Here we go again.....Park51 Design Released. Outrage Follows.

[woo me with science]

1. The design:





General (non-political) thread on the architecture at a forum about skyscrapers: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=184953



2. The outrage:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2599425/posts

http://apollospaeks.blogtownhall.com/2010/10/01/the_hideous_design_of_the_911_mosque_and_its_meaning.thtml

[depakid]

1. Damn, that is one ugly design.

Interestingly enough, the posters on the architecture forum don't seem to think so.

[wtmusic]

2. Cool.

If only it was built on ground zero. :thumbsup:

[valerief]

3. Beeboy likes Honeycomb

http://www.bestads.tv/view/1842/honeycomb-cereal-beeboy/

Jimmie Rodgers does, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anRqh02N8UM

[aquart]

4. A Lattice of Stars of David. Oh. Dear.

[csziggy]

14. I seems as though they are doing a homage to the mosaics so often used in Islamic design

It is definitely a departure from what is there now. If the floors are transparent as they seem in the rendering, I don't think I could deal with it!

[Tesha]

39. Precisely -- Full marks. (NT)

[blogslut]

18. The Star of David is six points

The stars in this design have eight points and are used quite often in Islamic art.

[Buns_of_Fire]

60. I can see some six-pointed stars in there...

...but then, I can also see a cross, a crescent, Beavis and Butthead, Moe of The Three Stooges, and "SEX" spelled out on every fourth floor (thank Wilson Bryan Key for that one!).

It looks like it's going to be a pretty impressive building, though.

[TexasObserver]

5. 1957 - by Jimmy Rodgers - Honeycomb

Get out your old 45s and put it on your little 45 turntable, denizens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZPwBlRH8E&feature=related

[woo me with science]

42. I like it. :) nt

[Poll_Blind]

6. "The thing's hollow—it goes on forever—and—oh my God—it's full of stars!"

PB

[WillowTree]

7. Helen Keller School of Architecture anyone?

It's hideously ugly and entirely incongruous with the surrounding neighborhood. Just ghastly.

[depakid]

9. Reminds me of the famous pictures of webs that spiders on drugs wove

[kentauros]

8. Wow! That's beautiful!

Yes, I mean it, too :D

I love the Sacred Geometry on the face, a common tiling pattern used in Islamic and Arabic geometric art. It combines more than just the "Star of David", with triangles, squares, hexagons and 'dodecagons'.

Here's a cool page on these geometric forms, and you'll see the above pattern showing up again and again: Arabic geometry

[pnorman]

35. Thanks for that "Arabic Geometry" link.

I have a long misplaced book entitled "Sacred Geometry", somewhere in this rat's next. I'll give it anther try, and see if I can find it.

[kentauros]

47. You're welcome :)

I have a big book on it, too, but the book I like the most is a tiny little thing by Miranda Lundy. I think it's maybe fifty pages, but lays out all the different geometries and how the patterns are created. It's published by Wooden Books and they seem to put out some very handy little (readable) reference books on various subjects :)

[pnorman]

52. That book sounds interesting!

Here it is extracted on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=KXlbZuGY2AcC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=%22miranda+lundy%22&source=bl&ots=xzE8VpLqLo&sig=SGyzAmZEhBe-4EMMKOOaMPNkim8&hl=en&ei=TnunTNTDNYaBlAeEi_3yDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwATge#v=onepage&q&f=false

She also wrote another, titled: "Sacred Numbers". Are you also familiar with that one?

[kentauros]

57. I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds interesting :)

The only other Wooden Books title I have is "Platonic & Archimedean Solids" by Daud Sutton. A quick search on that google books link gave quite a few other interesting titles to consider buying, including the first in the list, "Islamic Design: A Genius for Geometry" :)

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=%22daud+sutton%22&btnG=Search+Books

[woo me with science]

43. Thank you for this.

Very interesting, and beautiful.

[kentauros]

49. You're welcome :)

In perusing that site more, I get the feeling that the site-owner lives in that culture. They seem to know everything about it in regards to art, architecture, city and garden design. It's going to take a lot more reading to get through it all ;)

[Warpy]

10. It's very different from its neighbors

and will undoubtedly spark massive emotion on both sides.

I like the outside better than the inside. I've never been fond of glass walkways, too cold.

It should be noted how people are dressed in the architect renderings. If that doesn't allay fears of robed and turbaned fanatics, I don't know what will.

[EC]

11. I really like it from the inside

the play of light and shadows is really nice...I don't know what it'll look like at night though. The outside doesn't really fit in with the surroundings, but maybe will give some inspiration for the future look of the street...


The Creeper Freepers really love to put their meanings into everything...why would they even comment about the pattern looking like the Star of David being torn apart? Wow some of their comments were really stretches and delusional...

[HuckleB]

19. +1 ... Exactly.

I'm not hot on the outside photos, but, from the inside, it appears to be incredible.

[OmahaBlueDog]

12. Reading the Freepers is like listening to talk about backwards masked satanic messages in songs

That said, I think it's ugly

[HuckleB]

20. I'm not fond of the rendering from the outside, but is "ugly" fair?

I mean we live in nation filled with ugly, suburban box architecture. This is definitely better than that.

[depakid]

28. As architecture goes, I'm not sure Portlanders are ones to talk...

-----

:hide:

[blogslut]

31. Some once called a certain structure "folly"

Now it's considered an architectural masterpiece. Same goes for the Guggenheim - it garnered vehement criticism from certain architecture critics.

[depakid]

33. Touche'

Had the building been finished as designed, it would have had a lot better acoustics. As it is, Perth, WA beats it out with this deal:



Not a bad seat in the house.

[blogslut]

37. That Perth WA is okay in that impersonal modern style

You have to admit this proposed Park51 design has personality. Odds are, it probably won't end up as originally envisioned.

We all have the styles we like but even our idols have bad moments. My idol, Gaudi, thought the World Trade Center should look like a giant penis/bomb/rocketship:

[HuckleB]

46. Well, if Portlanders actually liked that dump, you'd have a point.

Then again, we are dumb enough to spend tens of millions to keep a pointless big glass box next to the Rose Garden, for "architectural posterity." Ugh.

[blogslut]

13. I dig it

It's kind of retro-modern with a touch of Buckminster Fuller.

[TlalocW]

15. Damn, that is effin' ugly and headache-inducing

I would not even want to enter that building.

TlalocW

[Posteritatis]

16. I like it. (nt)

[Posteritatis]

17. And dammit, I've now been eaten by skyscraperpage's forums. (nt)

[woo me with science]

41. Isn't that a great forum?

I've been losing a lot of time there, too. :)

[tammywammy]

21. I like it

Looks like a modern honeycomb type of design. I don't see the Star of David that the freepers were commenting on. :shrug:

[blogslut]

22. That's because they don't don't know what they're talking about

:hi:

[kentauros]

24. That's a given!

:P

Look at any Islamic and Arabic art and you'll see this design over and over. It's a fascinating combination of art and mathematics :D

Then again, the Arabs were quite good at math way back when...

[blogslut]

23. I love that crazy Pam misspelled the sub-domain of her nasty blog

That woman needs a Valium prescription.

[blogslut]

38. Oops, my bad

Apollospaeksspeaks isn't crazy Pam. It's some Townhall Pam fan.

[Norrin Radd]

25. Let me guess...

most of the outrage will come from people who don't live in NYC, nor will ever visit there?

[kentauros]

26. No need to guess ;)

I haven't been to NY since I was just a tyke, 44 years ago, but would like to sometime. And I want someone to take me to this center so I can see it, inside and out :D

[depakid]

27. You'd have more fun at the Guggenheim

----

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qTLQ--o52rA/TB49MLwuZkI/AAAAAAAACcQ/ZqxLC5DdCbY/s1600/frank+lloyd+wright+-+guggenheim+museum.jpg

Now there's a design that works.

[kentauros]

29. Eh, I guess.

I've seen the pictures of it, and it does nothing for me as a "unique" design. It's really kind of boring, making me think of "The Drum" in Austin Texas. It also has elements of The Alley Theater here in Houston, something that was unique back in the 70s and not so much now.

I really like Islamic and Arabic art and design, so I think I'd rather see this community center. I do think it's a beautiful design and will do well in its surroundings. There is that white and seemingly newer building just one more building to the left in that shot, so I don't see it as being all that out of place design-wise. If that was a prerequisite in designing buildings, most modern designs wouldn't ever get built ;)

[depakid]

30. Form with function is what makes the Guggenheim work

btw: I agree with you about aspects of Islamic design- I just don't see much appeal in the sketchy, out of sync postmodern version of it here.

My preference would have been for simpler, long archy deals on the edifice with cool water trim and motifs gracing the interior.

The design principle being elegance over ostentation.

Or cacophony.

[kentauros]

32. Yes it is form with function

but it's almost formless in design. There's nothing to it to keep me looking. A glance is all I need and I'm on to something else.

The community center keeps me looking into the patterns. I appreciate that and I think that works better than arches and trim. That just starts to look like everything else, making it "fit in" to its surroundings better. I still like the look of traditional Islamic buildings (palaces, mosques) but they are often covered with that intricate tiling, letting me get lost in the patterns. My eyes remain fixated on them, instead of looking for something more interesting :)

[RandomThoughts]

34. They are probably going for the honey comb look.

[Violet_Crumble]

36. There's some real freeper ignorance about what a Star of David is...

There's a few ignorant twits in that freeper thread insisting that the stars are the Star of David. They're so desperate to try to ignite outrage out of nothing they make complete and utter fools of themselves....

[kentauros]

55. They are, indeed desperate!

Notice, too, how they are really into the mindset of "what does that cloud look like?", of seeing things in the design that strictly are not there. I would bet that if any one of them posted that it's a standard pattern used in Islamic and Arabic art for thousands of years, they'd be shouted down.

I don't normally look at freeperville, but I'm guessing that thread is typical for them in a total lack of real knowledge of the world around them. In other words, willful ignorance ;)

[madrchsod]

40. it would look grand if it stood alone but

in that setting it looks totally out of place.

[woo me with science]

44. Another architect's image:

[Posteritatis]

45. That's for a different building

It's from a design concept for another skyscraper in New York which, as far as I can tell, was designed mainly for the braincandy of designing it rather than out of any intention of building it. (Sad, IMO, because the thing looks spectacular.)

[JCMach1]

48. Traditional Arabic style only a modern take... I like it

[Skidmore]

56. Me too.

It is a modern representation of the mosaic work done on all the traditional mosques. It is very nicely moving this concept into a modern setting.

[fishwax]

50. wow, I like it

It certainly doesn't blend with the neighborhood, but I think it looks great.

[Odin2005]

51. I am not impressed with he exterior design.

[leeroysphitz]

53. It's a little "busy" n/t

[treestar]

54. Freepers

So typical. There is no design they would approve for that, so why do they bother?

[name not needed]

58. If it's not a smoldering hole in the ground, they're not happy.

[kentauros]

59. Ah, but if it's smoldering,

then they would find some offensive design in the natural tendrils of smoke, and be upset with that :P

My guess is that they would only ever be happy if they could go back in time and make sure Islam and the Middle East never came about. Then when they got back to the future and found literally nothing in the way of civilization, only then would they be happy and content }(