Realizing that this opens me up for all sorts of abuse from my friends here, I must, nonetheless,

[Atticus]

say that I cannot begin to understand those who claim to support "the cause" to which so many here dedicate so much and, yet, say that they will not actively support Democratic candidates this November and may even stay home on election day.

Do I agree with everything that has been done by this Administration; this Congress?

Anyone who has read even a few of my posts knows that I do not.

Do I believe that more could have been accomplished?

That is absolutely the case.

But, stay home? Abandon the field to the Limbaughs, Becks, Palins, Gingrichs and Boehners?

No, I will contribute what I can to those who oppose these mean-spirited and arrogant barbarians. I will post their signs. I will do whatever I can to hinder their opponents.

I will keep myself informed so that I can not just counter the wingnut propaganda that is being "catapulted" by the Teapublicans, I will embarrass and humiliate them for their malevolence and their mendacity.

And, when the election is over and we have carried the day, THEN we can argue about tactics and priorities.

But, for now it's "Game On!" It's time to kick ass and take names.

[johnaries]

1. K&R

[anthroguy101]

2. Agreed. I'm voting and NOTHING is going to stop me.

EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD DO THE SAME! I'm not going to just sit here and let the teabaggers ruin everything, it's time we stand up and fight! Let us all do our part and make sure our country keeps moving forward.

[jhrobbins]

95. Hear, Hear!!!!

[bjobotts]

104. We must continue to stand for the best that can be achieved at present vs

the worst that could happen.

[bjobotts]

105. Not voting against these billionaires propaganda party is saying I'm gonna kick my own ass

[bjobotts]

106. We must convince our friends that billions will pour in to the media to demonize dems so

[bjobotts]

107. they must be smart enough to see through the anti-government propaganda

[bjobotts]

108. Republicans got us into this mess and fight against all efforts to get us out just to get power

[bjobotts]

110. 99% of all media ads will be lies and propaganda like dems spending wildly...yes, to get us out of a

depression caused by charging to wars on the credit card, giving trillions to the wealthiest 1/10 of 1% through the Bush tax cuts and deregulating the banking and wall street fiascos. Repubs have already stated that if they got power back they would fill the time with investigations into Obama and shut down the government. They would lead us into a plutocracy, soon telling American workers they should be grateful to work 60 hrs/wk for $.50/hr.

We need better dems but we need more to keep the crazies out...the one who have proven they know nothing about government except how to profitize from it for themselves and their friends.

They must be stopped for one more republican majority will end up destroying our democracy and our economy

[Ramulux]

3. Agreed

I dont think I have been more motivated to do anything in my whole life. I will definitely be volunteering a lot of my time in the next 2 months, doing phone banking and canvassing for Organizing for America and my local congressional candidate.

[OZark Dem]

4. I turned 23 voters against "Blanche of Arkansas" before the primary

That was my biggest haul so far. But I keep plodding along for good guys even if my morning news says I am wasting my time. My thoughts run so far down. How the hell could we have blown this so bad. Blown even worse than Gore in 2000, or Kerry in o4.? It simply won't fathom through yet, that that is possible.

[Capitalocracy]

55. I would argue with having blown it with Gore in 2000

As a matter of fact, I don't think there was anything democratic about that election. It was a judicial coup in the interests of the military industry. I see the U.S. as currently trying (and failing) to recover from a military dictatorship.

[OZark Dem]

62. It was that summer shakeup of campaign staff

Barbara Brazeal ?????? And I can't remember if he used Bob Shrum, the consultant who has one winner in a lifetime.

[Art_from_Ark]

124. Al Gore still got more than a half million popular votes than bu$h

and he had to jump over all sorts of roadblocks in Florida, including arbitrary deadlines set by Florida's secretary of state (who also just happened to be bu$h's campaign co-chair in the state as well), wasting 3 precious days and countless man-hours and money to ship three truckloads of ballots to a judge who couldn't be bothered to look at them after they arrived, to a governor who just happened to be bu$h's brother, and all sorts of other crap as well. And even after all that, when Al Gore finally got the Florida State Supreme Court to rule that the freakin' votes should be counted, Cheney's hunting buddy on the US Supreme Court stepped in and made sure that there would be no fair count of the Florida ballots. And even if the USSC hadn't stepped in, the head of the goddam Florida legislature announced that the legislature would not sanction election results that showed Al Gore to be the winner in Florida.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I totally disagree...

...with nothing you said.

[kentuck]

6. Someday they will understand it is a two-way street....

Our vote is not to be taken for granted. You get it when you represent us.

[blue sky at night]

12. what possible good can come of putting the assholes in charge of the house again.......

or do you forget the Clinton administration. How high and mighty of you as the deck slips beneath the waves....but you have your pride and principles, you get my vote when you represent us...fuck, when has that ever happened?

[kentuck]

13. And you call yourself a Democrat?

So you are saying it doesn't matter if they represent you or not? They can vote just like Republicans so long as they have a "D" by their name. We don't ask for much, do we?

[blue sky at night]

14. I really don't fucking care....

do you understand what will happen if they take the house, and you call yourself a democrat... did you read my post or just climb a little higher on your horsey?

[kentuck]

20. That is obvious.

Some people do care. They will vote but they will still fight to do their damnedest to get their Party to do the right thing. There is nothing wrong with that. Otherwise, you get just what you settle for. Don't worry about the left. They will vote. It's the other jellyfish that we have to worry about.

[blue sky at night]

21. do you want an example of how far we are from doing the right thing...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9077380

[kentuck]

38. I could agree with that.

Too much spent on killing machines and not enough spent on helping humanity.

[tavalon]

66. Thank you for taking my left vote for granted

I'm choosing to be motivated despite your galling assumption.

[JDPriestly]

63. What will happen that isn't already happening?

The economy will worsen, and they will be blamed for it as they should be.

I don't think much will change at all. Let's say Blanche Lincoln wins and we supposedly have a majority of Democrats in the Seante. She votes against the most important of Obama's initiatives -- thwarts him when possible -- and he campaigns for her. That is incomprehensible to me. If the Conservadems lose, then the tallies are clear -- the Republicans oppose progress -- the Democrats favor it.

As it is, with all these Conservadem Blue Dogs in Congress, we Democrats look incredibly stupid and inept. Our philosophy, our policies are not passed.

The Democratic majority is actually a Conservative majority. The only difference between a Democratic led Congress with all those Blue Dogs and a Republican led Congress is that if the Republicans win, they will get blamed for the mess they make because their party's name will be on that mess. Right now, Democrats are being blamed for what is really a conservative mess.

[AllTooEasy]

87. that's ridiculous

Republicans wanted Health Care Reform, the Stimulous, a draw down from Iraq, and Wall Street Reform?!?!?!

How can you say the Dems voted like Repubs, when the Repubs voted against everything the Dems and Obama wanted?

[JDPriestly]

61. Taking away control from the assholes in the Democratic Party.

Obama promised change. Nothing important has changed. Absolutely nothing.

Obama can't even change his economic team although it is obvious that their advice has not worked.

[LibDemAlways]

91. A similar post on another thread caused the professional Obama

apologists here to rake me over the coals. Not because I was wrong, but because I had the audacity to say that the change I voted for is not the change I've experienced, and it's my perception that the Dems will be held accountable in November.

Some people here need to wake the fuck up, face reality, and quit condemning fellow Dems who ask only that Obama start dancing with the ones who brought him to the party.

[Techn0Girl]

125. HA ! I said that maybe I should have voted for Hillary instead....

and the thread got locked down. and SHE'S a Democrat.
The General Presidency "forum" is a wasteland of groupthink IMHO.

[LibDemAlways]

127. I had a post deleted last night for stating that

I'm not voting for any candidate, regardless of party, who votes to extend the Bush tax cuts or messes with Social Security. Apparantly at least one mod is simply removing posts he/she doesn't like. I sent a complaint PM to Skinner and will continue to bitch about it if it happens again. This is Democratic Underground not Obama Cheerleading Central. Dems should not be required to march in lockstep in order to participate.

[bobbolink]

97. What possible good does it do to keep voting for those who literally TAKE THE BREAD OUT OF YOUR

MOUTH?

You people slay me... you mock and laugh at those awful RWers who "vote against their own best interest", yet you can't for the life of you understand that when the Democrats consistently work against poor folk, that we eventually stop being abused wives and say, "Nope, not again."

When YOU start making it an issue to protect the least of these, then get back to us.

Until then, your guilt has been neutralized.

[bjobotts]

111. Hell yes, if can't get what we voted for then vote for the worst that could happen by not voting

[bjobotts]

112. Most of the House bills passed are jammed up in the senate who only want failure to make dems look

bad. We'd be well on the road to recovery were it not for the senate filibuster abuse and the holds on keeping government from operating.

[AngryOldDem]

39. I wish I could rec this response.

If actual Democratic candidates got nominations, then we wouldn't be in this quandary. The party leadership has to begin to understand that, and if it takes a bad Election Day for them, so be it.

I am not planning to vote in my state's U.S. Senate race this year, because there is not a dime's worth of difference between the Republican and the Democrat. Any way you cut it, I lose, so screw it.

[Jade Fox]

42. So, even if your Democratic Senator.....

were to vote for good legislation created by some Democrat more acceptable to you, your Dem Senator would still be worthless in your eyes?

[AngryOldDem]

52. I'm not voting for him.

Period, because the man is a DINO. He is anti-choice, wants to keep DADT, wants to keep the Bush-era tax cuts...so you tell me...what kind of Democratic, progressive legislation would he most likely support?

I'm done with the rationalizations, the lesser-of-two-evils crap. If there's no discernible difference between candidates, screw it.

(EDIT: Wrote he is anti-DADT; edited for clarification. Atill -- tells me how he feels about gay rights.)

[Sheepshank]

67. so what Rep is giving you all you ask for?

Not sure who you are teaching what?

[sabrina 1]

80. 'All you ask for'? Way to denigrate the civil rights of women

and gays. Did you read what his Senate canditate opposes?

Exactly what are YOU teaching when you demand that such people be elected? Not the best way to advocate for Democrats if that's what you think you are doing. We've heard this before. And we did it, and what did we get? Not much in four years. A few crumbs which I can count on one hand. But on the big issues, betrayal is the word that comes to mind.

I agree with the commenter. When the candidate is just a Repub with a D after their name, people prefer the real thing. That way they know what to expect and how to fight it.

Dems are going to have to do better than use that same old 'the lesser of two evils' routine this time. Like coming out strongly to protect Social Security from the Deficit Commission eg. So far as usual on the big issues, they've been remarkably and disturbingly quiet about that issue.

[John Q. Citizen]

90. Some people aren't worth voting for, regardless of their party. That's the issue. Not who

has given you 100% of everything you want.

Some people really are crooks, really are scoundrels, and if you can't see those people in your own party that's a handicap that will hurt you.

Do you see them but just vote for them anyway?

Or do you just not see them?

[Cal33]

64. "Our vote is not to be taken for granted.

You get it when you represent us." Sounds nice, but it doesn't really work that way.
If you abstain or vote for the Reps., you'll only be helping to bring about the demise
of democracy that much sooner.

Even with the present-day spineless Dems. in government, democracy is, at least, on
life-support -- and still breathing. I think we have to go on the premise that where
there is life, there is hope, and be as optimistic as we are capable of being.

[bjobotts]

113. Don't be an idiot. If your vote is not given then it is taken by the oppositon

[bjobotts]

114. If you won't vote 4 the best that can be achieved then ur vote is taken by the worst that can happen

[bjobotts]

115. Not voting for dems is not punishing them, it's punishing you.Not the way to pressure them

[bjobotts]

116. Getting a number of primary challengers, get involved with local dem party-that's how

[Bonobo]

7. What makes you think your "understanding" is important to anyone but yourself?

I find that a weird concept.

So you don't understand... why is that surprising?

Do you understand everything?

Or does everything that Atticus not understand fall into the category of "wrong" in some way?

You couldn't be that full of self-importance, could you?

[Atticus]

11. I've re-read my OP several times and have yet to find anything that even suggests that

everything I do not understand is "wrong".

Similarly, I don't see anything that suggests that I think my understanding is more important than anyone else's.

But, my understanding IS my understanding. You may post your disagreement and then we'll read YOUR understanding.

Someone drop a mouse in your Bosco or what?

[Bonobo]

18. That's dishonest. You really mean you disapprove, not you 'don't understand'.

So why be so coy?

Clearly you are making a value judgment, not expressing your lack of understanding.

What you really mean is that it's fucked up and wrong.

It is obvious. Better to just be straight.

[Atticus]

26. I said exactly what I meant. Your concern with "dishonesty" and being "straight"

apparently doesn't extend to your own posts.

If left-handed name-calling is all you have to contribute, why bother?

[w8liftinglady]

8. we are really lucky in Texas...if we can just get the vote out...great candidates

[lunatica]

9. If the Republicans win our economy is definitely doomed

We will be a third world country in less than a decade. LESS than a decade. The millions of homeless will be on street corners with their hands out begging for pennies. Criminals will own the streets. There will be three kinds of people below the wealthy class. Those who survive by joining the military and those who serve the wealthy and those who are poverty stricken homeless.

If anyone thinks that can't happen they aren't paying attention.

[Cal33]

70. "If the Reps. win our eocnomy is definitely doomed"

And possibly our already very shakey democracy along with it.

[Grinchie]

77. It already is. Open your eyes.

OMG Less than a Decade you cry!

It's happening now unfortunately, so many of us are preparing for the aftermath. Hopefully the quicker the collapse, the better off we will be.

At least that's my analysis, and no fear tactics or propaganda or evil boogeymen are going to cause me to eat another shit sandwich or "Take one for the Gipper".

[AllTooEasy]

88. 8 straight months of positive private sector job gains...

...following 2 years of months with job loses.

Yeah, let's bring the Repugs back in.

[Grinchie]

120. Hah hah hah hah hah. Got a link for those empty words?

[Techn0Girl]

121. Job Sector GAINS ???? R U Serious ????

Because on my planet, America has not gained ANY jobs the past 2 years. We've only slightly diminished the losses.
Google is your friend.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cewbd.t03.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703946504575469331075476058.html


Seriously ... this kind of uninformed cheerleading does nothing for anybody.

[provis99]

10. here's the irony.

the most reliable, active voters that the Democrats have are the liberals, particularly those types who show up on DU. Despite the party's constant insulting of the left, they turn out and volunteer at higher rates than any other Democratic group. The ones who won't turn out at the November elections are the wishy-washy DLC types who get everything they want from the administration. They are the most unreliable voters among the Democratic bloc, yet are constantly flattered and coddled by the leadership.

Maybe we need to stop chastising frustrated DUers, who nonetheless vote for what little it is worth, and start critizing the DLC/conservative Democrats who rarely bother to vote during midterm elections.

[Egnever]

15. and yet if you listen to DU

its exactly the suposedly "reliable" voters that are threatening to sit it out.... Ironic indeed. Maybe they arent really that reliable in the first place?

[provis99]

16. they'll vote. They just love to complain. I do to.

I've been on record as saying that voting is useless, you never wind up deciding an election with your one vote, yet I tromp happily out to the voting booth when election day rolls around. Some kind of sourpuss/idealist cognitive dissonance thing going on there.

[readmoreoften]

28. You hope we'll vote. Keep saying we're liars and fakers and see what that gets you.

If anything, Obama apologists have sickened me to the point of no interest in the Democratic Party. I have one Democrat I'm voting for in the fall and I won't vote for Obama in 2012. I don't care if he's running against Palin. I'd rather someone who fucks me over just be upfront about it. Besides, Palin can't get away with destroying Social Security or Education or Unions like the Obama Administration can. I'll vote 3rd party unless he's primaried.

[LibDemAlways]

53. The DLCers have screwed up the "brand." Dems traditionally have

been the party that stood up for the interests of the ordinary person. Medicare, Social Security, the GI Bill, Unemployment Insurance, the WPA, Labor Laws, Civil Rights legislation - all originated with Dems. Rs fought every good idea tooth and nail.

That's no longer the case. Dems can no longer be counted on to go to bat for the little guy. Now they bail out wall street bankers, continue to wage useless wars, pass health insurance reform that benefits only the insurers, and refuse to prosecute Bush/Cheney for their blatant criminal activity.

And I'm supposed to reward these people with my vote only because the Rs are worse? That's insulting and unproductive. I'm with you. The devil I know is no different from the one who thinks he/she can get away with paying me lip service while picking my pocket and screwing me over.

[tavalon]

68. Fluffynutters gave me a great sig line

See below

[Nay]

81. I agree that in November, most Dems on this board will go out and vote Dem -- BUT

all those independents and usual non-voters will not come out this year OR in 2012. Those are the people who can screw elections up, not the pretty reliable hardcore Dems, because there are so many more of them than there are of us.

In 2012, if things haven't gotten DRAMATICALLY better (and I don't expect them to), the Dems are likely to lose. I'm tired of hearing how long, how hard, etc., it is to get stuff done. I KNOW that. I'm sickened by the direction this admin is taking, not that straw man of being too impatient.

[Dr.Phool]

19. If god had intended for us to vote,

He would have given us candidates.

Who are you to question the lord?

[emilyg]

22. I first voted for

JFK. Never missed voting Dem. I am not so "reliable" now.

[RainDog]

23. +1000

sometimes I wonder if Obama's advisors want him to lose.

but then I realize that the truth is they just don't give a fuck about the American people who are suffering so much at this time.

...because some CEO might not like them.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. Any hard numbers to back up your assertions? Thanks in advance for a link? (nt)

[polmaven]

57. Do you have any links

for your claim about "the wishy-washy DLC types who get everything they want from the administration. They are the most unreliable voters among the Democratic bloc, yet are constantly flattered and coddled by the leadership"?

On this board, it is the Dems who are further to the left that are the ones dong the most complaining and making threats that they won't vote because they have not been given everything they want. Never mind that the will get NOTHING they want if we allow the (R)s to control Congress again.

[ProudDad]

93. Shit, Progressives haven't been "given" ANYTHING WE WANT! ( n/t)

[polmaven]

101. So not getting everything is

not getting anything....OK....If you say so. I know I feel a whole lot better with Dems in charge, but I guess for some it is all or nothing....and NOW!!!! Once I left my childhood, I realized that wasn't going to happen.

[suzie]

75. We must have worked in different campaigns.

Because the campaigns I've worked in, the folks with the same attitude as those on DU who call themselves "left, progressives", show up occasionally to make a few phone calls, then have to leave really quickly because they have other business. They're never the volunteers who work day after day, year after year.

It's the group that so-called progressives like to label as "DLCers", although most of them would have ever heard of the term, who show up and do the work. In the Obama campaign, we had former Republicans who showed up to work way more than the "left".

But the "progressives" do always have time to be on hand for some kind of discussion group, or a speaker.

[Ozymanithrax]

17. Some prefer to vote for a Republican with their ass...

rather than support a Democrat with a vote.

I suspect they think they are sending a message.

The message Democrats will hear is that Republicans won, so Democrats are too liberal.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Except REAL liberals know the truth, no matter what the

DLC fifth columnists claim. Real liberals know you don't win on liberal issues by voting for conservatives.

The DLC has been trying to burn down the party for the past 30 years. That taste of ash in your mouth as the Repulbicans take over? That's a gift from the DLC.

The big myth is that OBAMA defeated the republicans in '08. No. It was the Republicans that defeated the republicans. If Hillary had been the candidate, SHE would have defeated them. If Kucinich had been the candidate, HE'D have defeated them. '08 was a vote against the Republican policies, Republican wars, Republican economics - why, then, did we immediately start caving to the republicans on EVERY FUCKING ISSUE? Democrats had a commanding lead, a true mandate for change, and then changed nothing. If Democrats lose in the fall, it'll be for what they did NOT do, not for what they did.

If the DLC and the DNC want RW candidates to go up against the republicans, they'll have to muddle along without my vote. My money, time and votes only go to progressives from here on out.

Since it looks like the republicans are intent on putting up batshit crazy teabaggers I think it's a moot point anyway. They're not going to win shit. My only concern is it will 'prove' to the fifth columnists that putting up republicans in democratic drag is a winning strategy.

[Ozymanithrax]

83. There are two parties in this country. One or the other will be in power.

An aware liberal knows that the worst possible Democratic administration is better than the best possible republican administration . The worst possible Democratically controlled Congress or Senate will be better than the best possible Republican controlled Congress or Senate. An aware liberal knows that there is a difference between the parties, though it is small.

If they don't, then they haven't a clue to how our system or our government works. They are unaware of the poltical reality.

That doesn't mean they are not liberal, just that they don't understand our political system or its history.

I didn't characterize some liberals is REAL (all in caps yet, trying to cast insults much), because that is just bullshit. People can be liberal and unable to "pour piss form a boot with the instructions written on the heal."

The DLC are a moderate to right of center faction of the Democratic Party who have a pathetic winning streak since Bill Clinton; and Hillary Clinton is a charter member of the DLC, which makes the whole DLC fifth columnist claim just weird.

As for 2008, I think Hillary could have won, just as Obama won. I supported Hillary, and considered her a slightly more liberal than Obama and much friendler to human rights (gays). But Kucinich would have lost in a landslide, even against Geriatric/Stupid. His heart may be in the right place, but the American people have rejected him for anything but a Congressmen every time he came up for election. He will never come within a thousand miles of being nominated by the Democratic Party. In this respect, he is a lot like Ron Paul.

Finally, please keep it real rather than trying to slip into some alternate history.

[applegrove]

24. +1000

[Lugnut]

27. I've never failed to vote.

I don't plan to start now. I'll be voting for Democratic candidates in November.

[pa28]

29. I'm sure they'll vote but that's not what I'm worried about.

What I'm worried about is their participation at GOTV time.

I'm guessing you and most of the people here are committed enough that you have spent time volunteering on campaigns. You know there is a certain "type" that will sacrifice countless hours to stuffing envelopes, phone banking, knocking on doors and passing out leaflets.

I've known quite a few of this particular "type" and I, not surprisingly, see many who fit the mold right here on DU. I always am a little in awe of this particular type of person because they seem to spend countless hours in totally thankless jobs just because they believe. If you were that type of person what would make you the most angry? For me it would be your candidate winning (in some small part due to your efforts) and then continuing to support the status quo. Upholding the trends which are currently eroding the interests of the middle class in favor of big capital and corporations.

From the sample of opinion I've seen on this board quite a few of these "professional left" types will be no shows when the rubber hits the road in November.

And BTW when is a good time to argue tactics and priorities? After election day, win or lose, we'll be already looking toward the next election and I'm guessing the advice will be to keep our mouths shut. IMO now is as good a time as any to talk strategy.

[tavalon]

71. Okay, I'll cop to that one

I've done GOTV and other volunteering activities in the last decade with my most enthusiastic stuff in 2008. I'm voting Democrat (see my post above) but no, I will not volunteer. I've figured out a kluge to allow myself to vote in somewhat good conscience. I can't even imagine being able to motivate others with a straight face. And it would be soul killing. So yeah, they've lost a ground troop here.

[Hissyspit]

30. "when the election is over and we have carried the day, THEN we can argue tactics & priorities"

Oh, really?

I will vote straight Dem ticket in November. As soon as the 2008 election was over, anyone arguing tactics and priorities was told that they shouldn't be arguing tactics and priorities. (Not that it worked.) And a little later they were told not to argue tactics and priorities. (Not that it worked.) About a year ago they were told they shouldn't be arguing tactics and priorities. (Not that it worked.) Now we're being told not to argue tactics and priorities. (Doubt it will work.) After the election we will be told not to argue tactics and priorities... (And we will be written off, taken for granted and insulted ... and told not to argue tactics and priorities.)

Don't mean to be Mr. Stick In The Mud, but come on.

[Atticus]

31. I share your frustration. I just think, as you apparently do, that there must be a

way to register our dissatisfaction than to help elect Republicans. They, for sure, don't give a damn about our priorities.

I'm for a public opton, ending "Don't ask; don't tell", card check for unions and getting all our people out of both Iraq and Afghanistan---and I will be working to keep as many Democrats in Congress as possible.

Thanks for you response.

[YankmeCrankme]

35. But, the Dems you are working to keep in office don't share those beliefs. nt.

[Atticus]

36. That was sorta like---my POINT! Even though not all Democrats strongly favor all

the items on my personal list of priorities, I will still support them if the alternative is a Republican.

I don't consider this "hold my nose" voting, just "deep sigh" voting.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atticus]

100. "BTW, you're a retarded, drug addled, pony wanting, selfish, peace loving hippie and are irrelevant

so we don't need to listen to you."

This is so self-indulgent and lame on so many levels that it is simply unnecessary to respond.

And, your assertion that I have attacked the Democratic base is so transparently false as to require no response.

I have no idea what motivates such posts, but hope you figure it out and deal with it.

[YankmeCrankme]

128. My first delete...and no notification of why it was deleted...thanks mods

All these posts that complain about those that are disillusioned and not motivated to work this election are all directed at the base. Those are the people most vocal about disillusionment. Your post is just a more polite and genteel attempt to do the same. For someone who has one of my favorite fictional characters as his nick you perhaps should try his advice.

If the Republicans do take back the house and Senate, not really convinced they will, but for argument sake suppose they do. They won't have a supra majority to pass any legislation, something the Dems argued they needed, and with a Democratic President surely he would veto any bill passed that was detrimental to the people, right? And without a supra majority the Rs couldn't override his veto.

So, what's the worry? Oh, that a lot of Dems are really Republican in practice. But, we should vote for them because...because why?

[polmaven]

58. The Republicans who will take over

share even fewer, so how will that help?

[The Magistrate]

32. Oh, We Must Go Out And Vote For The Democrat, Sir: No Question

"The four most dangerous words in the language are 'It can't get worse...'."

[eridani]

34. I've been a constand critic of Obama and the administration, but I will never, ever

--vote for a Republican. And I gave up voting for third parties when it became clear that most have not the vaguest plan for actually talking to large numbers of voters.

[eilen]

40. I used to think that

but locally I am going to vote for a republican in the state senate. John DeFrancisco helped us. My husband was getting the run around from the unemployment office here in NY. They delayed his unemployment checks for over 2 months. There is nothing more frustrating than dealing with the NYS unemployment office, since there isn't actually an office anymore, just an automated 800 number. There is not an employee there that has any actual accountability on an individual case and you get a different person every time you call after the 30 minutes of menus and being on hold-- if the call center decides you are worthy of being on hold and doesn't hang up on you. We appealed to the governor's office who is a Democrat and got nowhere--just some form letter email. It was not until we contacted our State Senate Rep did any progress occur and his office return emailed promptly, then checked back to make sure he received his check. The Democrats we have here in NYS -- particularly those with a bunch of power are cheating criminal greedheads (Pedro Espada I'm talking to you). I'll vote for Cuomo for Guv., but John D has my vote forever.

So shoot me. I am actually voting for a candidate that cared about who they represented that happens to have an R after his name.

On a federal level, I don't want the bat shit evil crazies to regain the house so I'll be voting Gillibrand and Schumer for Senate and Dan Maffei for Congress.

[Jade Fox]

43. ''

[surrealAmerican]

37. I think, as the election comes closer, most ...

... of the people who now claim they will not vote will vote. They will come to understand that voting for "the lesser of two evils" is better than handing their governance over to those who will cause the most harm.

[lonestarnot]

41. On this we can agree!

:thumbsup:

[TBF]

44. I guess it depends upon defining the "cause" -

I see inequality no matter who is in office. That is the "cause" I am working on - how to remove capitalism in hopes of lessening the inequality and just maybe saving our planet.

[CBGLuthier]

45. Some folks just love to say,"I told you so."

Some here would really get a genuine kick off the republicans gaining power and fucking us even more just so they can say, "I told you so."

This is, sadly, just human nature. Can't do much about those people.

[Diane R]

47. Agreed. I'm seeing a lot of threads and journals by posters who seem to be itching to lose to Repub

[Capitalocracy]

60. You're confusing prediction with hope.

You're taking the comments of people who predict a loss (which I'm not ready to do yet, I think it's still up in the air) and projecting onto them a desire to lose. Not everyone sees the world as they wish it was, not everyone expects a win just because they want a win. There are some legitimate reasons to suspect that we're going to take a loss in the upcoming election.

The economic situation is crap. People are just starting to realize just how crap it is, yet many on the more conservative side have yet to understand what the solutions are to this economic situation. They still think we just need to cut taxes.

The Democrats have failed to truly change things, not that it was likely that they could in such a short time, but their lackluster performance has not made it seem likely that they will in the future either.

The Democrats have failed to differentiate themselves from the Republicans. For those in the know who pay attention to politics, the current Dem position is the Republican position from just a few years ago.

But there are also factors in our favor. The right has gone so insane that there may be some defection among those few Republicans, conservatives, and independents whose polling place isn't in the mental institution just yet. The Dems are banking on this making up for the lack of enthusiasm among the base, but without that base actively recruiting the moderates, that advantage will be lost.

So it's still up in the air. We could have huge losses, we could have some losses but retain the majority, and who knows, we could possibly even pick up seats. But there's nothing to indicate that anything will change in the way the administration and Congress are governing and legislating even if we had a miraculous party victory. At least some loss in this election is not unlikely, but in terms of a progressive legislative agenda, defeat is almost certain. And that's why we're upset.

The bottom line is Obama needs to show some strong leadership. He needs to stop giving in to the Republicans all the time and legislating for them. He needs to follow his campaign promises and show that he's willing to take on challenges without insulting his own base or firing whoever Glenn Beck tells him to. Leadership, honesty, and transparency are factors that are extremely important to independent voters, even if they don't always agree with everything that leader does. Strong leadership will energize the base and convince independents that even if we're a little more left-leaning than they like, at least the Dems will govern with the interests of the people in mind and not any special interest group.

I don't want to say I told you so. I would love nothing more than to find out that Obama had some secret master plan all along and that at the end of his term he's going to put in a whirlwind of progressive legislation that creates a new age of prosperity and democracy. But I'd be lying if I told you I expected that to happen. And I'm sorry I can't show up for a ticker tape parade every time we take some small half-step forward, especially when we just took two steps back.

[Crystal Clarity]

46. I too will be doing all I can to help in the upcoming elections

Great OP. Recommended. :thumbsup:

[JackDragna]

48. At what point is it acceptable to withdraw support?

The administration continues military occupations around the world. They support the extraordinary rendition of "terrorism" suspects and trying Americans and others in military courts. They turned their back on "Don't Ask, Don't tell." They didn't go to bat for real health care reform and settled for a bill that funnels billions into the hands of the same insurance industry that has abused the public so thoroughly. They fired people who were the subject of Fox News talking points so as to avoid the scorn of the far right. They gave billions to the corporate sector in bailouts and have done very little to push for new oversight into the industries that helped foster the economic collapse. They're starting a war on public education, promoting the privatization of education services. In public, they call their base retards and idiots.

Please tell me why this administration deserves my vote. Your entire post sounds like cheerleading. "Support the side we like! We can argue about tactics and priorities when we win!" What makes you think the administration will be any more interested then than they are now? When will you and the Obama supporters realize he's just the different side of a pro-corporate coin, one who smiles and says nice things to those of left-leaning political persuasion so they'll remain mollified as the country is sold off piecemeal?

This isn't a matter anymore of minor quibbles over positions taken in the party platform. The president, and the national Democratic leadership, has declared war on progressive political causes. I will not vote for people who support positions I consider morally reprehensible.

[Cherchez la Femme]

49. But which cause?

There are so very many Democrats are disappointed with...

[Plucketeer]

50. I'll vote for any GOP candidates that I feel are worthy

So far, I'll be voting straight Democratic. ;)

[NJmaverick]

51. K & R

[Capitalocracy]

54. Let me point something out

There's "the cause" and there's "the candidate". And sometimes supporting the candidate does not support the cause. I mean, if Joe Lieberman were running as a Dem this election, would you really see voting for him as supporting the cause? If we have a bunch of Republicans in disguise and Koch-funded DLC candidates in office, then our "cause" dies even if we get our "party" numbers. We have to support the cause over the candidates, and sometimes that means making tough decisions, like fighting hard primary challenges and withholding our support for non-progressive candidates and instead supporting the few good candidates and showing the rest that they have to appeal to us in order to win.

Now, we're not necessarily being as smart about it as we could. We need to be more organized about this. We need to give money, work, get out the vote, etc., but only for the candidates that are truly part of our "cause". And rather than just getting fed up and staying home, we need to get MORE active, even if that means taking drastic measures. For example, instead of staying home on your own, thereby dropping out of the political system and making it easier for the candidates to win among a smaller electorate by shifting to the right and picking up Republican votes and legislating in their favor, you could organize a voter boycott if your district has no good candidates and send a real message that the votes are there, but we're not giving them away for free to a Republican in a donkey suit.

[joanbarnes]

56. Stay home?!

I say amen to this!

[sellitman]

118. Why would you say this?

You staying in for Pizza Delivery?

[David Zephyr]

59. K&R.

You nailed it, Atticus. :)

[tavalon]

65. I've gotten over myself and I will vote

but I had to play a bit of a game with myself. I am so galled that the Democrats were and continue to take me for granted that I decided I would vote for them out of spite. It's been hilarious to watch them pretend they couldn't get anything done with majorities in the House and Senate so now I want to watch the acrobatics they'll have to go through to explain why they can't get anything done with supermajorities in both houses. In a way, it's the ultimate way to out them for the weasels they seem to be.

[grattsl]

69. I have fought long and hard for the Democratic Party, BUT

I no longer think the party is fighting for what I'm fighting for. I didn't leave the party, it left me. I cannot support what the Dems are asking me to support. When it comes back to the left I will consider returning to it. Until then it is the Green party for me. At least they support what I support. If that offends anyone, sorry. At least I'm giving a chance to know what it will take to get my vote back. Balls in your court.

[sellitman]

119. With your 5th post you are announce you are not voting Democratic

This isn't the Green Underground.

But we do serve a very nice pizza pie.

[Techn0Girl]

122. That's right ...keep up the old Group think....

Because if someone says something different we might, you know, have doubts that maybe we're getting screwed.

So intimidate anyone new into thinking your way.

Good think people here doesn't think like Teabaggers.
We're so much better.

[Art_from_Ark]

126. Check out those Green Party candidates in Arizona

Street people recruited by a Republican

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/us/politics/07candidates.html?_r=2&hp

[Chulanowa]

72. But... but...

Giving up is so much easier! it lets the lethargic, doughy masses sit on their ass and whine!

[liberation]

73. Yeah "taking it" is soooo much better...

I love the implication some of you are trying to make to correlate "protest" with "giving up."


Dem Party Uber Alles! That's pretty much it, no?

[Chulanowa]

117. Shaking your fist on the internet is useless

Democratic party over lethargic dumbasses, yes. Go back to wishing elves were real.

[Techn0Girl]

123. Yup - and it's that kind of sinple thinking from the base that keeps BOTH parties in power.

[rhett o rick]

74. Seems we are only deciding on how hot the water will be cooking the frog.

The Democrats have certainly turned down the water temperature, but is that a good thing?

Dont get me wrong, I am going to fight all the way. It just looks hopeless. Sure we have a majority now but it didnt help us get rid of the Patriot Act and domestic spying? Did the war criminals that killed over a million people get away Scot free?

[Techn0Girl]

76. The Sheeple in this Country will not do a darn thing until things get MUCH MUCH worse.....

Maybe when more people lose their homes....
Maybe when more people lose their jobs....
Maybe when more people can not feed their children....

THEN maybe people will get to the heart of the problem - the class war that the wealthiest are waging on all the rest of us.

The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats are willing to throw a few crusts of bread our way - a few Walmart jobs - whereas Republicans would see us all working for corporations for free as "prison reform".

Screw that. I refuse to vote - I voted for Obama and what did that get me? Nothing real.
I'm unemployed. I have no health insurance.

Let things get a LOT worse. Republicans are good at that.
Maybe then things will change.

[Scurrilous]

78. K & R

:thumbsup:

[austin78704]

79. I have a question

Let's assume the democrats win everything again. Hell, let's even assume they pick up extra seats.

Then what?

Last time around they all campaigned on ideas and policies we all liked and they apparently had no intention of going through with, and their lying got them elected. If they get reelected, what on Earth is their incentive to suddenly quit lying and start doing their jobs?

That's right, there is no incentive, so it isn't going to happen. We'll get another two years just like the last two years.

You didn't do it in your OP, but many on DU have--they accuse me and others like me of being the problem. As if everything were sunshine and flowers until I woke up one day and decided to hate democrats and destroy them. Well, that's a bunch of bullshit. What you're seeing on DU, and just about everywhere politics gets discussed is the natural result of being lied to.

We still support "the cause," it's just that we don't think the D party does anymore. We want to convince them to change their ways, using the tools available to us--that would be our votes.

Don't forget: my vote is my fucking vote, not yours, not the anointed candidate, and not the party. And I have decided to give that vote to the person who best earns it--regardless of party affiliation. If you don't like it, convince the democrats to earn that vote back, along with all of the others they've pissed away. You certainly won't scare or shame me into voting for candidates I have no faith in.

[AllTooEasy]

89. Here's your answer

The country will have slim to moderate economic growth, in comparison to an economic down turn.

The Reps won't shut down the gov't like they did during the Clinton Administration

If we get more seats, Elizabeth Warren will get her appointment and won't have to worry about a filibuster. Her pending recess appointment will last for Obama's full term.

Health care could expand, rather than being defunded by a Repuke Congress.

We won't have to worry about House Speaker Boehner bogging down the WH with all his "reform" (cherry picking) hearings

Obama won't have a problem appointing his next progressive Supreme Court appointee.

..and I could write a thousand other reasons.

The idea that the Repugs can't make things worse for women, minorities, homosexuals, is absurb. However bad you think this are, you are an absolute idiot if you think the Repugs can't make this country worse, especially for non-white, non-Christian, non-rich, gay Americans.

[austin78704]

109. That wasn't anything near an answer

What is their incentive to do any of that?

Yeah, they COULD do all of that, just like they COULD have done a whole lot else in the last two years, but there is no perceptible reason why they will do that. They haven't done much so far, so what would change their minds?

Sure, I'll grant they've done a few things, HCR included some reform measures, for example. But they wouldn't have needed most of those reforms had they fought for a better plan than mandatory insurance in the first place. Their progress in all ventures so far has been pretty much like that: float a turd, febreeze it, demand credit for the febreeze.

As for the idea that the Rs couldn't be worse, where, exactly, did you see that in MY post? Or is it your SOP to push strawmen?

So I'll repeat my question: what magical force do we all expect to convince the democrats to change their tune, stop being marginally-less-bad-than-republicans, and start actually representing us?

[Politicalboi]

84. It's too bad we don't have a TV show like

American Idol that can take actual quotes from the past 2 years and let the viewers vote for the best one. And when election time comes, they also do a show and tally the real votes. We need more good guys to cheer on others to vote for the ones that will make America a better place for the little guy. And I'm serious. I think it would be a hit. We got the crazies like Palin, Bachmann, Brewer, Angle, Foxx and those are just the women. We have Diaper Dave Vitter the C-Street gang, The party of NO! who said NO! to millions of people who needed an unemployment extensions. We need to remind the average Joe who put us in this mess. I would bet my life that only a small percentage of Americans even knows what Citizens United is. That is how serious this is.

And it will also make it harder for an election to be stolen if more people were paying attention to the results.

[johan helge]

85. Well said, Atticus. Here's what Krugman said:

Krugman (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30krugman.html?_r=1):

"Just to be clear, progressives would be foolish to sit out this election: Mr. Obama may not be the politician of their dreams, but his enemies are definitely the stuff of their nightmares."

[bobburgster]

86. Here, here......and I'll take it one step further.

Stop your bitching.
If you don't like Obama or his policies....do something constructive about it for god's sake.
Run for office, Mass protest, just do something, besides regurgitating your dislike for his presidency over, and over again in new threads. You just gripe about him, and recommend/back-slap each others post. What good are you doing for your cause? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I honestly don't see your point.

[ProudDad]

92. it's "Game On!" It's time to kick ass and take names.

Well, they've got YOU to bite on the fear based bullshit...

I seem to remember the Democrats "keeping their powder dry" from Jan 2007 until they got a Dem pResident into the White House...

Then for 2 years they caved to republicans and their own blue dogs BEFORE EVEN BEGINNING TO FIGHT!!!

And now they're puzzled that anyone to the left of Chris Dodd is pissed off?!?!?!?!

Why the FUCK should we give them more chances.

Let the republicans preside over the end of the cheap oil era...it really doesn't matter...

And work locally to survive the Long Emergency -- the confluence of post-peak oil, catastrophic climate destabilization and economic collapse...

Just don't waste your time on national politics anymore, it's bullshit fed by oil and printing presses pumping out "dollars"...for more war to steal more people's resources for the lazy few...

It's FOMA...

www.transitionus.org


On edit: As Louis Black said, "the two parties are like a bowl of SHIT looking at itself in the mirror!" Truer words were never spoken... The two right-wings of the Big Business Perpetual War Party...

[Scurrilous]

94. Kick

:thumbsup:

[PBass]

96. It's going to take a lifetime to get where we wanna go... a long haul. Keep pushing. (NT)

[Drale]

98. When it comes down to it

a democrat sitting in an officer playing a playstation all day is more productive then an republican any day of the week.

[JerseygirlCT]

99. Not showing up helps nothing. nt

[AldebTX]

102. K&r

[recovering democrat]

103. Thank you for saying so

Yes you may have those who disagree. But the choice of Democrats and the insanity of the right wing crazies has no comparison. They CANNOT take over this country.