It's the Beginning of the End for the American Empire

[unhappycamper]

It's the Beginning of the End for the American Empire
Tomdispatch.com / By Chalmers Johnson

August 17, 2010 | In 1962, the historian Barbara Tuchman published a book about the start of World War I and called it The Guns of August. It went on to win a Pulitzer Prize. She was, of course, looking back at events that had occurred almost 50 years earlier and had at her disposal documents and information not available to participants. They were acting, as Vietnam-era Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara put it, in the fog of war.

So where are we this August of 2010, with guns blazing in one war in Afghanistan even as we try to extricate ourselves from another in Iraq? Where are we, as we impose sanctions on Iran and North Korea (and threaten worse), while sending our latest wonder weapons, pilotless drones armed with bombs and missiles, into Pakistan's tribal borderlands, Yemen, and who knows where else, tasked with endless "targeted killings" which, in blunter times, used to be called assassinations? Where exactly are we, as we continue to garrison much of the globe even as our country finds itself incapable of paying for basic services?

I wish I had a crystal ball to peer into and see what historians will make of our own guns of August in 2060. The fog of war, after all, is just a stand-in for what might be called "the fog of the future," the inability of humans to peer with any accuracy far into the world to come. Let me nonetheless try to offer a few glimpses of what that foggy landscape some years ahead might reveal, and even hazard a few predictions about what possibilities await still-imperial America.

Let me begin by asking: What harm would befall the United States if we actually decided, against all odds, to close those hundreds and hundreds of bases, large and small, that we garrison around the world? What if we actually dismantled our empire, and came home? Would Genghis Khan-like hordes descend on us? Not likely. Neither a land nor a sea invasion of the U.S. is even conceivable.

~snip~

Would various countries we've invaded, sometimes occupied, and tried to set on the path of righteousness and democracy decline into "failed states?" Probably some would, and preventing or controlling this should be the function of the United Nations or of neighboring states. (It is well to remember that the murderous Cambodian regime of Pol Pot was finally brought to an end not by us, but by neighboring Vietnam.)

[tomp]

1. what would happen?

u.s. imperialism would be unable to maintain its "geopolitical" (read:corporate) advantage.

the idea that we will blow you up if you don't do what we want has been the cornerstone of u.s. foreign policy for the last century.

[tavalon]

2. It isn't the beginning, actually

I'd guess we're a little beyond the half way mark. With the level of disinfo happening, perhaps we are even closer to the end of empire. I'll admit I'm scared because I don't know what America looks like after. But during is certainly a bit of a horror show.

[lunatica]

3. If you want to see what the US future could look like look at France and

England and any other country that's survived being downsized from being Colonial Empires. They're doing fine, and so are many of their former Colonies.

[tavalon]

4. Perhaps I'm mistaken

but we are a much larger country with a really easily manipulated populace. I don't see England or France having that. So, while it might be similar, it might also include rednecks with guns and our own military turning on us. Or our own police forces turning their big guns on us instead of just tasering us.

[lunatica]

5. Granted, that's one scenario

But I think it won't happen because we're a military empire. And there are just as many ignorant people in every country as there are here. We really aren't special either as superior or inferior to our fellow human beings. That's the first thing we need to learn.

[tavalon]

6. Too many of us here think ourselves superior

I worry that we are really quite inbred and a bit inferior.

[glitch]

7. We're probably not inferior to other humans. Everybody seems quite inbred, IMO.

Now inferior to other species, that may be a given at this point. The last single species to cause this level of global extinction was cyanobacteria, IIRC.

[tavalon]

10. Hmmmm, smarter than cyanobacteria? Sad to say, I'm not sure

and I'm definitely not sure about us being better than many species. Or even most species. We've moved, IMO, too far away from our roots. Most animals understand very fundamental basics of living with nature that we just don't have anymore.

[glitch]

17. Inferior to other species may be a given.

Not superior. Just to be very clear, we are agreed. :hi:

[Javaman]

11. I think of the Romans...

The failure to elect or appoint strong leaders, the inability to sustain a level of living for their core populations while grabbing up more and more land, the ruling elite of the praetorian guards, the devaluation of their money due to costly military conquests, etc...

Granted we aren't Rome, but if we don't stop waging wars of stupidity we will continue to bankrupt our society like Rome.

My question is: what next? which country will we invade? You know as well as I it will happen. It will be at that point, that we as a nation, as we currently know it, will cease to exist and will be replaced by some bastardized version of democracy. As someone smarter than me stated, "fascism with a smiley face". We are well on our way as it is, but the last element needed to complete the picture is some sort of charismatic nut job to rule over us all.

We are not protected from the willful fools who wish to undermine our society under the guise of patriotism while knowingly or unknowingly preaching the virtues of nationalism.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. The fringe has always been saying that pretty much forever.

"Oh god, we're just like the Romans!"

Total cliche.

[Javaman]

12. LOL I just wrote a reply with something along that same title. LOL

however, read up thread and see my responce.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. It's always different reasons too.

Oh, it's because they didn't elect strong leaders. Oh, it's because they had a strong central government. Oh, it's because they had the gays.

[Javaman]

16. I think it's a combination of several reasons...

some of which fit the Roman model, some of which fit the British model, some of which fit just about any other empire that has fallen type model. In the end our undoing will be uniquely American and that's what scares the crap out of me.

[Uncle Joe]

15. There is no mention of the Roman Empire in this column, if anything the author compares us more to

the British Empire?:shrug:

[area51]

9. We need to protect the home front;

fsck the multiple wars of choice and the bases. Start bringing soldiers home, offer them work in rebuilding this country's crumbling infrastructure and offering them training in the medical professions. Then we can start a transition to single-payer. If you can't keep your citizens alive at home, and have them dying due to treatable diseases, WTF are you fighting in other countries for? To have soldiers come home to dead citizens?

[Uncle Joe]

14. I believe the author has created a good analysis and the column is well worth the read.

Thanks for the thread, unhappycamper.