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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:23 PM
Original message
US students rank 25th out of 30 in math proficiency
Edited on Fri Jul-30-10 12:27 PM by malaise
21st out of 30 in science.
White House Report.

Bravo Creationists - :yourock:
Go fuck yourselves.

correct figure
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. It must be one of those students who reported the science ranking:
21st out of 20. ;-)
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Bwaaaaaaaaah
:rofl:
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Eh, that seems too high.
:evilgrin:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. we can thank those home schoolers and charter schools, but the bulk of blame
goes to an old system still in place...and underfunded too...
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jemsan Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. My home schooled daughter is a ...
senior honor student at UC Berkeley. Why blame home schoolers?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. because your ndaughter nis an exception....there is proof homeschoolers are under educated
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Timmeh Tebow comes to mind...n/t
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jemsan Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. What proof?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Its all over the net....charter schools suck for the most part
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
44. uh - no, they don't.
:rofl: @ "all over the net" . . .

it's "all over the net" that "sarah palin is a wonderful erudite future candidate for the White House". it's "all over the net" that Glenn Beck is a saint and that Limbaugh is the best damn journalist in the world and that FOX NEWS is FAIR AND BALANCED.

"all over the net", my @ss...

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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. so where's your "proof"? n/t
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
55. Where?
the last few years hasn't the national spelling and geography bees been won by home schooled kids
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. ok, here is my question...
The average public school district in America spends $10,864.00/student/yr.

The average parochial school is $7,786.00/student/yr.

The average private school(this does not include charters) is $10,233.00/student/yr.

And yet we always fall back on the bromide that public education is underfunded, why is it that we can never debate the relative merits of how money is spent, and what is achieved?

I would argue that public school adiminstrations waste more money than private, secular or parochial. Take for instance new schools. You very rarely see private schools erecting new $80,000,000 high schools every 30- 40 years.
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Boy my typing sucks!
should have been administrations
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Here's a partial answer
public schools are required to accept all students so compared to private schools have a disproportionate number of special education and high needs students, including the behaviorally challenged. They also, to some degree, pay their teachers a "living wage" while private school salaries are usually lower. They pay into the state pension fund.

Public school teachers are required to be certified, private school teachers are not always certified.

Public schools are subject to public oversight, private schools are not.

Public schools have sports, arts, and music programs that some private schools don't.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. awesome...thanks
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. While all of that is true...
none of it addresses the falling educational outcomes nationwide. I would love to hear what everyone thinks that is attributable to.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. The fall of the American family.
How is a child supposed to do well in school when mom and dad are both working 40-50 hours a week and still worried sick about whether they can pay their mortgage or their credit card debts?

How is a child supposed to learn when the child is sad because his dad is depressed and worried because dad lost his job?

How is a child supposed to do well in school when his parents can't afford to take him to do the doctor and fear losing their jobs if they stay home from work to take the child to the hospital when he has an earache?

How is a child supposed to learn when mom and dad are arguing every night and mom is terrified that dad will hurt her or the children?

How is a child supposed to learn when the child is permitted to watch TV until late into the night because mom and dad are just too tired, too burned out after a day of work, to make sure he is doing his homework?

How is a child supposed to learn when he has cable TV all to himself in his bedroom?

How is a child supposed to learn when dad can't help him understand his math homework because dad didn't do well in math either?

How is a child supposed to learn when his family never takes him to a museum or to a nature park and the family watches trash on TV but not educational programs?

How is a child supposed to learn to read when no one in his home reads and no one read to him when he was very small?

How is a child supposed to learn when his home fails him?
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. some of your homilies are surely
contributing factors, some are just that. Some are projecting your parental scenario upon the child. And none of those lines with the exception of the tv, are the norm in the majority of households, yet the majority of kids today graduate without basic civic knowledge.

81% can not place the civil war within the correct decade.

67% can not place it in the correct half century.

76% can not name the first 5 presidents

77% can not tell you who was the prime author of the Constitution.

91% can not tell you who, if anyone rode to warn the people that the British were coming!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. Do you think that charter schools will make children more
aware of our history and the organization of our government? I don't.

I learned these things mostly at home from my parents who loved history. When I went to school I learned additional details. But I went to high school in sht South, so my high school history course did not go beyond the Civil War -- at least not in depth.

My children did not have good civics classes -- high SAT scores, but very little understanding about how our government is organized.

I had a great government class in high school. We learned all about civil rights-- er, excuse me, states' rights. So, learning civics in school depends on how it is taught. Charter schools will not change this in my view.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Most private schools filter their student applicants...the public schools has to take in
the leftovers...including the comprehension challenged...the learning disorder pupils.....

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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. but that is a small
percentage of the total student body. It does not account for the lack of educational results.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. sure it does.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. I've lived in the UK, Austria, Germany and France.
My husband taught in schools in a couple of those countries.

They do not even try to educate all children in science and other academic subjects through high school. I do not recall hearing about huge emphasis on high school sports in the schools. They had physical activities, but I don't think that sports competitions between schools were quite so important.

Back in the early 1980s, Austrians and Germans in particular were aware that they had serious environmental problems. They decided to deal with them. To do that, they had to honestly educate their children about the environment and about nature. I remember that my children were already learning things about this in the first years of grade school. And the newspapers, even the least sophisticated ones, conscientiously reported on the evidence of environmental damage in Europe.

Further, back in the early 1980s, Austria, for example, had already recognized that it had to lead in the field of very special technologies if it was to compete for jobs in the future. So, way back then, their government made a commitment to educate children in science and technology. That took a big change in attitudes. It was quite a challenge. I am pretty sure that Germany and France shared that thinking and also took up the challenge. I don't know about the
UK. They had to suffer through Thatcher as we suffered through Reagan.

In France, Germany and Austria, when we lived there, every child was permitted to go to three years of pre-school for a half day through the school year. Thanks to those three years, children were ready to sit still, pay attention, get along with teachers and other students and learn when they finally started school at -- six (6) -- (not five) years old. Children were not encouraged to learn the alphabet or read before they were six. They were encouraged to develop social skills and to tell and hear stories, keep their possessions in order, make things (learning orderly processes and gaining confidence) and enjoy being together.

The pre-school teachers were fantastic (with the exception of a nun in one of the public schools, yes, a nun in a public pre-school who was very frustrated and quit). They were extremely well trained and controlled their classrooms with great patience and confidence.

So, if we want to change American education, we need to look at what is being done in the countries in which children do better than ours appear to be doing. We may find that our children are doing better than these scores might suggest (that we are comparing apples and oranges). One thing I can say is that I never heard of the idea of charter schools in any of these countries. Schools were run by the national and local authorities as far as I could tell. There were some convent schools, but I did not hear of many children who attended them.

Children in European schools used to be on tracks according to their performance, their interests and their parents' choices.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. Well said.....and thanks for your above post re failin families
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #37
60. Excellent post
:hi:
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
47. A public school problem is teaching to the lowest common
denominator. When my 22 year old was in 3rd grade they had to STILL work on ABC's with some kids boring the rest to apathy. No discipline in public schools either, sleep, talk back, etc to teacher. If I had slept in class the teacher would have thrown something at me. Cursing and talking shit to teacher would have not had a good outcome. Consolidated,like big companies, schools took away a sense of community too.
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. you are right
in my kids school they still teach multiplication tables in the third grade. And in the 4th, 5th, and 6th if necessary. After that they require the use of a calculator.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Maybe the bulk of blame goes to the math publisher program du jour
Edited on Fri Jul-30-10 06:02 PM by lostnfound
I'm skeptical about the motivations of textbook design, especially the math curriculum. Instead of teaching the basics and the classical math sequence, they teach everything in a spiraling manner that bores the kids out of their minds and never trains them to focus and learn in an efficient way.

And those books are designed for reasons of profit, not learning.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
39. Right. My kids started school in Europe. The teachers drilled math
into their heads. The children were not bored. They just gained confidence. I'm not sure exactly how it was done, but I think that the children all spoke the answers and tables at the same time in response to questions and drills. Not sure about that, but I think that is what they were doing. I still have my kids' German math books. They were small and comfortable -- fit into a kid's hands really easily. Lots of bright colored pictures with blanks to write in your answers. Children had to do homework every day. Most of the mothers sat beside their children in the first grades as their children did homework. I did not need to do that because my children were very motivated. Besides they spoke and understood German better than I did although I was fluent.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. My home schooled son was doing partial differential equations..
in 9th grade.

So I guess you're right. Not having him and other bright home schooled kids to take the standardized tests probably did hurt the national average.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. that would be YOUR son...what of the others.....the vast majority couldn't do it
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. info on hs'ers (and no - not the "exceptions" - the rule...)
The last piece of major research looking at homeschool academic achievement was completed in 1998 by Dr. Lawrence Rudner. Rudner, a professor at the ERIC Clearinghouse, which is part of the University of Maryland, surveyed over 20,000 homeschooled students. His study, titled Home Schooling Works, discovered that homeschoolers (on average) scored about 30 percentile points higher than the national average on standardized achievement tests.

. . . Drawing from 15 independent testing services, the Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics included 11,739 homeschooled students from all 50 states who took three well-known tests—California Achievement Test, Iowa Tests of Basic Skills, and Stanford Achievement Test for the 2007–08 academic year. The Progress Report is the most comprehensive homeschool academic study ever completed.
The Results

Overall the study showed significant advances in homeschool academic achievement as well as revealing that issues such as student gender, parents’ education level, and family income had little bearing on the results of homeschooled students.

National Average Percentile Scores
Subtest........Homeschool........Public School
Reading............89................50
Language...........84................50
Math...............84................50
Science............86................50
Social Studies.....84................50
Core a.............88................50
Composite b........86................50

a. Core is a combination of Reading, Language, and Math.
b. Composite is a combination of all subtests that the student took on the test.


... There was little difference between the results of homeschooled boys and girls on core scores.

Boys—87th percentile
Girls—88th percentile


Household income had little impact on the results of homeschooled students.

$34,999 or less—85th percentile
$35,000–$49,999—86th percentile
$50,000–$69,999—86th percentile
$70,000 or more—89th percentile


The education level of the parents made a noticeable difference, but the homeschooled children of non-college educated parents still scored in the 83rd percentile, which is well above the national average.

Neither parent has a college degree—83rd percentile
One parent has a college degree—86th percentile
Both parents have a college degree—90th percentile


Whether either parent was a certified teacher did not matter.

Certified (i.e., either parent ever certified)—87th percentile
Not certified (i.e., neither parent ever certified)—88th percentile


Parental spending on home education made little difference.

Spent $600 or more on the student—89th percentile
Spent under $600 on the student—86th percentile


The extent of government regulation on homeschoolers did not affect the results.

Low state regulation—87th percentile
Medium state regulation—88th percentile
High state regulation—87th percentile

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/200908100.asp

*******


In a Class by Themselves

A wave of homeschoolers has reached the Farm--students with unconventional training and few formal credentials. What have they got that Stanford wants? And how do admission officers spot it?

by Christine Foster

. . . Among the nation's elite universities, Stanford has been one of the most eager to embrace them. Despite the uncertainties of admitting students with no transcripts or teacher recommendations, the University welcomes at least a handful every year. Stanford has found that the brightest homeschoolers bring a mix of unusual experiences, special motivation and intellectual independence that makes them a good bet to flourish on the Farm.

For the past two years, for instance, the University has tracked every application from a homeschooled student. These forms get flagged with a special code that lets reviewers find them among stacks of applications and helps admission officials chart emerging trends. Many top schools do not do this, including Harvard and Yale.

"I don't think anyone has caught on to the fact that these are such interesting kids," Reider says.

The latest Stanford numbers show a rise in homeschooler applications. In 1999, the first year of tracking, 15 applied. Four were admitted, and all four enrolled. In 2000, there were 35 applications, more than double the previous year's. Nine were accepted, and five, including Butler, started classes on the Farm this fall.

That's a tiny subgroup, just 0.2 percent of the applicant pool. So why is the University interested? Admission officers sum it up in two words: intellectual vitality.

It's hard to define, but they swear they know it when they see it. It's the spark, the passion, that sets the truly exceptional student--the one driven to pursue independent research and explore difficult concepts from a very early age--apart from your typical bright kid. Stanford wants students who have it.

Looking very closely at homeschoolers is one way to get more of those special minds, the admission office has discovered. As Reider explains it: "Homeschooled students may have a potential advantage over others in this, since they have consciously chosen and pursued an independent course of study."

Indeed, when he and his colleagues read applications last year, they gave the University's highest internal ranking for intellectual vitality to two of the nine homeschoolers admitted. And an astounding four homeschoolers earned the highest rating for math--something reserved for the top 1 to 2 percent of the applicant pool.

"The distinguishing factor is intellectual vitality," says Reider. "These kids have it, and everything they do is responding to it."


. . . NATURALLY, FAMILIES VARY in how they school their kids. Ross Hensley had a different experience--also self-styled, but decreasingly home-based. . . .

AMONG HOMESCHOOLERS who end up at Stanford, "self-teaching" is a common thread. Parents usually teach in the early grades, assigning and correcting work, but later shift to a supervisory role, spending more time tracking down books and mentors. Stanford-bound homeschoolers typically take several college courses before they apply. The admission office encourages this, both to help with evaluation and to give students a taste of classroom learning before they arrive on the Farm.


. . . Linda Dobson, author of Homeschoolers' Success Stories (Prima Publishing, 2000) and news editor and columnist for Home Education Magazine, believes the very nature of homeschooling--requiring kids to be self-driven and to handle the details of their own education--can give these students an edge as freshmen. "It's not, 'I'm free now--I'm going to go to college and party,'" Dobson says. "These kids know what it's like to handle responsibility." http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2000/novdec/articles/homeschooling.html



*********


from wiki: In the last several decades, US colleges and universities have become increasingly open to accepting students from diverse backgrounds, including home-schooled students.<18> According to one source, homeschoolers have now matriculated at over 900 different colleges and universities, including institutions with highly selective standards of admission such as the US military academies, Rice University, Harvard University, Stanford University, Cornell University, Brown University, Dartmouth College, and Princeton University.<19>


****

MIT has a long history of admitting homeschooled students, and these students are successful and vibrant members of our community. http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/homeschooled_applicants_helpful_tips/index.shtml

********
DUKE UNIVERSITY -
Homeschooled students are encouraged to apply for admission and are eligible for all scholarships offered at Duke. . . Most homeschooled students admitted to Duke have followed varied curricula. We do not support or prefer any particular program. Some of our homeschooled applicants follow packaged curricula with outside evaluators, some enroll exclusively in local college classes, some teach themselves independently, some rely on their parents' instruction—but most offer a combination of different approaches. In an effort to encourage homeschoolers to choose the most appropriate individual academic path, we do not endorse any one pattern.

. . .The number of homeschooled students applying to Duke has steadily increased over the last several years. Each application is read very carefully, and if the Admissions Committee has questions about the information submitted, we will call the applicants themselves. For the past several years, homeschooled students have been admitted to Duke at a rate equal to or higher than that for the entire applicant pool. We hope that you may be among the next group of homeschoolers to apply.
http://www.admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/apply_homeschooled.html







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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. it's against du rules for me to say
what I'm thinking right now - but that's the biggest bunch of BS I've EVER read on here - and that's saying something.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. I remain a skeptic despite the evidence....besides, its all part of our social evolution
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. And this is attributable to what?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Why, unions, welfare queens in Cadillacs, and the gay agenda, of course!
:sarcasm:
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MAcciard Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. No, I asked a serious question, for debate...
Why has educational results in America fallen so far in the last 30 years? And you know as well as I that none of those crutches have anything to do with education.

So why?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. A serious answer
look at WHO controls the local PTA's, which also leads to what is taught in schools.

One of my local PTAs was taken over by RIGHT WING, religious nuts, who on a serious note wanted to scrap evolution and teach creation science, and of course we should not read on oh separation of church and state.

Then of course there is the lack of funding for education, and the ever so popular how we distribute money to the schools... so my local poor school is using fourth generation textbooks, while a well to do area is using first print books... same school district of course.

The general attitude against teachers and schools don't help.

And of course all the "reforms" that have made it more difficult to actually teach material and instead we are now teaching to the test.

This is the cliff's notes, of course.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. Because order and stability in American homes is lacking.
Edited on Sat Jul-31-10 02:41 AM by JDPriestly
I posted on this above. One thing that I am thinking may contribute is the fact that Europeans generally work fewer hours per week than their American counterparts. They have more time for their families. They take more time to eat together (at least they used to). Also, I suspect they still eat less fast food than Americans do although I'm sure they eat more of it than they did when I lived there.

Further, higher education is much less expensive here. But it is kind of a reward to the best students. At various stages in their education, better students, those who perform best in their academic subjects are rewarded with the opportunity to go into a better track than the students who don't perform quite as well in academics and those who really do not do well at all. So, there a certain prestige and recognition is awarded to children who pay attention and do well in school. Sports are less important in high school in Europe than here. My husband taught in junior high and high school in Europe but never taught at those levels in this country. So, I know a lot about the junior high and high school levels in Europe.

Cheating is more common and more accepted in certain European countries than it is here. You have to be a little careful about test scores because when we lived there we were told that there were certain tests that were given to adults that could only be passed by those who were willing to cheat. I never heard that to be the case in junior high or high school, but my husband had to deal with a situation in which every single student in one of his classes cheated -- every single one.

The culture may have changed. It may be that cheating is no longer so acceptable.

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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hooray for New Math!
New-ew-ew Math.
It won't do you a bit of good to review math.
It's so simple,
So very simple,
That only a child can do it!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
59. it is horrible. what they do to simple addition of multiple columns.... jeeezus. nt
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Instead of developing "uniquely American" ways to race to the top...
Why doesn't the US just look abroad a bit at successful practices?






(Same goes for health care)
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because they aren't allowed to LEARN it.
They just memorize and go on.

Before all the testing frenzy started, I remember an interesting article about math, which posited (correctly, in my opinion) that students needed to refresh themselves on math skills before moving on the the next subject (example: when you start your Algebra II class, you begin with a refresher of Algebra I). While this might slow the pace, the skills are actually learned.

The way they do it now, it's a wonder anyone learns anything.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
41. The fundamental math concepts must be memorized. They must
be repeated over and over.

My daughter was a math whiz. She studied a math-related subject in college and tutored children in math. She had learned her first couple of years of math in a European public school and told me that the problem with the students she was tutoring was that they did not know their basic math facts. You have to repeat your tables over and over and over and over. There is nothing innovative about that. It's the way you learn math. Once you have your tables under your belt and you know them so well that it is second nature, then you go to math concepts. That's how math should be taught.

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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. one small caveat -
that does not hold true for ALL children... you might want to look into dyscalcula (also spelled dyscalculia) -

many people who suffer from this LD are incapable of "memorizing math facts" in the traditional way. Typically they excel in math concepts and "test poorly" in math computation.

My son taught himself multiplication when he was four, he's 16 and to this day cannot say his "times tables" - the numbers get jumbled up when he tries to do it that way.

Many great mathematicians suffer from this malady - it is suspected that Einstein was one of them. Great at concepts, shaky at computing. He always had others "check his math"


http://www.ldonline.org/article/Dyscalculia



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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. It seems like those numbers were better before we started the faith and market based "reforms"
to supposedly ensure we would by whatever year be #1

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Ding ding
we have a winner
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. I blame "religion" and the idiots who hate science of all sorts because it
"goes against the bible".

As the US slides further down the economic ladder compared to other nations, I wonder how much help the right wing "religious" will be to all those who suffer because of it, and how much help they will be to try to maintain our country's standard of living...

Or will they all be waiting for jeezez to fix all our self created problems and wipe our ass for us...


mark
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Evasporque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. the other five countries do not have "numbers"....nt
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
56. LOL !!!!!!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. It is not just creationists
but a general attitude against schools, not funding schools and reforms that have failed, utterly failed.

BRAVO....

I wonder, if I manage to get a jig teaching freshmen and fresh women history... how many times will I hit my head against the wall?

I suspect a few times... and the kids are not to blame either.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. I can count to potato. n/t
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
34. So that's like the top 10 % right?
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
35. Hey, we're ranked in the Top 25! Woo-hoo!
n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. What percentage of children of the tested age were tested in the US?
And what percentage of the children in the other countries were tested? If you test 90% of American children and the top 20% of German children, you will get a huge difference in test scores.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
45. i don't understand why you take any education stats coming out of the white house at face value.
the last two admins (at least) have a vested interest in destroying schools.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
46. These results are fine, considering that these skills go largely ignored in the US business culture.
Teach those kids to schmooze, they're going to need it.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
53. We need to spend more money on war. We need a greater gap between the rich and the poor. That's the
Edited on Sat Jul-31-10 08:54 AM by Karmadillo
solution guaranteed to improve these results.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
57. Thanks to the fucktard religious right....We've become a nation of Witch Doctors.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
58. Where did you get these stats?
Edited on Sat Jul-31-10 09:19 AM by Regret My New Name
I found some very close matches in a wikipedia article on the TIMSS, but I don't know how accurate those are based on some other tables I saw about the same study. http://nces.ed.gov/timss/table07_1.asp (most others use these values)

Any idea where the 24th(25th here) and 21st place is coming from? What study?

*edit... was it this? then http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2006highlights.asp

ahh yeah... http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2008016

:D
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-31-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
62. Awesome! That means we're in the top 7%!!!!!
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