Yahoo article on surprising rise in Baby Boomer Suicides-----

[BlancheSplanchnik]

I just could not STAND the ignorance in the comment section. I didn't much like the hypothesized cause in the article either; suddenly confronting illness in middle age. No mention of the realities of survival.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/surprisinghikeinsuicideratesfoundamongbabyboomers#mwpphu-container

so I had to write this:

Reagan era began the hemorrhaging of worker dollars into CEO pockets. Bush further enabled corporate outsourcing, layoffs and Supreme Court decisions in favor of Corporate profit over worker rights and safety.

In 1980, just before Reagan's presidency and the establishment of pro-corporate Reaganomics, CEO to worker pay ratio was 40 to 1. Reagan's regime moved profit to the top, where the theory was, rich executives would take good care of their workers. Now CEO to worker pay ratio is 500 to one.

2006 approximately began the pattern of corporate outsourcing and massive layoffs, mostly of senior workers, just before they hit retirement. This abandonment of the American worker put a real wad in the billionaires' pockets, while Republican sponsored spin, propagated by Corporate funded media shifted blame onto easy-to-hate-stereotypes such as "Welfare Queens", "Dirty Hippies", "Godless liberals" and "Black Thugs".

Adults who had been self-sufficient and supported their families experienced progressively shrinking wages over the last 25 years (with a boost during the economically favorable Clinton years) until this trend of abandonment.

Beginning around 2005/6, good people near retirement began getting laid off, their pensions stolen and stripped of health insurance, just when age related illnesses are beginning. The American tradition of a Good retirement in exchange for a lifetime of loyal work is being ripped from ordinary citizens.

Set adrift, no one is hiring the middle aged. You're on your own, and if one is lucky, he or she may find part-time work, no benefits at Walmart or delivering pizza.

Obama was saddled with this legacy, and is fighting to put money back into the economy where it can reach ordinary people, but he is being obstructed and demonized by Corporate owned Republican power mongers. The information the public gets is tainted by corporate sponsored media which has turned News into Infotainement. (Remember, the Tea-Party was conceived and funded by Dick Armey, the billionaire conservative. FOX "News" is owned and funded by Australian media tycoon Rupert Murdoch and Saudi Prince Alwaleed. Google on these names for as much info as you could possibly want.)

The question of why Baby Boomer suicides are rising is no surprise at all.

[Recursion]

1. Vague generational definitions

They talk about the baby boomers "entering" middle age, but they're "leaving" middle age for the most part. The oldest members of Gen X as it's normally defined are in their mid-40s already -- it's my generation that's "entering middle age".

[mike_c]

2. I think all such speculation leaves out an essential truth....

We are also one of the first American generations to be defined largely by our rejection of earlier generations' values. Especially important in this context is our rejection of the notion that outside forces should determine the length and quality of our lives, and particularly the primacy of religious prohibitions against suicide.

My partner and I have talked about suicide. We both understand that we each have quality of life thresholds that we will not cross willingly-- mainly health related thresholds. We want to have control over the time and manner of our dying. That is not sad or depressing at all-- quite the opposite. It gives me hope to KNOW, with certainty, that I can prevent my own prolonged suffering ANY TIME I WANT TO. What a joy to know that I have that choice.

[bobbolink]

104. I deeply envy you having that choice.

Those of us who have to die alone, without any concern for the pain we are suffering, are ...

Well, there just aren't any words for that, is there?

[Better Today]

3. I know it's awful hard not to think about that as a "solution" to the problems I am facing.

After two years plus of unemployment, no savings left, just received the notice of intent to foreclose on my home, and ultimately at the age of 50 no real hope of recovery in any meaningful way.... Add to those personal issues, the knowledge that I don't count as far as our party is concerned, being on of the druggy leftists, the knowledge that unless I'm a Bechtel style small biz I can't get any biz loans nor will anyone else who might hire me, the country generally heading into a facist police state.......

What can I say, ... A nice bottle of wine, a small closet or perhaps in the car, and the glowing warmth of charcoal to stay warm, a painless drift into endless sleep... well it seems all to inviting compared to the hardship, the despair, the fear, and the apparent fruitlessness of any future being realistically offered....

Yeah, anyone who can't figure out why us babyboomers are deciding on suicide is just daft.

[whathehell]

4. ..If it's getting hard

not to think about that as a solution, please go to a doctor, private or community mental heatlh (even emergency room or "urgent care center" and get some help. You sound very depressed. I've been there, and even if your present situation in life is not great...You can be helped to not feel like that. Please get that help.

[Better Today]

5. Interesting concept. Unfortunately I'm not in favor of chemically induced happiness.

Pills are for clinical depression. Clinical depression is a biological problem, as opposed to reality based depression wherein the depression is in direct relationship to circumstances.

I understand your intent to be caring, but to really care about me or the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, in similar situations, is to change our reality, not to medicate us into acceptance of that which is unacceptable.

[hlthe2b]

9. +1

that very point is what I was trying to convey--possibly far less effectively.

[Hannah Bell]

14. +100. "to change our reality, not to medicate us into acceptance of that which is unacceptable."

stay strong & don't let the psychopathic fuckers win. you're not alone.

[whathehell]

18. I hope you're not calling me "psycopathic"

Medication is NOT a "happy pill" making "everything allright"...Having been both "on" and "off" of them, I can speak from experience.

[Hannah Bell]

30. no, i meant the psychopathic fuckers impoverishing the people & telling them it's their own fault.

[whathehell]

37. Okay, I get you.

My point was never to say that the world doesn't suck sometimes.

[Better Today]

32. Okay, then, a serious question. If the pill isn't going to solve anything, then what's

the point to taking them. So I feel less discomfort in my uncomfortable and potentially endless fall into the abyss? So others' aren't burdened by my despair? What?

[whathehell]

36. Yes and Yes.

and if that's not good enough for you I'm sorry. There is no pill to rid the world of it's faults and miseries.

[Better Today]

38. Exactly my point. It doesn't change a thing except my willingness to accept

the unacceptable. I personally don't want to be medicated into that level of zombiehood.

[whathehell]

40. Honey....You've got it wrong.

I don't "accept" what is going on. I fight it.

Being DEAD keeps one from DOING that.

[Hannah Bell]

43. you might not be aware of it, but calling someone you don't know "honey" is condescending.

[whathehell]

45. Actually,

I am aware of it, but having been inundated with bitchy, critical responses to what was an attempt to help, I no longer care.

[Hannah Bell]

47. perhaps because you keep trying to force your remedy on someone who's indicated he doesn't want it.

that tends to make people testy.

[whathehell]

57. Re-read the post..

My first response to his pissy little answer was "Do what you want".

That being said, I'm not going to deny MY reality for someone who doesn't know WHAT the hell they are talking about when it comes to anti-depressants.

[Better Today]

48. Attempt to help? BS on that too. If that was your intent, you'd have conversed

on the numerous points brought up by myself and others, instead of simply repeating ad nauseum your patronizing opinions.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Better Today]

44. Fight it ?!?! It isn't an "it," that's the problem. It's that the problems facing

many baby boomers are too numerous to be fought against, particularly in light of the failings of the Obama administration regarding jobs, the middle class, real small businesses (reference to Keith Olbermann's great report about the fake small businesses), healthcare (not health insurance), and so on, with no hope in sight of any party, person, or group that is likely going to cause any improvement any time soon.

Baby boomers particularly may find themselves at a time of their lives where they simply realize that if it hasn't changed for the better yet, it isn't likely going to in our lifetimes, so why bother living our lives out in desperation and poverty.

[Le Taz Hot]

86. OK, I've got to step in here.

I'm a boomer and I SOOOO understand what you're saying and can both sympathize and empathize (55 year-old female, 2 college degrees in a 15.9% unemployment area. Chances of employment? Zip). And I hate to be the Little Miss Mary Sunshine here 'cause that would be COMPLETELY out of character (ask anyone at DU) but here goes . . . We're the generation that said the status quo was unacceptable. We set out to change it and we did. I think that belief system still exists. Can I offer a little of what I've been observing, especially in my beloved-but-broke California? I'm seeing more personal as well as community gardens -- bypassing the grocery chains. I'm seeing plant and/or veggie swaps (can you tell I garden?). I'm seeing more and more of my very-broke Boomers pooling their resources to buy or rent nicer living quarters than they can achieve on their own. Because we're virtually unemployable I see more and more Boomers starting micro businesses. Granted, not all will succeed but some will and those will, hopefully, create jobs.

It's easy to get mired down in all the disappointments we've had to face, especially with this administration when there was so much promise at the beginning. We cannot look to the system for our salvation as the system is completely broken. They succeeded in murdering each and every one of our leaders and none stepped in to fill their shoes. It's up to We The People and I believe Boomers will be and should be a big part of that. Anyway, maybe some things to think about.

LTH

[Better Today]

95. Thanks, I have thought about all of that and so much more.

I'm discussing the legitimate option of suicide, I'm not in the throes of it at this time.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

97. +1000

I can see the logic of suicide, and I see the light in what you're saying too.

I'm trying to reconcile the two and I think the only answer is, no one way is always and universally right.

[whathehell]

49. Umm...I think that's "thing" you want...

..and if anti-depressants put you into "zombiehood"...You're taking the wrong meds and or the wrong dosage..duh....What you do NOT know about anti-depressants is amazing.

Like I said...Enjoy your misery..and your ignorance.

[prolesunited]

73. So, everyone who is on antidepressants

have simply been tricked into zombiehood?

[Better Today]

76. Of course not, some people have clinical depression. I don't have clinical depression.

[prolesunited]

91. I hope you have read post #74

Situational depression can cause clinical depression. Please read the most recent research that shows this in brain scans. You sound seriously depressed. My brother committed suicide. It may solve your immediate difficulties, but it also leaves a lasting legacy of pain for your relatives.

[Better Today]

92. Well, I won't know if it's turned clinical until the situational depression

no longer has stimulus from reality. So more research won't help at this time. Until and unless I find that the situation changes in positive ways and I remain depressed, I will not be considering it clinical.

Secondly, I've had a really really unpleasant life as a whole. I disowned my birth family 25 years ago. I haven't been married or attached in almost two decades. My kids are grown and have been raised to accept the idea that perhaps I'd commit suicide some day. So, my relatives will be in no harm whatsoever, legacy or otherwise. Oh, and since the kids know about my life situations, they also recognize that they are not me, they were not abused as I was, they were not hated and harmed like I was, therefore they cannot use my choice as any justification for any decisions they might consider into the future. IE In my case, mental illness and probably suicide are NOT hereditary, but situational. And yes for anyone reading, I do now and have often on here admitted to knowing that I have mental illness, just not clinical depression. And no I do not take meds for my mental illness, the only ones ever offered me made me feel like I was living in a thick mud haze, so everyone else thought the meds were great because I was too thick and slow to bother them, but was also too thick to accomplish much more that vegging on the couch, and ultimately I decided I wasn't ever again going to medicate to please others... only if I was displeased with myself. I am not displeased with myself, I think I ROCK! So meds from that stand point don't seem required.

[Lost4words]

89. agreed!

[whathehell]

15. You're quite free to do what you want, Bro....but the "chemically induced happiness"

bit regarding medication is very dodgy.

If you want to be "chemically free" you'd better re-design the human brain. We are MADE of "chemicals", inluding the serotonin which makes us feel good. People who lack certain chemicals in their brain or the mechanism to use them adequately feel "depressed"...and no, few of us lack a "reason" to be depressed or a "reality" to justify it, but some of us have the brain chemistry (I know, it's SO unromatic, isn't it?) to cope....Other's do not.

[Better Today]

17. What a load of crap. You know what I meant, but since you're being obtuse, I'll be more clear.

I do not have a clinical depression and refuse to take prescription chemicals or medications to give me a false sense of happiness or a false sense of contendedness.

[whathehell]

23. What a load of Ignorance..

If you didn't have clinical depression you wouldn't be talking suicide.

Educate yourself.

[Better Today]

25. Bullshit. All manner of non-clinically depressed people consider and even

execute suicides. You are misinformed by big pharma. You are more than welcome to get sucked into that spin if you desire, but I will not go there with you.

[whathehell]

39. Fine.....Enjoy your misery.

[Better Today]

41. Contrary to your spin, pills would actually be the solution if I wanted to "enjoy my misery".

[whathehell]

46. Sure.

Except that you don't know a thing about the "pills" you speak of.

Again, pills are not "enjoyable"..duh.

[Better Today]

52. Well now you've wrapped your BS in a circle jerk to be sure.

So we've determined that taking pills won't solve any real issues, since none of the real issues are being caused by depression. Now you also admit that taking pill isn't enjoyable, which is to say it won't make a desperate life more enjoyable. So once again, I wonder exactly what is the point to your advice except to prove you are a worshipper of the big pharma propaganda cult.

[whathehell]

55. Uh..no.

"We" haven't determined a thing...And no, anti-depressants aren't a "high", genius, they DO however, make you realize your life isn't "desperate".

But I'm done with this...If you need educating on the subject, go to a doctor..I'm tired of doing it for free.

[Better Today]

56. It can't make me "realize ...life isn't desperate" unless it is capable of

changing reality. That's my point. My life as well as many other babyboomer's lives are now in desperate territory with no hope of resolution; a pill won't change that. What you're suggesting is that I medicate myself into a false reality, I'm not okay with that, but feel free to do it to yourself.

[Lilith Velkor]

82. Thank you!

[old mark]

27. Bullshit....nt

[whathehell]

34. Bullshit yourself. n/t

[old mark]

65. Oh yeah?

:rofl:


mark

[whathehell]

69. ..Yeah!

:rofl:

[old mark]

80. Well, I guess that told ME...

:argh: :eyes:


Have a great day.


mark

[whathehell]

85. I guess SO....

..Back at ya!

[inna]

77. pure projection on your part.

[whathehell]

107. Pure B.S. on yours..

[elehhhhna]

67. Better,

Zoloft for example does not give one a false sense of hope or contentedness. That sounds more like Opiates. Anyway, what if you have trouble interviewing for a job? What if it's hard to look people in the eye? What if you can't sleep? What if you had a situation cause an imbalance? What if it could be easier to cope -- i.e., think, plan, scheme, etc?

What if you didn't feel so angry? Could you then perhaps improve your situation? Just saying.

Been there.

[Better Today]

93. Hey El, y'know

The thing is, I'm not angry, I'm not having any problems interviewing on the very rare occasions that I get one (around here for every accounting job there are 120-150 resumes if the HR folks are telling the truth), I have no problem looking people in the eye, I've always been an insomniac so I can only say there is no difference in my sleep. Honestly, I'm not even sad or blue. I'm desperate, I'm frustrated, and I feel cornered, but that's for real, not imagined.

I totally appreciate your concerns, but you're missing my point as it seems many on here are.

Being of clear and sound thought processes, I have evaluated that suicide is a viable option at this time of my life, right now it's just an option, I'm not doing anything about it today, or even tomorrow. I have done extensive searching as to a comfortable and non-gruesome way to end my life that could be accomplished either while still housed or even if I'm living in my car. So I'm ready, which I have to tell you, once I had a plan in place, a lot of my anxiety about the future evaporated. Probably because, as a control freak, it returned control of my future to me, even if I don't act on it this minute, I regained control by giving myself a way to say to big every/anything (gov't, top 2%, and so on), "you cannot make me live in psuedo-slavery, in extreme homeless poverty, or in financial shame of any sort."

Anyway, thank you for caring, it's just that the reasons I have for considering suicide have nothing to do with me, they have everything to do with the world at large, actually I guess it could be better said politics at large since none of this had to happen to hardly any of us if it hadn't been for the decisions of pols over the past 2-3 decades. I'm fine.

[elehhhhna]

98. Okay, that makes sense. Just be better, today.

;-)

[hlthe2b]

19. I think you missed the point...

I don't think the poster to whom you reply was suggesting chemical treatment is not appropriate for those with clinical (neurotransmitter responsive) depression that is not transient nor directly associated with immediate events. As I read it, he/she is suggesting that there are very real and timely reasons for millions of persons to feel depression right now, that may need addressing at the route source and by doing so, drug therapy may not be necessary.

[whathehell]

26. Guess what, Wise Ones?

I've had LOTS of experience with Depression -- NO one comes to a doctor saying "I'm biologically out of whack"..duh.....EVERYONE, including me, has an "external" reason, because that's the way (obviously) we experience life!

I'm not arguing this anymore...Anyone who thinks themselves "above" medication -- "uniquely" sensitive to the Tragedy of Life In Our Time, can do so.

..Knock yourselves out.

[Better Today]

29. Well, I guess we are all just like you then, huh? NOT.

[hlthe2b]

31. I'm glad you got the help you needed.

But, I sense a tremendous amount of resentment and residual anger. I hope you might find a way to move past that. Be well.

[whathehell]

33. Yes, for your sake I hope you do as well.....

That anger you're sensing is likely your own.

[hlthe2b]

59. I realize that you have felt attacked on this thread...

With as much sincerity as I can express, I extend the hope that you will take a break from the thread as I fear you are letting yourself be baited and might end up the loser in the end. Sometimes just taking a step away for a little while helps. :shrug:

Edited for a typo

[whathehell]

61. Yes..

and you were the first to criticize a well-intended response.

In all honesty,hlthe2b, I HAVE "taken a break"....Maybe you might want to do the same?

[hlthe2b]

62. No, I criticized the societal attitude...

that you happened to espouse.

[whathehell]

64. "..that you happened to espouse"

..Yes, just "happened to espouse".:rofl:

I don't think I did "espouse" anything but my own experience, and again, if you find that not to your liking...C'est la vie!

[Better Today]

35. Above medication? Wow, what a BS spin. Unless the meds are going to

substantially improve my future, ie my life, then they are of no use. Is being less desperate going to suddenly put many jobs for people over 50 on the market? Is it going to keep my home from being foreclosed and my being homeless? Is it going to put food in my belly? NO, it won't. If my "depression" was the cause of my near future of homelessness and despair, then I'd agree to consider. But my attitude has nothing to do with whether I get a job tomorrow or whether the bank follows through with foreclosure, or any of the other hardships I am near to facing.

[Lilith Velkor]

83. Victim-blaming horseshit.

:thumbsdown:

[whathehell]

100. Of course..

I'm no doubt "blaming" myself too:eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

105. Really?

Did you sneeringly call yourself "uniquely sensitive to the Tragedy of our Time" because you are unemployed and broke and sad about it? Did you berate yourself for not being willing to take on the additional expense of psychiatrists and medications when you can barely afford food and shelter?

I'd like to see a link to that.

[whathehell]

106. Really?

First of all, I didn't "sneer" about anything and what I DID say came only after SEVERAL posts trying to "explain" my position in a rational manner. The "sneering" I'm afraid, came IMMEDIATELY from the person I only wanted to help...Silly of me, I know.:eyes:

Beyond that, maybe YOU could provide a link that reveals the poster in question as "not being willing to take on the additional expense of psychiatrists and medications" because that would differ greatly from what he actually said, which had nothing to do with money and everything to do with "attitude".

If that won't work, remember that "ignore" is your friend...I have no time for the free-floating antagonists here who are always looking for a fight.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Well said.

[Le Taz Hot]

81. Excelently stated! n/t

[BlancheSplanchnik]

96. well said. n/t

[hlthe2b]

8. Of course that is the (standard) "right" thing to recommend..

But, unfortunately, a lot of people who are only allowing themselves to contemplate as in a "what if" and have no intent to act, feel patronized when we say that--feel cut off and ostracized. And that is a hell of a lot of people in this society right now. By cutting off discussion, with the usual quick interjection to "get help" I think we are actually preventing a release valve for a lot of people right now. Having worked suicide hotlines on many occasions over my adult life, I have gradually evolved in my thinking on this. Those who have intent are in a very different place from those who merely need a chance to air their difficulties and be heard. Just my thoughts. I know the very subject makes so many uncomfortable that my admonition is not likely to go very far. Nonetheless, I think it important that we let people discuss their difficulties and to have that "release valve." :shrug:

[whathehell]

11. Well, I'm sorry if my response didn't

meet with your approval.:shrug:

I was certainly not trying to be "patronizing" and I don't think I was...Likewise, I wasn't trying to stop him from speaking. If you read the entire post you would see that I mentioned having "been there" myself. I was acting out of my OWN experience and a desire to help.

[hlthe2b]

13. I didn't mean for you to take my words personally...

I wasn't meaning to be addressing the issue specific to your response, but rather the practice in our society to respond just the way that you did. I'm sorry to have come across as faulting you as I certainly detected your empathy and compassion. What I meant is to have us all rethink our response in these circumstances and perhaps to move a bit from our own comfort level to one that might be more helpful in the long term.

[whathehell]

16. Please don't assume that I was "coming from my "comfort level".

Having said that I'd "been there" should tell you something about that.

As to what might be "more helpful"..Well, we all have different ideas about that, don't we?

[hlthe2b]

22. I said that...

it is our collective (societal) "comfort level". You seem to be wanting to take offense, no matter what, with me and other posters, so I will leave it there and wish you well.

[galileoreloaded]

12. Good Post. People think that suicide isn't a viable option.....but it is, and people do it every day

As a survivor, I took a while to realize that people do what they want to do, you can't stop them with platitudes or even force (for very long), and in my case, the impulsive act of one desperate man ended up being the bravest thing he had ever done.

Watching his depression and pain for 4 years was infinitely more painful (for him and us, I fear) than dealing with his final act and it's effects.

He was laid off from a huge tech firm in 2001 (i wont say who, but everyone knows who they are), 3 months before retirement, after 24 years, and was just of that "boomer" age where 99% of his identity was wrapped up in what he did. He could have easily retired on the buyout, but instead wasted it impulsively, trying to make himself feel better by accumulating "things". The money ran out, and what was left of his identity was shattered. To scared to work anywhere else, and well, he made a very real and cogent decision.

I miss him, but don't blame him one bit, and frankly applaud his courage.

[old mark]

24. What do you have against people deciding to end their own misery?

Let people take as much control of their own lives as is left to us.


mark

[Better Today]

28. That sums it up in a nut shell. I'm not there yet, but I'll be damned if I'll be

letting anyone talk me out of my right to end the misery if it gets to the point that no reasonable solution in the long term is viable. I can deal with short term set backs, but if this is going to be a "remainder of my life" issue, being unemployed/unemployable, homeless, burden on my children, and so on, well then I reserve the right to call it quits as I see fit.

[prolesunited]

74. Maybe you should inform your children or other living relatives of your plans

before you carry them out. It is certainly your right, but don't pretend it doesn't have any ramifications for those who are left in your wake. My brother was in similar circumstances and exercised his right to call it quits. Our family will never fully recover from this. Even if your children are older, it will still be devastating for them. I'm not sure if your parents or living or you have any siblings, but please share your plans with them as well so they can say goodbye.

And, I will agree that circumstances are dire for many right now, but it is your perception of the conditions that are creating your emotional state. You keep insisting that your depression is not chemical, but the constant strain and pressure you are under definitely can cause changes in your brain chemistry. Please do some research on this.

Although I think antidepressants are definitely overprescribed, sometimes they are needed short term to short circuit the negative thought patterns. You do sound very depressed and people who are coping well with their circumstances aren't contemplating suicide. Think of Nelson Mandela. How bleak was his life and what were his prospects? But, he was able to free his mind from his circumstance to find the will to survive and in time, his circumstances changed -- as can yours. And seeking help doesn't necessarily mean popping a pill. Perhaps you could get counseling through a county agency or some other program. No, it won't immediately change your circumstances, but life is still worth living. You have lost sight of that.

And before you tear into me, my circumstances aren't very different from yours. Although I have difficult days, I still enjoy working in my garden, feeling the sun on my face, playing with my dog, visiting with my dad, etc. You appear engulfed in your pain. There is nothing noble or courageous about committing suicide.

Please read this with an open mind and heart.

[Better Today]

94. The children have been informed since they were knee high. As I said

my early life was quite horrendous, so I've always known I might commit suicide if I experienced anything even remotely resembling my upbringing. Their dad got a bit abusive near the end of our marriage, so they got the knowledge back then. As for now, my daughter lives nearby, we discuss it regularly.

As for the Mandela idea, well, what can I say, I'm not Mandela and no one is under the impression that I am, or anything even close. However, I will say that the idea that things might be better at some future point, was very strong in me when Obama got elected. Unfortunately he turns out to be going down the exact same path that put many of us in this situation in the first place, so yeah, no.

I am not engulfed in pain, though I do have a sore shoulder. I'm frustrated, I'm cornered (financially), and I simply feel I have a right to refuse to play the game of life if I don't find the rules suitable for possible success. But you misunderstand the ability to discuss logical reasons for suicide as sadness or anger or pain. I actually would never commit suicide based on emotions, I gave up that idea when I was about 11. The way I've survived my mental illness so long with meds is that I taught myself to be extremely logical, and very little emotion, when issues arise. And logically, suicide is a completely reasonable option given the current and likely future situation that myself and 100s of 1000s of baby boomers are facing.

Lastly, your experience with your brother's suicide is not what all experience. As one poster above mentioned, sometimes it's a huge release for families.

[whathehell]

58. I'm not "preventing" anyone from doing anything

but I feel that there may be better options.:eyes:

[True_Blue]

78. I'm unemployed too

I'm 53, and can't find a job either. I've started going back to school. Hopefully it will help.

I was also facing foreclosure, but I was able to get a modified loan because I'm unemployed. I can't tell you what a huge relief that is. Have you tried to contact HUD?

[Better Today]

87. Not all states have the option for delayed loan payments due to unemployment

Only about 14 states got that option. As far as the other options for modified loan, I don't qualify because you have to be employed, even if it's underemployed, but some employment is required. So HUD cannot help me in this state with things the way they are just now.

[True_Blue]

101. Most of the long term unemployed are over 50

I have more skills and knowledge than I ever did, but it seems like people start looking at you like a dumb ass when you get older.

I was called in for an interview for a manufacturing position by a temp agency after sending them my resume. When the guy that was doing the interview saw me he immediately said,'this is hard work. It's not just pushing buttons.' I explained to him that I was absolutely qualified, my resume showed that I was, but he just didn't seem to take me serious the rest of the interview. I'm a small older woman, but have most of my experience in manufacturing, and people don't see me as being able to operate equipment, so I've just given up in that area.

I'm also a computer geek, but again, people don't tend to look at older women as geeks either.

There seems to be more jobs here in AZ if you're bilingual, so I decided to start taking Spanish. Hopefully, I'll have more luck finding a job being bilingual.

[hlthe2b]

6. What is wrong with people that they would think it surprising...

Good God, we have a lot of clueless assholes in this country.

[laughingliberal]

7. We can add a Cat Food Commission looking to gut the last hope many of us had for avoiding starvation

...to the list of contributing factors. Most of us realize that before SS starvation and hypothermia were leading causes of death among the elderly. The country seems poised to take us back to those days and cheer while they're doing it.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. the replies in this thread are a lesson in themselves.

It might even be a snapshot of American Lives worth sending somewhere where it would get noticed.


I'm not sure what would be the place... my first thought was whitehouse.gov, but I'm not sure it would get seen in the avalanches of emails.

[old mark]

21. Their emails seem to vanish into nothing. I doubt anyone reads any of them...

It's just a feel good device.


mark

[BlancheSplanchnik]

42. that's my concern

I'm just wondering where to send this, because I think all these comments, and the Yahoo article/comments contain a very strong message that needs to get seen.

[raccoon]

20. Great post! Yeah, the hypothesized cause in the article was ridiculous. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

51. thank you!

I do appreciate appreciation. :)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

50. how bizarre...looks like my comment didn't get posted at Yahoo

I tried a second time, even.

Weird....looks like it didn't make it through the Yahoo review board.... would the moderators stoop so low?

[Better Today]

54. That sucks entirely. Just out of curiosity, are you using Firefox with NoScript?

I ask because I've found that when I don't authorize certain scripts on certain pages, my postings don't go through even though it seems as though they did.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

60. well, I happen to be on Safari at the moment

I did get the Yahoo window come up that says, "here's a preview, your post is under review".... so I guess they got it!

It does suck! I put a lot of time into that...then something screwed up and it disappeared, so I did it all OVER again. Not as extensive as the first one, but still..... and to not get posted after all that. Just WEIRD, especially in light of the CRAP that DOES get posted there.



Firefox NoScript? I wouldn't know whether I have that or not!!!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

63. People are living longer, but society has decided you should disappear by forty

[avaistheone1]

79. True. I live in Silicon Valley and most of these companies toss you out by the time you are 40 or

45.

You are useless to them by that point.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

90. I'm 48, and like Better Today, continue to contemplate an end to the acute sorrow.

I have been prescribed anti-depressants. Tried 3 different courses over 2 1/2 years. Came out from those tests ("well, let's try this drug for a while") feeling like someone stole my ability to feel things properly and that all my thoughts were a conjuring of the drugs. Can't really tell tell you how much that sucks... not knowing if you or the drugs cause your state of being.

I no longer am on medication. I feel that over the last 4 years that I have regained my sense of self.

However, the social injustices, the horrible long-term financial picture and living situation, faltering health, and feeling like society needs to dispose of me, gives rise to the concept that stepping out of this world may be a very legitimate course of action. That sucks too. But, maybe not as much as enduring the pain and sorrow of daily life.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

68. just a word about anti-depressants

They do help Clinical Depression, and can even help one think more clearly in the face of Situational Depression.

They don't turn you into a happy zombie, not in my experience. They do help you think more clearly--they help you make efforts to change unproductive negative thinking, racing thoughts, dark ruminations.

That said, they also don't remove the sufferings of a life derailed by heartless profiteers.

I disagree with any automatic judgement of those who commit suicide. As with terminally ill and suffering persons, no one should be forced to remain in suffering that has no solution.

In my opinion.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

71. I have long meant to ask...

Does anyone ever comment on your "flea?" One of the benefits of leaving the south was largely leaving fleas as a nuisance. And, they are a tremendous nuisance if you have pets. Just wondering...;)

[L0oniX]

72. My flea has caused a great amount of anger. It's been blamed for much damage to montors...

all over the world.

[prolesunited]

75. Wow, advocating murder suicide

Maybe he should think bigger. Bomb a bank or something.

What the hell are you thinking by posting that? This person is serious and you're egging him on.

[Lilith Velkor]

84. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't happened yet.

And by "it," I mean suicide bombing a bank or insurance company.

[Vinca]

88. I've noticed an uptick in death reports in the local paper that sound

as if they're suicides. All things considered, it could be more than financial. It could well be a person who can't afford medical care and wants to opt out of pain and suffering.

[marions ghost]

99. The finding DOES NOT apply to all Baby Boomer groups...

From the article:

"Men and women with a high school degree or less also became more likely to commit suicide. Rates in men with a high school diploma went up 11.7 percent in the 40 to 49 age group and 27 percent in the 50 to 59 age group. Women in those groups saw their suicide rates increase by 15 and 17 percent, respectively. Middle-age participants with a college degree appeared largely protected from the trend."

-------------------------
So why is it that those with a HS degree or only some college (no degree) are much more at risk than those with a college degree?

And don't tell me it's because the grad can more easily find work these days, or could even back in the Reagan years. That's only part of the story. Many college grads I know are out of work. Are they more likely to have a working spouse, or what?

Does anything else give college graduates an extra dose of "will to live" in this time of extreme adversity?

I am seriously interested in what readers have to say.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

102. I don't know the answer to that, mg

but I can speculate a little.

Just guessing around, but I'd think one quality college grads as a group, might have is better skills at abstract thinking.....

So, that might mean better skills at thinking of and finding other possibilities....

Also, higher self-esteem comes to mind, that might account for the lower rate too...

:shrug:

[marions ghost]

103. yes

abstract thinking, and also more imagination --in seeing oneself functioning in a different role--leading to the ability to set an alternate course that might have some chance of success.

So what can be done to help this group of non-college grads, to prevent suicide in the face of personal disaster? One obvious fact is that they must feel they have nowhere to turn, no options.

I suggest support groups, but don't know how that would be carried out, who would sponsor them. it would need to be very practical and goal-oriented. It is sad how we isolate people in this society.

[treestar]

108. Suicide is caused by depression not by a situation

People have lived with far worse and not killed themselves, because they were not depressed.

People who have it good from the outside sometimes kill themselves, because they are depressed.