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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 09:04 PM Original message |
Unless the U.S. universe has shifted a lot, the 2012 presidential election will be won in the middle |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 09:33 PM Response to Original message |
1. The flip side of this is that the electorate tolerates, and even insists on... |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 09:54 PM Response to Original message |
2. Hilary Clinton/Jeb Bush 2012 |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 09:57 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I can't see Bush as her running mate. n/t |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:00 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. :spray: omg you actually entertained the notion I was serious |
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PBS Poll-435 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:24 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. Behave. nt |
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DonCoquixote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:41 PM Response to Reply #4 |
12. I understand the laughs |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 01:15 AM Response to Reply #4 |
28. Well, Maybe Crist... |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:01 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. hey |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 01:21 AM Response to Reply #5 |
29. The U.S. will seriously support a very far right Republican... |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 05:49 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. I'm inclined to agree with that |
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Demeter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 09:44 AM Response to Reply #2 |
31. I can see that, Unfortunately |
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placton (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:06 PM Response to Original message |
6. How are things at the DLC these days? |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:10 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. it won three presidential elections in my lifetime |
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marmar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:17 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. I would argue that candidates Clinton and Obama were to the left of presidents Clinton and Obama |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:53 PM Response to Reply #9 |
14. yeah no shit |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:58 PM Response to Reply #9 |
15. Once they got into the office |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:22 PM Response to Reply #15 |
24. Republicans do *not* want to shrink government.. |
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Crunchy Frog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:04 PM Response to Reply #9 |
20. And President Nixon was to the left of both of them. |
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AndrewP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 10:02 AM Response to Reply #7 |
32. Y ou are making a reasonable point about Presidential Politics |
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Toucano (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:14 PM Response to Original message |
8. The word "middle" has very little meaning in politics. |
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BumRushDaShow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:36 PM Response to Original message |
11. K&R. Sad but true |
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paulk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 10:52 PM Response to Original message |
13. this is really too bad |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:01 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. that's an important point |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:01 PM Response to Original message |
16. If it means being a Republican like Party, who cares about |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:13 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. that's just simplistic rhetoric |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:15 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. so is your entire premise |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:27 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. the term is good enough |
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kctim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 10:14 AM Response to Reply #16 |
34. Really? |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:01 PM Response to Original message |
18. If your definition of the middle is more of what we've seen over the past two years |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:21 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. I see this presidency as more neo-moderate |
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Crunchy Frog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:03 PM Response to Original message |
19. The middle of what? |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:41 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. Fuckin A |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-09-10 11:46 PM Response to Original message |
27. Which "middle?" |
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RainDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 10:13 AM Response to Original message |
33. bullshit |
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ChoppinBroccoli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 10:42 AM Response to Original message |
35. Which Is Exactly Why Republicans Can't And Won't Win |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
36. It depends on how you define progressive |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 11:16 AM Response to Original message |
37. The "middle" was rejected by the voters in 2010. |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:02 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. so, we have a progressive Democratic majority in the Senate now? |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #41 |
47. And, why was that? Because the moderates were so able to sell their program to the voters? |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:37 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. It's not moderation that's in favor with voters right now |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:44 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. Maybe, this is whats needed. From a former Clinton WH guy. |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:47 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. sure, let's divide the party |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:51 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Not if the "Moderate" party wins. Which it has been doing for the last 42 years. |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:59 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. that's the fault of the electoral college system of electing presidents |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. Alas, the moderates will quash any attempt at reform of the electoral system. |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:13 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. touche', Tierra_y_Libertad |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. dupe |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:30 PM Response to Reply #41 |
59. No, you lost republican-lites to real republicans |
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BzaDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:44 PM Response to Reply #59 |
74. The progressives who won were mostly in districts gerrymandered to prevent any other result. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-11-10 12:27 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. I know of ONE |
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BzaDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-11-10 12:33 PM Response to Reply #77 |
78. Progressives lost in every single competitive open seat House race. Progressive incumbents primarily |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-11-10 12:56 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. Name them... |
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BzaDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:40 PM Response to Reply #37 |
73. Moderates lost because they were in conservative districts. Progressives in conservative districts |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 12:57 PM Response to Original message |
38. What Progressive "Ideology"??? |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:13 PM Response to Reply #38 |
43. so you quoted me out of context and argued with your own premise |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:28 PM Response to Reply #43 |
58. As I indicated |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #58 |
63. I love the sympathy for the folks who voted republican, and the folks who sat by |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 06:38 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. You are completely missing what I mean! |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:17 PM Response to Reply #65 |
70. I think you're missing the point |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-11-10 12:26 PM Response to Reply #70 |
76. If you're right... |
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Catherina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 01:03 PM Response to Original message |
39. Bank on that if you want to lose even more voters n/t |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 01:08 PM Response to Original message |
40. I personally have given up on the Feds. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:31 PM Response to Reply #40 |
60. We've given up on our state (Arizona) and are working in our neighborhood... (n/t) |
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Individualist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:05 PM Response to Original message |
42. DLC talking points. Unrec. |
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Fearless (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:20 PM Response to Original message |
44. Bullshit. Who's going to vote for a fake Rethug when they can vote for the real one. |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:22 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. I never saw Mr. Obama as a progressive. His campaign certainly wasn't a strictly progressive one. |
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Fearless (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 03:26 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. He was considered the outsider, the non-DLCer. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #45 |
61. We can agree on that... |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:00 PM Response to Original message |
54. The middle of what? And no, progressives have been the ONLY ones |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:06 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. I hear you. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:25 PM Response to Reply #55 |
71. Who is in control now? Bipartisanship and centrism always ends |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:33 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. conservatives have had the say so because voters keep electing conservative candidates |
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Ichingcarpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:46 PM Response to Original message |
62. If the Middle is just a little left of Idiocracy then I want no part in it |
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bigtree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 04:50 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. it's where our party wins presidential elections |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 06:40 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. "What I want no part of is a republican victory." |
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Ichingcarpenter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 06:55 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. That's the Point.... I am willing to fight for the end stage |
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AndrewP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 06:41 PM Response to Original message |
67. To quote the very much DU hated Bill Clinton.... |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 07:15 PM Response to Original message |
69. Middle schmiddle |
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Scurrilous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-10-10 08:41 PM Response to Original message |
75. Kick |
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-11-10 05:06 PM Response to Original message |
80. A lot of labels and no program. You don't get to define what the middle is. |
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