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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:22 AM
Original message
Arne Duncan thinks it's great for L.A. Times to release teacher data publicly.
This simply infuriates me in its arrogance of assuming that a teacher can be judged by what her students do on one test. Our area publishes school scores and grades...but never the individual teacher data. This is outrageous.

Those teachers did not get to decide on any other factors such as who is in their class, the child's background, the parents' cooperation. Often the really good teachers are given too many problem children at once because they can "handle them." Sounds complimentary, doesn't it? But it is not.

That teacher's merit pay and evaluation will depend on the scores of the children who are assigned to them.

And Arne Duncan proudly comes out and says the L.A. Times is doing the right thing to publish the names of the teachers
Principals, teachers, students, parents, and even the National Council of Churches have pleaded with Obama and Duncan to stop these attacks on public education.

They are all being ignored.

U.S. schools chief endorses release of teacher data


U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan, posing with ninth-graders Asha Antoine, left, and Arielle Watkins during a summit in Washington last week, endorsed The Times' report on teacher effectiveness. This type of public analysis, he said, “can really empower teachers to strengthen their craft and find out who are the great teachers around them.” (Chip Somodevilla, Getty Images / August 10, 2010)

He says parents have a right to know. He makes it sound like we want to hide things from the public. Lies, damned lies, Arne. Shame on you.

U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said Monday that parents have a right to know if their children's teachers are effective, endorsing the public release of information about how well individual teachers fare at raising their students' test scores.

"What's there to hide?" Duncan said in an interview one day after The Times published an analysis of teacher effectiveness in the Los Angeles Unified School District, the nation's second largest school system. "In education, we've been scared to talk about success."

Duncan's comments mark the first time the Obama administration has expressed support for a public airing of information about teacher performance — a move that is sure to fan the already fierce debate over how to better evaluate teachers.


This is a shame.

A DUer has a post going about how Bill Gates seems to be well connected with the company forming the assessment of the school teachers. He seems to be the power now behind education reform, and Arne dances to his tune.

Gates money behind LA Times hit-piece & "effectiveness ratings" of individual teachers?

On Sunday the LA Times published a story which, once again, lays all the ills of US schools at the feet of teachers. In the months to follow, the Times will publish "effectiveness ratings" of individual teachers in the LA system; ratings the Times itself commissioned:

"Seeking to shed light on the problem, The Times obtained seven years of math and English test scores from the Los Angeles Unified School District and used the information to estimate the effectiveness of L.A. teachers — something the district could do but has not... In coming months, The Times will publish a series of articles and a database analyzing individual teachers' effectiveness in the nation's second-largest school district — the first time, experts say, such information has been made public anywhere in the country."

..."A $14,000 GRANT FROM THE HECHINGER REPORT, an independent nonprofit education news organization at Teachers College, Columbia University, HELPED FUND THE WORK. The institute did not participate in the analysis.

The Hechlinger Report has been in existence only one year; the Gates Foundation was one of its start-up funders & continues funding to this day: NEW YORK, NY – An independently funded arm of Teachers College at Columbia University today announced the creation of an innovative newsgathering effort called The Hechinger Report to provide in-depth coverage of national education issues on its own and in collaboration with other news organizations...The Institute’s entry into the expanding field of non-profit, non-partisan journalism is supported by $1 million in initial funding from Lumina Foundation for Education and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Lumina Foundation, Hechlinger's other funder, is also a recent creation (2000) & associated with finance & ed deformers: Lumina Foundation was created in the summer of 2000 when USA Group— at the time the largest private guarantor of student loans in the country—sold its assets to Sallie Mae. The proceeds of the sale, $400 million in cash and $370 million in Sallie Mae stock, formed the basis of the new foundation...

(Initiatives include) Making Opportunity Affordable, which is also funded by the Wal-Mart Foundation...

The CEO) has forged informal partnerships with organizations that have similar objectives, including the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.


The very people funding the study are pushing for education "reform". A conflict of interest methinks.




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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Here's the LA Times article cited in your link. It's an interesting read.

GRADING THE TEACHERS

Who's teaching L.A.'s kids?


A Times analysis, using data largely ignored by LAUSD, looks at which educators help students learn, and which hold them back.


Over seven years, John Smith's fifth-graders have started out slightly ahead of those just down the hall but by year's end have been far behind. (Irfan Khan, Los Angeles Times)

--snip--

In Los Angeles and across the country, education officials have long known of the often huge disparities among teachers. They've seen the indelible effects, for good and ill, on children. But rather than analyze and address these disparities, they have opted mostly to ignore them.

Most districts act as though one teacher is about as good as another. As a result, the most effective teachers often go unrecognized, the keys to their success rarely studied. Ineffective teachers often face no consequences and get no extra help.

Which teacher a child gets is usually an accident of fate, in which the progress of some students is hindered while others just steps away thrive.

Though the government spends billions of dollars every year on education, relatively little of the money has gone to figuring out which teachers are effective and why.

--snip--

More at link: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers-value-20100815,0,258862,full.story


:patriot:
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I am for merit pay evaluation of teachers, but not by way of standardized tests
nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. But that is reality now.
They don't care if we don't like it.

It does not matter to them what teachers, parents, principals and others think.

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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I wish someone would undertake investigations on whether constant standardized test preparation
Edited on Tue Aug-17-10 08:12 AM by DailyGrind51
destroys students' enthusiasm for learning. I believe that it does and that we are merely testing for the what we are creating by the constant testing.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. There looks to be a growing backlash in the UK about standardized testing
They are further along in this cycle than we are since what Tony Blair and New Labour did with education, is similar to what is happening here now.

They have been having problems similar to ones developing here and some studies have been recommending against continuing constant standardized testing and moving to teachers' assessments of students.

http://www.gtce.org.uk/policy/features/league_tables0708/

Support learning, not league tables


published:28 Jul 2008


They took evidence from across the education spectrum and government, including GTC evidence which they quote extensively. The committee's findings - reached unanimously, by MPs from all main political parties - were unequivocal.

We support the Select Committee. Government is due to respond this term and we'll be watching their response.

What the select committee said
A single set of tests cannot validly achieve all of the purposes for which they are being used, which range from tracking individual pupil progress to whole-school accountability.

If test results were instead used for closely-defined purposes, schools would be freed from the imperative to pursue test results at all costs to the detriment of other aspects of education.
The Government should also reform performance tables to include a wider variety of measures of school performance and present this information in a more accessible way. Teacher assessment should have greater prominence. Forms of assessment that are designed to promote personalised learning should not be part of the accountability regime.

Much more at the link.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/20/primary-education-review
What is wrong with the curriculum?

There is an over-emphasis on the skills of reading, writing and maths at the expense of other subjects, the report claims. This limits children's enjoyment of school and risks severely compromising their natural curiosity, imagination and love of learning, it says.

National testing at 11 has meant schools focus on short-term learning at the cost of children's long-term development. The most "conspicuous casualties" are arts and the humanities. Learning that requires time for talking, problem solving and exploring ideas is sacrificed for what it describes as a "memorisation and recall" style of learning.

There is a false belief, it claims, that a focus on basic skills combined with a breadth of learning covering a full range of subjects cannot be achieved. This is a false debate, according to the report's lead author, Robin Alexander, of Cambridge University, who cites evidence that schools that blend literacy and numeracy into the wider teaching of other subjects often get the best results.

He insists some schools are making the current curriculum work but that it is an obstacle rather than an aid to the success of their children.




Tests blamed for blighting children's lives
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/feb/20/primary-school-review
Landmark study of primary schools calls for teachers to be freed of targets

* Polly Curtis, education editor
* The Guardian, Friday 20 February 2009

Children's lives are being impoverished by the government's insistence that schools focus on literacy and numeracy at the expense of creative teaching, the biggest review of the primary school curriculum in 40 years finds today.


~~~

Teaching unions, headteachers and major educational bodies all backed the plans, setting the government on a collision course with schools if it fails to consider the proposals.

The review accuses the government of attempting to control what happens in every classroom in England, leading to an excessive focus on literacy and numeracy in an "overt politicisation" of children's lives. Despite this too many children still leave primary school having failed to master the 3Rs.

Sats have also narrowed the scope of what is taught in schools, it claims, concluding: "The problem of the curriculum is inseparable from the problem of assessment and testing."


Again, much more there.



Contrast this with the Finnish education approach, which has resulted in Finland consistently being at the top in terms of education.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8601207.stm

http://www.oph.fi/english/education

That's the model we should emulate, not the failed UK one.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. Well, well, well...
Let's just consider NCLB for a wee moment, and the standardized testing that has been forced upon us here in Texas for YEARS, and which has become the norm across the nation thanks to this Bushco piece-of-crap legislation:

we're supposed to be 'moving' our students into "Quadrant D," where rigor and relevance rule, and students 'synthesize and evaluate' key concepts, which purportedly 'solidly embeds these key concepts' in our precious children's agile minds. Hmph! The illustrious proponent of the "rigor and relevance" paradigm, one Dr. Willard Daggett (see especially www.wpaag.org/CharacterEducationTowerArticle.htm), asserted in the first paragraph of his seminal article (promoting this rigor and relevance meme) that standardized testing doesn't work.

Much research supports Daggett's assertion, with contemporary research here in Texas showing absolutely no correlation between reading skills and 'high scores on standardized tests.'

Oh, and here's a rich irony for you: last year, students could pass the math TAKS test with a score of 58%!!!

Oh, and there's more: regardless of whether a child elects to do NO work whatsoever in my classroom, I cannot give a child less than 55% on their 9-week report cards, 'so that they won't get discouraged' and 'they'll have a fighting chance to improve their score.' What message do you think this sends to our children?!

Sigh... I am searching relentlessly for a teaching position, having NO success since I'm in an 'accelerated' program, and I don't have my 'teacher's certification' yet. Never mind that I have a master's degree, a 140 IQ, a perfect score on my PPR and a near perfect score on my provisional certification exam. Never mind that the students I've had the distinct honor to teach have consistently told me that I "make math easy to understand" and that I "explain math so clearly." Oh, and that I'm 'fun' and 'cool' as a teacher (need I mention that my classroom management skills result in a safe and productive classroom?).

It's important to note that most of the corporatists in our nation want a compliant workforce, with just enough 'education' to make our young people viable service industry workers, or factory fodder. If you don't believe this, then tell me where IS all the financial support for our system of public education?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. It does. Especially for children who learn at different paces
and have the potential to develop skills they are gifted with, but must be left to languish while they work for the test.

It is soul-destroying for a child to be forced to confine their learning abilities, which are immense at a young age, to 'studying to pass a test'. I am a teacher but in no way would I participate in such a system. I have had the most successful results where my students were far above the grade requirements for their age, in every subject and I never tested them at all until they were at least in third grade, something you can do in private school. But they were prepared to take tests, just like teaching them to tie a bow and I never considered that part of their academic education, just learning a skill that would be necessary later on.

And when you EDUCATE children and see the joy and the capabilities they have and how far they will go when they are enthusiastic about learning, even children with LD, and then you introduce them to testing, you realize how stultifying it is, how the children have to divert their attention away from actual learning and apply it itto that chore, because that is all testing is, a chore. I made it a game, so they would not be too turned off, but these are children who actually had experienced the joy of learning. My heart goes out to those children who will never experience that under this system, and to the teachers who are restricted from applying their professional skills to help their students learn.

My conscience would never permit me to be a part of the Bush/Obama assault on children's creative learning abilities. I consider it cruel.

No real educator would have ever devised a program like this. NCLB was devised by Businessmen for Business. It will produce non-critical thinkers, and indeed has already.

But Rightwing Educational Publishing Corps, friends of the Bushes, have made millions from this increase in testing. So I suppose it benefited someone.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. If my kids reactions to them is any indication...
That would be a "yes". My oldest asked why they spent weeks not learning anything, and why didn't they get a graded test back so they could know what questions they missed.
My only response was that they were only conducted to make money for companies.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. This part about a teacher judged effective until the "test scores"
You know those high stakes tests?

I am quite sure most at DU now are all for the new reforms. Why? Because Obama is pushing them. The same things Bush pushed and we fought him. Odd, huh?

This is disturbing.

"Even at Third Street Elementary in Hancock Park, one of the most well-regarded schools in the district, Karen Caruso stands out for her dedication and professional accomplishments.

A teacher since 1984, she was one of the first in the district to be certified by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards. In her spare time, she attends professional development workshops and teaches future teachers at UCLA.

She leads her school's teacher reading circle. In her purse last spring, she carried a book called "Strategies for Effective Teaching."

Third Street Principal Suzie Oh described Caruso as one of her most effective teachers.

But seven years of student test scores suggest otherwise."


In the Times analysis, Caruso, who teaches third grade, ranked among the bottom 10% of elementary school teachers in boosting students' test scores. On average, her students started the year at a high level — above the 80th percentile — but by the end had sunk 11 percentile points in math and 5 points in English."


I often got the toughest problems. It was because I was a good teacher and had good classroom management skills.
I turned around so many kids, and I helped them learn and become productive.

They were not able to do well on standardized tests. Now, since I was their teacher I would now be judged by those scores.

This administration has convinced the public that nothing else matters but one test score.

I have seen several forums become anti-public schools in the last year and a half.

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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. *I am quite sure most at DU now are all for the new reforms*
Please do me a favor and do not count me as one of those in favor of these reforms.

I have always been one to favor learning and asking questions in the pursuit of knowledge.
I look at the new reform and concluded it is a process to dumb down the American youth.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thanks, I won't. But the number is growing.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. It sounds like you did as I did...
...WELCOME the most challenging students into your classroom.

My reputation as a teacher was that I could do that AND still manage my classroom in such a way that discipline wasn't an issue. So I was often given those challenging kids. I loved it! It was great to see them start to learn and 'bloom' so to speak. It was one of my favorite things about teaching.

Madfloridian, have you heard about the new legislation in California to have high school students evaluate their high school teachers? I think it has already passed at least one house (maybe both) and is voluntary. Supposedly the evaluations are only to be given to the teacher being evaluated. The voluntary part is what people don't understand...peer pressure will make it totally involuntary. I also suspect it may eventually be mandatory and that the evaluations won't just be given to the teacher evaluated. Your thoughts?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. no, it's actually boilerplate propaganda: "it's the teachers"!
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Criminey. Why is this so hard to understand?
First is the brainless cutline to the picture. How do they know that John Smith's students started out ahead? How do they know they ended up far behind? There is no instrument that will show that with any validity. This kind of vacuous statement is based on some pencil and paper, multiple-choice test. If anyone thinks these tests can do that, they need to actually learn about assessment, because they are ignorant in their blind faith in corporate testing.

Second is the statement that there are "huge disparities among teachers" as if this were not the case in every job and profession in the world, as if a stupid couple of scan-tron sheets would be the way to solve a problem that no other profession has been able to figure out. Do we suppose that every police dept is staffed with perfect cops? How about soldiers? What paper and pencil test proves how good they are? Doctors? Bankers?

Third. Kids aren't widgets. One size and style doesn't fit all. The best teacher for one kid might be the worst for another.


Guys. This is all political. The attack on teachers and schools comes from the bowels of the right wing of the republican party. Democrats who support this stuff are either stupid or tools of the right wing.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. A lot of this has to do with teacher education
Education is not a major with a lot of statistics. So if one was being judged by something that you do not understand then of course one would feel unfairly put upon. It is only human nature.

For example, look at the reception Bill James got when he started doing real statistical analysis in baseball. Even more than teaching, baseball scouts and management did not understand the process and were resistant to the idea put forth. Eventually they came around when they saw statistical analysis of their employees created a better outcome. Likewise, once the resistance in education is overcome this will be a way to measure teacher performance and non-controversial.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. There may be a problem with teacher education
but this isn't what this is about. James used real numbers that actually meant something. If you think the numbers that come from scan tron tests and check list forms are going to give you any kind of meaningful numbers, you are the one who doesn't understand numbers. The term garbage in - garbage out is the operative phrase. I do know how statistics works, and I know the first step is getting meaningful data to work with.

There are valid methods for evaluating teachers and effective instruction, but they are not being used. The purpose is not to improve education, but to prove that it should be turned over to private interests.

(By the way. Most Masters Programs for Education call for quite a bit of statistics. I wonder how many hours of statistics you have to do to get a law degree and become a congress critter.)
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. 0 hours of statistics to become a lawyer
Quite a few to become an economist, tho.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. About what I thought.
The point here is that the people making these education decisions know nothing about how the metrics they are establishing work. It's not a matter of teachers not understanding statistics. If you are being pummeled with some brass knuckles it doesn't matter if you know the molecular structure of brass.

An analogy to using the data they use to evaluate learning would be to use your basketball example. Suppose they decided to base a player's effectiveness based on how many credits in PE their children had. Or hire and fire a coach based on how well the players he just got this year did last year. Of course that data would prove to be useless and show that there is no correlation between that information and performance. There are reams of research that shows the poor correlation between paper tests and learning. But in basketball, they would stop trying to use the useless metric. In education, we have politicians dredging up failed programs and and saying "Lets spend more money with the test corporations and see if that makes it better."
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. What are the metrics which accurately measure teacher performance?
You seem to think test scores do not measure learning. Unfortunately, until colleges stop looking at test scores then test scores count. (BTW, I always wondered why colleges don't get sued for using test scores on a disparate impact basis, but that is not the subject at hand.)

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Do you really want some education here
or are you just whistling? Don't lump all tests together. Colleges don't use test scores alone to determine admittance. Plus they are looking at the student scores for the student - not the battery of teachers who had that student for 12 years. Apples and Oranges. Even the SAT's have been shown to have no correlation with success at college.

Look. We can discuss this as an intellectual exercise, but you have to know that the tests and the scores and the level of performance and the quality of instruction have very little to do with each other. All of this is just a matter of finding a scapegoat that will allow corporate interests to take over schools. They will get their contracts for public funds (your tax dollars) directly from government fiat without you or anyone who knows anything about education having a say. Why isn't the public up in arms to fire all the soldiers in Afghanistan? We've been at that war longer than it took to defeat Germany, Italy, and Japan. Look at al the drug lord violence on the border. Surely we should fire all the guards. This isn't about doing right by children. It's about money.
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mike r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. LA Teacher's Union Leader Calls For Boycott of LA Times
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JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. The Union Leader doesn't want ANY evaluation of teachers at all
I don't agree. There are plenty of teachers that suck. These evaluations are not a one-shot deal. This was a multi-year study. The scores of the kids were tracked at the beginning of the school year and at the end. Teaching is a skill and just because you have a job as a teacher, doesn't automatically give you that skill. We need some kind of evaluation tool and I think this is a positive one.

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catrose Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Union busting
Nothing to do with teacher quality, kids learning, or anything Arne & co. say it is. They're just busting the next union. What a shame that the Democrats are participating.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is wrong in so many ways. And where did Gates get his degree in education?
It's unbelievable that the teaching profession is being ATTACKED in this way under a Democratic president. Just unbelievable.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And who gave this company the right to evaluate and judge teachers...
in their classrooms.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. and who elected BILL GATES head of education policy in the US.
Oh, that's right, his money.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. The oligarchs don't even bother to mask their power any more. n/t
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. Where did Gates get any degree that isn't honorary?
He's a dropout.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. All judged by one test...paragraph.
"Later this month, The Times will publish a database of more than 6,000 elementary school teachers ranked by their ability to improve students' scores on standardized tests, marking the first time such information had been released publicly. Already, roughly 700 teachers have requested and received their scores, enabling them to comment before publication."


Where is the consideration for classroom test? Daily and weekly assignments? Grades in teachers' gradebooks? Portfolios of the students' activities?

Have they thrown it out the window? Heaven help us and the kids if that is true.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. And will the LA Times print the comments with the scores?
They should not be printing this stuff.

Do they print the comments of people who cancel their newspaper subscriptions. I'd like to know because I canceled the L.A. Times because of its right-wing editorial slant. That newspaper failed for the longest time to publish anything about the Downing Street Memos. At least, I did not see it. Their reporting in the lead-up to the Iraq War was sycophantic. In my opinion, they literally fawned George W. Bush for many years. I let them know exactly what I though when I dropped my subscription. I bet they did not print my remarks.

They print very few letters to the editor. I'd like to see them scored compared to other newspapers around the world. They might be surprised that McClatchy, the New York Times, the Washington Post and many, many other newspapers would score much better than they do.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Students aren't performing well to these standards. With gates involved
I'd guess that there is some underlying move toward "non traditional" learning that involves
the heavy use of Micosoft products tailored & targeted at improving those scores.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. Duncan never had a real job in his life. He got them all through connections; he's a good lapdog.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. What about parents?
As somebody who lived in New Orleans for a long time I'm no fan of school boards or some school administrators.

But teachers have tough jobs. It sometimes seems disproportionate responsibility for students failures is placed on them. There are so many kids now who come from broken families and who have problems which prevent them from being able to perform well academically.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. If you are choosing a career or course of study, don't pick teaching.
The pay is lousy. The hours are much longer than you could ever believe. Two of my friends who were teachers were seriously injured on the job -- by students. You have to take numerous really stupid courses. The pay is OK but not that great compared to some other things you can do -- like sell stocks or CPA work. Don't count on the promise of a pension because Wall Street thinks your pension money should belong to it. And, now this. Why would anyone become or stay a teacher? It's beyond me.

I'm glad that I never became a public school teacher.

And yet, I support those who do. I just think they are gluttons for punishment.

If I were a teacher in Los Angeles, I would drop my LA Times subscription over this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. No one should choose teaching as a career at this time.
.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. maybe this is the transparency we were promised during the past campaign. . . .
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Selective transparency.
If a block opposes your agenda, you can "evaluate" them with something that isn't actually a valid evaluation, and make it public. That will show them!

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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. The message is clear: Teachers,
move to the 'burbs and teach middle class kids. No one wants you to teach poor performing kids or work in poverty stricken areas. In fact, if you try it, you're gonna get burned. New teachers put aside your idealism and your desire to help. If you step into a classroom with students that can't / don't manage themselves you are taking your career and your income into a dangerous dark alley filled with those who would deprive you of them. Stand aside and let the charters take care of it. They know best.

Nothing like a little public tar and feathering to help bring those nasty teachers around. Clearly the Obama administration, fronted by Duncan, will continue the beatings until moral improves. To think that the administration could possible approve of this libelous attack is beyond bearing. If Obama doesn't change Duncan's course pretty quick he will have lost me for good.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. +1000
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I agree - this one is getting out-of-hand
My wife is a life-long teacher . . . and a good one as evidenced by peer teacher-of-the-year selections. But that does not mean her personal evaluations are fair game to be made available to everyone

It is time each union local get involved and speak out. This is a threat to ALL public school teachers.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. There was a gentleman representing and defending teachers
against this bullshit on CNN this afternoon. I have tried to find the clips on their website, I'll post it if I can locate the darn thing.

What surprised me was that CNN gave him any time at all. The representative gave an articulate and passionate response, but if
Duncan agrees, who will stop him?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thought you might be interested in this one mads, from CSM.
A right way and a wrong way to link teachers and student test scores?

The Los Angeles Times plans to publish names of teachers and how well they do in raising their students' standardized test scores. Some say it will result in a backlash to emerging 'value added' analysis of teacher performance.


The Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools in Los Angeles will open in September. A controversy is brewing over whether the Los Angeles Times newspaper should publish teachers’ names along with an analysis of their students’ standardized test scores.

The debate has generated heated assertions that transparency should prevail at all costs, or, on the other side, that it’s unfair to label individual teachers using possibly flawed statistics. But the bigger questions – such as the way to responsibly use these kinds of data – are being lost, say some analysts. They worry that anger over the forthcoming Los Angeles Times article will cause a backlash against so-called "value added" analysis of teacher performance – which is the method the Times uses.

“This is where the advocates for value-added are getting a bit ahead of themselves,” says Douglas Harris, an education professor at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. “Teachers are already feeling under the gun on this kind of thing. They’re willing to go in this direction if it’s done right, but this is an example where not being careful, and it could easily backfire and undermine the more productive uses.”

“Value-added data” is the latest trend in teacher accountability: the idea that a student’s gains from the previous year's test – as opposed to his or her overall performance – can be measured and tied to the latest teacher. The hope is that the process weeds out a lot of external factors that can influence student achievement on the tests. While not a brand new idea – it was initially developed in Tennessee and Dallas, which have data going back many years – it’s only beginning to be used widely in districts and states, and many are just now getting the kind of data that makes such analyses possible.

The federal government has pushed for such systems, and it has urged states to link teacher evaluations and student performance.

But such evaluations remain controversial among many people, particularly unions.

“There are too many variables ,” says A.J. Duffy, president of United Teachers Los Angeles. He is particularly critical of the Times database – and is calling for a boycott of the paper. But he says he also opposes using value-added data in evaluations at all, although he acknowledges it could be a useful tool to give teachers feedback. “I believe in a system that emphasizes the whole student,” not just standardized tests, he says.

Proponents of value-added say that’s a valid criticism, agreeing that no one should expect that student gains on a standardized test could capture the creativity or broader enrichment that goes on in many teachers’ classrooms. That’s why it should be only one tool among several used in teacher evaluations, they say.


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2010/0817/A-right-way-and-a-wrong-way-to-link-teachers-and-student-test-scores

Democrats supporting this should be ashamed of themselves.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Thanks. I just posted another CSM article on the topic.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2010/0817/Test-score-bomb-How-far-is-too-far-in-teacher-accountability-push

Presenting an honest case, and yes Democrats should not be supporting this.

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Blaming the teachers is sad and unfair. I will say I was
encouraged to see CNN have on a representative of teachers today. There needs to be more of that across the MSM,
whether that will happen enough to get the truth out, I have my doubts.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. Mr. Duncan's background is basketball and in that arena, all the
scores are published and coaches are hired or fired based on them. With race to the top, our schools are being tweaked to operate in that same capacity. I think that this competitiveness with scores is ok in moderation. Not focusing on learning but the measurement of the learning is what continues to bother me. I would much rather see the syllabus published for how much class time is being spent on different areas, and where students can go to receive additional assistance from those who are good at filling in the gaps.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
35. Wouldn't this be an HR evaluation, and thus protected by privacy laws?
It's illegal to make performance evaluations and anything connected to them public. Public employees are protected by these laws.
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cjbgreen Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Research
Independent researchers need to examine the study. It makes sense that effective teaching contributes to student success. But what is more complex is understanding what we mean by success, how that is measured, other variables etc. I hate the attack on teachers. I am not a union member. I am an educator. These attacks on teachers while failing to correct the underlying systemic issues hurts children. 1. They distract from the disastrous impact poverty has on children. Our children do not have health care, they do not have nutrition, they do not have environmental safety, many do not have homes. Much more is now known about the brain and the impact fear and nutrition has on the brain. Yes some children escape and many amazing educators find ways to help children learn. But many, sadly because of our leaders will continue to suffer. Blaming teachers is unethical, vile and worse destructive .

The argument that teachers do not want accountability is another lie and distraction. Most teachers celebrate the successes of their students and they want to know if their lessons work. I am not sure if I am more terrified by how big money is creating the propaganda to scapegoat a group of professionals from whom corporations want to steal or by the shamefulness of the simplistic and evil minds that ignore their responsibility for contributing to the impoverishment of children.
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zenj8 Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. If the scores are used to evaluate teachers,
then wouldn't they be subject to the same privacy rights as a person in a corporation and his/her performance evaluation? Would a newspaper ever print those? Maybe someone will sue over this?
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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. So when is Arne going have his "McNamara" moment?
Oh, that's right, just like before AFTER IT IS ALREADY DONE IT'S DAMAGE.

This is Union Busting and Serf-making in the guise of clearing out those who are supposedly "standing in the way of progress".
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
40. Arne Duncan is President Obama's Secretary of Education.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. I would rather see the school board salary and perks published.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
45. The assault on Teachers continues.
I had harbored some interest in starting a new career in teaching, but this kind of shit is making me rethink that idea.
I always thought that home schooling was the provenience of anti social religious wack jobs, but it seems more and more that that will be the only way to give kids a decent education after Arne, Gates and the rest finish off public education for good.

Keep the info flowing MadFloridian!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. I would not advise entering teaching right now. Lack of respect is huge.
Thanks for the kinds words.

I taught over 30 years, and I can not believe the way Democrats are insulting teachers. It was not even this bad during the Bush years, Spelling at least was not rude to teachers.

:hi:
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austin_democrat Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
47. My mom is a teacher outside of Houston...
I've grown up hearing her talk about how some years she will have a good group, some years not so good. She is a great educator, but she has had her share of failed students for different reasons. Some kids aren't meant for the structure of public schools. Some dont want to learn and have parents that could care less or don't even speak English.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
54. Hey Arne, why don't you sew the red letters on the teachers' shirts and blouses personally?
You worthless tool.
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