So, routine groping is just fine, after all we must be safe.

[Warren Stupidity]

And there was the underwear bomber, so despite the fact that virtual or physical groping will not actually prevent another determined underwear bomber, we all must now submit on demand to groping by TSA officials.

In the future a determined suicide bomber will insert the explosives in anus or vagina, as the bomber sees fit, and another attack will be attempted.

So, will we all then bend over and spread, like the prisoners that we in fact are?

[avaistheone1]

1. Survey says

:sarcasm:

[Poboy]

18. Effective graphic. very good. -nt

[LibDemAlways]

39. Love the graphic. Says it all. n/t

[derby378]

2. Before that happens, I think we'll be carrying guns to airports

Hopefully we won't have to resort to that, but people everywhere just want to be free. Reasonably safe, yes, but free.

[texastoast]

21. If we can't bring our guns on the plane, then we are not free, right?

I'm working on my teabagger mindset. Guns at airports, and Medicaid cut off for old people in nursing homes.

Working on my new TB groove.

[notesdev]

3. Hell yeah!

Without random body cavity searches, this country will be destroyed by ass-bombers!

[avaistheone1]

6. You heard it here first folks

[notesdev]

9. that makes my day! -nt

[awoke_in_2003]

12. you should be around me...

after eating Zatarains Red Beans and Rice. I am surprised DHS hasn't got me yet :)

[Yeahyeah]

17. Is that what they meant by "dirty nukes"?

[kestrel91316]

4. I am perfectly ok with groping. Just ask my favorite male companion.

[leftofcool]

5. Well, alright by me as long as I can pick the groper...

as the gropee in question, my groper better by damn be an adorable, under 30 male.

Left of Cool

[Initech]

7. It's my personal opinion that the TSA is just fucking with us at this point.

[Newest Reality]

8. It stands to reason

that the more intimate and slow the groping of intimate body areas, the more safe we will be.

So, in order to prevent more terrifying terrors performed by terrorist persons, a rather satisfying search should be something like foreplay and if something terrible is found that we can all be afraid of, (or someone gets too stimulated, especially if they are not taking their officially prescribed US meds) that would be the equivalent to a big O.

It simply has to be re-framed as a potentially satisfying, relief-giving opportunity for both inspectors as well as for inmates of all ages.

[avaistheone1]

10. We must defend

the Terror Industial Complex at all costs

[madokie]

11. Me and my wife have been married 20 years and I'll bet if I start groping her

she'll slap the piss out of me and I wouldn't blame her in fact I'm the same way. Don't get me wrong we grope each other but our mood is the difference there. We've let the terrorist of our own making, I might add, win because taking away our freedoms is their stated goals. Thats what they're after.

Our politicians and corporations are going to have to learn that they can't just do to the world as they please and then we can have peace but not until. Who taught these assholes how to act anyway, it damn sure wasn't my mom cause she'd a jerked everyone of them up by their ears for thinking they can just run around taking advantage of everyone who they come across. Our policies is why we're despised as we are where we are. Clean up our act and the terrorist has no reason to fight fire with fire as that is what they're doing because we're terrorizing many of them in many different ways but its still the same.

[arbusto_baboso]

13. Yeah, what the hell is this? The Japanese subway?

[napi21]

14. I don't like this groping thing either, but what is YOUR solution topeople who

believe they want to die for a cause and are resorting to hiding explosives in their body cavities, shoes, underware, and anywhere else they believe will work for their cause? The insanity of that culture has caused many people to be afraid of all muslims because they appear to be the poeple who have created aan extremist cult to acheve their goal. I HATE that so many fear 3 billion people but I can understand why. I admit, I don't have an answer, but do you?

[Warren Stupidity]

20. I suggest that we refuse to surrender dignity for alleged safety.

That our intelligence services, on which we spends billions of dollars every year, be responsible for providing adequate intelligence to prevent a serious attack, without all of us submitting to getting finger fucked by some tsa jackass.

Perhaps, nine years into this crisis, we might start considering WHY THEY ARE WILLING TO KILL THEMSELVES, and what we might do to actually end this crisis, rather than acquiesce to this insanity as the new normal.

But at least you have honestly answered 'yes' you prefer having somebody stick their hand up your butt to keep you supposedly safe from the absurdly minimal risk that you will die in a terrorist attack on an airplane.

[The Doctor.]

28. Hey! If you don't take it in the rear, the TERRORISTS WIN!!##&!!!

:scratchhead:

Yeah, I'm still kind of working on that one myself.

My solution? Every guy put an 18" salami in a 'strategic location' before going through the scan. Watch the TSA faces.

[nunyabidness]

61. "submitting to getting finger fucked by some tsa jackass." and

"having somebody stick their hand up your butt" .Is that really what they do at the airport? I`ve been to the airport and have not seen such behavior. If you don`t like it, don`t fly.

[Warren Stupidity]

78. That is where this is going.

The response to the virtual strip search is already to use body cavities. So as soon as we get the ass bomber or the vagina bomber incident it will be the prison bend-over or its high-tech million-dollar per station equivalent.

[tavalon]

24. How about we stop being a bunch of terror filled ninnies?

We are no more nor less safe riding on an airplane than we were on Sept 10 or 12th. They don't bother to check cargo - ergo this is just a dog and pony show and they've just taken it too far. None of the things TSA does make us any safer. It's all make believe and I, for one am done playing the game.

[shanti]

25. you can't live in fear n/t

[seabeyond]

27. if they hide in body cavities and explosive in underwear that cant be picked up by scanners

what good does the naked scanner or the groping do for either situation?

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I do

pre-emtion not reaction, this includes very solid threat assessments and intel work.

Dogs, they are effective, these machines not so much.

Yes, interview EVERY PASSENGER, with TRAINED personnel

The metal detectors are fine...

For god sakes check everything going onto the belly of the plane...

I could go on, but there are experts who have told OUR government, shhh. what you are doing ain't working... want some help?

Nope, if we did, we'd not buy them machines and contracts would have to be cancelled, that not be proper or customary. I mean the Corruption most go on.

[LibDemAlways]

40. The Israelis have very effective airport security that does not

involve sexual assault. I suggest we learn from them.

[napi21]

43. The US would NEVER accept Israelis tactics for security.

First & formost, their interrogators have total authority. If one of them says "YOU DON'T FLY" then you don't get on a plane & they don't even have to give a reason. Many times their reason is I got a bad vibe or I just didn't like his looks or attitude. The broker who handles our 401K is Jewish & he and several friendws took a trip to Israel last year. They interview everyone who tries to enter the country too. He told me it was iffy for quite a while wether he was going to be allowed out of the airport. The interviewer wasn't convinced he was really there for good reasons.

[LibDemAlways]

44. And our TSA goons don't have total authority? Tell that to the guy

who refused to be sexually assaulted in San Diego the other day and was not allowed past the "security" checkpoint.

I'd rather be interviewed by a professionally trained security officer than groped by some moron who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

[napi21]

46. Well disagree if you wish, but no TSA rep can just say I didn't like his look! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Yes, they have that authority

By the way the system works fine in Mexico city and a huge free clue, INS also has the authority to interrogate and keep people out of the US, and they do this regularly.

[truth2power]

52. Stop blowing up their kids. eom

[Forkboy]

53. +1

[uppityperson]

58. Help them in ways THEY want to improve their education and healthcare systems

[scarletwoman]

15. As long as there's a happy ending. (nt)

[lonestarnot]

16. Just think of the experience they can put on their resumes! Whewwhew.

[LibDemAlways]

42. 2010 - Professional groper for TSA - Groped genitals of

flying public.

(I suppose this might have some value on a resume if one was looking for employment in a brothel or a porn video. Short of that, can't see that it would be of much value to any legit. employer.)

[KillCapitalism]

19. Bin Laden & Co. are laughing their asses off right now.

The going joke when you go to the airport now is "Don't drop your boarding pass."

[texastoast]

22. GIVE IT UP!

Of course, the dear-to-the-DU'er's-heart Founding Father quote that comes to mind is the one about those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

[shanti]

23. i'm getting a chance to test this thing out

on saturday....and again on the return trip. should be fun! :eyes: if given a choice, i will go thru the xray machine rather than have someone touch me. i don't fly often (1x a year maybe?), but it's the principle of this bs that irks me! next reservation will be by train!

[treestar]

26. It's not a groping

Why do people presuppose a sexual intent?

It's only about bombs. And not letting them blow people up.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Sticking your hand in somebody else's crotch is a 'grope'.

But carry on. How many planes have been blown up by underwear bombers?

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Better question, outside of the US and the UK

how many primary targets (read Europe and Israel) will accept these toys or tactics?

This is not a coincidence.

[treestar]

47. Almost one, but that would be more than enough

And who would get blamed? The TSA.

There is no sexual intent. I got a mammogram and the radiologist really handled by boobs a lot. That was not a groping. They were doing a test to make sure I don't have something wrong. No sexual intent, just medical.

This has no sexual intent. Heck, they probably hate it. It's a security issue.

[Warren Stupidity]

69. 'almost one' would be zero.

And so far all three alleged incidents since 9-11 have involved international flights, and none of them have risen to the level of even a close call. So, in order to prevent the ZERO annual deaths from in-flight terrorist attacks you are just gung-ho about having everyone groped nude-photographed with some fancy new radiating device and pretty soon orifice-probed in order to fly. All of which is simply outside of that antiquated document known as the Bill of Rights.

We get the government we deserve. Shame on us.

[shanti]

54. that's because

they are probably looking for DRUGS, not bombs! that's my theory anyway.

[The Doctor.]

32. Is it a 'feel for freedom'?

A 'Security Squeeze'?

A 'Patriotic Petting'?

Perhaps a 'Grope for Hope'?

I could go all night. ;)

[TheKentuckian]

33. Because on the receiving end you still get groped whatever the intent of the groper

We have a right to be secure in our persons, cops don't even grope people during a frisk.

You cannot have reasonable suspicion of the society at large, there must be a reason why an individual is searched. I do not at all subscribe to the unconstitutional police state batshit interpretation designed to bring us to such a place.

[treestar]

48. Did they have any such indication on the crotch bomber?

that's the trouble. Are you really into risking it? Most of us know the odds are it won't happen, so it's too easy to say.

What of medical "groping?" If you say the intent does not matter, would you object to a mammogram or a pelvic exam? Those are pretty intrusive. But people don't complain. So the intent does matter.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

66. When you hold still for a pelvic exam

is it because you are being forced to or because you are there at your own free will?

Here's another way of looking at it; If you hold still for sex with your boyfriend, husband or a total stranger of your choice, does that make it okay for someone to force you to have sex against your will?

Are you capable of seeing the difference?

Please take the time to find out why these assaults by TSA are not making us safer.

[TheKentuckian]

79. Risk it? You'll risk it not matter how much you let the state probe you "for your safety"

Yeah, I'll risk it and comparing this to a voluntary examination for a detectable ailment is not in the same neighborhood as effectively strip searching and/or groping citizens with zero suspicion, no reasonable cause, no nothing.

The person going for a prostrate exam or a mammogram wants the procedure. The paying customer wants transit be it on a plane, a train, the bus, or in order to drive their personal vehicle on roads, highways, and bridges. Hell, the sidewalk, why not? Its for safety! Why not your bedroom? There **could** be terrorist activity in there! A plot to kill thousands, don't worry because if you have nothing to hide what difference does it make?

It is pretty sad that a really shitty morning will cause millions to dismiss hundreds of years of hard fought and slowly won enumerated rights in search of the illusion of safety without nary a thought.

[TorchTheWitch]

34. it doesn't need to be a sexual intent

Do you not understand the definition of sexual assault? It's the person being touched that determines whether or not that touch is an assault, not the person doing it. It doesn't MATTER whether or not the TSA agent doing the genital touching has a sexual intent or is just doing their "security" job. What DOES matter is how the person being inappropriately touched feels about it. How many times it it necessary to explain to people that sexual assault is not about sex, it's about POWER???

I'm thoroughly disgusted with so many people HERE of all places excusing intimate touching of the private places by strangers which they KNOW does not in any way improve security as if it's nothing and that there is something WRONG with those of us that are grossly offended by it whether because of the intimacy or the unwarranted privacy invasion or both. It was not long ago that here on DU we were all laughing at Freepers hiding under their beds with the bottles of water and canned tuna after duct taping plastic on their windows and here people are excusing what is literally sexual assault by any definition WITHOUT PROBABLY CAUSE as just dandy. I could fucking puke.

MOST people are not comfortable with a stranger intimately touching their private areas for ANY reason regardless of the intent of the person who is doing the touching is. MOST people only want those places touched by people they know and trust and ONLY at those times when they are feeling intimate. MOST people rightfully feel that being touched in intimate personal places by strangers when they don't want them to is humiliating at the LEAST after a lifetime of being taught that your personal intimate body parts are you own to have touched by whom and under what circumstances they choose for themselves.

Traveling on an airplane is NOT sufficient probable cause to be virtually strip searched or touched in intimate places anymore than walking down the street is sufficient probable cause or driving on the roadway or sitting on one's own porch, etc.

Never in my life did I ever think that AMERICANS would argue FOR a virtual strip search or intimate touching for the illision of security and certainly not here on DU of all places. I'm so revolted, and not for once because of what our government is doing but what professed PROGRESSIVE Americans are advocating.

[Celtic Raven]

35. Very well said

:applause:

:yourock:

[LibDemAlways]

41. + 100,000,000 Thank You!

[treestar]

49. What of medical tests?

I've been "groped" to get a pelvic exam and a mammogram.

As to the TSA, I'm not sure, but I don't want to be on the wrong plane. I don't think I'd like it, but it's less intrusive than a pelvic exam. If it keeps bombs off the plane, I think I would be able to take it.

[shanti]

56. TSA are not medical people!!

good grief :eyes: they're similar to freaking rent a cops - screw 'em!

[Boudica the Lyoness]

65. When you hold still for a pelvic exam

is it because you are being forced to or because you are there at your own free will?

Here's another way of looking at it; If you hold still for sex with your boyfriend, husband or a total stranger of your choice, does that make it okay for someone to force you to have sex against your will?

Are you capable of seeing the difference?

Please take the time to find out why these assaults by TSA are not making us safer.

[shanti]

55. thank you

you said it!

[madinmaryland]

76. I wish I could recommend your post. It disgusts me that people here

are fine with getting stripped searched or groped in the name of security.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Might I suggest a careful read of the Fourth Amendment

as well as the definition of Sexual Assault?

By the way I got a sneaky that if this was Bush doing it you'd be screaming.

[treestar]

50. The Fourth Amendment doesn't really come into play

One is not being accused of a crime. One is presumably undergoing this because everyone is, so that a bomb doesn't get onto the plane.

If Bush were doing it, I don't think I'd be screaming. Not on this. The wars, yet. But this stuff is practical ways of avoiding terror attacks (whereas the wars are not and just create more terrorists).

If anything, it showed more Bush incompetence when that kid got on a plane with something to test them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Re-read it again, carefully

Something about safety and persons, you might want to read a good history of the revolution and the why for it.

Oh and free clue, this will not stop a bomb from coming aboard. Not me saying it, but security experts who are laughing their asses off in private.

[Warren Stupidity]

72. how odd...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

...please try reading that again.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

45. They say rape isn't about sex either

"Sexual assault may include rape, forced vaginal, anal or oral penetration, forced sexual intercourse, inappropriate touching, unwanted grabbing, forced kissing, child sexual abuse, or the torture of the victim in a sexual manner".

It's also Domestic Terrorism.

"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion".

[treestar]

51. They are trying to keep a bomb off the plane, not terrorize you into

anything! What could they be terrorizing you for? At most into not flying. And what good does that do any would be tyrant?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Safetykitten]

57. Very true.

[Greyhound]

60. Groping is in the eye of the gropee. It is undeniably a violation of privacy. n/t

[Lucian]

63. You're an idiot.

It IS groping. Being touched inappropriately when you don't want to be touched, especially in your nether regions, is the very definition of groping. I don't want some TSA asshole feeling around my balls for a few seconds for supposed bombs.

I will not give up my dignity to fucking fly as long as TSA assholes get a free pass at groping passengers.

[Harry Monroe]

75. If it's only about bombs, then why do they want to touch my penis?

Just sayin'.

[lostnfound]

36. Wonder who this affects eggs, sperm and embryos? nt

[lostnfound]

37. Wonder who this affects eggs, sperm and embryos? nt

[nunyabidness]

59. First off, why is it the tendency to take things to the farthest level to bolster a weak argument?

Second, how much worse would it be to be fondled or groped by an explosion at fifty-thousand feet?

[Forkboy]

62. ....

:crazy:

[Warren Stupidity]

70. Yeah I was totally wrong when I predicted we would all be stripped

for flight a few years ago. I had no clue about back scatter virtual strip searches but I saw clearly where the New Security State bullshit was going.

[seabeyond]

71. since a bomb has nothign to do with naked scanners or groping, your argument fails. nt

[Harry Monroe]

73. That's the day I quit flying FOREVER!!!

[Harry Monroe]

74. Oh, routine groping is just fine by me

As long as they buy me dinner first!!

[shimmergal]

77. People--

let's bring some sense into this discussion.

First, it's all very well to say, "If you don't like it, don't fly." If you need to go somewhere in North America that can work, albeit sometimes with an investment of hours of driving time we've been trained not to think we can afford. I'm one of those people who doesn't fly if there's a reasonable way to get there otherwise, and sometimes it IS more inconvenient.

However, if you want or need to go anywhere "overseas" that's a forced choice. There's exactly ONE ship, to my knowledge, offering sea passage to would-be passengers, and that's now many times more expensive than most flights. I don't know of ANY non-air passenger service to Asia, or other parts of the world not continguous to the U.S.

So please don't quote that shibboleth "If you don't like it, don't fly" until we've reinstituted alternate ways to get across the world. Think before you speak.