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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:34 PM
Original message
How To Protect Yourself As The U.S. Economy Collapses
How To Protect Yourself As The U.S. Economy Collapses
posted with permission from http://sane-ramblings.blogspot.com/2010/08/how-to-protect-yourself-as-us-economy.html

The winds of a collapsing economy are blowing, and in the months to come they will gain hurricane force. On Tuesday (8/24) the front page of The Wall Street Journal characterized the latest Fed meeting as "among the most contentious in Ben Bernanke's four-and-a-half year tenure" as chairman. The Fed knows the economy is faltering but can't agree on what to do next and it is nearly out of new options.

Meanwhile the FHA, which guaranteed nearly half the real estate loans this year, and accepts down payments as low as 3.5% is sinking and will need a taxpayer bailout. As The Wall Street Journal put it (8/24), "The agency's reserves are falling sharply as many of those loans have defaulted at a rapid clip."

And from CNN, "Plunging home sales could sink recovery." http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/24/real_estate/existing_home_sales/index.htm.

To protect yourself, try to save $20,000 in cash so you can weather an enormous financial storm. How?

If you have an old car, maintain it rather than replace it, which will save you a $600 a month car payment and higher insurance costs. And discuss ways to cut unnecessary insurance costs with your insurance broker. If you have an old TV set, skip the new technologies for now and enjoy what you have. My TV is 9 years old and works fine.

If you have expensive but unnecessary items on a payment plan such as an ATV or a boat, try to sell them and get out from under those payments.

If you're going to spend money, invest in your health. If you have a lump, go see the doctor for without good health, you won't be able to work and may not even be able to enjoy your life. If need be most doctors will offer you a payment plan.

If your house is or will be in foreclosure, negotiate a revised and sharply lower 30 year fixed rate mortgage with your lender. They don't want to take your house back, they have too many now. If you can no longer afford the house, negotiate a short sale discounted price with the lender and price it to sell. The lender would prefer you sell it than to carry an empty house on its books and have to sell it later.

If you rent an apartment, negotiate a lower rent with your landlord. Vacancies are growing, landlords are offering move in specials and they do not want to lose a good tenant.

If you're buried in credit card debt, negotiate a forgiveness for most of the debt with the card providers and an affordable payment plan for the balance. They don't want you to declare bankruptcy or to default.

If you can no longer afford your car payments, negotiate a settlement with the finance company and give them back the car. They too don't want you to declare bankruptcy or default.

If you're getting calls from bill collectors, speak to them, don't hide from them for their incessant calling will only make your life miserable. In many cases, once they get past their initial demands, they too will negotiate a settlement with you, for collecting some money is better than getting none.

If you like to read, watch movies or listen to music, visit your local library and for free bring home books and CD's.

Also, don't be too proud to go to a food bank. Things are already so bad, that in the U.S., food banks feed 12% of the population in whole or in part. That's 37 million people, and their numbers are growing. In addition, clip coupons, join membership clubs and shop sales.

Then take all the money you're saving and put it in an FDIC insured account. Those accounts pay almost nothing but at least you will still have the money as you strive for $20,000. When it comes to Wall Street, don't trust them. It's a rigged game just as it was two years ago before the financial panic that led to the bailouts.

One more thing. It is crucial that you develop a marketable skill or cross train at work so you become indispensable. This could keep you employed.

But remember, life is about more than money. Meditating or visiting a park can bring you relaxation and pleasure and both are free. So is the company of friends.

As in the Great Depression, together we will get through this financial catastrophe and hopefully build a much better nation, than the one that throws its money away on endless weapons and wars, and one that bails out big campaign contributors at the expense of working class America. This financial collapse is the only way to get the mass of U.S. citizens involved and restore representative government.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Keep up with your neighbors and friends, grow a garden if you can
Helping each other is also crucial, and knowing who your neighbors/friends are and what they can do for you and you for them will help a lot.

Plant a few seeds if you have space. Anything is better than nothing.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. "grow a garden if you can" - That is very good advice. ..
Thank you for sharing it in this thread.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Community, community, community. nt
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Failing all else: Find a local shop with a dumpster
and at least pick up some veg once in a while.

And from experience: Also good for making your own dog food. (if you are going to make dog food, please do some research, they can't eat everything we do)
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. #1 Occupation in the US in 2012: Dumpster Diving
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. A lot of the stuff I have acquired in the past 5 years, were the consequences of my neighbor's
upgrades: woven rugs, electronics, tools, etc.!
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. one thing I realized about using a food bank

When people who are short on food use a food bank, they are added to the statistics the government uses to determine how many hungry people there are. This drives policy and public opinion.

So do NOT be shy about going to a food bank. Your use will be counted as part of the nationwide need.

Send the message. Don't be embarrassed. Stand up not only for yourself, but for all the other men, women and children who may not have enough food to get by.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Re: government collecting statistics through food banks...
Thank you. You have made a wise observation.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. +1 nt
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Absolutely, don't be too proud to go to a food bank!
It's why people like me who still have money to contribute do contribute to them, so that we'll all get to eat.

I'd add a few things to the above list, all of which are good ideas.

First, buy a cheap paperback cookbook and learn to cook if you don't already know how. Thrift shops usually have book sections and those book sections occasionally have old, dog eared copies of Fannie Farmer or other general books. Those will serve you better even than the food bank does, since the food bank often has processed stuff with a long shelf life but too much salt. You'll need to supplement it with cheap and healthfully prepared stuff if you want to stay healthy.

Get a pack of needles and a few spools of thread and practice darning, mending, and patching. Those three skills will get more useful life out of your non work clothing. Learn how to take cuffs and collars apart and turn them. That will get more life out of your work clothing. Don't turn up your nose at that ugly purple thrift shop stuff. A couple of dollar's worth of RIT dye can make a whole bunch of it not only wearable, but gorgeous.

If you're sinking into hopelessness, get the hell out of your house for half an hour every day. Just walking around the block can clear cobwebs in your head and improve your outlook. Yes, I know you don't want to talk to anybody, but things are so bad now that they don't want to talk to you, either.

Keep contact with other people even if it's only by mail, phone or online.

Spend your time constructively, learning a practical skill like fixing a toilet, rewiring light fixtures, knitting, baking, or anything else you can eventually trade for enough food to get you through a day. The simplest life skills are worth something in an economy gone haywire when people can't afford to call a pro to do a simple fix or go to a store for a replacement.

Above all, don't fall into the trap of thinking you are alone. You're not. Even if you have to go to the library to find us, know that we're all still here for you.

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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. K & R
There were a few people that reached out to us during the ten months my husband was out of work in 2008-2009. The fact that people loved us enough to invite us out for a cup of coffee or a beer, we could get together with them for a potluck dinner or some other free/inexpensive entertainment, really kept us going. There's someone in your life that could use a hug or a few minutes to talk.

Network. Another thing that helped us focus on anything else besides our situation was trying to help others with theirs. We got chatting with a guy at Costco's food court (hot dog and a soda, still $1.50,) and discovered he was looking for work. We put him in touch with someone we knew who was looking for what the guy had experience in.

If you're hunting for a great and inexpensive cookbook, my mom gave me a copy of the Betty Crocker Cookbook almost 20 years ago. I still use it almost every day. The recipes are basic, there's photos, and you'll learn to cook. I love to cook, but I am always double-checking a recipe, or looking up information on stuff like how long to roast a turkey.

If you have a little extra money and would like to make a donation to the food bank, don't forget people's pets. Costco has pretty good Kirkland brand dog and cat food that is reasonably priced. If you're really feeling flush, pick up a case of diapers or a can of baby formula and donate that. Some new parent who has more month than money will probably cry when they get it.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. my grandmother had LOTS of depression-era tips...one of her favorites was to
hang out at the pier and compliment fishermen coming in with their catch. she'd shoot the shit about fishing and sooner or later someone would offer her a fish to take home. she also dumpster dived for things like onions and potatoes. i don't think they called it that back then.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. but but but...
someone just yesterday was screaming (well, commenting) about hyperinflation...if you have $20,000 set aside (hoarding it according to some) and hyperinflation hits...you might have enough for a cup of coffee...

sP
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. If one has $20,000 in savings, one is not nearly as likely...
...to suffer the trauma of losing one's home, car and other possessions compared with the person living paycheck to paycheck as many people do.

Yes, there will be rampant inflation and we'll discuss ways of dealing with it as we get closer to that time.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. A lot of people can burn through that in under a year
especially if they've got kids and are tied to a mortgage they took on when they thought the good times would last forever, so why not live in that dream house?

They can burn through it in under 6 months if they've got no clue how to be poor, even without the kids and the mortgage.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
53. Now is the time for people to learn to be poor, it's a necessary skill nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. $20,000 will buy 7 or more acres of land in the Rural South, free & clear.
Property Values in these areas are "bubble-proof", already as low as they can go,
and Property Taxes are LOW.
Clean Water is abundant, and the growing season is long.

Most places west of the Mississippi, WATER is a problem that will only get worse.

$20,000 won't buy much gold, and you can't eat that anyway.
Hording CASH is giving it to inflation.
Playing it in The Market is OK, if you like roulette.

Its not for everybody, but if you have the skills,
it is hard to find a better place to make a little bit of money go a long way.
The South is beautiful, and belongs to everybody.
Its a shame to let the Rednecks have it all.


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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. +1
Edited on Fri Aug-27-10 10:28 PM by Alcibiades
Rather afraid to let people know this. We have seen many people coming from up north, selling their modest homes, and buying McMansions down here with the proceeds: a $400,000 house in New England and the south are very different creatures. Mainly, they are moving to places like where I live in the Triangle, and avoiding the more rural areas, where they could get a better bargain but would have less in the way of amenities.

All in all, I wouldn't be in a hurry to let people know how nice life can be in the rural south, or not too many people. While I think the newcomers have done a lot to improve the community here in Durham, most of the rural places that have seen a great many newcomers arrive have not changed for the better. It's the California problem: once people figure out someplace is a great place to live, so many people come that it's not so great any more.

Here in North Carolina, though, there are only a few places left where $20,000 will get you seven acres of anything.
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greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. Is that your porch?
It's lovely.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. Land is nice but not necessary. These folks do it on 1/10 acre in the city.
"Surrounded by urban sprawl and just a short distance from a freeway, the Dervaes Family have steadily worked at transforming this ordinary city lot into an organic and sustainable micro-farm.

This website documents the many steps the Dervaeses have taken and hopes to inspire fellow travelers on their own life-changing journey. Be inspired to take the first step..."

http://urbanhomestead.org/

I grew a lot of container veggies using D.I.Y. sub-irrigation containers. The plants do exceptionally well, I would never go back to growing in traditional containers. Saves on water use too.

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/diy-sub-irrigation/
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
60. If I drove, I'd be interested
not much in the way of transit down there -- almost none at all in Alabama. Not even in Auburn, for instance. :(
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Your furnace breaks down or your car is totalled and there isn't much of that $20K left!
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. $20000 in savings? That's higher than median savings across ALL age groups.
Certainly unattainably high for 80% of the workers below the age of 45.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. I have always lived paycheck to paycheck.
At 42 I have $3000 in savings. For 20m years of work, with a college degree as well. I had shitty jobs for a while, now have one that has allowed me to live in a modest apartment, but not to buy a house, save or invest anything.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Hang in there brother, I also rent and live paycheck to paycheck.
I have a small amount of money put away for a rainy day in an interest yielding account. It's not much, but I've kept it far away from the den of thieves that is the stock-market (also on philosophical grounds, but that is a different story). I'm debt free, though, which I realize is a big plus. All-in-all, given how badly the system scr*ws working-class people, I'd say I'm doing too badly at all.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Patronize your local ethnic food markets rather than the big grocery chain stores.
The produce is much fresher and cheaper!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Tens of millions of Americans live lives of quiet desperation from paycheck to paycheck.
It's highly unlikely that they would ever save $20,000 in cash if they have ever even seen or had that much money at one time in their lives. A collapsing economy does not bode well for the vast majority of us.

If you are poor and are getting any kind of benefits from the government you risk losing them if you accumulate too much in assets.

During the Great Depression there were still societal ties that bound the nation together. Alas, this is not the 1930s America anymore. Today this nation is so polarized with an us against them mentality that it is more ripe for a civil war than coming through and surviving anything like the Great Depression. It's far more likely that we are seeing the end of the American Empire and of things as they are or ever will be (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9023720).

The rich and powerful will get through it all as they always do. It's the less fortunate who will suffer as not only the American Empire but the society which collapses. ITEOTWAWKI
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. And are already doing what's on the list.
We need to do all this just to get by.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. You really think they all are? I doubt it.
Some do, some don't. Some do some of it. It's bizarre to believe that people who live from paycheck to paycheck could accumulate thousands of dollars in savings, especially the poor who receive government benefits like health care or food stamps who would lose them if they have too many assets.

The American population today is not that of the time of the Great Depression. For one thing, at 300+ million people it is more than twice as large as the population of 1930. At that time when we were still much more of an agrarian country people still had the knowledge and ability for self sufficiency. That is not the case today.

Growing gardens for food is nice, but does anyone think the millions in our inner cities will be doing this? What about the millions of homeless people?

The whole self sufficiency lifestyle is great, but the belief that for many millions of Americans who have neither the ability or capability to employ it is unrealistic. Accumulating thousands of dollars in savings for those living paycheck to paycheck in their lives of quiet desperation is unrealistic as well, but it is a nice, quaint notion.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. My point was more that people already are cutting where they can.
They're cutting so they can keep breathing and keep living, not so they can accumulate thousands in savings. My fault for not being clearer in my post.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. I know lots of people that bitch about having no money
a couple people at work talk about declaring bankruptcy, but they always go out to eat at lunch and they are always patronizing the soda machine at work. I can only guess at what else they spend more money than necessary on. I almost always pack a lunch and bring a 12 pack of pop from home. They have an ice machine at work so mine's just as cold as theirs, although a little watered down at the bottom of the glass!
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. Maybe it's that I'm in Michigan.
Not as many are buying lunch these days.
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Living with less is not that bad, if you don't have dependents.
I only have myself to provide for now and have been adapting and improvising for ten years now, and have learned to like it. I never throw anything away that I can repair. I learned to do my own minor concrete and electrical work around the house. I work on the car myself, unless it is something I don't have the tools for. I only go out to eat once a month with friends, cook healthy meals myself, and "brown bag" my lunches. I only see "early bird" bargain movies. I spend a lot of time at home!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Produce as much of your own food as possible.
Dry, freeze, and can as much as possible for the Winter months.

Our chickens have proved to be the most economic source of year round healthy food (Free Range Eggs).
They also recycle much of what we don't eat.

Become a BIG Energy miser!


What you can't produce yourself,
Buy in bulk, and cook from scratch.
Its healthier, and tastes better.

Buy tools, and make it yourself.
What you can't make yourself, buy 2nd hand or salvage.

Less IS More!


bvar22 & Starkraven living well on skills we learned in the 60s.
The RICHEST man in the World did not eat a better Cantaloupe than the one we had for breakfast this morning.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. +1 nt
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Excellent comments and photos.
Thanks!
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
40. I love your garden shots!
On an aside, it's sad how many HOAs won't allow residents to hang their laundry outside. "It's unsightly." :eyes:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
63. God, I love your farm, Bvar! I wish I had even a tenth of your ambition!
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great post. K&R
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
27. "This financial collapse is the only way..."
That makes the OP sound less like a prediction and more like something you're hoping for.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Not at all....
I assure you the author hopes he is wrong, but in case he is not (and he has been writing about this since late 2007) he would like to help people prepare for the worst.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. uhhh ..."life is about more than money" ???
until you have none.

ya don't enjoy the park if you're cold and hungry. ya don't find peace meditating if you're kid's cold or hungry.

This is when people in poor countries eat domestic animals -and those in wealthy countries scoff and sniff. Shit happens, and we are seeding the clouds for a shit storm with no opposition party.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. This is the part that could have helped us all.
"Then take all the money you're saving and put it in an FDIC insured account. Those accounts pay almost nothing but at least you will still have the money as you strive for $20,000. When it comes to Wall Street, don't trust them. It's a rigged game just as it was two years ago before the financial panic that led to the bailouts."

Only we need to keep our pension funds and retirement accounts out of Wall Street too. Let them play monopoly with their own money and take from each other instead of us.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. "play monopoly with their own money "
But Ponzi schemes require a continual supply of 'marks'.

The current (and recent ex. Bush 1995 'Political Capital' tour) has little to do with a libertarian philosophical opposition to Social Security as far as the Oligarchs are concerned.

It is all about putting the hook on a vast number of marks in the biggest long con there ever was.

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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. I'd like to suggest another website
that has recipes for what might be called a peasant's diet. http://www.10in10diet.com/

I made some chili which lasted me for a week and 1/2. I really don't mind having it every night. Many cultures eat the same stew or dish every night with more variety provided on feast days and celebrations (it is part of what makes those days special). It also saves time in preparation. I can bring it for lunch too. I also get the big container of old fashioned oats at Aldi's and supplement with a handful of chopped walnuts and raisins for my breakfast every morning. It is a cheap breakfast. I do change it up once a week with 2 scrambled eggs with some onion and fresh chopped produce stirred in. So will make up a big inexpensive dish, a big salad with some grain in it on one day, eat off that for the week. I can do the same for breakfast but generally make that day to day.

I don't use her recipes word for word-- I sneak in what I have on hand and what is in season. You can obtain black lentils, red lentils, red rice more cheaply at an Indian Market.

Dried beans have gone up to $1.25 a bag at the grocer. They used to be 99 cents.

I generally will eat meat once a day. Many days I don't do that. Aldi's is also a good way to get food cheaply. I am not as anxious to eat their eggs and meat. I don't trust it-- I'll spend a little more at the Farmer's market for those things. Since I eat little of them, the higher cost has less of an impact over all.

Another good resource is http://www.justpeace.org/better.htm
Better Times II
Cookbook and Almanac of Useful Information for Poor People.

I also like Anita Day's suggestions which some may find blur the edges of acceptable behavior--okay, she is unconventional. However I enjoy her kicky style.
http://home.earthlink.net/~loveguru/frugindex.htm

Now, I don't know that $20,000 in the bank is the answer. My grandfather saw his money (currency) become worthless 3 times in his lifetime. I think that learning practical skills, accumulating a circle of friends that have different skills that can share and keeping alternatives open for you is probably the best idea. Guerilla garden-- really we should be seeding our parks so everyone can eat. Don't become rooted to one spot if it is not beneficial --like hanging on to a house that you really can't pay for and thrive. There are empty houses all over the country. You can rent or squat. Really, getting out of the mindset that you need the government's permission is important. Also, don't fall for their "programs" to help you with your mortgage. You have seen how that has gone? It was designed to help the banks and wealthy people who don't give a shit if your children or pets starve (unless they want to buy a baby, gulp, adopt). You see how they behave with the 3rd world. We are no different to them once we are unable to buy what they are selling.

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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
58. Thank you for adding those resources to the thread! nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. I'm a carnivore, but that's a great website. Bookmarked!
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
39. From my lowly post beneath the banquet table,
I study where the most number of crumbs are likely to fall & try to position myself there.

Seven years ago my husband stated, "The best way to prepare for George Bush's America is to get yourself in the best physical health you can & be able to live on an $8 an hour job."

Obama's America is looking a lot like Bush's America, which was just a meaner version of Clinton's America. What a commentary on what our country has become, when a two-bit actor was one of the most influential presidents in decades. He convinced the entire middle class that government is the problem, that taxes are bad, that the social safety net is nothing but entitlement for a bunch of lazy brown people & that if we give the rich people more money it will trickle down on us. Well, we've been trickled on, that's for fucking sure!

And kudos to the poster above who stated, "Life is about more than money - unless you don't have any." I've been there & I know that when you're trying to figure out how to pay for a few groceries, the water bill & oh, by the way, where the hell are we going to live next month, a walk in the park does not do much to take your mind off your problems. It's also a time when you learn who your real friend are.

I live in a fairly affluent area & I can attest that too many are not feeling the pain of the economy & therefore are completely bereft of compassion for those who are. Instead, I see a lot of Alan Simpson attitude - people who are not doing well are losers.

These are the results of a society that doesn't value community. We are reaping what we've sown for the past several decades.


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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. Good advice.
Shop at second hand stores for kids clothes...and most adults don't really need anymore clothes. Wear out what you have. Play card or board games. Free fun.

My family lived on a farm thru The Depression and instilled in me a need to be frugal. My friend once said that when I open my coin purse, it actually squeaks from rusting. LOL.

But having savings gives one freedom. When my employer became so abusive, I could say 'Fuck You.' I had Fuck You savings.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. cook solar
If you have good southern exposure and reasonably strong sunlight, you can cook pretty much of anything solar. You can make your own cooker, but if you live more northerly and need to max out the sunlight to extend your cooking season longer into the fall and startup earlier in the springg, you can buy a quality insulated solar oven with highly polished reflectors now for under $100.

It doesn't take any more preparation time. The cooking times are longer, but you don't generally need to hover over stuff. I can be doing housework, gardening, take the dogs to the pond, etc. while stuff is cooking.

I've been experimenting with cooking solar for the past month. I have Brazilian black beans cooking right now. I've made chicken and dumplings, beef stew, cornbread and oatcakes. Tomorrow I'll be doing my first yeast-bread and pasta. I'm describing my experiences and lessons on my blog -- will be putting up solar-tested recipes when I have a bunch.

My propane bill has been slashed. It was so expensive to use the oven before, I gave it up several years ago. It was as expensive to cook myself as by pre-cooked. Now there is no comparison in the cost. And the flavor and overall quality is excellent.
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Big Bill Jefferson Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
43. Individual solutions will not work
The way for us all to be protected is through mass movements and solidarity.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
44. But if you've already hit bottom, like me....
I highly recommend looking into a 50cc moped. Many states allow 50cc mopeds to be operated without a license or insurance. They get very high mileage (usually above 80mpg) and their low speeds make the risks (see below) somewhat survivable. Functional scoots can be found used for under a thousand dollars (ride it before buying).

Several times each week I commute 35 miles (about an hour and a half) to the one part-time job I can find. It's only cost effective because I spend only $2.50 each day for transportation (a few cents extra per day can account for parts, oil, and maintenance costs, too). The current cost of my first scooter is below 16 cents per mile, and is still used daily by my girlfriend to get back and forth to her job.

Because most mopeds won't go over 35 mph, there's no real need to protect one's self any more than a mountain-biker does. If you're okay with road rash, shorts work well during the day in summer. Most states and localities have some sort of helmet law, and wearing an actual motorcycle helmet at such low speeds protects you very well. I've ridden away from two major single-vehicle accidents, with nothing more than abrasions and scratches (on the bike).

The downsides are huge, but poverty sucks and those of you who know it like I do will agree that having freedom of movement is worth almost any inconvenience it carries. Here are some of the downsides:

* It's winter all year round at night on a moped in North America. At 30mph, anything below 75 degrees is uncomfortable; 65 is unbearable without a jacket; 55 requires winter gear; 45 and below, along with wind chill, combine to make potentially fatal hypothermic and frostbite conditions. Current nighttime lows around here are already down to the mid-50s. You will never be comfortable on a moped except at mid-day in high summer.

* Most have bad emissions by comparison to cars; four-stroke mopeds are less bad than two-strokes, but four-strokes can't climb hills nearly as well (and neither can climb hills well at all). Balanced by that is the fact that you will burn one-third of the gasoline a car would over the same distance, and the fact that you won't ride as much as you drive.

* Animals are a major concern, too, where I live. Anything as small as a squirrel is big enough to upset a bike at speed, and I guarantee you will want to crap your pants when you see a bear, as I have.

* The largest danger, of course, comes from other drivers. Because of the high difference in speed on main roads, even the most inattentive drivers seem to treat me as a stationary object and pass me safely, but every day someone passes me close enough that I could reach out and bat their sideview mirror. Many drivers appear to do it intentionally. Some obviously don't understand that you are speed limited, and tailgate you in an attempt to make you go faster. The worst of all are frightened drivers who don't have the courage to pass--until someone starts tailgating them, and then their actions become totally unpredictable. Wrecking your moped by yourself is survivable; being run down or batted into the trees by an SUV likely is not. At best, you can count on a three-foot wide useable area on the far right side of any road. Stay there and you have the best chance of not mixing it up with the cars.

Mopeds are easily stolen, easily stripped down for parts, and difficult to recover. Many local governments attempt to make owners pay a registration fee for scooters, but without additions of your own they're impossible to track and cops won't waste a moment of their time looking for your stolen bike (even if they extracted a registration fee from you, as all cities try to do). They can, however, be easily fitted with GPS trackers which will allow you and your goons to recover your own vehicle from the 15 year old hood who likely pinched it.

But they're always fun, in some way, even when they're frightening and horribly uncomfortable. And if you have nothing and live where there is no public transportation, it's your first and best chance to climb out of your hole.

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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Also, give up bad habits. Smoker? Quit. Still drinking? Stop.
Edited on Sat Aug-28-10 02:07 PM by BlueIris
Pot? (Not medically prescribed, but recreational.) Knock that shit off. Other drugs? Rehab. (Also good for alcohol dependency, but this post is meant mostly for people who are dabbling in income-draining crap "just for fun.") Same for gambling, "toy problems," (including video games, music purchases and clothes horses) and loitering in clubs, bars, coffee houses, etc.

Giving up many bad habits circa 2001 was probably what kept me alive during Bush I & II.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
46. For a sobering 1st Person account of surviving an Economic Crash
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I've been looking for a job since Jan. Good tips here. I've been bummed
the past week or so; getting out and talking to people helps. Also knowing I'm not alone in this is comforting. I think the hardest part is knowing that I'm a hard worker and was laid off through no fault of my own, yet it feels some days that I'll never get a job (80 plus applications, 5 interviews and no offers. I've heard that's actually not bad, considering this economy). I know in my head this isn't the case... I will get back to work...and there are people in worse straits than me, but some days, the mind can go to some scary places.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. I wish I could help.
Edited on Sun Aug-29-10 01:38 PM by bvar22
This situation is NOT something you did.
It was DONE to YOU by the RICH Ownership Class (who want MORE), and their smooth talking politicians who sold the "Free Trade" and "Deregulation" scams to a gullible America.

We have no control over who actually "gets that job". THAT is up to The Fates.
The only thing we can control is putting in the applications, and then letting them go with love. THAT is all that is necessary for a successful day.

I'm old, and have lived through some personal dark times.
One thing I have learned is that when things seem the darkest, the best thing to do is go help somebody else, even if it is some seemingly trivial thing.
That ALWAYS works.
That may be the only REAL job we have on this planet.

Good Luck, my friend.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Thank you bvar22.
I have a hard time w/ anxiety and control issues. It's good to get a smack of perspective. I have a loving husband, family and friends, which I'm thankful for. I think the stress overwhelms me at times; some days, it's a struggle.

I do feel better when I try to help someone else, whether it's another job seeker who needs a "lift" or a friend who needs to talk as well. I need to also take care of me. I'm no good to anyone if I'm a basket case.
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
65. Hope you are able to find work soon...
..and said job exceeds your exportations
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Wow. That was...enlightening.
Thanks for the link.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. Excellent Post... seen that before. Best reality check ever.
Water, Food, Shelter, Security.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
50. Rental vacancies AND foreclosures are up?
I doubt this. People gotta live somewhere.

... although I suppose many are living with mom and dad.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
55. If the US economy collapses, $20K isn't going to last very long
I don't want to argue against savings, we should all be doing more of it.

If the economy collapses, become a school teacher. My parents survived the depression (or should I say the Great Depression since this feels worse than a recession to me) and the ones who fared the best were the school teachers in the family.

Evaluate what jobs you think would be entirely recession/depression proof.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
56. good topic for discussion.
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beachfnt Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
57. EXCELLENT ADVICE!
I agree with this piece wholeheartedly! Living like the little pig who built the brick house and prepares for the rainy day is a good way to budget ones finances.

For those that aren't in financial peril, refinancing debt is an excellent way to take advantage of the govt's pushing down interest rates. Or a way to recoup money not getting any ROI in the bank...

GREAT PIECE!!!
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-29-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
59. "...develop a marketable skill or cross train at work so you become indispensable"
Nobody is indispensable. I repeat, nobody is indispensable. Especially in today's economy, and with the strategies of businesses today. Today's marketable skill could easily not be the least bit marketable tomorrow, as it is shipped overseas, replaced by technology, or just not used anymore. The article had some good things to say, but I take issue with that piece of advice.
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