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A few suggestions for improving education in this country.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 02:56 PM
Original message
A few suggestions for improving education in this country.
Without a doubt education is suffering in this country. Various people, pundits and politicians have come up with fixes for the system, some of which are adapted, some of which aren't, but none of them seem to make much if any difference.

I've posted these suggestions before, but never in one place in a concise format, hence this post. Here are my suggestions, and my reasoning behind them.

One:

Fully fund each and every school. There is simply no excuse for kids to be crowded into trailers that are cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and lack even the most basic of amenities. There is no excuse for school buildings to leak, for playground equipment to be broken, or for science labs to not have the proper equipment. There is no excuse for students to be using decade old textbooks, maps that are obsolete, or computers that are ten years old. Nor should any teacher have to pay for school supplies out of their own pocket. The quality of school facilities in this country has gone to the dogs, and while Obama and the Democrats cut out sixteen billion dollars from the stimulus that was marked for school construction and repair in favor of even more tax cuts, our schools and students continue to suffer. We desperately need to rebuild our school infrastructure, because our students struggle to learn, our teachers to teach when they are cold or lacking in necessary supplies.

Two:

Put our money where our mouth is. In the US we like to put out the rhetoric that education is one of the most important fields of endeavor. Yet we simply don't match actions with deeds. Our teachers are grossly underpaid, especially for the hours that they work (and if you honestly think that teachers only work nine months a year, your ignorance is showing). What I propose is a pay schedule that works in the top rated countries in the world when it comes to education, namely the same pay schedule as doctors. This means a six figure salary and good benefits.

What would this do? First of all, it would attract the best and brightest to the education field. I have seen untold numbers of college students who would make great teachers, who would love to teach, but when they're staring down the barrel of a thirty thousand student loan tab, and see that starting teacher's pay is sometimes less than what they owe, most flee to another higher paying profession. The same goes with experienced teachers. They want to buy a home, start a family, have a little fun in life, yet they realize that this simply isn't possible on a teacher's salary.

This pay inadequacy goes back to the early days of education, when women were the primary teachers in this country. Unable to get work in fields other than nursing or teaching, a lot of bright, intelligent women went into the teaching profession. Yes, the pay was lousy, but it's not like they could do something else, no other profession was truly open to the vast majority of women. Thus, we were able to have high quality teachers at bargain basement prices due to societal inequities. That situation changed in the seventies as women entered more and more professions, that paid better than teaching. Thus, fewer and fewer high caliber people went into teaching, and the profession and our students suffered.

If you want high quality teachers, you have to pay them. Japan and Finland realized this, and they are now the top two leading countries in quality education. We're at twenty four and dropping.

Third:

This is perhaps the hardest, but given time it can be done. Namely, restore respect for education in our society, and parental responsibility for their children. Kids in this country have become disposable. I can't tell you the number of kids I've seen who come from homes where education isn't valued and/or parents simply don't give a damn about their kids. These kids show up at school ill prepared, resenting education, knowing that they will suffer no real consequences because their parents don't give a damn what they do. At the opposite end are helicopter parents, those who think that they know best what their kid can do, how that child can learn, and are all over the teacher if there is any deviation from what they think is best(no matter that these parents many times have no formal educational training or experience, they just know what is best for little Johnny).

We need to start giving education, and teachers, the respect that they deserve. Again, let me turn back to Japan and Finland, the top two education countries in the world. These people truly respect education, and are willing to do whatever the teacher says that needs to be done. This doesn't mean that parental voice aren't heard or taken into consideration, but rather they are but one item factored into the student's educational plan.

Which leads me to my final point, namely we need to put education back into the hands of the professionals, the teachers and educators. It is a crime that we have a man such as Duncan, with no formal education in the field, making sweeping changes to our system. It is a shame that we have school boards packed with RW fundies with an agenda, politicizing local, state, even national educational policy. It is a crime that a school board has to receive a super majority of voter approval to take out a bond for school repair or teachers' raises. We don't tell firefighters how to do their job, we don't get a vote on how much a cop gets paid, we wouldn't dare tell a surgeon at a public hospital how to do a quad bypass, but somehow, someway, everybody thinks that they are qualified to make long ranging decisions concerning education. People think that they are qualified to run for school board, even though they may have only graduated from high school. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound elitist, but the fact of the matter is that education matters need to be left in the hands of educators. Yes, people should feel free to criticize if they want, but it is an abomination to have some dumb RW fundie on the school board pushing their creationist bullshit down the throats of all of us, including our kids.

Yes, these suggestions all take money, lots of it. But frankly, things like the defense budget needs to be cut. It is a sad statement on our society when we have unlimited funds for war, but skimp and scrape the bottom of the barrel when it comes to our children's future.

But these suggestions work, you have to look no further than Japan or Finland to see them working. Isn't it time we implemented them here?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. k & r
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm happy to see this...
And ultimately, these are great suggestions.

With that said, there is no money until the current financial situation is resolved. Our children can't wait that long for comprehensive reform of the education system.

What can be done in the meanwhile, working with what we have?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's not that there is no money
It's that it's all gone to the banksters and the military-industrial complex.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. We need to track it down...
No question. There's a big ol' bag of it out in the ether somewhere... and in several people's off-shore account, no doubt.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. Like the $2.3 TRILLION that the Pentagon somehow can't seem to find
I suspect that either black ops are far more extensive than even our most paranoid fear OR several Swiss banks are sinking a little deeper into the earth from the weight of all that cash.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Yep!
That money just up and disapeared... all of it... where did it go? Disgusting, huh?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. And nobody in the government seems to be in a hurry to find it
which is odd.

If I were suddenly missing a proportionately large amount of money, I'd want to know what happened to it--NOW.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Well, there is that big fat set of wars we are fighting,
And while I realize that we're pulling out of Iraq, unless you count the fifty thousand troops we're leaving behind, we're scheduled to be in Afghanistan for years to come.

The total defense budget is currently over one trillion dollars. My suggestion is to half that, and devote the money to education. That would do a world of good right there.

As far as giving education the respect that it deserves, well that can start immediately, and at the top. Have Obama start praising public school teachers rather than continuing to pummel them and praise mass firings. Make the public aware of just how valuable education is. Really now, if this country can carry out a successful campaign that leaves two thirds of the public believing that Iraq had something to do with 911, we can pull off a successful campaign to start restoring the good name of teachers and education.

We can also start imposing means testing for politicians who are connected to education. The Sec. of Ed needs to have at least a Masters Degree in Education. School boards should have some sort of rubric to screen out the RW nuts, much like we do with police boards, doctor's boards, etc.

What we lack, for various reasons, is the political will to follow through on these suggestions. That's an entirely different matter that I don't know the answer to.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I like all those suggestions as well...
But that still doesn't tell me how we can improve things with what we have.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Sorry, but I though that I made it clear
Cut defense spending and reassign it to education. Have this administration start publicly building up public education instead of tearing it down. Change laws in order to insure that you have more qualified individuals making our education policy and decisions.

I know, cutting defense spending is a tall order, but that's what's got to be done.

We have the money and resources to pursue this strategy, right now. It is simply a matter of reassigning our priorities in this country, investing in education and people rather than in war and death. You can't have both.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sorry, I thought I made it clear...
We don't have time to wait for that fantasy to happen. It might not happen for years to come. What can we do in the meantime?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Then we have to start making it happen now
We simply can't afford to wait, it's that simple. We are accomplishing nothing with these so called "solutions" that are being foisted upon us. In fact, we are suffering great harm from them.

We have these resources in place, it is now simply a matter of exerting the political will to implement them.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Pie in the sky... that's not helping anyone...
You are basically saying that without the funding, our children are doomed. I call fertilizer on that defeatist attitude. We do NOT have these resources! Where are they? Where's the money? You want to fight the military industrial complex? You want to tug-o-war with that money and tell our kids to just suck it up until it comes because that's the best we can do for them.

We are fucking doomed if that's the case. Again, I call fertilizer on that heap.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Well, we are doomed unless we start fully funding schools
Look, we have tried the band aid approach for decades now, and what's happened? Our schools have continued to decline. Every single education expert in this country have repeated the funding mantra for just as long, if not longer and have been ignored. If you keep trying the same tactic, ie the band aid approach, over and over again, expecting different results each time, well some would say that is insanity.

The fact of the matter is that our military spending is what is killing us period, not just in education. We are choosing the Soviet style of country collapse, devoting more and more resources to the military and letting everything else go to hell. That's not a recipe for a healthy society, much less a flourishing education system.

And talk about defeatist attitude, why not take on the MIC? Like I said earlier, this doesn't just effect education, but our whole society. Supposedly we the people are in charge of our government, why not exercise that power? Giving up and saying that we can't take on the MIC is, in itself, is a defeatist attitude and puts us all on the road for collapse.

So you have a choice, do what is right for this country, for education, and pare back our military spending by a significant amount, or throw up your hands in helplessness and defeat and surely suffer the consequences of having such a defeatist attitude. Me, I say fight, you, well you can stay on the sidelines if you want.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. So we should just give up until there is money?
Ridiculous... defeatist, and disgusting. We can't have the perfect, so we turn up our collective noses and issue a loud 'harrumph' because nothing else can be done. That shows an incredible lack of creativity.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. So we shouldn't strive to bring about these things?
The fact of the matter is that our time to change things is really quite short, we no longer have the luxury of time, time to progress in increments, in fits and starts. Our schools are failing for lack of funds, and the current going plan among the powers that be is to pick the carcass dry and kick public education dry. We've already lost one generation of students, how many more are you willing to sacrifice to political expendiency?

Far from being defeatist, I actually believe that the people of this country can bring about radical change. It has happened before in my lifetime, it can happen again.

You say I am defeatist, I say you are limited in your expectations. You have settled, accepted the mantra that this is not really a country of the people.

I don't expect the perfect, despite how often people use that epithet to dismiss certain arguments. The vast majority recognize that there is no perfect in this world. However most people also realize that you cannot come within even the same ballpark of perfect unless you try, put forth the effort to achieve perfect.

Argue your limitations long enough, and sure enough, they become all yours.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Allow our children to suffer
What we will do in the mean time is let our children suffer. I'm curious how you think we aren't "doing all we can with what we have". The point is that it's not nearly enough. We've been getting by through over use of assets that were paid for long ago. We short maintainace, and staffing, and supplies, just to keep the doors open. We've been doing that for 40+ years. At some point you've run that plan dry.

At some point it is basically a choice between what we've been doing, and what we must do.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I believe there are teachers out there...
Who can teach a lot without all of that. I've seen the outcome, I've heard the stories... I'm sorry, but your answer is just not acceptable. I've heard about teachers drawing in the sand and actually teaching when there were no books, no supplies, no money whatsoever. I just cannot believe that we are that short sighted that we can't make real education happen.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Everywhere?
Anecdotal evidence that teachers can teach willing students with supportive parents in communities that value education doesn't really address much of the larger issues that the person outlined. In all those movies you're watching, like Stand and Deliver, there's several kids in the classroom that don't make it through that year, or many years. Those are where the failures start.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. So, just give up because you can't make every student a winner?
The defeatist attitude in this thread is disgusting... really.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
57. Status quo
There's a big difference between maintaining the status quo and "giving up". Many children are learning, but fewer and fewer are attaining the goals we set for them. This is happening because we aren't putting the resources in place to address the challenges they face. You can keep on the current arch by "doing what we can do with what we have" and you'll keep getting what you're getting. Or we can face the reality that we are providing fewer and fewer of the resources the students need to learn the information we need them to learn.

You apparently think doing what we've been doing is going to some how change the result.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. And meanwhile, there are peer reviewed studies
Conducted by education experts showing that for a child to properly learn they need to have decent facilities, adequate supplies and a motivated teacher. I'll take the experts' word over anecdotal evidence any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. I taught several generations of EMTs
with a broken down board, and chalk I bought myself. We used and reused and reused equipment to teach them how to spike a bag. Yep, those bags that they did not throw away at the ER, we used and reused and reused.

They were fine EMTs... but if we had the resources we would not have had to do some things that a few here might find questionable. Such as... teach them how to start an IV on each other, because I did not have a training arm. Or the ever so favorite and gagglingly fabulous, insertion of a nasogastric tube. When they had to do that to dad, well been there, done that, in training. Again they were fine EMTs, but there is a limit on how far you can do when you don't have the resources.

And there were a few things we could not teach without a training manikin, see CPR. I am sure in a class room teaching jenny and bob how to read there is the equivalent of the CPR manikin. By the way back then I had somebody donate a resuci baby to us... and I manage to scrounge a ten year old adult resusci ani... if I had to buy both of them new it would have been close to 4K we did not have.

I will ask this. Have you ever been in education at any level? I am sure there are equivalents to what I have described. And yes I used sand to teach as well, effectively... but again there is a limit. Now the way it looks to me, some people will be fine if we just go back to teaching kids how to do math at the beach with shells... (Yes we did that, to help with a few kids at risk)... or for that matter, teach them their letters on chalk boards that you can use and reuse. Granted, they could be effective... I mean they once were considered state of the art. Hell, for all I care, perhaps go down and find some of the real old readers... (wait, a few public schools are doing that anyway).

Is that what Americans want? Suffice it to say that we are near the bottom or the middle best case, on OECD education indicators, yes I have them handy if you want me to cite them... there is quite a bit to go... down that is. Perhaps then people will buy a clue. But one of the problems is the absolute lack of respect for anybody in this country with book learnin' just sayin'.



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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
55. I have as well
But that level of teaching is fairly low. Its basic skills. basic math and symbols. Not in depth history, modern necessary life skills(sand pit to teach computer use?). I cannot even imagine trying to do any in depth science with only sand.

Some things require resources. If you want to buy a house, you have to pay the mortgage. You may be able to bluff the bank for a while, but sooner or later they will foreclose if you don't pay. If your mortgage is more than your income, and your savings are running out, you will either need more money or less mortgage. You can be as creative as you want with 1200 bucks a month income, but if your mortgage is 1400 a month, sooner or later it will come crashing down. This just happened to a family member. They managed to make it work for 10 years. But in the end, it couldn't continue any more.

That's where we are. If we don't put the resources into it, we will not get the results out of it. That simple. Im sure kids will still learn their times tables and their alphabet. But past that, it will be less and less for most.
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happy_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. we can look at the money that is already going to schools and use it wisely
No administrator ever cut their own job but someone has to do it.

Just like every other organization, all of the money is controlled at the top by the higher ups who do less than 1% of the actual work.

I have seen enough waste in schools, and other governmental organizations to know there is an agenda to how the money is distributed.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. I like those suggestions.
Send them to Obama. I'd love to see his response.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. They call them 'public' schools....
..for a reason. The ones we have are the ones we -- present company excluded, of course -- want and are willing to pay for. If they are mediocre, it's because as a nation we've decided that's all we want.

To change public schools, you have to change the public. Or not have public-in-the-sense-of-we-vote public schools. The Finnish and Japanese systems are both highly centralized.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Well then, I guess we can continue down the path we're on,
Applying band aids and playing political football with education. But the result is going to be increasingly worse. We've already lost one generation to the madness of NCLB. How many more can we lose before this country collapses?
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. As many as the country at large....
...will tolerate. That's the problem with democracy.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. The japanese system (which i've worked in) is no model. It manages to
educate -- with classes of 50, in which kids are sleeping behind their books while teachers drone on & on using lecture method -- for reasons other than itself.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. That's not what I've heard, read or seen.
Perhaps it was only in your particular locale:shrug: Others who have been to Japan have confirmed the points I made as well.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. The Japanese culture is very different from ours
For one thing, they value their children and place their needs at a higher level than we do. So they honor their teachers, respect their work and take care of their schools. Parents are more likely to support schools and teachers. So they have far fewer discipline problems in Japan.

That being said, the Japanese also put a lot more pressure on children to excel. The rate of mental illness in children is a growing concern in Japan. There are also more suicides.

They also have the kids take care of the schools. The classes rotate the custodial and cafeteria duties. I don't like that idea at all.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. So we take the good, leave the bad, and adapt it for our own use.
Paying teachers a six figure salary would lure in some incredibly bright, hard working teachers into the profession. Re-instilling respect for this education in this country would also help a great deal.

No, I don't want to see the kids cleaning the halls, but I would love to see parents who gave a damn about their kid's education.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. or maybe it was your friends. i worked in osaka at a public high school as a regular employee,
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 04:50 PM by Hannah Bell
not a jet program gaijin temp. married to a japanese man, 3 years in the system.

if your friends worked in elementary schools, they're a different story. There's also variation by the tier of school.

japanese education is based on 1) the vestiges of respect for teaching & education, analogous (in the 80s) to the us in the 50s, and 2) the extensive system of privately-paid preparation -- jukus and the like.

in many respects, the japanese system resembles the ed deform currently underway in the us -- high-stakes testing, national standards, tiered schools, poor performers being steered into trade schools & few second chances.

interestingly, some japanese decry the quality of their schools & media reports tout how much can be learned from the more "creative" american system.



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. And the unreccers are at it
they don't like the message
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. it's not about improving education. it's about grinding workers & enriching capital. it's *always*
about grinding workers & enriching capital.

pity the poor saps who think otherwise. the working class should learn that lesson from the cradle so they won't waste their lives.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Oh, I know that, you know that,
But I decided that I needed to point out these age old truths about education. Hell, my dad was pointing out these truths forty years ago when he was teaching, and that was back when education was still in relatively decent shape.

But yeah, our education system is simply going to be another victim of avarice and greed.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. and the fact that your dad knew it 40 years ago (as did many -- any man on the street could think of
better ways to improve education than the ed deformers) -- demonstrates explicitly that the deformers don't give a damn about education.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. "the working class should learn that lesson from the cradle so they won't waste their lives."
Wow... that's a defeatist attitude... with that perspective, there's no hope in coming up with better ways to teach our children. Let's just all give up.

My great-grandmother had a far better education as a 6th grade graduate than most of the high school seniors I know have today. Why do you suppose that is? There was a hell of a lot less money available for education at that time too. Why do you think that is?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. First, you had parents and a public that supported education
Second, you had excellent teachers, mostly women, because they had no other profession to go into. They were a captive work force that could be ill paid and still deliver great results. That isn't the case today. Third, you actually had qualified people making education policy decisions.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Well, not really...
Granny's parents needed her help on the farm and discouraged her from going to school... that's why she only made it to the 6th grade.

The person that taught all 30 kids in the one room schoolhouse also served as the village vicar and wasn't paid anything extra for his teaching. The only qualified person in this scenario is my great-great-grandfather; he built the schoolhouse.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. What a fascinating story!
Where was this?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. Iowa... turn of the last century...




I'm quite fortunate to have spent a great deal of time with my great-grandmother and her brother and sisters. And my family is very big on documentation of the family history, which goes back 13 generations in this country.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Iowa has enjoyed a very good reputation for public education,
so I am doubly impressed. I learned a lot about writing in Iowa City...

My family has many generations here too, but it's not as well documented as yours--although there is some. My oldest brother probably knows the most about it.

Those are gorgeous pics! I love the one with the horse included! You are indeed lucky to have spent time with you great-grandmother et al. Most of us don't get that chance. Again, beautiful pics. If you have more, please post them.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Thanks...
I love the horse picture. A young man today would be posing with his car:)



Uncle Joe... note the Civil War pin... and the earring! He looks like a hoot!



Ha! My cousin Stan... sitting behind Donovan and Janis, looking to his right. Not old... but historic! :rofl:



Great Granny with 13 of her 15...



Me and one of my sisters partying at Ozzy's house... Not old, but damn! Historic!

History is in the eye of the beholder apparently... I went looking for old family pics and found these... hope they lighten the mood around here:)
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
56. What do you base that on
The assertion that your granny was better educated than most current HS seniors, that is? I am assuming by the time you knew her, she had had a decent portion of a life time to learn, past what was taught her in school. But what do you use to quantify education in this comparison? My understanding is that IQ is quantifiably higher than it was in years gone by, and that students today learn far more, seeing as there are far more fact and information to be learned to reach a baseline.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Those are all excellent ideas. Funding them is going to be a
tough problem, though. That's a real pity.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. History is full of education without funds...
I think we need to get back to basics and see how we can work around this. This kind of funding isn't going to happen anytime soon... if ever. We don't have the luxury of time.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
59. You're right, of course.
For many voters, who are the ones who must approve school expenditures in most places, the current attitude is show us some results and we'll show you the money. Now, I think that's a mistaken attitude, but it is the current attitude for many.

Many tax-raising school measures are failing at the polls. I've never not voted for one, but many do vote against them.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Can I suggest one more?
Any time teachers are judged by the results of a test, the students should be held accountable for their scores as well.

I know back in my day there were kids that didn't give a damn about their standardized tests because they weren't going to be part of their 'permanent record'. If kids know these results won't be relevant to them in terms of getting promoted or getting admitted to college, and they have a gripe against their teacher, what better way to punish the teacher than by deliberately sabotaging their test results.
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NHLrocks Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. have kids stop fucking off is school and guaduate.
Responsible parents help as well.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. all three are contrary to the corporatist's agenda
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 03:54 PM by Barack2theFuture
and they control every policy now.

GREAT suggestions though.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Only 5 recs with 37 responses.
Unfortunately, ideas contrary to the corporatist's agenda are also contrary to many at DU.

It's a sorry thing.

There's a reason why teachers aren't listened to when it's time for "reform." Their ideas actually work.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
45. K&R for sensible, pragmatic suggestions for Change.
Endless money for endless wars is just another excuse to do nothing.

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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. As a former Teacher I just posted an Award winning documentary
About a 4th grade teacher in Japan since you mentioned it in your OP

I now, as an American live in Denmark after a long health struggle and foreclosure do to that in the USA, BTW I'm doing better and will get into the system soon to have medical but its taken more than a year. No retirement though. I'm a part time janitor and teach English on the side.

Anyway
My little Attic apartment in an old house over looks a school and especially its playground in Copenhagen which is for autistic kids

If your kid is autistic you can send them there or to a normal school it is free.

The schools here have NO PRINCIPALS, the administrator is elected by the teachers from the teachers that work at the school for one year. Very strong unions.

As a teacher in the States I hated most of the administrators.

Anyway
The Award winning documentary on a Japanese teacher is found in this thread. I started


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8968605

I think it should be viewed for education and knowledge of the world's systems of pedagogic awareness.
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southmost Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
50. great suggestions
what kind of examples are we teaching our children, when teachers are not respected for their jobs.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. We're emulating the UK model when we should implement the Finnish one
The UK model which Thatcher and Blair pushed has had huge problems and is under attack there.

But it's very similar to what is being proposed and done here now.

We need to learn from what happened there and not go down the same path here.

The Finnish model works.

But that model doesn't incorporate the privatization and opportunity for some to profit that the UK and now US systems do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8601207.stm
Why do Finland's schools get the best results?

Great video along with the article that shows Finland's innovative approach.

http://www.oph.fi/english/education

Background to Finland’s success in education builds on the following
Equal opportunities

The Finnish education system offers everybody equal opportunities for education, irrespective of domicile, sex, economic situation or linguistic and cultural background. The school network is regionally extensive, and there are no sex-specific school services. Basic education is completely free of charge (including instruction, school materials, school meals, health care, dental care, commuting, special needs education and remedial teaching).
Comprehensiveness of education

Basic education encompasses nine years and caters for all those between 7 and 16 years. Schools do not select their students but every student can go to the school of his or her own school district. Students are neither channelled to different schools nor streamed.
Competent teachers

On all school levels, teachers are highly qualified and committed. Master’s degree is a requirement, and teacher education includes teaching practice. Teaching profession is very popular in Finland, and hence universities can select the most motivated and talented applicants. Teachers work independently and enjoy full autonomy in the classroom.
Student counselling and special needs education

Individual support for the learning and welfare of pupils is well accommodated, and the national core curriculum contains guidelines for the purpose. Special needs education is integrated into regular education as far as possible. Guidance counsellors support upper grade students in their studies and choice of further education.
Encouraging assessment and evaluation

The student assessment and evaluation of education and learning outcomes are encouraging and supportive by nature. The aim is to produce information that supports both schools and students to develop. National testing, school ranking lists and inspection systems do not exist.
Significance of education in society

Finnish society strongly favours education and the population is highly educated by international standards. Education is appreciated and there is a broad political consensus on education policy.
A flexible system based on empowerment

The education system is flexible and the administration based on the principal of “Centralised steering – local implementation”. Steering is conducted through legislation and norms, core curricula, government planning and information steering. Municipalities are responsible for the provision of education and the implementation. Schools and teachers enjoy large autonomy.
Co-operation

Interaction and partnerships are built at all levels of activity. There is co-operation for the development of education between various levels of administration, between schools and between other social actors and schools. Education authorities co-operate with teachers’ organisations, pedagogical subject associations and school leadership organisations. This provides strong support for the development.
A student-oriented, active conception of learning

The organisation of schoolwork and education is based on a conception of learning that focuses on students' activity and interaction with the teacher, other students and the learning environment.
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WilmywoodNCparalegal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
58. A couple of ideas
I don't necessarily think that the school building issue is that important. My schools in Italy (all public) were in run down buildings with leaky plumbing and roofs and terrible restrooms. Guess what... I still learned, primarily because the teachers (whom we refer as professors - we stay in the same classroom with the same classmates and each subject's teacher comes to our classroom. We also stand up everytime a teacher comes in as a sign of respect) were excellent and taught us to question what we see, hear and read. In my US public school experience (the last 2 years of high school), none of my teachers was like that. Instead, most of the work centered around multiple choice tests and quizzes and little about questions, answers, intellectual pursuits and quest for knowledge.

Millions of kids around the world go to school in conditions we'd find deplorable. Yet, they still learn and go on to improve their lives and pursue careers. Ask the Peace Corps what kind of school buildings are used in some parts of the world: mud huts, outdoors, no AC, etc. And yet the children learn.

My proposal, which would save money and resources, is simple but I would suspect it would be disliked by most: eliminate revenue sports and the expenses that go with it. In fact, eliminate all after school activities and sports. If a child wants to participate, s/he can do so after school and school would always come first (of course public funds could be used to provide for activities for those who can't afford it and so on, perhaps on a graduated income scale, such as the one at many community health clinics or Planned Parenthood). The rest of the world does not have nearly the same over-emphasis on sports and extracurricular activities, and yet there are athletes outside of the USA.

It boggled my mind in high school how many kids were more preoccupied with pep rallies, sports, cheerleading, etc., than with school work or, more importantly, learning.

Also eliminate the notion that you need to have a zillion extracurricular activities for college admission and make college admission solely based on academics, perhaps adding a requirement for some sort of volunteering/public service. That's what the rest of the world does.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. The thing is, not every student is like you,
Nor is Italy one of the top school systems in the world. It has been shown, time and again, that having fully funded facilities does lead to improvements in learning. I'm not talking about anything super modern with an iPad at every desk, but rather insure that the chemistry lab is well stocked, there are no drafts, that rooms maintain an adequate comfort range, the roof doesn't leak, etc.

As far as extracurricular activities go, they have their place. I've worked with kids who wouldn't be in school if they weren't on a sports team. And extracurricular activities ranging from sports to the chess or debate club helps kids explore what they like, dislike, etc. Besides, it has been shown multiple times that students who participate in extracurricular activities tend to do better than those who don't.
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