How would you push democrats to the left?

[austin78704]

So through all of the fighting and bickering, one thing seems to be agreed upon around here: the democrats in DC are somewhere between too moderate and actually rightward. Or something like that.

OK, we have agreement, let's start from agreement and move on from there.

This next part, there seem to be two schools of thought around here. On one hand, you have those who say voting for anyone other than democrats is equivalent to voting for republicans. On the other hand, you have those who say voting for democrats just because they aren't republicans hasn't worked so far, so why do it this time?

Disclosure: I'm in group 2. Further disclosure, I'm a shameless third-partier and have the deleted threads to prove it.

This gets to my question--oh, you know what, let me make a couple of rule suggestions.

1) If you think your position--whatever it is--is absolutely crystal clear and those who disagree are idiots, crazy, paid off by BP or whatever, you should probably skip this thread. That attitude leads to the flame wars in the other threads.

2) Don't refight past battles with piles of hypotheticals. Past events certainly matter, but stick to actual events--not guesses about where we'd all be today. Those fights never go anywhere.

OK, the question. How would you push Democrats to the left. See? It was in the subject!

Anyway, we all got together and got us a bunch of democrats elected last go-round and in the interim we've watched them slide over to the right. Calling, writing letters, lobbying, angsty rants on DU, etc. have not stopped that. Our tools failed to work. Now we're coming up on election time and we have the most powerful tool available to us: our vote. Lots of you are saying we shouldn't use that tool--too much potential for collateral damage. OK, so if our vote is not available as a tool to persuade democrats to the left, what is? What's your plan after election day?

[begin_within]

1. Make it look like an accident.

[Lyric]

2. Put them in a great big room with a sign that says "Corporate money to the left!"

[valerief]

45. Bwahahahaha!!!

:rofl:

[BeFree]

3. After the election?

Begin raising hell again.

But from now til then, snuggle up like a good yella dawg dem.

If I don't like what I see after the election? I'll go back to barking and biting.

Until then... peace and unity is the best way to live.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. So before the election we are told to STFU.

After the election we are told to STFU.

I got the message. It has been loud and clear here since 1-20-09: STFU. In fact pretty much the same people were telling us to STFU when, in opposition from 2000 - 2006, our party demonstrated abject spinelessness and a ready willingness to embrace neocon and neolib bullshit at the drop of a hat. Out of power: STFU. In power: STFU.

Now back to the OP. In terms of when we can have an effect, it seems the answer is: nationally never unless we organize a coordinated multi-state effort to create a functional left wing within the Democratic Party. All we need for that is the equivalent of the Koch brothers funding for the tea party, or one of the existing national organizations like DFA or MoveOn to really get serious about party politics. Or we do it ourselves. Any volunteers?

Locally we can of course support and vote for local left alternatives in primaries and local center-left candidates in the general election. I'll be doing that here in my district in NH. It ain't much, but its something.

If all we ever do is roll over and vote for the center-right mainstream candidates that get stuffed down from the top, that is all we will ever get. The plutocracy is very happy with the status quo.

[BeFree]

14. Well

I guess you hear what you want to hear?

I don't hear STFU, much. I do hear that what I'm barking about can't be done right now, and so I decide to get closer so that the next time it comes up, I can bite.

If I can get inside, I'm closer. Dems have let me in the door, pubbies never.

I like Dems owning the congress. All I can do about that, is help vote more Dems in. So that's what this citizen will do.

You have some opposite advice? Warning, I do bite. <Grin>

[Warren Stupidity]

18. "what I'm barking about can't be done right now"

but I hear that all the time in every situation. Everything we want is always "off the table". Why is that?

[BeFree]

28. I dunno

Because our friends don't have enough power?

Having had some measure of success, and failures, comes the realization that the surest best way to get what's right is thru overwhelming numbers.

300 reps and 61 Senators ought to make my life much better. And now is the first time in two years that can happen. The time is now to snuggle up.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. We just had overwhelming numbers and we got next to nothing.

Now we are about to shed that majority.

[BeFree]

32. Overwhelming? Not quite

Yeah, if we'd a thrown a few grenades (rhetorical)....maybe.

And we'd better f'n not shed that majority. That would be political suicide.

[BeFree]

33. PS

The headlines would read:

"Democrats are committing political suicide by refusing to vote"

[Warren Stupidity]

34. It was the first super-majority in the Senate since 1977.

This was an historic opportunity squandered.

[bobbolink]

37. "Peace" is cutting food stamps, so more people can go hungry?

Telling people you ignored the last two years to go along with you now, because of what YOU want, is very selfish.

Quite honestly, it just isn't flying anymore.

So, blast me for telling you what is happening. I no longer give a damn. I have tried to get all of you to see this for years, and you have chosen to ignore it. Now that it is too late to correct it, don't expect those you have ignored to fall in line because YOU demand it.

[BeFree]

39. Hey

I've been demanding cuts in bombs and increase in health care. And we haven't had enough Dems in the house to get it done. Maybe one day we will?

And please, don't even tell me I'm not pissed off.

[bobbolink]

40. Did you demand an INCREASE in food stamps?

You see, your limited scope of what is important...to YOU, is now coming home to roost.

Don't expect the rest of us who are being cut to care about YOUR priorities, when ours (which are basic SURVIVAL, for shits sake) are CUT.

It has come down to that.

LOOK AT US... recognize that we are ONE OF YOU, and you have discarded us.

[BeFree]

43. Wrong

It is true that I am lucky enough to not need assistance at this time.

Your casting aspersions at me is ridiculous. I am not holding you back or denying you anything. Republicans are. Attack them, not me.

I simply see it as having more Dems in office as the starting point. We get this chance once every two years. I plan on making the most from this infrequent chance to get started making progress again. Meanwhile attacking the enemy; not my friends.

[bobbolink]

44. Its not all about YOU.

If you really, honestly, cannot see that DEMS are doing the cuts now, then you have more problems than I have.

At least I still have clarity of vision.

But, whether I do or not is no longer the issue.. the issue is that many, many others see what the Dems have done, and castigating them for seeing it, and demanding they vote as you wish just won't fly.

Your chickens have come home to roost.

So, flail at me for delivering the news. I really don't care.

[kenny blankenship]

4. I don't think you can.

After all, what have you seen from them that would indicate a willingness or ability to learn?
I am not that interested in the impossible. America has some hard lessons to learn, and apparently 8 years of Bushler and 30+ years of Reaganism HAVE NOT BEEN ENOUGH. Whether "the Democrats" start learning from their experiences now is completely beyond my power. They will or they won't, and I can't afford to care anymore. Americans, like George Amberson Minafer, are going to get their comeuppance, three times filled and running over.

[EFerrari]

25. Who has that kind of money? Maybe in small local races

but not in the national ones.

[Orsino]

48. It's the nature of the beast.

Not the Democratic party--I mean that this is the political system that we have allowed to be built. When money was equated to speech, that was the last straw.

I'm not sure that we can come back from that.

[hedgehog]

5. Re-define the center + educate people. Fro example, people will not object to outlandish

CEO salaries and benefits until they understand that the money is coming out of their pockets!

Another example of the connections we need to make for people: It took four days of being house bound due to high ozone levels for me to realize that my electrical power was being generated in coal fired plants in the Midwest. (I'm a slow learner sometimes) It makes sense for me to pay a little bit more for green power if it means I can breather easier.

[Heidi]

6. You're mistaken on the "OK, we have agreement" part.

Bluedog Dems helped elect this president and Congress and, while they're way the hell to the right of me, they're voting Dems and we still need their votes. How we are going to BRING (not PUSH) them more left is the more salient question.

We're not gonna get far pushing people. Welcoming, embracing, and bringing constitute a far different strategy than pushing.

[NYC_SKP]

8. +1

"BRING (not PUSH".

This is a universally successful strategy across any number of human interaction scenarios.

:hi:

[austin78704]

12. I can agree with that

So, how would we go about Bringing democrats to the left?

[Chan790]

21. Candidly.

My answer is exactly what it's always been. Shed 'em. Tell them this is our agenda and if you're not supportive of it, there's a party over there more in line with your beliefs. Replace them by reaching out and bringing in the apathetic-disenfranchised further to the left that have never been involved because they think nobody speaks for them. We speak for them and it starts with organizing them. It starts with reaching out to them...that's why Acorn was attacked. It was finally getting good at activating the people who should be the core constituencies of the left.

Democrats that are really Republicans and don't know it are a big problem for us.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. +1

[Nay]

7. I also don't think you can. The pain to the dummy American public has

to be greater than it is now, obviously. I believed that before Obama was elected, and half-wished even then that he had not won because I was sure he would get the shitstorm and be blamed for the last 10 years of Bush's crap. And so it has been proven. That's exactly what happened. It hasn't helped that Obama has turned out to be such a wishy-washy dem and has packed his administration with Republicans who hate him.

Nothing will help until:

Dem politicians get a spine/stop being lap dogs of the rich/act as if they give a shit about the other 99%
and
The American people wise up


I'm not holding my ass waiting for anything like this to happen.

[xchrom]

10. You have to create a voting block among your peers - try to

Expand it.

Make sure there is agreement within the block
About who or who not to vote for.

Get that block known to your reps.

Continue to revitalize and expand said block.

[dkf]

11. What if being more left is not what the American public wants?

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Well then we should of course join in the move to the right.

:wtf:

[Edweird]

30. They do, even if they don't realize it.

I just ended it Saturday with a woman that was a teacher. She was also very RW. She was more than willing to discuss the sacrifices teachers make and how the compensation is insufficient for the commitment required. In other words, despite her love for Hannity, she realized that teachers aren't overpaid - because she was a teacher. Many of the RW'ers are just like that. They feel everybody else is getting something for nothing, but THEIR benefits are earned and just. Basically, they are liberal on an individual level, but conservative on the bigger scale.

[RC]

42. It is what the American public wants, but...

Our candidates are chosen for us. We have no real choice. Look at the system of how both the Dems and Repugs choose the "Winners".
If the people that have the real vote want to continue to have any power, they will confine their votes to the predetermined field or else.

The Republicans have done a fantastic job of demonizing "Liberal" and "Socialism". Until we can counter that, we can't effectively deal with the status quo.

But the average, center-of-the-road American feels frustrated that who ever we elect immediately goes to the right when they get in office. Look at our congress critters. Look at Obama. Look at bu$h, even though he was appointed.

Ya betcha, most Americans want this country to be center or center left, but they keep getting snookered and we end up going further right.

[Umbral]

13. As long as the Democrats aren't afraid of the Left, it will never happen. nt

[gulliver]

16. Whichever direction you want to go, the easiest thing to change...

...is the people. The Dems will go with their constituency, so your best bet is to make that constituency see things your way and then make it as large as possible.

[piratefish08]

17. push them left!? i'd be happy if they would just stop volunteering to go right.

[eShirl]

19. You do it in the primaries. n/t

[Fumesucker]

20. The Democrats don't need to move to the left, they need to move to the right..

This country suffers from a severe lack of right wing politicians, it would behoove the Democrats to fill this gaping void in our national discourse.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. That will be the post election strategy.

As we slide from two center-right parties toward a far-right and not-so-far-right set of political organizations.

[Fumesucker]

38. Ding, ding, ding.. We have a winner..

[Edweird]

22. Refuse to support DLC'ers. Support Liberal/Progressive Dems ONLY.

It may mean an uncomfortable transition period where r's benefit from the shake-up but it will be worth it in the long run.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Make them earn our votes instead of falling for the "not as bad" fearmongering.

[LWolf]

27. I have no idea, but I'll read through this thread to see

if any good input from others appears. One such post appeared upthread, with the "bring them to the left" rather than "push" them to the left.

I suspect this one has enough weight to merit serious discussion.

To be honest, though, I'm so angry, so disenfranchised, that, at this point, I'd rather kick their ass than "bring" them anywhere.

Which points to the possible need for an attitude adjustment. On my part, and on the part of many.

While I am typing the above, it occurs to me that I actually do a damned good job of meeting people on common ground and working to move them my way in real life. When I know the people. When they are real to me, and I see them as whole, and worthy.

It's here on DU, where people are faceless and nameless propaganda pieces spouting bullshit talking points, that there is really no meeting ground.

Oh, I do meet some on common ground, sometimes. It's happened. It only happens, though, when the other anonymous avatar makes their points in reasonable, respectful conversation, and listens in return. Perhaps that's too much to expect on anonymous internet boards.

In the real world, though, I can do it.

I see that I'm thinking through the question, and modifying my response, as I type. That's annoying, since most won't read through my thought process to get to any sort of conclusion, but it's a better response than hammering off a line or two in comeback.

I know that I should be writing more letters and making more phone calls, and, if not that, at least emailing. I do some, at least writing and emailing. I rarely even call my friends, strongly disliking the telephone. I just get so frustrated, angry, and then jaded. You see, when I want to communicate my thoughts on an issue to my elected representatives, they send me a form letter in return that basically tells me, with great compassion, that they hear my pain, and that I'm wrong, and they're right, and that they are just going to keep going the direction I don't want to go.

I should be getting involved in electing people further to the left at the local level, and moving up the ranks. The problem with that? I live in a hardcore red area. People actually on the left are not going to win. We did have ONE state Senator, Ben Westlund, who actually went independent, and then became a Democrat. He moved on; he wouldn't be elected here as a Democrat, and too many locals were already pissed at him for his support of civil unions and same-sex marriage. He went on to become State Treasurer in '08 but died last spring. :(

Meanwhile, it's hard to find a challenger for local republicans, let alone a truly "left" challenger. I vote for and support whoever will challenge them, even if they are not my political cup of tea; I figure that at least on the local level, they're easier to influence than a Republican.

I no longer have the budget to donate to political campaigns as I did in past years; I've never donated to the party as a whole. Only to very progressive candidates. If I had the funds to do so, I'd be donating to every Democrat running for national office that would take a public stand against, not just republicans, but neoliberal democrats, as well. The last candidate I donated to was Dennis Kucinich.

I will be working for the Democrat running against my rep in Congress. He MIGHT be vulnerable this year. It all comes down, believe it or not, to the tea partiers. We have a strong tea party contingent locally. We also have a lot of more moderate republicans who are not happy with the tea party. As one of them told Greg Walden recently, "Do you WANT us to run to the arms of the Democrats?" The tea partiers are happier with him than the rest.

I can't donate. I can't put in a lot of time. The school year has started. I'll be putting in 10-12 hours a day at work, and I have horses, sheep, chickens, and weeds to manage at home. What I've got, though, I'll give.

"Joining" PDA or DFA? For those who have the time, yes.

What else? What else can be done to influence voters, and to push elected reps to represent voters instead of their big money donors?

[Starry Messenger]

31. Scare them by threatening with a real left.

It's the only thing that has worked historically.

[Chan790]

35. OMG, could you imagine the hysteria if someone like Bernie Sanders ran in 2012?

The slogan could be "I'm the only Socialist in this race!" and when he got 12% of the vote nationally, the media would be all over themselves to discuss whether this was the direction of the future of American politics.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Take primaries seriously. They exist for a reason.

They're as critical, if not more, than the GE.

Your district is stuck with two assholes and you have to vote for the Democratic asshole because the Republican asshole is a 5% bigger asshole? Think of the non-asshole who could have beaten the asshole in the Democratic primary, and promise to work harder (or at all) next time around. Don't be an asshole.

[paulk]

41. I don't know any more

I would say that working toward the establishment of a 3rd party that can actually win elections is a step in the right direction, but with the the USSC recent decision on corporate contributions, I don't see how a 3rd party is going to compete financially.

Maybe if those shut out by the corporatocracy start burning our cities down a la the sixties, that might affect the bottom line and make the moneychangers in DC take notice. But I'm not a fan of that idea, either.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

46. My idea

It's probably nothing special or intricate but it basically boils down to this:

1. Organize around progressive policies and agitate for them 24-7-365 and put the people in office on notice that you're watching their votes and hold them accountable when they seem to be going too far in the wrong direction. Help educate and inform voters on the issues and how progressive policies are better for them than what the Republicans are pushing.

2. Find and support progressive (or more progressive) candidates during primary elections. Primary Dems whom don't consistently vote/stand up for Democratic ideals (whatever you believe those to be, anyway)

3. If the progressive (or more progressive) candidates win, continue to campaign and support them in the general election and hope they are successful. If they lose in the primary to the "Blue Dog" or not-as-good Dem, vote for the Democratic winner whether or not you like them or not but continue to repeat step #1. Redouble your activism if the Repuke wins in the general election so as to help build the foundation of an eventual electoral win.

The one thing that I've observed that the Republicans/conservatives do that keeps them competitive (no matter how crazy they are) is that they and their "base" are CONSTANTLY busy organizing against their opponents and preparing for the next election, which helps keep their Representatives/Senators voting THEIR way (or afraid NOT to vote their way). We need to do the same. It's simply not enough IMHO to organize and campaign to win elections every 2-4-6 years and then go back to doing nothing in the meantime.

[guardian]

47. Give them a backbone...

might be a place to start