the relentless heel of reality.

On edit:

http://forexnewsnow.com/forex-intelligence/ireland-crisis-update-and-outlook/

The sovereign debt problems with Ireland continue today, as the beleaguered country agreed in principle to a bailout framework created by euro zone finance ministers on Tuesday.

Ireland’s debt problems continue to resurface, providing more negative forex trading news for the euro and prolonging concerns about the long-term viability of the euro zone’s health.
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Recommend.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. The corporate tax rate here must be next to nothing...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't understand?
:shrug:
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. i was wondering if the rate was 12.5 in ireland(which is too low)
then in the rate America is probably less than half that...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. US Corporate tax rates are higher at the federal level
lower (to non-existent) at the state level:

Federal Corporate Tax

Amount of tax
(1) In general
The amount of the tax imposed by subsection (a) shall be the sum of—
(A) 15 percent of so much of the taxable income as does not exceed $50,000,
(B) 25 percent of so much of the taxable income as exceeds $50,000 but does not exceed $75,000,
(C) 34 percent of so much of the taxable income as exceeds $75,000 but does not exceed $10,000,000, and
(D) 35 percent of so much of the taxable income as exceeds $10,000,000.
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donnamarie Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is said to be a good read
"Feckers: 50 People Who Fecked Up Ireland" by John Waters and their current Prime Minister (Cowan) is also their ex-Minister for Finance - no skeletons in closets there.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's getting damned obvious our financial systems are stupid.
Money isn't what we think it is.

People worked, people built things, and that's the reality. Then the system goes stagnant and people don't work, the people on the bottom suffer, and the people on top start to rot.

The only way to stop that cycle is to drain the pools of stagnant wealth.
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. .
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Flaws and Failings of Neoliberalism - an Irish perspective
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/91903
<snip>
The system of economics which we have lived by for well over a decade has given us the many benefits of a booming economy- higher wages, a better standard of living, and an overall sense of happiness and well being. But what of those left behind? What of the multi-national companies, and profit driven banks, who take full advantage of the elitist and greedy philosophy of this system driven totally by profit? It's time to ask ourselves tough questions of the system we live under and how it affects us in our own lives, and in the lives of the most vulnerable in society.

The fundamental flaw in the system we all seem to cherish is the complete lack of regard for people and their well being it has, along with it’s reward system for the most greedy and ruthless who we so eagerly call “entrepeneurs”. The elite control vast amounts of wealth, power and influence within a country governed not particularly with the view of for the people, but also in tune with the needs of the wealthy and rich in society, who bankroll politicians at every election time. (It is estimated that the top 1 percent of Irish citizens own 40 percent of the country’s wealth). The system, like all capitalist systems, believes in the trickle effect (that increased wealth from the top must make it’s way to the bottom). While this can be said to be true in a way, it is mostly not the case. There are many in our society who face struggling by on an average weekly income of around €300 a week and who gain little from the inadequate public services the Government provides. The extravegant bonuses paid to bankers, CEOs, and industrialists for very poor results run into many times greater than the average income of a Social Welfare recipient.
It is astounding that we have not pondered over the failings of our system more. Because of the greed and strive for more, more, more we have not only left behind those forgotten during the boom, we have deprived many thousands more of their jobs, pensions, and in some cases their hope. We have squandered our opportunity to genuinely provide for the most vulnerable in our society with a world class health system, a fair education system to the benefit of all and to provide a decent standard of public infrastructure to make travel and communication more sustainable. We have left many burdened with the debts of the property boom, and have condemnded the country’s own finances to oblivion for the years to come.
This neglect of our fellow man, our fellow citizen is built within this system, a system which causes misery for the majority when it all goes wrong, and which keeps a small powerful class of people in control of our media, our politics, and our economy no matter what. We have all been caught up in the buzz of the past 10 years- I myself have had a childhood of much more plenty than any generation before me. But let it be known that a system that runs just on money, without any care or regard for the well being of the people behind it, is one destined to fail. A system which guarantees that every 20-30 years, many millions of people lose their jobs and which keeps the worst off in society at the bottom, is one that cannot be continued. Let us ask questions of the system we live under- now is our chance to reform and take into account people, the environment, and sustainability- and that the failings of yesterday are learned and taken into account for the planning of tomorrow.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Interesting
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Castles in the sky...n.t
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ireland has big problems.
Information was out on the country's developing problems months back in tight financial circles. Smart money avoided the country. The country's travails are sad to see. Don't expect money changers to help out without a pound of Irish flesh being extracted.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yet, this is the plan we've been pursuing for 30 years and continue to pursue today.
Where's our representation?
:kick: & R

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