shooting spree that left three people wounded including 2 police officers

[MichaelHarris]

"White's 3- to 4-acre property was littered with trash and included a trailer, abandoned vehicles and a dirt mound, which Barton described as fortress-like and equipped with trenches and "fighting positions. He pretty much lived off the grid," Barton said....White "has a history of not liking law enforcement. doesn't like what it stands for in general and sees it as a threat to his rights."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/18/texas.standoff/?hpt=T2

Barton said White has connections to white supremacist organizations and longtime links to the Republic of Texas, which asserts Texas is an independent nation whose government was reactivated in 2005 after 163 years of dormancy.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gLwr13g_777Izjya18b8XPGcxROwD9IAMULG3

We are seeing more and more of these guys, just as we did during the Clinton admin. The difference today is, they have much easier access to weaponry.

[RandomThoughts]

1. I remember posting.

If this thing slides into the abyss we are going to need the police with us, glad they are.

However within authoritative structures in world systems, those riot police seem to have different motives.


oh, one more thing.

I am still due beer and travel money and many good times from a smear done on me years ago. And they will pay.

[MichaelHarris]

2. it's never good to shoot at them

though when they knock at the door. Didn't work in Waco either. If you feel you're right just answer the door. Shooting never helps.

[RandomThoughts]

8. I have answered every door.

And why would you associate my comment with Waco?

Unless you mean Gene Wilder's character Waco, I thought that was a pretty good movie, and it worked out well there.


As far as being correct, enough people know that I am due, for that situation to be corrected.


As far as shooting, do you mean with a camera or a gun?

[seabeyond]

3. i am glad all are doing well, but shit, for a macho supremacist he is a lousy shot....

but to reiterate, .... thrilled he is a piss poor shot.

[MichaelHarris]

4. the "brave"

ones always seem to surrender while surrounded by their "collection" of firearms.

[seabeyond]

5. ya know.... nt

[proteus_lives]

6. Hey MH. Any luck convincing people safety is more important then freedom yet?

[sharesunited]

13. Freedom to act out with guns and ammo? That's what the 2A has been bastardized into.

[proteus_lives]

15. Standard issue SU.

Control, control, control.

Sorry about using the word "freedom" I know that makes your stomach upset.

[Pavulon]

7. Isn't this a dupe of a Texas thread...

seems like it should be moved or locked.

[merqz]

9. Are we?

Are we seeing "more and more" of these types. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. I personally have no idea. Do you have any data to support that we are 'seeing more and more'? Merely posting articles when one of them rears up doesn't prove that we are seeing more and more.

Recall that it was conventional wisdom here that we'd see a massive spike in crime when the recession started. At least last year, according to the DOJ stats, crime yet again went down... and significantly so.

Iow, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the above contention. I am saying you need to show me data for me to believe it's true.

[X_Digger]

10. He's a photojournalist.. if it ain't in the papers, it doesn't exist..

Nevermind this link..

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/index.html

or this one..

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/index.html

or this one..

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/index.html

[merqz]

11. Good one

Like I said, I KNOW crime is down. It is possible I guess that this sort of anti-govt. wacko shooting at govt agents (be they local or federal cops)is becoming more common, but sayin' it's so don't make it so. At least that's not true in the real world. I'm not sure what world the OP inhabits.

[MichaelHarris]

16. you mean

like the Justice Department report that said Anti-Government militia groups on the rise after Obama was elected? You do watch the news right?

[merqz]

17. That is not the same thing as saying

that anti-govt. people are increasingly getting involved in this kind of shooting incident. Read your OP again.

You said "we are seeing more and more of these guys". I will clarify. Are we seeing more and more of these guys "iow guys who commit these kinds of heinous crimes" or merely guys who are anti-govt but not violent.

It MAY be true. I need evidence. You have provided none.

It should be relatively simple to find evidence of increased # of these types of shooting incidents IF they are occurring

Fwiw, I'll give you a headstart. Line of Duty officer deaths are up about 25-30% last I checked this year vs. last.

[MichaelHarris]

18. excuse me

while I laugh........

[X_Digger]

12. Do tell..

We are seeing more and more of these guys, just as we did during the Clinton admin. The difference today is, they have much easier access to weaponry.

By what measure are crimes up? Hate to tell you this, but the murder rate hasn't been as low as it is now since 1964 and it's over half what it was in 1993-1994.


http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/hmrttab.cfm

(That graph only goes to 2006, but you can see 2009's numbers here http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/index.html)

re 'much easier access'- how so? 1994 saw the brady bill passage, with instant background checks coming online in 1998.

If you're talking about the failed 'assault weapon ban', check out this graph of AR-15 sales..



Notice that the uptick in 1988 corresponds to California's 'ban'.

More AR-15's were sold during the ban than before.

[Vickers]

14. I just can't stand people with a litter-strewn trailer lot. n/t

[defendandprotect]

19. "guns don't kill people" ... "evidently, they don't also kill police officers" ...!!