Yeah...like Iraq was ever....

[SHRED]

...going to accept Jeffersonian style Democracy, via the point of a gun and dropping of bombs, from an invading country.

:banghead:

[LynnTheDem]

1. We wouldn't.

Why would they?

And Iraq has a history of being invaded for various reasons (OIL) and never have accepted it.

We wouldn't.

[Wetzelbill]

2. it's modern colonialism

Western powers have an ideology in the priveleged classes that makes them believe in their own superiority. This ideology is white supremacy. And as superior beings they have to believe that imposing their own ideas on another group of people is always the right thing. It's always progress. That's why nobody in the media or in public office, let alone Bush and the Neocons, care much about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths. That is irrelevant in the face of a some Iraqis running around with ink on their fingers because the superior ideology was creating progress, death and destruction is just a byproduct of that step toward the future.

The problem with ideologues is they are so smug and dogmatic that they can't believe something as simple as what you said in your OP. As if the whole country was just going to stand by and let someone impose their own ideology on them by force. It's ridiculous.

[madokie]

3. I really don't think a people could be found that would

I know I damn sure wouldn't. its kinda like mixing up a batch of cornstarch and sticking your finger in it you can move the finger around easily as long as you move it slowly but try to move it fast and it is stopped right now, thats the way I see the Iraqi's response to the illegal invasion, destroying and occupation of their country, the indiscrimate killing of their citizens etc. There is no right way for anything American in Iraq, none whatsoever except to leave their country, their citizens and their natural resourses alone. None of it is ours

[SoCalDem]

4. We also have a problem of credibility when you look at who forms our policy

In the middle east perception really does become reality.

Middle easterners have issues with Israel..no matter how much we pretend for it to be not so.

Middle easterners devalue females

We present Jewish policy makers and send Condi as our "face"..

There is NO way on earth that any of our ideas will gain much traction in the middle east until they see us as impartial.. Once our soldiers have died there, we can never be impartial.

we need to admit we screwed up, and get the hell out... asap

[sutz12]

5. While I see some of your point...

Madeline Albright had some successes in the Middle East. I think if we sent the right woman, she could be effective.

Your point has more merit when you consider who they appointed as the point woman for their propaganda effort to 'improve our image' over there. I forget her name, but she was a bright, perky blonde, IIRC. Typical stereotype of the genre, too. OK looks, empty head. Sort of an Elizabeth Hasselbeck clone.

[SoCalDem]

7. Madeline Albright was an "elder" and had some gravitas

and we were not "at war" at the same time. Condi is a lightweight..a clotheshorse.. a zero.

[TwilightGardener]

6. The neocons in this admin never really believed that--it was

their excuse to invade. They couldn't give a shit about democracy, here or anywhere else, and they certainly knew that little brown mooslims wouldn't want our version of it. Look at the peaceable Muslim/Arab countries--are they overflowing with Western-style democracy? Uh, no. They just wanted to overthrow a weak regime to get their hands on oil and then guard it--that's it.