Ireland was an example of a neocon economic success just a few short years

[applegrove]

years ago. Now their economy is tanking. Will we see the press (MSM) doing a story on them now? I doubt it.

[izquierdista]

1. Neocon success

The first few participants in Ponzi scheme are an example of a neocon success, enticing the vast majority who will lose their shirt in the process.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. can you document that?

It was my understanding that when Europe went to a combined currency Germany had to simply give Ireland huge amounts of money to help them boost the value of their currency. This also devalued Germany's money so that the playing field was more even.


I am no expert but I don't think Ireland had some huge neocon success recently.

[applegrove]

7. Here is a wikipedia entry for the "Celtic Tiger".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger

They had a corporate tax rate of 10%. But it didn't last. It was a bubble like on the other neocon examples.

[wickerwoman]

8. Google "Celtic Tiger"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger

I lived in Ireland in 1993 and it's virtually unrecognizable to me now.

[Over Caffeinated]

3. How was it a neo-con success?

I googled it and the first hit I found, was this post.

I guess the NY Times is now considered "alternative media"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/business/global/29austerity.html

[applegrove]

5. Good for the New York Times. Now if only CNN would do a story on it.

[The Magistrate]

6. Try 'Celtic Tiger', Sir, If You Are Playing Google Games

They pretty much went the full 'Chicago boys' route in the mid-nineties and on till everybody hit the wall....

[applegrove]

9. Bush took the USA as far into a neocon economy as he could and that resulted

in bubbles too.

[Over Caffeinated]

10. I don't see how cutting taxes and opening up to trade is solely considered neoconservatism.

They also expanded their welfare state as their economy boomed (hardly neo-conservative). They also were the beneficiaries of bubbles, until they popped. Additionally, they were the recipient of much foreign direct investment.

I am just skeptical to label Ireland a "neo-con success story". Neo-cons do not have a monopoly on tax cuts or being open to trade, but perhaps I am overlooking something.

[The Magistrate]

11. Then Let Me Suggest, Sir, You Look a Bit Harder....

[Over Caffeinated]

13. If you are so confident, then enlighten me.

Additionally, tell me how neo-cons have a monopoly on tax cuts and being open to trade

[The Magistrate]

16. You Will Need To Pursue Enlightenment On Your Own, Sir

You are competing with many other things for my attention just now, and coming in a poor fifth at best....

[Over Caffeinated]

19. I see, but for someone with a vast knowledge on this subject, it

shouldn't be hard for you. Then again, you think the "Chicago boys" were neo-conservative with their economic ideology. In fact, they were neo-liberals. You are confusing them with the neo-cons, who also came out of Chicago and had an impact on modern day neo-conservatism foreign policy.

There is some overlap between neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism, but there are also some differences.
http://ptx.sagepub.com/content/34/6/690.full.pdf+html

One of the similarities is that both philosophies seek to weaken or completely dismantle the welfare state, something which Ireland did not do.

You can claim that you are doing 5 different things at once, but I simply do not believe you. In fact, I don't believe a word that you have said.

[applegrove]

14. Perhaps I labeled it wrong. What would you call it? A "conservative economy"?

I just think that cutting taxes and upping productivity and housing prices that way is what W. Bush did and he was a neocon.

[wickerwoman]

15. All of that foreign investment

went into new green field satellite towns around Dublin. They never invested in the infrastructure to service those areas (except by car) or in education to produce a large number of locals who could actually work in any of the new companies (Google, Ebay, etc. all have their European headquarters in Dublin). So those companies didn't hire the Irish (and they certainly didn't hire people displaced by the manufacturing jobs all migrating to Eastern Europe).

[virgogal]

4. What kind of story ? The EU had a lot to do with it's rise and fall,

according my to Irish friends.

[applegrove]

12. I'd like to see a story that goes into how neocon economies result in bubbles.

Because they are not investing in people. I know, I know other types of economies have bubbles. My point is that because neocons are so concerned with corporations, trade and productivity (and try to help that along with tax cuts) they lead to more volatility because Markets are volatile. Whereas an economy invested in education, infrastructure, and human capital as well as markets...is less vulnerable to such volatility. That is just the way the bubbles bounce.

volatility is fine if you are rich and can live off your savings for a few years. But it is not for the middle class or poor who have mortgages or live paycheck to paycheck.

[H2O Man]

17. "neocon"

has meaning, but not in any sense related to the Irish economy.

[applegrove]

20. What would you call a low corporate tax economy that is dependant on trade? Conservative?

Neoliberal?

[Starry Messenger]

18. I think the word you're looking for is "neoliberal"

Use that word and search for Ireland. I'm not seeing any news stories yet either, but there are some interesting articles.

[applegrove]

21. I thought neoliberal is simply the generic term for neocons

[Starry Messenger]

22. There's some overlap.

But neoliberal is the specific economic policy, while I believe neoconservatism also encompasses the PNAC foreign policy and social conservatism. Here's a bit of an overview of neoliberalism:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

What is Neoliberalism?
A Brief Definition for Activists

Neo-liberalism" is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer.

"Liberalism" can refer to political, economic, or even religious ideas. In the U.S. political liberalism has been a strategy to prevent social conflict. It is presented to poor and working people as progressive compared to conservative or Rightwing. Economic liberalism is different. Conservative politicians who say they hate "liberals" -- meaning the political type -- have no real problem with economic liberalism, including neoliberalism.


The main points of neo-liberalism include:

1.

THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.
2.

CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.
3.

DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on the job.
4.

PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.
5.

ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."