NPR: Americans Rethinking Home Ownership

[marmar]

For more than 20 years, the mantra in Washington has been "more, not less" when it comes to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the expansion of homeownership.

"One of the great successes of the United States in this century has been the partnership forged by the National Government and private sector to steadily expand the dream of home ownership to all Americans," Bill Clinton once said.

George W. Bush also had faith. "I do believe in the American Dream," he said. "And I believe that those of us who have been given positions of responsibility must do everything we can to spotlight the dream and make sure the dream shines in all neighborhoods all throughout our country. Owning a home is a part of that dream."

But even as politicians of both parties have praised the idea of home ownership for decades, many Americans are starting to question if homeownership is the only path to the American Dream. And with the financial crisis and near-collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, policy leaders are also rethinking the government's role in all of it. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129348144&f=1001

[RandomThoughts]

1. They actually believe they were given power by God not free will actions.

And if I am correct on that, claiming their power is by divine right, is not only obnoxious, but I would guess would be a bit offensive.

Although maybe not, but sure seems if they did not get it from God, and then made that claim, that is written about somewhere. So hopefully for there sake they are correct, but doesn't sound that way.

[Rage for Order]

11. Huh?

Did you reply in the correct thread? I'm trying to see the connection between your post and the subject of people re-thinking home ownership. Am I missing something?

[RandomThoughts]

15. yea.

"And I believe that those of us who have been given positions of responsibility must do everything we can to spotlight the dream and make sure the dream shines in all neighborhoods all throughout our country. Owning a home is a part of that dream."

First defines that responsibility was given to them. I ask what gave that to them in there mind? Fits in with some 'superiority' or 'chosen' doctrine. Also fits with royal bloodlines doctrine.

He uses the idea of light and shining a light, that is biblical, and I agree with it, however ask what dark corners he exposed. Really is perspective of what is correct at that point, although light shines in the dark, so there should be something unseen, hiding, or secret shown by him, and turned to light.

Then the comment says it is about ownership of a home, although most likely coded also as houses in heaven, or a house as a family blood line by offspring, a limited view in my perspective, but a common perspective.



His entire comment is spiritual. The question is what is the claim, and what is the intent. Houses for everyone, or only for who he thinks is deserving. Some think houses are meant to be a reward for people as decided by people, the idea of people thinking they can decide who should live and die. And maybe he meant houses as in families and children in the concept that houses are ancestral lines, the idea that having a house is having children, grandchildren etc...


I actually think he has some good points, but disagree with how his actions had an effect, or how his actions were shown to effect things.



So my comment was on the topic of how some think they were given responsibility and what they followed to get that responsibility, and how and if they used shining a light, if they did, then they should be exposing dark places, are they doing that? I also think part of shining a light is when you find light in what seemed to only be dark. Since light removes dark.

The quote uses the text, but seems like it does not have the meaning in action. Although maybe he did everything best he could, and even correct, and filters kept it from being heard. Or maybe his view of what those things mean is different.

[Warpy]

2. I'm actually rethinking it

and will think it over even harder once my old cat finally leaves me.

Oh, I love the funky area and the convenience of being within a couple of miles of everything I need except my transplant surgeon. However, at this point in my life, I'd be just as happy with a condo or even a trailer with little maintenance and no yard work. And that's if I can manage to stay in this country. Medical bills are killing me and there is no hope for insurance that will pay them for years since HCR didn't force insurance companies to pay for pre existing conditions, only to write overpriced policies for people who have them.

[david13]

8. Do it. Sell that house, and get a condo. If you do get a trailer,

remember the most important type of park. Own your own park, where you own your space, just like a condo or home ownership park. You buy your trailer, and the right to your space, so you own both, the trailer and the space.
That way you don't face constant rent increases on your space.
But oh so many people do this, sell the house, and move into senior housing or condos. Just remember ownership is better there also.
And before you do it get legal estate planning advice, and tax advice on it.
dc

[droidamus2]

3. The problem I see

Part of the American dream may be owning a home but the problem I see is that most people don't actually 'own' their homes. Most of us just have a mortgage which in the end is just paying a bank rent instead of a landlord. If I owned my home outright (not likely in my lifetime unless I hit it big in the lottery) it would be a dream. No other person taking a large part of my income every month just so I and my significant other can have a roof over our heads would be great. Most of the time when I hear politicians talk about home ownership as the American dream these days I read it as 'it is the dream of the people with money to keep the people with substantially less money in debt and under control by getting them to chase the dream of home ownership'.

[david13]

9. No no no dude. You are not paying rent to the lender. You are

paying principal and interest. And it never goes up. And ... one day ... it is paid in full. A sweet fun day for many people. Burn that mortgage or trust deed. (After recording, mind you.)
Rent ... dude ... rent goes ... up, and up and up. And never ends.
dc

[Warpy]

12. The point is to buy in your 30s so that the sucker's paid off

by the time you're eligible for Social Security. At that point, you have no mortgage, only property taxes and homeowner insurance plus all the usual maintenance. Unfortunately, people who move frequently to further their careers or used their houses like ATMs and refinanced kept resetting that 30 year payoff period, and those are the people who will never own. Good luck to them keeping the places after they can no longer work.

[droidamus2]

13. Sort of the point

Yes, if your life works out and you can get into a house in your late 20's or 30's then conceivably you can pay off a house by the time you retire. As long as you don't have too many kids, medical problems, job loses or buy more house than you can eventually handle. For us that couldn't get in until our 40's, saw our wages stagnate and our jobs disappear the chance of actually paying off our house is nil. Therefore for all intents and purposes our mortgage payments go on forever. You are correct that it doesn't go up unless you get behind and they start throwing penalties at you. I guess what I am getting at is of all the people that try to 'buy the American dream house' how many actually are able to eventually pay it off and for how many does it just become the equivalent of rent controlled housing (at least you do have more control over the actually building than renting an apartment or somebody's house).

[Warpy]

14. Yes, the dream is a fantasy now

thanks to the past 40 years of unbroken conservative rule by both parties that saw the destruction of the social contract along with wage suppression and wealth concentration at the top. Even the 30 year mortgage has become an unreasonable burden since house prices still haven't fallen anywhere near an affordable level in most areas.

Fortunately or unfortunately, it's all completely unsustainable and is collapsing all around us. Congress, always slow on the uptake, will have to be forced to act unless they want mobs at the gates of their own walled communities.

Until that happens, I can see home "ownership" only as a hedge against rising rents in markets where rents are rising as housing prices have fallen. As any sort of investment, even a long term gamble that one will be able to be mortgage free by 65, it's a tremendous long shot.

[Dawson Leery]

4. We need to look at the size and cost of the homes built

this past decade. The current course is unsustainable. Since the end of the war (WWII) the average rate of home owner ship rose from 40% to 62%. That number stayed since. This past decade, that number again rose from 63% to 73.5%. Not everyone can own a home (as the subprime disaster has shown) nor does everyone want a home. Not everyone can afford a home, more so a large home 3500 sqft +.

[madrchsod]

7. around here investers are buying up crap houses and rebuilding.

most of these are under $60 or 70 tops. they are putting around 10 thousand and can rent them out for 5-7 hundred. if they put the renters on a rent to buy they`ll unload these rebuilds in 5 or so years.

what`s not moving around here is anything above $175,000 and yes in this market it`s around 3000-4000 sq ft depending on the lot size.

in my neighborhood the is around $100-130 thousand for 1200-2000sq ft and nothing has stayed on the market over two or so months.

[madrchsod]

5. i could`t rent the house i`m buying

my house payment is 205 plus another 300 for taxes and insurance. my adjustable went down to 3%. in this market i could rent out my house for 700 a month.

home ownership is an american dream. we have to remember we have been living through almost 30yrs of a nightmare.

[david13]

10. Right. And probably you will be ... paid off!!! before long. Ah. dc

[sendero]

6. I still believe in owning a home...

.. and I think most people still do also.

However, buying near the top of an obvious bubble is probably not a good idea.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Home ownership is not for everyone

Rented for a long time before we bought our first house. Both renting and owning have their advantages and disadvantages.

It was kind of nice to be able to call the landlord when something broke. But I value my privacy.

Don

[david13]

26. Oh so true. You must weigh and balance, and figure your situation.

Then decide. If you are on a temporary job somewhere, and you know it will end soon, just rent. But even then, if the market is rising, you may be able to buy, then sell at a profit, and have lived there free. But figure the costs of sale also.
I know some people who were on a 'temporary' job for 7 years. The market went up and they would have lived free if they had bought. But they didn't know that 'temporary' would turn into 7 years.
dc

[Marr]

17. People are only "rethinking" it because the corporate crooks have rigged and wrecked the economy

so badly, many people can't get a home loan or even if they can, could never hope to pay it off.

Home ownership is the closest thing to financial security that most Americans can ever hope to attain, so I'm not surprised to see it being talked down and shrugged off.

[kiva]

18. I'm waiting to hear back on an offer for a house.

I'm 55, always rented, but there are some good reasons for me to buy now:

1. I have pets, and trying to find a place that allows pets can be difficult - with my own house, not a problem.
2. The house payment is $350 per month less than what I'm paying in rent, and the house I want to buy is much nicer.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Have you checked to see how the property taxes have been tracking on the home?

That is whats going to eventually get me if I live that long? When I moved in 20 years ago they were $1200 per year. They are now close to $5000 per year. Its getting tougher every year.

Don

[kiva]

21. Nevada property taxes are low,

and have been so for some time. However the state has such massive economic problems now that it's hard to say what will happen in the future - so, it's a traditional Las Vegas gamble.

[geek tragedy]

19. Home ownership is still the ideal.

The problem isn't home ownership, it's that people were being misled about the commitment necessary to own a house.

Rent is exploitation--100% of your rent payment makes someone else richer, and it's purely an expense. You get nothing to show for it except another rent payment due the next month. And you're essentially living in someone else's home that they're agreeing to let you stay in.

As someone else said, mortgage payments are predictable and stable. Rents not so much.

To put it another way:

When you rent, your rent expense increases with inflation.

When you buy, your personal net worth goes up with inflation--your mortgage amount goes down, and the value of your house goes up (not at the absurd rate of the 2000's, but even 1% per year makes a huge difference over time.

[tallahasseedem]

22. Great post...

I totally agree. I love being a homeowner for all the reasons you listed and more.

[johnlucas]

23. Until you pay for your house outright you do not really own it

That's right I said it.
Mortgage is glorified rent. You only pay it to the banklord instead of a landlord.

If you're making payments on something it's not really yours. You're leasing or renting-to-own like Rent-A-Center or something.
I'm a renter because I recognize the futility in trying to forecast a 30 year plan on where you're going to live.
You don't know how your life will change in 10 years time much less 30.
Your views on life may dramatically shift & you will change yourself.
If not that, then circumstances about your income & health can change in that amount of time.
All this makes a 30 year forecast a gamble at best.

If you pay a mortgage, you don't own your home, simple as that.

But get this. Even if you have your home paid in full, the land you put it on ain't necessarily yours either.
The city may scale back your front yard to put in a new road or the state may declare "Eminent Domain" and push you off that land altogether. And if that happens how do you move a big ol' house that IS yours?

By the way, I hate the catchphrase "American Dream". It's propaganda used to sucker Americans into all sorts of purchasing crazes much like DeBeers used diamonds to signify love. The sooner people eliminate that catchphrase from their vocabulary, the easier it will be not to be hooked into the falseness of "home ownership". Most people can't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars outright for anything. Not even in 4 yearly installments.
John Lucas

P.S.: I'm not even gonna get into neighborhood "community standards" crap where you have limits on how you customize your house. Can painting your house all black, polkadot, or pink reduce your neighbor's property value & can they prevent you from painting in return?

[david13]

25. Your splitting hairs; you're all hung up on technicalities. You need

to do what most americans do, take a risk, and bet on the future, make a commitment, and ...
buy a house.
You have a patent grasp of the pathetically obvious. Until you go into the supermarket and buy your food, you don't own it.
So what.
Until you go in and buy your car, you don't own it.
So what.
When you weigh and balance, and when you realize that which most people have realized, that, probably in 30 years, you will still be sitting right in the same old place, at the same old job, in the same old town, only your rent will now be what? Astronomical, that's what.
But your house will be .. paid for. Glorious moment. If, instead of sneering at that 'merican dream' you made it your dream (or just conquered your fear) and just used common sense and bought your house, then, it will be paid for.
dc

[johnlucas]

28. If I want to take a risk I'll play Blackjack in Las Vegas

At least that way, there'll be better return on my expenditure.
About my car...I don't believe in making payments for your vehicle either.
I own my hoopty & proud of it. $1100 for a 20 year old Oldsmobile. No payments to nobody but the convenience store gas tank.
I'd rather deal with the headaches of repairs from an owned car then headaches from both car notes AND repairs on a new car.
(Honestly should my situation change where I didn't need to depend on a car, I'll exempt myself from both)

Cars are money pits by design. You either pay up front or at the end. And usually all throughout front middle & end.

You gotta think about the generation you live in.
I'm 34. There ain't gonna be no sitting in the same old place, at the same old job, at the same old town in 30 years.
The employers are looking more & more for slave labor & outsourcing will continue.
There are no pensions & there is no job security.
When you enter your 40s, they are looking to replace you.
And Social Security will most likely not exist by the time I'm 67.

I need to stay flexible & control my upfront costs as much as possible. Pay as little as I can upfront to save & squirrel away in the rear.
My rent is low even for the region I live in. Any excess money I come across goes into paying off debts & storing into savings.
I got rid of that ignorant student loan debt I got myself into (what an idiot I was!) & am now trying to pay down my credit card which I have used as an emergency fund.

Once I get that monkey/gorilla off my back, I can save up every windfall for my future days...whereever I may be by that time.
I know damn well that buying a house ain't gonna make that no easier. I don't need that much space anyway & I hate fixing stuff.
Weeds don't bother me (they're the tough flowers) & yard work is not appealing to me in the slightest. Let somebody else deal with that hassle.

I already know who REALLY owns things in this country, in this world. The delusion of home ownership makes people forget about eminent domain & further about how NO MAN really owns ANYTHING on this Earth if you smell what I'm cookin'.
All I'm doing is paying for the right to stay on a monthly basis. You pay taxes to your government on a yearly basis for the same reason.
You're always paying somebody...and that's even if you DO fully pay off your house.

So the question is how much do I wanna pay? I choose little.
And yet I have a bigger back & front yard than most people in this country despite being able to afford this place on a McDonald's or Wal-Mart wage.
"Homeowners" can't even customize their house to their liking anyhow not with that community standards/homeowners association jazz.
Ain't much to get from homeownership unless you're part of the "ownership society".

I equate this "homeowning" craze to that other false illusion called "the middle class".
John Lucas

[david13]

29. Compare the odds. Blackjack in Las Vegas, vs. the average price

of real estate over the last 30 years in your area.
Remember, 30 years from now your rent will not be the same.
And, generally the homeowner has more freedom than the renter. The renter has to get permission from the landlord to do anything.
And both still have to follow the city or county codes. So a renter actually has less freedom.
If you want to gamble, the best odds you will get is ... real estate. A house. And, you get to live in your gamble. No one else does, unless you get a roommate or two, ... then, they buy the house for you, as you charge them rent.
dc

[johnlucas]

30. Well depends on where you rent

Some places have less restrictions than others.
People can smoke in my house technically (I don't smoke & don't really allow smoking in my house).
I am allowed to decorate outside my house if I choose (I don't but I could).
I can grow a garden if I chose to.
I'm allowed to grill on a barbecue in the backyard.
I can use the landlord's storage area for some of my things if I want to.
Just some perks on where I live. Not too much different than a homeowner.

I've lived in this place 2 months shy of 13 years & have only seen a $25 increase in rent in that time which began about 4 years ago.
STILL cheap enough to afford on a McDonald's/Wal-Mart wage.

Real estate is fake estate for me. I put my extra money aside for money plans/schemes. Using a house for this is too much hassle.
Charging rent? Renters can just walk out on you & you gotta deal with repairs for stuff they broke if dealing with an irresponsible tenant.
Instead of babysitting a house, I'll just bet on Blackjack or companies (AKA stock market). That or the Lotto.
Anything with more reliable returns even if they're small. A lot of reliable small returns is a lot of money.

Who wants to live in their gamble? A house is a place to rest your head not a place to exploit for financial gain.
More power to the ones who have figured how to get ahead of that game but I like less hassling ways of getting over.
Let me get on Wheel of Fortune one time & watch me clean up. I'd rather try those long odds than that of home ownership.
John Lucas

[Edweird]

24. Austerity propaganda.

[HughBeaumont]

27. Maybe it's buying too much goddamned house that's the problem.

A family of three doesn't need a two story foyer, a dining room, 4000+ Sq Feet or a mudroom.

"Ew, who wants to live in a cramped old dump? You mean I have to do home repair? I want everything right there and now!"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand surprise; in five years, they're broke and wondering why. It's because they bought too much house for their income and those things wouldn't be good value for the money even if both borrowers made $150,000 a year combined.

At least I have the potential to pay my home loan off someday. There's nothing wrong with getting a 55 year old starter home. You learn more about how a home works with an older house than you will with a newer one, trust me on this.

[NNN0LHI]

31. 20 years ago when I bought this house we didn't have unscrupulous lenders

If we did I would have likely ended up with a two story foyer, a dining room, 4000+ Sq Feet or a mudroom myself.

Instead the lender would only give us a mortgage on something we could afford. A 1500 square foot ranch with no foyer.

Why is that? Because I was young and didn't know any better. I was always taught that bankers were our friends. I would have fell for that scam real easy.

Don