What's Wrong With Darrell Issa's Take On Immigration Reform....

[global1]

I heard him on the Rich Sanchez program (here's the link: http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bn_66AsOEs. I encourage you to listen to this whole segment before you comment.

He is advocating a "Guest Worker" program - in essence give the illegal immigrant the status of a "guest worker" but not put them in ahead of others that want to get into the country taking the legal path.

This seems reasonable to me. What's wrong with that idea? Go ahead DU - have at it.

[YvonneCa]

1. Are you familiar with Darryl Issa's political...

...history? I wouldn't trust him any further than I could throw him...

[global1]

5. Yes - I Am Aware Of Issa's Political Affiliiation.......

I don't agree with him on most things - but I did think his take on this made some sense. It seems to me that it is short of blanket amnesty to illegals and it could be set up with criteria for the current illegals to meet in order that they can gain the status of a 'guest worker'. After they comply - they are then legitimized to some extent and it could set them on a road to real citizenship.

I'm not for blanket amnesty and I'm not for deporting all. We need some sort of compromise and this seemed reasonable.

[YvonneCa]

14. Trouble is, he is 'borrowing'...

...and I use that term kindly...from what Democrats (and a few GOP members) have been saying for years. It's not new just because Issa decides to jump on the bandwagon now for his own political advantage. THAT's what Issa does. He's the reason for recalling Grey Davis in CA and installing Arnold. He wanted the job himself and didn't make it. He is not trustworthy.

[BootinUp]

2. This is not a serious proposal

Undocumented workers are not going to raise their hand and risk being separated from their families with no clear path to citizenship.

[Warpy]

3. It's Reagan all over again

The problem was that so many of them didn't return home at the end of the agricultural year because they found so many employers in the US eager for cheaper workers who were afraid to unionize.

Issa is wrong just like all conservatives in both parties are wrong because the way to tackle the problem is to go after the employers. Once they are facing substantial fines and jail time for the worst offenders, they'll dry those jobs up fast. With no alternatives to the agriculture work we so desperately need them for, the guest worker would be more likely to return home on schedule.

Without enforcement of laws against scumbucket employers, no guest program will do a thing but increase the number of workers who are in this country illegally, driving wages down and busting unions.

That's the problem, right there. Issa is a dreamer who thinks the problem is the poor people who are desperate to escape poverty when the real problem is the exploitative employers who recruit them in Mexico, transport them all over the country, and use them to destroy legal labor.

Republicans are always wrong about this because they're in deep denial about the true source of the problem.

[global1]

4. Thanks - Your Take On This Makes Sense.........

but can the problem be attacked from both ends? Go after the employers as you suggest and still develop a 'guest worker' program. This gives those illegals the ability to stay on their job in a legal fashion. Set up some criteria for them to have to learn English, pay taxes, etc - begin the process of legitimizing them and put them on a path to citizenship. Those that don't comply to the criteria - like Sanchez says - kick there asses out of the country. This might be a good compromise and get us off the amnesty issue. Just a thought.

[BootinUp]

6. Of course

but people in DC are not interested in compromise.

[Warpy]

11. Personally, I think people who have been here illegally

worked hard, and put down roots in the community should be given an expedited path to a green card but never citizenship. They should never become citizens because they broke the law to get here. However, it's in our best interest to keep them from being exploited and the permanent legal worker status will do that.

Anyone here under 5 years needs to go back, period. Anyone who breaks laws while here needs to serve his or her sentence and then go back.

Any children born to either group while in the US will have dual citizenship and can exercise a preference at the age of 18, whether or not their parents were deported and they with them. The constitution is very clear about that.

Guest worker programs will work only when the jobs are specified very carefully and things like the abuse of the HB-1 visa program are prevented. Only with vigorous prosecution of exploitative employers will any of it work.

[global1]

13. Great - Then There Is Hope That If Such A Program Is Set Up Correctly And Enforced That.......

it can work. It appears that you are not totally against such a program - that it's possible that such a program could work if it is done properly.

I hadn't thought about your idea of giving an 'expedited path to a green card but never citizenship'. I guess I'm not really sure what a green card means. I am a little taken aback by your saying 'they should never become citizens because they broke the law to get here'. Yes they did I agree with you there - but - I think about other people that broke other laws and are given a sentence like 'community service', 'jail time', etc - but with a chance to rehabilitate themselves and become a contributing member of their community after they serve their sentence out. Isn't there a chance for a current illegal to rehabilitate themselves and be put back on a path of citizenship? Seems to me that in a just society that we can accept people that have
paid their penance and forgive them?

Again - I go back to your original post and agree with you that something needs to be done to the employers. I've always felt that they were the crux of the problem we have.

[sweetloukillbot]

16. I agree with you 100%. But that won't make the "amnesty issue" go away.

To the anti-immigration crowd anything that doesn't result in deportation is amnesty - so the fines and penalties are automatically opposed. At least that's the rhetoric in AZ. And not just from the racists, I've heard any plan based on fines and penalties called amnesty by local editorial writers opposed to SB1070.

[Traveling_Home]

8. I miss a lot of your points I think - here's one you could help on

"Without enforcement of laws against scumbucket employers, no guest program will do a thing but increase the number of workers who are in this country illegally, driving wages down and busting unions."

A guest worker program means they can legally come to this country for work and all regular US wage scales must be followed in paying them. Employers who need workers for jobs Americans won't take can legally hire them; the guest worker can legally work. Taxes are paid.

[Warpy]

9. While minimum wage is so artificially low, not supporting a single worker,

that will have the effect of making all jobs minimum wage jobs.

Why pay a premium when you can get a Mexican to work for the rock bottom wage? Why hire an American at rock bottom wage when you know someone from Central America, Eastern Europe or Asia will work at least as hard for less money and be afraid to unionize?

Are you getting this yet? The problem lies with employers who are trying to drive wages to rock bottom and bust unions.

Your talking point, right out of the right wing playbook, is that there are jobs Americans won't take. Americans will take any job out there when it pays enough for them to live on.

The proof? Remember the mid 00s? There was a sweep of a chicken processing plant and all the people working illegally were scooped up and deported. The plant owner, desperate to stay open, raised the hourly wage by a dollar. He was inundated by applications from local people and had absolutely no trouble achieving full staffing within a month.

Are you getting this yet? Will you ever get this?

One plant that was swept: http://www.alipac.us/article3613.html

Wage increases at Crider lead to applications from US workers: http://www.neutralsource.org/content/blog/detail/790/ This article notes there is high turnover because people complain about working conditions, something illegals would never do. Either a company has to address those complaints or absorb the cost of training a lot of new employees.

However, the canard that there are jobs Americans won't do is both ignorant and insulting. Americans just won't do them for free, which is what every employer secretly wants.

[Unvanguard]

7. Sorry, I'm not too fond of institutionalized legal stratification. n/t

[grantcart]

10. guest worker programs are fine for transient temporary jobs like agricultural harvesting

The problem is that he is trying to use it to address people who have been a permanent part of the landscape for 10 or 20 years.


Its UnAmerican.


When AZ was the fastest growing state of the Union, which it shared with NV for about a decade, it couldn't get enough brown bodies to build its homes, pick its crops and man its businesses.


Now that things are down they want to kick the people on the bottom.


Its disgusting. America at its worst.


When Issa starts talking about tearing down homes built with 'illegal alien' labor or attaching profits made from 'illegal alien' labor than I will listen to his tape.


This is nothing more than a cynical attempt to use a wedge issue to divide Americans and kick the people that are at the bottom of the economic ladder.


Issa doesn't really want a solution he is simply smarter than the rest of the idiot Republicans who show up with nothing in their hands. Atleast Issa has the brains to realize that simply yelling no all of the time isn't going to work.

[global1]

12. I'm Not So Sure I Understand Your Thought Here.......

how is setting up a 'guest worker' program 'kicking people on the bottom'? Look - let's take Darrell Issa out of this. Let's just analyze a 'guest worker' program for what it is. What would satisfy you in order to make the idea of a 'guest worker' program work as part of a solution for this immigration issue?

In the clip that I originally posted - there was nothing in it about Issa as you indicate talking about 'tearing down homes built with 'illegal alien' labor or attaching profits made from 'illegal alien' labor'. I don't know where that came from and I agree with you that that is reprehensible.

But get back to just the idea of setting up a 'guest worker' program. Can something like this - if set up right - with criteria for becoming a 'guest worker'- could it work?

[grantcart]

17. lets go over this one point at a time

Guest worker jobs are fine for temporary jobs like picking apples where the workers are doing a job that is temporary in nature.


It does not fit the 10 million undocumented workers who work in permanent jobs and have been contributing to the economy for 10 years and live in hybrid families that include American citizens, which is the vast majority of such families.



Guest worker programs work. They are used extensively in Europe. The problem still exists in places like Germany where Turkish workers (in the millions) come to work as 'guest workers' over long periods of time and don't get resident status. We have guest worker programs in the US. Go to Yuma and watch the buses come across the border by the hundreds at 5 in the morning and watch them return at night. Yuma is ground zero for Border Patrol, Customs and ICE so it is rather impossible to have undocumented workers pick these fields that are sometimes across the street from a Border Patrol station, so when the system requires it we have guest workers.


In San Diego every kitchen, including ethnic restaurants like Japanese and Thai, is filled with undocumented workers many who have lived her for 5 years or more.



The point about the houses and the profit is this: The Republicans are being cynically dishonest about their being upset about undocumented aliens simply because they are illegal. You don't see them going after the companies that benefit from illegal aliens do you? They don't demand that a home built with illegal labor is illegal and needs to be torn down. They don't say that companies that prosper from illegal labor should surrender 'illegal' profits do they. Compare that to illegal drug assets. If you have an asset that has been acquired by illegal drug trafficing then that house or car can be seized.


When the economy was good AZ wanted as much undocumented labor it could get so that it could maximize profits. Now that their political right wing has gone crazy (when was the last time that the standard bearer of a party has had to fight for his life in a primary after he was the party's nominee for President?) they are going anti immigration simply to save themselves from primary challenges.


Look at Senator Bennett from Utah. One of the most conservative Senators in the history of the Senate and he loses in a primary fight, he can't even get his name on the ballot.


Take Senator Snowe. She said that she would vote for the HCR if they would put a 'trigger' on the public option. They take out the public option all together and she still votes against it, simply because she doesn't want a primary challenger.


Take Senator Grassley. He was deep into the negotiations for the HCR and then Tea Partiers told him if he voted for it they would primary him out. He said that if the Senate Finance Committee voted for every single one of his ammendments he would still vote against the bill.



Last Congress 12 Republican Senators voted for comprehensive immigration reform, now not one will.


Governor Brewster had a serious primary threat until the AZ law was passed. Now she is running unopposed.


All of the Republican talk on immigration is an obvious attempt to stop from being attacked by Tea Baggers on spending and other issues, and it is working. Since AZ passed the law the Tea Party has lost its TV cable time to stories about immigration.


But it is much more cynacle than simply raising the issue of immigration only in a down economy. The law in AZ was so poorly written that they knew that it would be thrown out by the courts but they could still say that they tried, when in fact they don't want the law enforced.


Issa is smarter than the rest of the Republicans only to the extent that he knows he has to say something so that he brings up Guest Worker programs. Guest Worker programs would be and effective answer to the approximately 250,000 farm workers who work as temporary workers going from crop to crop without their families. Guest worker programs do not provide any answer for the millions of undocumented workers who live and work in the same community for long periods of times and have families. Issa knows that.


All Republicans have to do to support an answer to the problem is to support the bi partisian legislation that bears the name of their last Presidential candidate, McCain. Sadly McCain has lost his courage and he won't support the bill that bears his own name.

[pinboy3niner]

15. +1000

This is a political ploy to give the APPEARANCE of offering a constructive solution. But his 'solution' is ridiculous on its face.

He's proposing that a worker--say, from Mexico--can live and work here legally as a "guest" while the economy is humming along well enough to provide the job. If times worsen and the job dries up, the guest worker is required to go "home" to Mexico and wait to re-apply for work when the jobs come back--even if the individual has lived and worked here for 5, 10, 15 years. What a deal! You get to live in perpetual uncertainty about when, and for how long, you're going to get kicked out of the country that you've made your home.

You pegged it, grantcart--it's just another cynical Issa ploy.