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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:58 AM
Original message
Retired and broke: Why retirees are declaring bankruptcy
For more and more seniors, retirement doesn’t mean a debt-free life of leisure. An increasing number of Americans aged 65 and older are declaring bankruptcy, according to a recent study by John Pottow, professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School.

Those aged 65 and older represented seven percent of bankruptcy filers in 2007, a mind-boggling jump from 1991. They are the “fastest-growing age demographic,” according to Pottow’s study.

What’s the culprit for so much debt? Credit cards. Two-thirds of Americans who filed for bankruptcy said credit cards were the key reason for their financial problems, according to Pottow’s research. Besides having more credit card debt compared with younger bankruptcy filers, 44.8 percent of those aged 65 and older also had more plastic in their wallets. “They’re using credit cards as a maladaptive coping mechanism,” Pottow says.

Stephanie Osterland, a supervisor in the bankruptcy department at GreenPath debt solutions, sees an increasing number of seniors living beyond their means. Says Osterland: “They’re just trying to live off of a fixed income, and that’s usually Social Security. Maybe they have a small pension. We find they’ve used credit cards to supplement that income and expenses or they just end up getting into a lot of medical debt.”

http://blogs.reuters.com/deep-pocket/2010/10/22/retired-and-broke-why-retirees-are-declaring-bankruptcy
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R nt
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R !!!
:kick:
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. These are the BOOMERS
I am the tail end born in 1963. This is the ME generation and using credit is the way they did things. For most this won't be the first time they filed for bankruptcy.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Not really. The majority of America used credit cards just
to keep up with the cost of living. Prices sky rocketed but the salaries and wages remained stagnant. It was a catch 22.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Ah but it's more fun to bash the 'self-indulgent' Boomers, don't ya know that?
:puke:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Bullshit. The oldest boomers just turned 64
and this article is talking about people 65 and older.

There is so much hatred for older boomers it blinds people to the fact that Generation Suck, those born during the Depression to the end of WWII, are the ones who are in this article, who make up the majority of the teabaggers, who were Nixon's "silent majority," and who have long been the conservative backbone of the Republican Party.

Most of the men were drafted into a peacetime army and never had a reason to doubt the military propaganda. Most of them married right out of high school or in the first couple of years of college and were tied down with kids, job and mortgage by the time the party started in the 60s.

And they, like the younger boomers who also missed it, have never forgiven us.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. "Generation Suck"
Speaking of blind hatred.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. It did suck
They knew hunger when they were kids, they were deprived of fathers at some point, they came into a segregated, regimented society and had their lives all planned out with no deviation possible, and they got locked into a lifestyle they didn't choose because that's all that was offered to them. Then they had to sit on the sidelines when the mid 60s burst forth in all its color and craziness.

If you'd read the body of my post all the way through, you wouldn't have posted that.
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Looks like I hit a nerve
Let's just say everyone older than 50. ;) Don't trust them.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. only because you are totally ignorant to who are Boomers..and I wouldn't call it a nerve hit..
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 11:58 AM by flyarm
I would say it is adults correcting your ingorance!
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. I'm 50
Does it make you feel good to post random broad-brush generalizations about people you've never met?

:eyes:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
51. +1 . . . .n/t
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
57. +1
One of the few times you and I agree on something.
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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
59. We couldn't have had that much effect
People born in the 1930s (like me) are considered to be born in the "empty years". There just aren't that many of us.

Yes, we did without our fathers (mine was gone from Jan 42 to Nov 45 going from Guadalcanal to Japan the hard way).

We got drafted or volunteered in the 1950s (the question wasn't IF you would serve but WHEN and HOW you would serve). This again was because there were so few of us. I am not sure how much our two to four years service "brainwashed" us. One of the great topics for formal high school and college debate teams at the time was "Universal Military Service (UMS)".

Most of us adopted a "cooperate and graduate" attitude and got through the military and college without a lot of fuss (I think I was allowed one elective in my senior year after I selected my major in my freshman year).

We can't have that much effect politically because there are so few of us. We got skipped over for power jumping directly from the "Greatest Generation" of Reagan and Poppy Bush to the Boomers Clinton and W.

A lot of us had grandparents or parents born overseas. Diversity to us was having a mixture of northern, eastern, and southern Europeans in the neighborhood. There were a lot of different languages, but everyone was trying to assimilate.

I got married fresh out of college and a couple of kids came along real fast. I became a grandpa at 41 and a great grandpa at 62.

On the good side, my house is paid for, the car is paid for, and the only thing on plastic is the current month's charges.

On the bad side, I missed all of the pot and sex parties of the 60s.



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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. But you did
since you were in prime voting years when my bunch, the older Boomers, had plunged into apathy when the war finally ended. I was one of the few people my age I knew who regularly voted. The rest just didn't see the point. They do, now that they're older and coming into their peak voting years.

Your cohort was the bulk of Nixon's silent majority.

As an aside, when I was in primary school and looked at the dramatic dropoff in class size two years ahead of me, I wondered if that many of us were going to die by then and if I was going to, also. It's odd what kids get into their heads when nobody points out the obvious to them.
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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-26-10 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. No
Nixon's Democrats were blue collar guys from the "Greatest Generation".

Lots of union guys switched to Nixon (and later to Reagan) based on social concerns.

There was a large switch of Roman Catholics of European descent from D to R in the 1972, 1980, and 1984 elections. Much of this was a reaction to the 60s. While some were from my cohort, the bulk came from the 40 and over crowd.

In 1972,I saw wholesale switches of life-long Democrats to Nixon and away from the "hippie candidate".

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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Please think about what you just posted.
How many generalizations are in that post? The this generation vs that generation idea is a distraction.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. My mother isn't one of the boomers
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 10:21 AM by Bryn
Don't forget SS didn't go up (COLA) and heading for 2nd year without COLA. Mom reached the donut hole for her meds and now has to pay close to $500 from her pocket per month until she reaches $3,600 before Medicare picks it up again plus she's in the middle of lawsuit by my stepbrother wanting her Life Estate due to her dementia so money went to an attorney to defend her rights (Mom and Stepfather were married for 30 years before he died of cancer, was well loved by him). Now her credit card has maxed out paying for her meds. She've had it for many years, always paid in full each month, 2 years ago bank raised interest rate for no reason (they did to everyone to rake in more money). Economy today is really bad. Plan D for drugs was Bush's gift to the big Pharma.

on edit to add that Mom is 81 and is not a part of the boomers.
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countrydad58 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Exactly!
People on a fixed income like myself cant keep up with the tide in rising prices for the things needed. Energy, utilities,Food, Insurances, medications,property taxes. Then No Cola raises in 2 years. Something has to give!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. I don't care what an Internet definition says; if you can't remember clearly 11/22/63, you are no
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 10:54 AM by WinkyDink
Boomer.

The term refers to those born from the return in 1945 and SHORTLY thereafter of WWII vets, not the off-spring of KOREAN CONFLICT vets.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Well, technically it pertains to the pupulation bulge that swelled up
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 11:28 AM by RaleighNCDUer
between the end of the war and the beginning of the 60s - but I also somewhat agree. A kid born in '63 who is a younger sibling of 3 or 4, who are also solidly in the boomer years, is far more of a boomer than a eldest or only kid born in 63, whose cultural groundings have far less connection with the 50s. There's a big difference between kids born to parents who were themselves infants during WW2 and those whose parents were fully involved and even fought in it.

I notices that with my 2nd wife - though she was actually 6 mos older than me, her parents were a full decade older than my parents, and though she was a boomer like myself much of her cultural reference was years earlier than mine. My dad was in WW2 - her dad was too old to serve. My dad was a depression child - hers blamed the ills of the world on Roosevelt. My folks grew up with getting by, hers were terrified of poverty (as was she) because they were already adults when the depression hit and came to believe that everything bad in the world came from not having enough money.

I think the same sort of divide exists in Boomers - and that explains a lot of the divisions withing the Boomer generation. For most of us, A-bomb drills and Kennedy's assassination, and Davey Crockett hats were the stuff of our childhood; for late boomers, it was Vietnam on the nightly news, civil rights riots, government corrpution and crime, and coming of age with Star Wars. Those with connection to the older boomers through older siblings have boomer references - listing to big sisters/brothers' records, being dragged to movies they would not have otherwise gone to - that their same-age peers without older siblings didn't have. Nobody can really really get the Beatles if they born the year they first came to this country - but they do get grunge and rap that older boomers just don't get (punk kind of straddles for boomers - early punks were boomers themselves).

ON EDIT: And, you can't forget, a great many Korean vets were WW2 vets recycled, and boomers had dads that fought in both.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. No, the Boomers are not "age 65 and over"
The very oldest of the Boomers are just turning 65 right now.

The people described in the article are the ones who grew up in the 1950's, when the economy just kept growing, and thought the good times would go on forever.

The Boomers grew up with the Nixon/Ford economy, and though they haven't always made the wisest decisions, they've got a better sense of reality than the generation before them.

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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Exactly, the ones that voted for Reagan and Bush
sr and Jr.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
56. Maybe they were used to help pay off
health care bills. And please, provide me with the stats to back up your last sentence. Another boomer hater. Quelle surprise.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. And that
Wall Street looted their pension funds and the banks jacked up their interest rates have nothing to do with it.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM
Original message
That's the real reason they're bankrupt, along with the health care
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM by Warpy
expenses cited in the article. The first spouse who gets sick eats up the entirety of the couple's resources in copays, home care, nursing home care, and all the other expenses that come with final illness. Medicare was supposed to eliminate that, but health care expenses have risen so fast and so far that Medicare just didn't keep up.

And don't forget that their health care bennies tied to their pensions were the first things to get cut.

Even without Wall Street looting their income, they'd be in trouble.
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countrydad58 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yes
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 11:10 AM by countrydad58
Medicare is good but not sufficient. First 1-10 th Average SS Check goes to Premiums. Then if you are hit with major illness $100,000 medical bill. Medicare pays $80,000. You are still on the hook for $20,000! How do you pay that on $1,000-$1,500 a month minus the $ 100 Premium! Then hounded by bottom feeder collection agencies for the rest of your life, putting judgements to attach to any property you own or still paying for. Life in 2010 America Sucks!
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
30. It's all the credit cards
which they turned to when their sources of real income dried up - just as it said in the article. People on fixed incomes trying to come up with money to cover necessary expenses.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Not to mention being used to pay for medical bills. nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. Shhh. Don't mention THAT, it might get in the way of blaming potential allies,
other citizens in the same boat who have also been victimized by a deeply corrupted political economic system.
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. preaching, ranting and raving
Sorry but I'm going to preach.

We have a government and a society that doesn't know how to live within their means. People buy stuff they don't need to impress others who don't give a damn. That is the culture that our brain washed consuming society has been afflicted with, thanks to the PR manipulators.

The single best thing you can do for yourself is to get and stay out of debt. If it means sacrificing and not going on vacation or not going out to dinner or not buying new clothes, then that's what must be done. There are always yard sales where wardrobes and furnishings can be renewed on the cheap. Yes it can be difficult with a society that squeezes average people while rewarding the overpaid scoundrels and bankers and entertainers and football players that inordinately line their own pockets at the expense of society. The temptation to buy what you can't afford and try to keep up with others is great but once you learn the discipline you will be rewarded. The other problem is a government that is going into debt and that puts each of us further into debt by default and it occurs by creating wars and corporate welfare that helps those that are political cronies and already have.

Paying interest is a fool's way to waste money.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Didn't you read?
The seniors aren't out paying huge TVs, new cars, going on vacations .... it's all due to medical reasons. Our health care system sucks.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Hell yeah - learn to make do.
A wheelchair is a lot less expensive than a hip replacement. And who says you have to take that Aricept every day - you're not getting out anyway because of the chair, so what's it matter if you're getting a little cloudy and confused.

The causes of MOST bankruptcy is completely out of the hands of the person bankrupted. Having X savings is fine, when you are counting on X + pension for your retirement - but then the pension disappears and suddenly you're look at X=COL-300. There's your bankruptcy. Not the $1800 you spent on that Caribbean cruise on your 60th birthday.

Fuck that "embrace your poverty" crap, and the 'overpaid entertainers' strawman. The primary causes of bankruptcy are divorce, job loss, medical crisis. In retirement, the primary causes are medical crisis and vanished pensions/savings from financial collapse. Overspending has fuck all to do with it.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Exactly!

Thanks for stating the obvious.
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uncommon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Credit card use was called the number one culprit in this piece, not medical debt.
Stop being disingenuous - obviously the poster above was not saying that people should forego medical care.

I work in bk law - the primary cause of bankruptcy for MOST people is irresponsible use of credit. Followed by job loss, divorce, and medical debt. In that order.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. BS: This is what it said about that credit card use:
<Says Osterland: “They’re just trying to live off of a fixed income, and that’s usually Social Security. Maybe they have a small pension. We find they’ve used credit cards to supplement that income and expenses or they just end up getting into a lot of medical debt.”>

I worked as an RN in health care. Doesn't make me heart surgeon.

Americans are just obsessed with creating new classes of welfare queens. Ronnie would be proud.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Credit cards are a MEANS -
when you are buying groceries on credit cards, paying co-pays with credit cards, buying your prescriptions with credit cards because they have no liquid assets - every cent from SS is just covering the rent and utilities - what the fuck else are they to do?

I declared bankruptcy ten years ago because of credit card debt. Never mind that the credit card debt originated with my divorce - leaving me with a lot of debt that had had two incomes paying on it, reduced to one income - a move across country, and an extended period of unemployment/underemployment from which it took me five years to recover. You have any idea how quickly you can max out your cards when you have NO income? Was I irresponsible with my cards? Well, I donated $100 to NPR right after my move, and I spent $80 at blockbuster for 2nd hand movies. $180 out of 26k in debt. That's REAL irresponsible.

Saying that 'credit cards' is the culprit is what is disingenuous. It is job loss, divorce and medical debt that takes what is manageable debt and turns it into a monster, or that causes them to turn to credit cards in the first place, taking what is a financial tool and using it as an alternate source of income.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. +1000 Couching it as 'credit card use' has the intended effect. Kind of like Ron's 'welfare queens.'
The American people are suckers for a good code word.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
55. I get that. I can see that medical expenses can be a
big issue but honestly, that does not account for the majority going into bankruptcy. Go to any casino and their customers are predominately over 65--white and grey heads in front of those one-armed bandits. Florida is full of snowbirds in the winter that must travel to their second home for half the year. Those who are really broke from healthcare bills are also too broke for bankruptcy. My own mother sold her home many years ago as the result of a divorce, owns nothing --and basically says "They can't get blood from a stone." She has the supplemental insurance and lives with my brother. She has never declared bankruptcy. She also has chronic healthcare needs. The only entity that pursued her in her penury was the US government in pursuit of old student loans. They garnished her Social Security for a number of years. You really can't escape them.

People who are on medicare also have the option to purchase the supplemental which covers the 20% that medicare does not. If they don't have that, then yes, there is that expense and many end up taking a mortgage on their home to cover it (which is a travesty). Some hospitals just end up writing it off.

The doughnut hold in medicare D will be due to sunset soon with the new healthcare act but seriously without any cost controls, this is going to be out of control. Many seniors are overmedicated though -- I see it all the time, working as a nurse.
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countrydad58 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. Survival
Impossible if you eat,pay utilities, Mortgage, taxes, healthcare. If that is what you consider living above your means,then I guess we should just die, even that is expensive!
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. 90% of bankruptcies are triggered by four things:
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 12:11 PM by SOS
1. Medical bills (62%: http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf)
2. Job loss
3. Divorce
4. Death of spouse

That's not "buying stuff you don't need"

My wife and I will be filing for Chapter 13 in November.

Reason: job loss

We have not been on a vacation since 1998 and we purchase no consumer goods whatsoever.
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. I know seniors who have put
medical expense (co-pays, prescription medication etc..) on credit cards because they can't afford the private supplemental insurance. It's basically an emergency response.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'd be willing to bet that they're using credit cards because of medical debt
that's what got me close to bankruptcy; medical costs that my insurance refused to pay and huge deductibles and co-pays. Most people over 50 are being hit with the same shit. Once your savings are emptied to cover the costs then it's either "do without" or use a credit card. I did without, but others could not.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. +1 nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. +infinity. nt
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
50. Many of the younger ones here, don't "get it", do they?
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 03:01 PM by SoCalDem
Like the old movie & song say.."Something's Gotta Give".

Many older people have been helping their grown children/grandchildren for a few decades now, as the younger ones' incomes have shrunk..

They have done what financial experts advise against all the time.. Most people who are 45-55 are NOT in a position to loan money to their "kids", but it happens all the time. These kids saw their Daddy & Mom at the height of their careers, and saw them as a resource, without realizing the position they were putting them in, by asking them to co-sign loans or to help them financially.

Saved-money, spent too early can not be easily replaced so close to the end of a career.

What really frightening is how many of the NEXT batch of elders will be declaring bankruptcy because student loaned that dogged them until their golden years have impoverished them to the point that they have no way to live.

Banks know the age & income of people they extend credit to, so why are the banks so eager to loan money to people who have no reasonable expectation of being able to pay it back?

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. "or they just end up getting into a lot of medical debt." OR?
Like that is just an aside, not the primary reason they get into debt.

Let's pretend they're all out buying big HD TVs.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. Seniors are racking up credit card debt to pay for medical care and prescriptions.
This is sad. These seniors aren't trying to buy flashy new teevees or furniture or cars. They are simply trying to survive. If a spouse or partner comes down with an illness like cancer, their entire savings can be wiped out in one fell swoop. Our union is doing a fundraiser for a retiree who has $30,000 in debt owed to a hospital, even after using money obtain from taking out a second mortgage to pay outstanding medical expenses.

It's shameful.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
28. Almost no one has a guaranteed pension or retirement that will pay for retirement
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 11:25 AM by stray cat
and it is not just those who are retired who will never have the money saved to retire
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. curious
weren't the folks (65+) part of the working generation of organized labor and pensions?

what happened?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. Medical Bankruptcy....
..is a term unknown in civilized countries.
Even AFTER all the provisions of the "historic" Health Care Reform kick in,
Medical Bankruptcy will STILL be Big Business in the USA,
perhaps even bigger than before the "historic" reforms.


"A Uniquely American Solution"....Indeed.

"By their works, you will know them."
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Iwillnevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. Pensions
My dad left an editor's job at Conde Nast Publications around 1970 where he had worked for 10 years. His pension? $187 a month since then. It didn't come automatically either. He inquired after a year went by and finally started getting it. No retro. When he later inquired about COLAs, he never got an answer. Still, he feels very lucky to have even that meager amount. No Social Security increase for the second year is an outrage, too.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
45. And for those whose retirement plans hinged on investments
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 01:10 PM by pnwmom
in stock or real estate, many took large hits which they won't live long enough to recover from.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. It's also the economy. Many of them planned on selling their homes
to fund their retirement -- and we all know what happened with that plan. At the same time, the stock market -- where some retirees still had money invested -- took a dive. Retirees suffered along with the rest of the population, except they don't have the prospect of future earnings to make up for their losses.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
47. at christmas our credit union had a giving tree
with senior citizens names on it. What most of those seniors wanted was a gift card to the pharmacy and/or store. Didn't ask for presents, but more for food and medicine. And the town I live in is a small town with mostly middle and upper class.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
48. It's ridiculous that
our "core inflation rate" excludes most of life's necessities, AND it's ridiculous that the ceiling on SS contributions isn't indexed to inflation.

(Where would that ceiling be now, I wonder, if it HAD been indexed to inflation at the same time SS benefits were?)
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. While the elderly have less Wall St gets more
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 02:03 PM by howaboutme
While wages, social security and pensions wane - Goldman Sachs and their staff along with the other Wall St. financiers and CEOs always come out making more in their annual bonuses than 85% of Americans make in their career, even though they have been part and parcel of the economic destruction of America with outsourcing and financial shenanigans. Their disposable income allows them to lobby and buy off and bribe politicians of both Parties to ensure that they gain while the noose is tightened on average Americans as far as opportunity and compensation.

We all need to sacrifice and refuse to give in to the consuming mindset that we've been brainwashed to believe is necessary for our psyche by Madison Avenue. We also need to refuse to give up our independence to any of these usurious bankster bastards with even a dime of our money which is why we need to always live our lives out beneath our means, and stay out of debt to the best of our ability. When we do retire we'll be in better shape. I agree that for many without health care this becomes extremely difficult. Had we not been coerced into a war in Iraq (not for America) by the neocons we could of had health care for all.

I refuse to accept that I have no control over my destiny and my life. The biggest control that you have is to spend and save wisely for a rainy day. My father in law lived on only social security from a factory job at a food processor and he was still able to save in his retirement. I don't buy the claim that we are impotent to help improve our situation. How many still smoke that don't a pot to piss in?

BTW I'm for restoring the marginal tax rates that were in effect back when "as they say America was great and Eisenhower was President" - 90%. Take the money from the overcompensated elite and use it to provide infrastructure, opportunities and education for all, and dignity for retirees. But I'm for means testing too.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
52. K&Rnt
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
53. K&R
:kick:
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
54. We definitely need a "really stupid thread"
forum, where threads like this one could go to die.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
58. Using Warpy's terminology (LOL), I am late-"Generation Suck"
(also referred to as the "Silent Generation"), born in 1943, but with four younger siblings who are all Boomers, so in many ways, I consider myself a "straddler." My theory is that some refer to us as the "Silent Generation" because many of us were traumatized either from Depression years (my husband was born in the 30s) or from not having the so-called "traditional" family - as idealized in 50s-early 60s TV series - because most of us did not even know our fathers until after the war when they returned - or never knew them at all because they didn't return. In my earliest years, I thought that my father was a photograph. When I saw him in person and he didn't look exactly like the photo, I screamed and wouldn't go to him at all - not the best beginning to our relationship. He himself had seen war, both friends and foes wounded and dying, and became fiercely anti-war as did all in my immediate family afterwards, even though we were proud of those family and friends who did serve honorably. Interestingly, even then, it was those who hadn't served or who had received deferments who were the most gung-ho about getting into wars.
Many of us, especially those of us "on the cusp" as I was, were fiercely idealistic. We were among the first Peace Corps and Vista Volunteers, for instance, and were again traumatized by the assassination of the young President who had helped to fire those ideals and as traumatized, if not more so, as any Boomer by the successive assassinations of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy.
We were raised during an era of segregation, yes, but many, if not most of us fought for and welcomed the destruction/falling away of those superficial barriers. Today I am proud that my extended family comprises individuals of all races and religions, and includes lesbians, gays and bis as well. We are indeed a microcosm of the human family.
We have all been betrayed economically by those who have used free-market capitalism as their own pass to the Good Life, without caring at all about those who were being left behind, who parade their "Christianity" loudly as a virtue while not at all leading a "christian" life.
I am one of those who is more fortunate than most. In part, that is due to my Depression-Era-raised husband's nearly fanatical emphasis on saving throughout the years - on foregoing the "latest" expensive fads. In part, that is due to our own hard work, fortunate career and investment choices and sheer good luck. Most of all, it is due to the fact that we have not - yet - experienced the kind of medical, employment or pension savings catastrophe that too many American families have that would require us to use credit cards as a major part of our financial planning just to make ends meet. Still - there but for the grace of God, we could be ... and that is why I am - and will always be - a Democrat.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
60. Nursing Home Costs
My sister is a nurse in one, and she has seen millionaires leaned out in 3-4 years. I am going through this with my dad now. Got a great lawyer, and in Wisconsin, you have a 5 year time period where if you give your money, house, stocks, etc. to your kids/relatives/friends, they can come back and take it. Your will means nothing. You work all your life, just to have the nursing home take it away. It's a mess.

P.S. No, Dad is not a millionaire, but he has lived a simple life, and has accumulated a nice sum.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-25-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
61. Bank CDs pay 1%
10-year treasuries pay 2.5 %.

According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, average retirement savings at age 64 are $69,127.

Splitting this nest egg 50/50 on CDs and 10 year bonds would yield a whopping $100 a month.
A lifetime of work and saving would yield enough to pay your electric bill.

That's one hell of a "retirement".

All to provide welfare to the Wall Street vampire banks and prop up the stock market swindlers.

It is astonishing to watch the financial sector (and their lackeys on Capitol Hill) strangle the economic life out of our nation.
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