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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 09:58 AM
Original message
Tony Blair offers Obama political advice on how to deal with 'professional left.'
Tony Blair Takes On Professional Left (VIDEO)
Evan McMorris-Santoro | September 6, 2010, 9:57AM

Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says that the toughest part of being a progressive-leaning politician these days is dealing with progressives themselves. Ironically, Blair says, activists on the left often assist their right-wing opponents by piling on the pols who lean their way rather than defending them against a conservative onslaught that he says is "vicious" and begins from "the word 'go.'" Blair says the politics of the day can leave ostensibly left-leaning leaders like President Obama "in an isolated position," with right-wing opponents eager to destroy them and the activist left (more often than not) happy to help.

~snip~

Blair said that the tendency of the left to pile on rather than defend its own leaders can leave their politicians alone to face the right wing attack machine, which Blair says is merciless. "It doesn't matter how well intentioned you think you are," Blair said of the right. "They're going to go for you completely."

"And then the interesting thing is, the progressives say, 'Hey you're not being progressive enough! Why don't you do more for us?'" Blair added. "And so you can end up in quite an isolated position if you're not careful."

Through a reflection on his own political life as the longest-running Labour PM in British history, Blair's suggested President Obama is currently in the same kind of rock-and-a-hard-place position he said he was in during his more than a decade in Britain's top job...

~snip~
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/tony-blair-takes-on-professional-left-offers-obama-advice-on-how-to-deal.php?ref=fpblg
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, bLiar: this progressive's lifetime dream is to defend a war criminal
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 10:03 AM by Amonester
like you.

BTW, FY bLiar. You're no progressive at all. Not one iota.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Blair Thinks He's a Progressive?
no Tony, not since you sided with the most recent ex-POTUS
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. That is the problem with the political designation "progressive". It has no
meaning anymore.
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OZark Dem Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. We should get talking points from a Poodle ?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hey Tony:
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. There is no comparison between the cases. Blair supported the Iraq War.
Obama has done nothing comparable.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes he has. Blair bought into Bush's war crime and Obama has covered Bush's ass for it.
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 10:45 AM by katandmoon
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. What does 'professional left' mean?
x
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. To these PINOs (Progressives In Name Only), it must have as much
meaning as 'winning wars of aggression'.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Anyone who is less right-wing than Blair!
Which means a lot of people!
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Tony bLiar,
a friggin' Yankee Poodle Dandy.


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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe they should start with progressive policies and see how that goes
???
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh, GACK, who does Blair think he is, telling Obama what to do?
As if Blair was any sort of role model. 'Just listen to me, and you too can spend your life up Bush's rear end!'

I used to describe Blair as 'the British Benedict Arnold to the American Mad King George'.

And to think that in the past, British Labourites were firmly to the LEFT of American Democrats!
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. are you fucking kidding me?
he's the poster child for right wing enabling and he wants to give advice...
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cowcommander Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. "...and the activist left (more often than not) happy to help."
Sorry guys, but he's right. All the negativity and endless Obama bashing here doesn't help us at all.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's not complimentary
Suggesting that there is any symbiosis between left based criticism and right based attacks is ridiculous. One side is pushing you to succeed, one side is working to make you fail. When you have one group of people asking for white, and the other asking for black, giving them gray doesn't make either happy, and if white was the right answer, all you did was undermine your own success.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. You say the Right pushes on you and the Left pulls on you, and you don't know what to do?

:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:

Dance with them what brung you, Einstein.


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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Birds of a feather n/t
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. What an asshole... so he wouldn't have invaded Iraq if the left was more supportive?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. I agree with Tony.
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 01:47 PM by bvar22
The Left, Progressives, Liberals, FDR Democrats, Greens, Democratic Socialists, and ANYONE who is Anti-WAR/Pro-Working Class should be 100% supportive of an administration that bends over backwards to appease Republicans, but lets a few crumbs fall off the table for The Working Class.
There wouldn't be ANY crumbs if the Republicans were in power.
WE should be groveling in gratitude for the crumbs.
INGRATES!!!

All HAIL the Invisible Hand!!!
The Giant Invisible Hand will save us ALL!
Must NOT make the Giant Invisible Hand Angry!
MUST sacrifice the Working Class.
The Invisible Hand DEMANDS it!
All Hail the Giant Invisible Hand!!!
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think we have much to learn from Blair and New Labour
Though the lessons and conclusions are pretty much the opposite of what Blair promotes.

A decade of Blair has left the Labour party on its knees
Servility to the market has alienated voters and eroded the traditional base. The last thing we need is more of the same
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/apr/19/comment.politics

So Blairism adopted a strategy of hyper-realism. If this was indeed a conservative country, led by the Mail and the Sun, then they would define the terms of debate. Labour would accommodate itself to the forces of modernisation. New Labour was born, and the nation would be forced to accept the hegemony of the market, individualism and the US. Arch-Blairite Alan Milburn said we cannot allow the Tories to own the Me Generation. New Labour's strategy would be to do it first. This would mean continually defining itself against Labour's own ranks. One progressive step forward would be followed by two steps back. A combination of winning, spinning and the third way would paper over the cracks.

A decade on, all are left frustrated. Blair was trapped governing from within Labour and would always be constrained by it. On every issue he wished he could have gone further. The party welcomed the winning cuckoo into its nest and traded principle for power. But members have grown bitter at a relationship at best defined by being ignored, at worse by being abused.

Blair described his politics as "compassion and aspiration reconciled", as if inequalities of power and class interest could just be triangulated away. He really meant middle-class aspiration and charity for the deserving poor. All he has modernised is the biblical tale of the Good Samaritan. Tax cuts, tuition fees and trust schools put aspiration first and have led to the social recession of growing inequality that the nation now buckles under. The Blairites started off thinking progressive politics weren't feasible and have ended up believing they are undesirable.
~~~
If we go back to where it started, on that May morning when strangers smiled at each other and the possibilities of political change animated a nation, we can see a different future was possible. People voted in a landslide that encouraged the kind of political and economic change Blair had already ruled out. So the scale of the majority had to be downplayed. The party governed as if it was still on an electoral knife-edge. Places, people and principles that should never have been Labour were now in the tent.



Little wonder that Blair faced criticism from the "left" of his party. That was Labour's traditional base which New Labour abandoned. Do consider reading the full editorial. It was challenging to only quote four paragraphs since so much there resonated strongly.



Dead end for New Labour

Leo Panitch: Labour Party will have to split before it can be renewed

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5083


JAY: Well, let's talk about New Labour, because Tony Blair ushered in the third way and a new vision for the left, supposedly, in UK. It's sort of ended ingloriously now with Mr. Brown. What do you make of what's happening? First at the political level, then let's talk about this whole ideology.

PANITCH: Well, it's significant. You know, Labour had a big, long run of 13 years, which is a very long run in British politics. It's equivalent to what the Tories had, Conservatives had, from 1951-64. It's close to what the Conservatives had from '79 through '97—not quite as long, but it was—you know, three successive elections is a big thing. So that's come to an end. They presented themselves as finding the answer to the problems of free-market Thatcherite capitalism, but essentially what they did was embrace it. They embraced it and said, we will be slightly more socially conscious than Mrs. Thatcher was. But in fact they weren't. They embraced the city of London and the banking system fully, including by taking a lot of money from them. Blair made a deal with Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch, who owns a good part of the press in Britain, especially The Sun, and bought into his law-and-order line.
~~~
PANITCH: Who owns Fox. Exactly. The Australian newspaper magnate who owns large chunks of the Western media and bought himself an American citizenship in the process, 'cause it was difficult to own a major American news network if you couldn't own one unless you were an American citizen. So he bought himself American citizenship. So they had a good, long run. They were very pragmatic. They presented themselves as having this philosophy of kind of an egalitarian market society, but it was one that essentially embraced the Thatcher revolution. It's true that they spent more than Thatcher did, but they were able to show at the same time that Thatcher really didn't reduce the state nearly as much as she claimed. She just shifted the state's priorities around. They marketized the national health service—they didn't privatize it, but they introduced the kinds of competition, demands for efficiency that you would get in a privatized health service. You know, there were some progressive things, like child tax benefit, which Britain didn't used to have, which they borrowed from Canada. They came over here and looked at what the NDP and Liberals were doing with child's tax benefits for families and introduced that. But it has proven it was temporarily successful. But in terms of increasing inequality in Britain, in terms of leaving Britain very vulnerable to the power of financial capital, in terms of vast regional inequalities, it has certainly not been a success in social terms, and they ultimately paid for it.

JAY: And throw in a lying with George Bush on Iraq.

PANITCH: Well, I was just about to say. Of course. And, you know, the thing that may have hurt them most in the end was the Iraq War, their supporters in particular, but not only their supporters. Unlike in Canada, the parents of the people who were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan are very angry with the government. Nobody is buying this patriotic stuff as the Canadian families who suffer from this are buying it. And that has, I think—was also a very major factor in the unpopularity of New Labour. Now, what is so interesting, however, is that there was not this rush to the Tories, especially not in the north, especially not in Scotland, especially not amongst Labour's working-class constituency. There is this abiding fear and suspicion of the Tory party, more than there was, because a lot of working people did vote for Thatcher. But having seen what it represented, they don't want it again.



Hmm, Thatcherism with a smattering of social conscience. The more I read about New Labour, the more that sounds like an astute summation of New Labour's policies to me. The distinction between marketizing and privatizing is particularly interesting, especially when looking at other areas, such as education, where this also occurred.

Blair trumpets his re-election as validating New Labour's policies. Let's take a closer look, shall we?



http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2009/10/labour-party-blair-election

But is it as simple as that? For one thing, those victories are less impressive the closer you look. In 1997, Labour won a landslide - of parliamentary seats, that is, roughly 64 per cent of them, but with only 43 per cent of the vote. In the exultation of that moment, not enough Labour supporters noticed that their party had won fewer popular votes than had the Tories under the much-mocked John Major in 1992. In 2001, Labour won again, and not very surprisingly: the electorate by now had a choice between William Hague, a conservative who couldn't win, and Blair, a conservative who could, and did the logical thing, though millions followed another logic by simply not voting.
The British were once enthusiastic voters, as other nations still are: the 84 per cent turnout at our 1950 election was matched in the latest French presidential election and Dutch general election. In the UK, in 1997, the figure fell to 71 per cent, but then plummeted to 59 per cent in 2001. If fewer people voted Labour in 1997 than Tory in 1992, then fewer voted Labour in 2001 than Labour in 1992; and fewer voted Labour in 2005 than for the Tories at their debacle of 1997.
By that last election, the 35 per cent of the electorate who voted for Labour as the "winning" party was for the first time easily outstripped by those who didn't vote at all. Over the past three elections, the Labour vote has fallen from 13.5 million to 10.7 million to 9.6 million; the last figure is several millions smaller than those who voted Labour when the Tories won in 1959 or 1970 or 1979. Blair gained his victories by default. Should the party really thank him for that?



That looks like many Labour voters stayed at home, perhaps for some of the reasons listed above, perhaps because additional promises weren't delivered.


Unequal Britain: richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/27/unequal-britain-report


The report, An Anatomy of Economic Inequality in the UK, scrutinises the degree to which the country has become more unequal over the past 30 years. Much of it will make uncomfortable reading for the Labour government, although the paper indicates that considerable responsibility lies with the Tories, who presided over the dramatic divisions of the 1980s and early 1990s.

Researchers analyse inequality according to a number of measures; one indicates that by 2007-8 Britain had reached the highest level of income inequality since soon after the second world war.

The new findings show that the household wealth of the top 10% of the population stands at £853,000 and more – over 100 times higher than the wealth of the poorest 10%, which is £8,800 or below (a sum including cars and other possessions).

When the highest-paid workers, such as bankers and chief executives, are put into the equation, the division in wealth is even more stark, with individuals in the top 1% of the population each possessing total household wealth of £2.6m or more.



Clearly Thatcher started this direction, but Blair continued it, leaving a fractured party with many of Labour's traditional voters disenchanted and a vacuum which would end up being filled by the odd couple Tory-Liberal Coalition.

But yeah, Blair just blames the left for that.

Just want to say: "Nice legacy, Blair" and food for thought for us.



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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Gee, an awful lot of that sounds familiar
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I'd love to hear thoughts from UK DU members
about how they felt about their voting options during those times and now.

I think there are many lessons there which we should examine.

And do read the rest of, especially, the 1st article.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Have a read of what he achieved
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 02:42 PM by TheBigotBasher
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5494725

Not the best of records for a so called Labour Party. More Neo Con Labour than New Labour.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Important stuff there
That's a great link on so much that has gone on.


I wonder if you could share from a personal view the impact on Labour supporters in the UK in terms of deciding who to vote for during these years and the shift in the party from Labour to new Labour?

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. In May 1997, I was delighted that Blair won - just because he was Labour and apparently ending 18
years of Tory rule.

Within 6 months, his policies on education had profoundly disillusioned me; soon reinforced by his cuts in benefits to disabled people.

His warmongering became apparent later on.

There are a few good things he's done (notably his contribution to the peace agreement in Northern Ireland), but overall he was awful; just another Tory - though some people in his government were better.

I had expected Brown to be only slightly better than Blair. In fact, he turned out much better, though still not my ideal Prime Minister (even he was too right-wing and too pro-banker). Sadly, Blair had sown the wind and Brown reaped the whirlwind.

As regards my own voting preferences: it's complicated by the fact that I've often voted tactically for whoever was most likely to beat the Tories locally, and also have sometimes actively preferred a local MP or Euro-candidate of a different party than my preferred national party. (This refers to LibDem and Green candidates - I have NEVER voted Tory, and think that my hand would drop off before it would place a cross against a Tory's name!) But if I simply look at my preferences for Prime Minister over the years, regardless of how I actually voted in my constituency:

1983, 1987, 1992, 1997: wanted Labour to win (Foot, Kinnock, Blair).

2001: no strong preference between Labour (Blair) and LibDem (Ashdown) (Would have preferred Ashdown, if I'd known everything about Blair that I know now.)

2005: actively preferred LibDem (Kennedy) to Labour (Blair)

2010: preferred Labour (Brown) to LibDem (Clegg)


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ikri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. We had 3 options at the last election
All 3 major parties are centre-right though the Lib Dems certainly won a load of votes by campaigning on a more centre-left manifesto and they're largely in the coalition government now because of those former Labour voters who abandoned the Labour party after the Labour party abandoned them.

The Lib Dems looked like they were going to offer a genuine centre-left alternative to the Tories & Labour and they did win votes because of that. But a lot of that ended the moment that the Lib Dems got into bed with the Tories to form the current coalition government. There's a good chance that the Lib Dems are going to face annihilation at the next election thanks to their actions after this election, the left wing voters who voted for them won't do so again for years.

There's a leadership election going on within the Labour party right now & I feel that Blair is worried that his New Labour brand is about to be not just dumped by Labour but that Labour might end up apologising for following the New Labour path at the expense of their core voters. The results of that election are going to either push Labour back towards the centre-left or they're going to carry on with Blair's project into oblivion.

The options right now don't look great but there's a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel. We're likely to have a referendum on electoral reform which could lead to some form of proportional representation which would be a major bonus for the Green party (the only real major left wing party) who would likely pull in a lot of votes from the left. There's always the possibility of a split in the Lib Dems (they've done it before) leaving the "Orange Book" Lib Dems in government with the Tories whilst the rest leave to form a new party. Even if neither of those happen, I think that the Labour leadership candidates are now at least aware of how far they've moved from their core voters but it remains to be seen whether they'll actually try to do anything to rectify that.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. This is an excellent post with many lessons to be learned
by the Democratic Party here imo.

You really should think about making it an OP. I haven't read the last article yet, but will do so. I used to think of Blair as the antithesis of Thatcher/Reagan, a brilliant, thinking person who would keep Britain out of Bush's wars/crimes. I remember watching him debate Clinton, they seemed to genuinely like each other, and both were so on fire with ideas at the time.

What happened to him? Or was he just not what people thought he was? And why does he still not seem to get it that what he did was so wrong, that it cost so many lives, needlessly?

Blair fascinates me as much as Obama does in that both had so much promise and the opportunity to be great historical figures, but chose a different path, at least it seems that way so far with Obama.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I can't figure out what happened there either
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 05:11 PM by suffragette
I have many of the same questions as you, far more questions than answers.

I wonder too, was it evident that Blair and New Labour would take the path they did from early on or did it take most in the UK by surprise?


Appreciate the thought of making this an OP. I'll give it a go.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Great, I have responded in your thread.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Thanks Sabrina.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. A war criminal says what? Who would listen to a war criminal?
Edited on Mon Sep-06-10 01:55 PM by Solly Mack
What kind of person would listen to a war criminal's advice?

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Actually, Obama praised Blair just last year
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/feb/05/blair-obama-first-friend

At the annual National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, Obama lavished praise on Blair, who was the principal speaker.

The president said: "I want to thank my good friend Tony Blair for coming today, somebody who did it first and perhaps did it better than I will do. He has been an example for so many people around the world of what dedicated leadership can accomplish. And we are very grateful to him."




Perhaps Obama was just being polite to Blair, since Blair was the keynote speaker at the event, but it does read as though Obama admires him.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Guess I couldn't ever be president then.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yeah, me either
Hope all is well with you.
:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. What more evidence does anyone need that the "professional left" meme
is a right wing talking point? Does Bush need to tattoo it on his forehead?
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Blairs a scumbag
but hes got a point. I think a lot of us who have legitimate problems with Obama tend to pile on hard and not give the guy any credit for the good things he does, and as Blair says the right wing is merciless and Obama really has been out there by himself for a while now. Its his fault in a lot of ways but still.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. What is Blair's DU handle, anyway? n/t
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JoseGaspar Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. Perfect advice for "New Democrats from "New Labor".

Tony Blair moved the Labor Party so far to the right that the LIBERAL PARTY ran to the left of them in the last elections. To fully appreciate what that means, you have to know a little British political history.

The British Liberal Party... damn.


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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. How would Blair know anything about "being a progressive-leaning politician?"
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
37. Tony Blair is a war criminal.
He also was a poor Prime Minister, he took his party too far right, well to the right of John Major.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. In that way he does have some things in common with Obama n/t
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. "how well intentioned you think you are:"..
... that says it all right there. If you thought you were well intentioned when you sent your countrymen to a pointless war, well you should be respected.

No Tony, it's not what you think. It's what your people think.

You can write 500 books in the attempt to exhonerate yourself for your unforgivable decision, it's not going to work. Crawl back into a hole before someone sends you to the Hague.
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ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sorry, Tony... progressives don't do that lock step thing...
that means, you get praise and support when earned, and criticized when deserved.

FYI: this ain't a football game.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. Nobody can doubt Blair's love for his country and its troops. nt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
45. blair, a progressive?....i've never laughed so hard
a progressive war criminal perhaps?
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