This is how "THEY" will cut Social Security:

[bvar22]

1) Saturate the Media with the meme that something MUST be done to "Reduce the Deficit" or there will be a catastrophe, and strongly imply that Social Security is one of the BIG causes for the deficit.

2)Remove Pentagon/Military Spending from any discussion of cuts,
and imply that anyone who even talks about cuts to Military Spending are crazy, drug addled extremists.

3)Give all the politicians involved plenty of time to get out public statements that they support Social Security, and would never vote to reduce benefits.

4)Form a "Independent Secret Commission" to design a "Comprehensive Package" to study ways of Reducing the Deficit. This package will be lengthy and complicated, but it WILL contain reductions to Social Security benefits. For cover, the package will also contain a few minor crumbs that ARE good for the economy. These crumbs will be minor in scale compared to the structural changes to Social Security.

This "package" and will also contain some scam that opens the door for Wall Street to have access to Social Security funds. For cover, the package will also contain some easily avoidable "regulations" that will appear to restrict how Wall Street can use the Social Security Funds.


5)The Marketing will be Up and Running when the contents of the package is revealed. The Media will be saturated with pieces that highlight and overemphasize the few good crumbs, and catastrophizing the effects of not passing "The Comprehensive Package".


6)The Progressive Caucus opposition WILL be marginalized (again), and the full force of the White House, the DLC, DNC, and their Corporate Marketing & Messaging apparatus will be used to brand them as "traitors", "with the Republicans", "against Wall Street Regulation", "against the American People", "against Saving Social Security" or "Opposed to Saving our Children".
There will be a saturation of anecdotal testimony of how certain crumbs will "Save our Family, therefore the whole package MUST pass.
The Mighty Wurlitzer will be turned UP to FULL BLAST.
Any and ALL opposition WILL be Shouted Down and Demonized.

7)The Republican Party will play their assigned part in the Kabuki, and oppose the whole thing as "Big Government Takeover". It doesn't matter that their position makes no sense. It only matters that they oppose it so the illusion of a difference is maintained.

8)This "package" will be brought to Congress to be voted on as a whole, complete package immediately after the Democratic Losses in November 2010. No honest debate will be allowed.
No discussion of amending the package or deleting some elements will be allowed.
Democrats will NOT be "voting to cut Social Security".
They will be voting FOR "Saving the Economy", or "Protecting out Children (from the deficit)".

9) The Complete Comprehensive Package of Commission Recommendations WILL pass with a Party Line vote, or one or two Republican defectors if necessary to maintain the illusion of a Hard Fight.
No Democrat will have to admit that they voted to Cut Social Security.
Instead, they voted FOR a Reform Package that Saved the Economy.


10) The politicians will flock to the cameras with statements like this:

"I am on record as supporting Social Security, and of course I would have liked to NOT cut benefits, but we had to do something."

"This is historic reform legislation, look at all the good (crumbs) we got!"

"We couldn't let the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good."

"This is the best we could do under the circumstances because we didn't have the votes.

"This is a Step Forward."

"Today, we saved our children from a crushing deficit."

Sound familiar?
It should.

If you think I'm a little over the top in my assessment,
take a look at Chris Van Hollen's (weasel, MD) performance when asked a direct question on cutting Social Security:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wHr3nMG6Y4

They are coming.
"By their works you will know them."

[texastoast]

1. Not happening

Wait and see.

[bvar22]

5. I really hope you are correct.

Two years ago I would have laughed at anyone who suggested that "The Democrats" would pass
Mandates to BUY Health Insurance without a Public Option.

BTW: Did you watch the video linked in the OP?

[Poboy]

7. The video shows that weasel SOB in all his glory. -nt

[texastoast]

10. ...

I can't see videos at work.

But I can promise you that the capital B Boomers, both Republican and Democrat, will rise again over SS and it won't be pretty for a politician who genuinely (1) dares suggest that it be privatized or (2) wants to raise retirement age.

The Dems never planned to pass HCR with a public option. Oh, yeah, they blunderbussed all over the place about it, but the real purpose was to put the simple term "public option" into the national dialog, which is something they would have done several years ago had there been a true intention to get it done after shrubbie's regime.

I'll try to log on this evening at the house and take a look at the vid.

[no limit]

12. They will be smart about, make it apply to people that are still young

since we all know how short sighted americans are.

[texastoast]

22. I can certainly see that happening

The young best get active and draw a bead on this and never let it go.

There are so many things I should have been watching and doing when I was young on matters like this, but I was naive, thinking that I wasn't going to be effective or that it was really going to work out just fine. SURELY.

[bvar22]

13. Thats the beauty of the "Comprehensive Package" scam.

Nobody is going to vote FOR cutting Social Security.

They will be voting FOR a pragmatic and sensible "Comprehensive Package" that saves "Saves the Economy".

[CoffeeCat]

41. Our corrupt politicians will get around it...

Remember when Bush sauntered around the country, wistfully lobbying for the privatization of Soc Sec? Oh, the
staged, and filled-with-loyalists townhalls. It was all designed to give the appearance of citizen support
for handing over Soc Sec funds to the Wall Street criminals.

They almost pulled it off. They got some traction. But ultimately, Americans said no.

Our criminal politicians have realized that you can't come out and say that you're "privatizing Social Security" or
that you're "cutting benefits." Just as the OP says, this time the privatization and the cuts will be disguised.

I believe that the OP's scenario is not only possible, but inevitable.

Who is in control of this country? The corporations--with our namby-pamby, I-can-be-bought-off, wussy politicians--in
tow. Why did Bush orchestrate that PR bonanza in order to privatize Soc Sec? Because Wall Street wants it. They
didn't get it, but they'll be back again very soon.

Only this time, they won't tell the truth about what they're doing. Exactly as the OP said.

If you don't anticipate that this will happen--then I feel sorry for you--because it is going to happen.

The greedy jackals want it and they have paid our politicians handsomely to do it.

[texastoast]

42. You know, I'm not a betting person so much

But I would take your money on this one.

[CoffeeCat]

43. I'm interested to know...

...why you are optimistic about our current politicians NOT messing with Soc Sec?

I laid out my reasons for my pessimism (which I believe is realism). I obviously
don't have a crystal ball, so I'm interested in varying opinions on this topic.

On what do you base your opinion that Soc Sec won't be privatized or cut?

[texastoast]

45. Because of the stir just the mention of it created before

For one thing. And the fact that it is pretty much on the radar in folks' minds now.

If "they" try to tuck it away and slip it through, "they" will not get away with it because you got AARP trumpeting to all us aging boomers (that damned socialist AARP) and Mike Wallace will be on this one. Many boomers still have more than a little fire left in them.

One thing that does concern me, however, is what some boomers will be willing to compromise in order to ensure "that they get theirs." I'm not willing to "get mine" at the expense of the generation behind me. Neither am I willing to entertain a bunch of whining from younger generations about how "they can't afford us." Both groups have to work together to not let the boomers get screwed after 40 years of working to support the younger people, nor allow any deals to be made so that the younger generation would have any less than the boomers.

What young and old need to be gearing up for is to make this a campaign issue right now, holding every candidate's feet to the fire with a few simple questions: "Are you willing to raise the age of retirement to 70 as has been suggested?" and "Are you willing to have SS privatized?" and "Are you in agreement that the simplest, most cost-effective manner to 'secure' SS is to eliminate the cap?"

And if you don't get heard at your town hall meetings (my scummy rep does ours by phone now and NEVER calls on me anymore), then getting the word out to the voters about the candidate's answers to those questions is essential. And if the answers are anti-SS, my money says that candidate is toast in large part.

Never give up and never take anything for granted.

[Marr]

46. I think they're going to surprise you.

It seems to me that our political establishment has become less and less concerned with public opinion over the last couple of decades.

[texastoast]

50. It certainly may surprise me

how hard so many are going to have to work to tar and feather these assholes to keep them out of our pockets. Oh, yah, and I'm not looking forward to it.

But not about to give up, back down, or walk off.

[The Wielding Truth]

76. The pitchfork crowd will have anyone for lunch if they start to mess with SS or MC.

[Vincardog]

47. How about this for a bet: IF the cat food commission "recommends" reducing benefits U donate $50

to DU. IF they don't I donate the $50.

[texastoast]

49. Only if

it passes. Recommendations are a dime a dozen.

[Vincardog]

51. Done. now can we please work our asses off to make sure it does not pass?

[texastoast]

71. ...

:fistbump:

[sendero]

74. I'm pretty sure they are going ...

... to try real hard. But I'm equally sure that no politician can go near a vote to touch SS without being ABSOLUTELY ASSURED of losing his/her seat.

And that is about the only thing that deters this collection of thieving fucksticks.

[eridani]

40. If it isn't why are they meeting in secret? n/t

[Enthusiast]

58. Well, as with the secret energy

meetings, they don't want to be distracted by the "lesser people" when they are doing important work that we wouldn't understand anyway.

[johnaries]

63. Secret? They aren't meeting in secret. You can view the meetings

on video at the website:

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/

[PADemD]

65. Thanks for the Link!

[obxhead]

67. You really believe this group only discusses the work of their

commission when the tape is rolling? They don't discuss it over drinks in their smoking jackets in privacy?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bvar22]

73. Bogus Information.

Is your purpose here to mislead?
or are you merely uninformed?


Here is the TRUTH:

"Senator Simpson not only has a tenuous grip on reality, he also has difficulty controlling himself. In fact, Senator Simpson has such difficulty controlling himself that the commission had to move their hearings to a secret location after Senator Simpson embarrassed himself in an interview with a 25-year old reporter. Apparently, because they were worried that he would be unable to avoid embarrassing himself again in a future encounter, the commission decided to hide out in an undisclosed location where Simpson could be kept away from any reporters as he entered and left the meetings, which were already being carried on in secret.

http://www.truth-out.org/time-put-deficit-commission-out-our-misery61095

"John Conyers (D-MI) in particular has pushed for more transparency from the fiscal commission in two key areas. He wanted full transparency for all meetings, and he wanted the recommendations made public before the midterm elections, to give the public and the candidates for those elections an opportunity to weigh in on them. Conyers has been rebuffed on both counts, actually. Not only will the working groups operate in secret, in contrast to the larger monthly meetings which will be streamed live at FiscalCommission.gov, but Reed also said that the commission will not release their draft recommendations before Election Day."

http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/05/04/cat-food-commission-will-be-carried-out-in-secret/

"First, most of your meetings are secret, apart from two open sessions before this one, which were plainly for show. There is no justification for secret meetings on deficit reduction. No secrets of any kind are involved. Nothing you say will affect financial markets. Congress long ago -- in 1975 -- reformed its procedures to hold far more sensitive and complicated meetings, notably legislative markups, in the broad light of day."

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2010/july/james-k-galbraith-blasts-deficit-commission

No Charge.

[eridani]

75. +100 n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Sounds likely.

[county worker]

3. You are right on in my opinion.

The Dems will be willing to help gut social security as a means to get repubs to support other parts of the deficit reduction such as letting the tax cuts expire.

What we are hearing today is that "we want to protect social security" which is code for we want to reduce benefits and raise the retirement age which as you say will be sold as the way to save social security.

[Poboy]

4. K&R!

[sandnsea]

6. And have no logical voice of reason

That explains where the deficit really came from or tells the truth about the shortage after 2037.

[dflprincess]

8. You forgot the promise will be made to "fix it later"

just to cover any negatives that might leak out.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

11. K&R

[bluestateguy]

14. If you are proven right and me wrong I will apologize

but these bipartisan commissions--chock full of old sages and Washington establishmentarians--almost always produce a report that is quickly ignored by policymakers and then forgotten.

[nashville_brook]

17. i totally hope you are right. it will be an up/down vote, right?

[laughingliberal]

15. Democrats running on a platform of protecting SS who wont take the pledge

are the precise definition of Machiavellian. Weasel words, indeed, for Van Hollen. We really need to pin them down. If they won't pledge to vote against the package if it cuts SS, they're planning to cut it. No other reason in the world not to make the pledge. If the commission comes up with other ideas they like, those can be put through normal legislative channels.

[nashville_brook]

19. here's one to pin right now! Suzanne Kosmas Phone: [phone] (FL dist 24)

from MoveOn:


The battle to save Social Security has just begun, but we're already making progress.

Last week, MoveOn members and our coalition partners sent more than 30,000 faxes to Congress asking representatives to sign the coalition's Social Security Promise, which commits them to:

Oppose any cuts to Social Security benefits
Oppose increases to the retirement age
Oppose any effort to privatize Social Security
And it's working! Representatives across the country—from Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona1 to Earl Pomeroy in North Dakota2 to Alan Grayson in Florida3—have pledged to protect Social Security from cuts and privatization.
But we haven't heard back from Rep. Kosmas yet. So we need to keep the pressure on, and the best way to do that is to follow up the faxes with phone calls.

Can you call Rep. Kosmas right now? Ask her if she'll sign the pledge so voters in Florida know that she is committed to protecting Social Security from all three threats: benefit cuts, raising the retirement age, and privatization.

Representative Suzanne Kosmas
Phone: [phone]

[laughingliberal]

21. Thanks!

Guess we need to make it clear it doesn't matter to us if it's part of a 'big package.' No cuts at all to SS whether they're part of a package or not. I'm so pissed we even have this damned commission.

[Robeson]

16. Agreed.

[bullwinkle428]

18. The 10-point plan sounds "magically chuckalicious"!

Oh, and Van Hollen really did show himself to be quite the weasel!

[tnlefty]

26. *snort* "magically chuckalicious"

I needed a laugh, thanks.

[damntexdem]

20. Here's what we need to do:

Talk to everyone, but especially to older voters, about the attack on Social Security.

When we're told that this is scare-mongering, note that there really are mongrels out there of whom we should be scared because they want to destroy Social Security. Urge everyone, and pledge yourself, to refuse to vote for or in any way support any politician, Dem or Repuke, who votes for an attack on SS.

[texastoast]

23. This is an excellent opportunity for a leg up for the Dems

If they play it right. :fistbump:

[Enthusiast]

59. Do you actually expect them

to 'play it right'?

[bvar22]

24. I will do that,

but I'm already down for refusing to vote for ANY Democrat who votes FOR Mandates without a Public Option. :shrug:

Besides, NO Democrat will be "attacking Social Security".
Instead, they will be reluctantly supporting a "Comprehensive Package" that "Saves our Children from a crushing Deficit". Can't let The Perfect be the Enemy of The Good!
The reduction in SS benefits will be only minor, necessary, pragmatic, sensible, Collateral Damage for Reform to take a step forward.

The Reduction in Social Security Benefits will be "only a tiny sliver" of the whole package.

[femrap]

30. Oh, yes....

we must save the precious children! Put the old folks on the floe and get rid of them.

The dems and the repugs are working for the same PTB. And TPTB want SOCIAL POWER. They want control over the lives of people....and these PTB seem to be a sadistic bunch that likes to see people suffer and die.

This 2 party system is just another Circus to distract us from the true enemy: Banksters and Corporate Lords.

[KakistocracyHater]

35. go to the retirement homes, nursing homes, & Senior Day at IHOP, Dennys

etc. there are alot of people there who would definately be interested. large print telephone numbers & addresses.

[n2doc]

25. 1-4 already done

And I disagree with the repub assessment, I think way more will support this POS legislation when it is announced. Those who oppose it from the right will jump on any increased costs as taxes and will also moan that benefits aren't being cut enough and that it should all be privatized.

I think the tactic will be to 1, cut the rate of increase in benefits still further (perhaps a "permanent cap of 0% increase to be implemented in the future if the deficit isn't eliminated"), 2, to raise the eligibility date to 72, and 3, to cut benefits for those retiring in 20 years to some percentage (say, 75%) of what we get now. All this will be tied automatically to some sort of bogus estimate of how much it takes to "balance" the SS fund.

[Mithreal]

27. Rec'd. I can't argue with that and my suspicion was reinforced by Van Hollen.

[OnionPatch]

28. We'll see, but this is going to be the litmus test for me.

If social security benefits are cut, with the help of Democrats, I'll be done with them. I know others feel the same and I hope the Dems take heed.

[texastoast]

29. Bush tried. He failed.

If we can hold him off, we can hold off some DINOs but it will take pressure from us at town halls and on the line to our reps.

Call your candidates and make this an issue now.

[tjwash]

31. Dude...were you on cable access last week at 3am screaming these exact words?

I had insomnia and watched that very rant right before "Wayne's World" came on. Do you think you could go into the free masons DC street design breakdown next, followed by how you prove that all of the gold in Fort Knox was shipped off to Great Britain in 1974?

That last one was your best piece of work BTW...

[TheKentuckian]

32. Sounds dead on

[nightrain]

33. knr. more parsing of words... disgusting... so Obama says "no privatization", does

that also mean no raising the age limit? or other decreases in benefits?


I didn't think so.... watch your back...

[vssmith]

34. Save SS; raise the cap

[Stinky The Clown]

36. K&R for clarity and insight

[Faryn Balyncd]

37. K&R...At what stage # does the President annouce he will SAVE SS "from privatization"? (3a or 3b?)

:kick:

[ProSense]

38. Don't think that's

the plan.

[Faryn Balyncd]

39. (Step #11) : The cuts will be in the form of fraudulent RIGGING of CPI/COLA calculations.

Even though current COLA's have already been rigged by the Boskin Commission in the 90's to UNDER-estimate inflation,for the purpose of cutting SS benefits, the Simpson/Bowles Commission will say that COLA's have to be re-calculated.

Your retirement will be stolen by cooking the CPI/COLA books.

[Dawgs]

44. Somewhat disagree. It will be sold as, 'what we did will ensure SS will be available forever'.

:hi:

[20score]

48. That is exactly what I think will happen. What's past is prologue.

[Mnpaul]

52. The cuts will go into effect in 2014

Seems to me that I have heard that 2014 bit somewhere before.

[defendandprotect]

53. And, let's be clear, Obama has put this play in motion . . . !!

[INdemo]

54. These people are so dumb they should not be allowed to hold a Congressional

seat..They cant see past their nose. All they think about is getting their face in front of the TV camera telling their lies and then stepping off camera and counting their corporate money..If we fix the job issue..We fix the Social Security shortage issue..Hows they for pure common sense..Something these idoits dont have.
But lets not forget..The Presidnt has to sign any "reform" package..But then I dont trust him either.
Lets go back to the days of FDR with the TVA and the New Deal..Now this was not a complicated system..It put people to work. We wre promised these TVA type jobs but the money for hese programs is out there somewhere in limbo and I gotta a feeling that banks have control of these funds and are channeling it elsewhere..

[rasputin1952]

55. I don't think R's are going to pick up seats...

I have never heard of any political party winning an election when they have nothing to offer the people. The GOP is running on empty in the idea tank, the have not/cannot offer anything...the ideology of "no" has boxed them into loss.

[Art_from_Ark]

77. The Election of 1840

is a prime example of a political party winning an election while not offering anything of substance to the people, except for "bread" (make that "booze") and "circuses".

[rasputin1952]

80. That was a pretty interesting election...

it set the stage for a number of things , including the Whig party and it's eventual demise and the Republican party which arose from the ashes offering Lincoln as it's first major candidate. Ominously, it also brought "negative politics" and sloganeering to the norm. There was little substance to it and was essentially anti-Jackson even though Jackson had been out of office, his hand picked successor was deemed as incredibly incompetent, (plenty of truth there).

The one thing voters were worried about was a financial disaster lurking in the shadows; the few that took it seriously knew they had to break away from anything "Jackson".

Lot's of alcohol involved, political promises never kept and a flood of political appointees followed, this was before a decent Civil Service was in place and political appointments were expected and were seen as steps to personal enrichment as opposed to doing the nation service.

[JoseGaspar]

56. It is hard to know what is a "shiny object" and what is actually...

...going to be on the chopping block. Some of it is simple opportunism... with a range of "austerity" measures having broad support and waiting for the political moment.

Take the top six of FDRs programs and you often find that loud talk about one of them goes on while another is quietly "reformed".

You can see it now with the moves to liquidate ("privatize") Fannie Mae... with an odd cast of characters on each "side". Arguably, this is the second or third most important of FDR's reforms ("Home ownership for all"), essentially being scuttled without a real discussion... with Barney Frank screaming "Kill It" while some mortgage bankers are now calling for re-nationalization.

You can't tell the players without a scorecard.

[Enthusiast]

57. I view this as

a very likely scenario. We can see this forming right before our eyes. The deficit commission was intentionally stacked with anti-social security zealots. And the propaganda is taking shape in the media rants against "government spending" and the "out of control" deficit.

[truedelphi]

69. I do too. And the Republicans, on their end,

Have taught their people that "entitlements" means "welfare."

When I talk to the young Repug zealots who work at the local coffee shop, they have no idea that anyone ever paid anything into the Social Security Fund. I mean, that indicates they do not even examine their paychecks!

[RedCloud]

60. We will remember and not just the fifth of November!

[bonnieS]

61. My Congressman is already

following these talking points.

You are totally right.

[amborin]

62. knr

[Better Believe It]

64. I think you pretty much nailed it. The only thing I can add is that they'll also cut Medicare and

Medicaid. That's the next step in health care reform we can't believe in.

K & R

[obxhead]

66. Then a segment of DU will cheer for the crumbs and start

100's of posts about how great Obama is for getting those meaningless crumbs for us.

[Mimosa]

79. ^ LOL ^

I can imagine the phrasing and all the blue links.

[earth mom]

68. Sorry to late to rec but K & R & Bookmarked!

Thanks for posting this! :thumbsup:

[blueworld]

70. Excellent points but this is one issue I actually feel near despair over

I simply do not believe there will be anything, anywhere, anytime that we can do to stop it. The retirement age will be raised, along with the "early" retirement/reduced benefit age. They will appeal to the young folks about having their taxes raised for sick, old lazy bass turds whose benefits are driving the deficit through the ozone. They will scream & yell about waste & fraud.

There's an article on the internet today outlining major companies that are already reviewing their "insurance" benefits & what will be expected of them under the new HCR changes. One of the major things they're whining about & looking to drop is providing health benefits to their retirees.

Can the unions really help? I sincerely feel terrible about this because I've never given up or run away from a fight in my life - but for whatever reason, I feel this issue is doomed. And PS - my 2 Democratic Senators & Democratic Rep never have the decency to answer my letters (or vote as I've requested except once) other than to request donations. Sorry to be the wet blanket here.

[texastoast]

72. N'ai pas peur

anything except our own defeatist attitudes.

It's time to go to work.

[blueworld]

83. Sorry, mon ami; you are maybe either rich or young?

I will predict either some serious reduction of SS benefits, a raise in retirement age, or health care premium increases for seniors before the next presidential election.

I can't afford to lose anything more than I already have. Peace.

[texastoast]

85. Nope, old and barely going to make it on my retirement and SS

You predict all you want, and I'm headed to the front line so that none of those predictions come true. If you want to protect it, you will fight. Until we have a planetary convergence that eliminates greed, peace doesn't work when we are up against the Wall Street scumbags and their Washington lackeys. I hope you will join me.

[blueworld]

87. Read my post again. I've been fighting for years.

But I believe I'll let you hit the front lines for awhile & I'll concentrate on being a medic.
Bon chance! :patriot:

[bvar22]

84. I am with you.

Just like the "historic" Health Insurance Reform with the Never-to-Be Public Option Mirage,
I believe that it is already a Done Deal.

The scripts have already been written.
The Players have already been cast.
The Villains & Heroes have already been chosen.
The Soundtrack & Choreography has already been approved.
The Timing has been set for immediately after the Panic Inducing Democratic Losses in November. (BTW: The "Blaming the Liberals" subplot here will be very dramatic.)
The "National Emergency" distraction/misdirection is already in the oven. (Iran?....or a Market Crash that demands something be done immediately...without discussion...like TARP?)

The only thing left is for the Kabuki Theater to be played out.

[Mimosa]

78. K&R a 1000 times! n/t

[DailyGrind51]

81. Bush tried after his "win" in 2004, and failed!

[blindpig]

82. Yep, something like that...

That really wasn't so tough a prognostication, think we've seen that movie before, Ebert.x(

[Bryn]

86. Do they really think we're stupid?

[Rod85]

88. Read the Healthcare Bill that was passed

I read the Healthcare Bill Congress passed.

It has more to do with Social Security than Healthcare. I suggest everyone read it.
If I told you what is in that Bill they passed you wouldn't even believe me.

Please read it, it's long and boring but you won't believe why it was so important to pass without knowing what was in it.