Kerry says he mishandled furor over yacht taxes

[cal04]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_re_us/us_kerry_yacht

Sen. John Kerry says he always intended to pay taxes in Massachusetts on his $7 million yacht but concedes he mishandled the public furor over his decision to dock the vessel in tax-free Rhode Island.

Kerry tells The Boston Globe that he doesn't believe he dealt with the issue quickly enough or effectively enough. He added that he did nothing legally wrong.

The Democrat moved to end the controversy this week by saying he would write Massachusetts a check for about $500,000, whether he owed the money or not. He told The Associated Press that he and his wife "have always complied with tax laws."



Kerry says he always intended to pay tax
Declares he has not yet taken final ownership of yacht
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/07/30/kerry_says_he_always_intended_to_pay_tax/

[Mika]

1. Doesn't everybody wait to take possession of their multi million $ yacht before paying tax on it?

Everyone I know does. :eyes:

---

[diveguy]

2. just like any other millionaire

He's gonna at least try to keep from paying their taxes

[blm]

3. Evidently YOU bought the RW spin. He's doing this to end a RW spun distraction.

There was NEVER a controversy over the Heinz Co owned yacht until Murdoch's paper manufactured it into one for Kerry.

[diveguy]

4. why would he have possession of a corporate owned yacht?

No really. i haven't gotten that far into the story.

I am just not that fond of corporate sponsored millionaire politicians. right or left.

[blm]

6. He doesn't, it's media spinning THK's money, who also spends many millions on health clinics

and environmental projects, including the funding of pilot programs for universal healthcare in a number of cities across the country (betcha didn't know that)...yet, corpmedia only seems to find ink for MANUFACTURED CONTROVERSIES against Kerry as constructed by the RW machine.

[Obamanaut]

7. More than 200 millionaires in congress. That's a much greater

percentage of millionaires in that group than in the US general population.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5553408-503544.html

[boston bean]

9. the news here in MA and the people in MA know this for what it is.

Kerry was trying to avoid having to pay the tax.

And we have many shipyards here in MA that could have handled "repairs".

[ProSense]

11. Really? Did he buy the boat in Mass?

Kerry's detractors are never going to change their minds, but you can best believe anyone who supports the Senator isn't going to be swayed by this RW bullshit.

[Lance_Boyle]

19. If I buy a car in sales-tax-free TN and bring it home to NC, I owe NC sales tax on it.

Honestly, the lengths to which some of you will go to defend a millionaire who got busted trying to dodge his taxes are astonishing.

[MajorChode]

27. The laws aren't the same for things like boats and aircraft

Each state is different as far as how they handle such things. If Mass decides not to tax their residents for a boat purchased and berthed out of state, that is their business. If the people of Mass have a problem with that policy, they can petition their state legislature for change. Blaming someone for legally avoiding taxes is absurd. Personally, I avoid all the taxes I can legally. Blaming someone else for doing the same would be just a bit hypocritical.

[boston bean]

52. Problem is, the law states that if you birth the boat within six months of the original

purchase, you owe the taxes.

Kerry's boat was birthed in MA well within the 6 months of the original purchase.

The law in in place to deter people from evading the MA sales tax.

[ProSense]

72. That is only if it's owned by a Mass resident. n/t

[boston bean]

86. John Kerry and Teresa own the Beacon Hill property together

and with John being Senator and all, it is his main residence.

Are they able to claim different states as their main residences for tax purposes.

I'm not a tax atty and I guess i don't know the answer.

[ProSense]

88. "I'm not a tax atty and I guess i don't know the answer."

And you don't apparently have all the facts. Yet you are insisting that Kerry was trying to evade taxes based on a story started by a RW rag.

[MajorChode]

82. I don't believe the law says that

I believe the law says if you use the boat in Mass waters for 60 consecutive days or more, you are liable for the sales and use taxes. That doesn't seem to fit Kerry's situation.

Registering Your Motorboat

You must have a Massachusetts Certificate of Number (boat registration) to operate a motorboat legally on Massachusetts waters. Exceptions to registration are:

Vessels without any kind of motor (unpowered canoes, sailboats, or kayaks)
Vessels properly registered in another state and using Massachusetts waters for 60 or fewer consecutive days
Vessels documented with the U.S. Coast Guard
(emphasis added)

http://www.boat-ed.com/ma/handbook/register.htm

I have no doubt Kerry berthed his boat in RI to avoid taxes. However, millions of people do similar things every single day and it's quite legal. If you spend any time around New England, and observe the boats there, you'll see hundreds of boats with Newport painted on them and I'm reasonably sure most of them are doing exactly what Kerry is doing. To single Kerry out for something that isn't in any way illegal is a bit absurd.

[boston bean]

87. I hear you, I am only discussing the avoidance of taxes.

I like how you kept it real.

[MajorChode]

Here's the way I see it

Use taxes like these are designed to reimburse the state for infrastructure needed to support that particular use. If Kerry is birthing his boat in another state most of the time, he is satisfying the requirements the state has established for such use tax. It doesn't really matter what his intentions are. I'm sure the state of Massachusetts knows what people are doing. If they wanted to close that loophole, they most certainly could.

I can certainly understand why people would take exception to wealthy people avoiding taxes, but the solution to that problem is to modify the tax code such that the vast majority of taxes are collected based on a system that taxes income progressively with few, if any exceptions. I don't see the solution as trying to shame people like Kerry into paying taxes they wouldn't otherwise legally owe.

[ProSense]

28. "the lengths to which some of you will go to defend a millionaire "

The lengths some people go to in buying into the RW lies without knowing all the facts is disgusting.

The boat was still not in Kerry's possession, it is registered to an LLC in PA, where his wife is a resident. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. He bought the boat in New Zealand

In other words: he out-sourced cutting American workers out of the deal. Chelsea Clinton's wedding expenses have been justified by some as a trickle-down stimulus but Sen Kerry forgot to include the luxury of that excuse in his luxury yacht.

Now by bailing on his taxes he's cheating the people of Massachusetts that revenue was mean to support.

[ProSense]

34. He bought the boat in RI

It was designed and purchased in RI. As for your buy America message, it's still his money and he did nothing illegal.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. Of course it's legal

That's how 10% of the country gets to control 70-plus percent of the wealth...because they make sure it is legal for them to do so. And they also make sure it is legal to step over homeless people as they walk from the limo to the airport to fly to tax-free RI where they park their $7 million yachts bought under a corporate name because the taxes are easier for corporations to write-off.

Of the legality, I have no doubts.

[ProSense]

41. Being rich is not illegal.

People win lotteries and become multimillionaires. People start small businesses and become millionaires. People pass on money to their children.

Being rich is not a crime. You can be envious of them, begrudge them their money, but it's not illegal.

I don't see people harping on the fact that Alan Grayon is worth $30 million. This is selective outrage, even more disgusting because it's being fanned by RW lies.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

55. When did being rich suddenly become a progressive virtue while

the poor still lack proper education, healthcare, housing, food and the other necessitites of life?

Dodging taxes is not a RW spin because no one on the right wants to see the Bush tax cuts expire, they want them extended. But Sen Kerry is going to demand those tax cuts expire while he went around dodging every tax he could because he had enough money to travel to lower-tax states to visit his corporately sheltered yacht.

The embarrassment here isn't what the RW says but the fact that Sen Kerry dodges his social obligations just like any other RW corporatist.

[ProSense]

76. When did buying into RW lies become one?

Are you saying people who are rich can't help to make this a better country?

Did FDR have to disown his fortunes to work on behalf of average Americans?

This has always been a ridiculous premise and it's simply used by people to attack those they don't like. Oh look at the liberal elitist. What BS.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

90. What lies? The senator took advantage of tax dodges.

Yes, they were legal but they were dodges nonetheless.

And when a RW takes advantage of those same didges they are--properly--called on their callous disregard for the people being hurt from the loss of tax revenue.

[ProSense]

91. The Senator doesn't own the boat.

You know, believe what you want. He paid the taxes and no one but the RW is pushing this story. The media reports now correctly state that he was not liable for the tax.

[blm]

95. RW manufactured a tax dodge and YOU bought their shit. That's the bottom line.

.

[blm]

100. What a horsepile - Teresa spends MILLIONS each year funding healthclinics for the poor in a number

of cities, and especially around Mass. She has also been funding PILOT PROGRAMS for universal healthcare around the country that are set up to prove that after a time universal healthcare will SAVE money in the long run. She's DOING with her money while others TALK and complain and spread RW rumors.

If YOU really cared half as much as you claim, you'd already be aware of these pilot programs and you wouldn't be making such uninformed attacks claiming Kerrys are 'dodging social obligations' like the hyperbolic RW echochamber.

[boston bean]

39. I'm not so sure about that.

He registered it in Rhode Island.

He didn't buy it there.

[ProSense]

43. Then you don't know the facts. n/t

[boston bean]

48. I just gave you the facts. refute them if you can.

I would be most interested.

[ProSense]

59. You don't know the

facts:

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

[boston bean]

62. Kerry says he will voluntarily do it, because if he didn't he would be forced to.

He purchased the boat from someone in Australia and registered it in RI, not MA.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. If I may...

The New Zealand ship builder who sold John Kerry his $7 million yacht, Isabel, defended the senior senator’s decision...

http://news.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view/20100730main_track_story/srvc=home&position=also

[ProSense]

68. If you may link to the RW rag who started this BS?

The boat was built in New Zealand, it was not purchase there. It was purchased through a RI company and designed by a RI firm.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

93. Yes, it was built NZ

And not in New England. Is the yacht industry in the US so robust in these economic times the Sen had no choice but to outsource US jobs so as to still make the autmun regalia circuit?

And yes, the boat was purchased through a RI company...because the taxes are more exploitative there.

Which, ironically, is our complaint.

Remember all the talk about the rich paying their fair share? Was it just talk? There's a reason MA has the taxes that it does: because it needs that money to support its citizens. Sen Kerry is stepping over the poor of MA to walk to his tax haven in RI.

[ProSense]

96. And there is no law against that.

You may not like it, but it isn't illegal.

Kerry pays the taxes he owes. He is not obligated to pay taxes he doesn't owe.

When Senator Kerry speaks out about Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, I'm sure you'll be right there accusing him of being rich.

[boston bean]

36. Yeah, I guess

my $500 dollar donation to him in 2004 was because I'm a RW bullshit artist.

[blm]

17. Baloney - the taxes weren't even DUE when the RW MANUFACTURED this attack. Boxer attacked Fiorina

for her two yachts so RW had to CREATE an attack back. Heinz Co out of Pittsburgh owns the boat, and its docked near Teresa's Newport home.

Anyone even casually aware of the Kerrys' personal lives knows they keep their finances separate. YOU, on the other hand, seem to NEED to echo the RW smear machine.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

25. Heinz Co out of Pittsburgh owns the boat?

The interview with Kerry posted down-thread sure sounds like the oat is for personal use.

[MajorChode]

29. The bulk of their fortune is hers

They keep their fortunes separate and always has. Kerry is worth a few million, his wife is worth far more. She also owns their aircraft which the wingnuts frequently use as target practice for their hypocritical cheap shots as well.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. I know she has most of the money.

I'm just wondering if Kerry put his foot in his mouth by saying the boat was purchased "for the family" when it was, in fact, purchased with corporate money. If that is the case, it sounds like another tax dodge for the uber wealthy.

[MajorChode]

56. I think it's a little of both

Kerry has stated the boat will be used for charter when it's not being used by them, which isn't unusual at all.

Either way as long as it's purchased and used legally, I don't see the problem. I take advantage of every tax law that benefits me personally. The vast majority of people do the same. If there's a problem with the tax laws, they should be changed. I don't think it's reasonable to fault Kerry on this one, especially when it can't be shown that he was even riding the line of what is and isn't legal tax wise. This is simply a right wing smear which was designed and orchestrated by the wingnut rag, Boston Herald.

[blm]

94. He's doing what he HAS to do to diffuse an attack that would draw his wife in yet again.

He's paying the taxes that technically he didn't even owe and weren't even due yet if the boat WAS under his ownership, which it wasn't.

[avaistheone1]

106. Your information makes a great deal of sense.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. Do the workers get to use the yacht

or just the owners?

[blm]

102. Probably executives and management, or worker incentives - btw, you do know that Heinz workers

are paid well, and have excellent healthcare plans and other benefits, don't you? That is why the company and the Heinz family are so highly respected by the community and the workers.

Surely you'd be aware of that by now if fair labor was an actual longtime concern of yours....right?

[Orsino]

5. Yes. By owning a yacht.

Once the right-wing media have an excuse to publicize that fact, there is no way to spin it positively.

[ProSense]

8. Here are excerpts from the interview

Excerpts from interview with John Kerry

<...>

On whether he was trying to dodge taxes by mooring the boat in Rhode Island

If you guys think that John Kerry doesn’t have enough sense of either propriety or common sense, that I’m going to be sailing my boat around Massachusetts where I’m highly recognizable but it’s going to somehow stay in Rhode Island and I’m going to avoid a tax, I’m nuts. I’d be crazy to think that I’m going to be doing that, and that was never our long term initiation here.”

On whether he reacted quickly enough

I don’t think I dealt with it fast enough, effectively enough. There’s nobody to blame but myself for that, and I’m not casting any fingers at anybody...I really didn’t register the notion of, ‘Oh my God if somebody says what’s it doing there now, why not do this.’ And then, boom, the issue came up before we completed the final working on the boat. My fault. We should have thought that through more effectively.

On buying a $7 million yacht

We signed the contact on Nov. 11, 2007. The stock market was at 13,500. Unemployment was at 4.5 percent. And we thought it was a good time to try to, for the long-term, for the family, make this investment....Now, within months afterwards, by middle of 2008, George Bush and Secretary Paulson were coming up here, screaming about the economy and we were in save the economy mode. Everybody got hit, everybody got hurt. Obviously we wouldn’t -- Teresa and I talked about it. There’s no way we would have signed a contract then. There’s no way.

On the appearance of wealth

Well wealthy is measured in different ways...I have been lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky in my life to always be comfortable...I really don’t think Massachusetts sits there and measures you by your pocket book, I think they measure you by what you do with your life. And I will stand comfortably, calmly, and comfortably behind things I vote for....Look, we don’t feel like we have anything, either of us, to apologize for, to people. Because you know, the happenstance of death and accident and tragedy leaves my wife with a certain amount of money. She’s still a human being who spends an amazing amount of time and energy, doing good for people and that’s not an excuse or anything else. She doesn’t have to apologize for wanting to have good moments on a sail boat with her family and she does enormous things for women’s health, for charity, for cancer...And in the last year she’s had a tough year, she’s fighting cancer, she’s been treated at Mass General and she’s been through the wringer. So I think she deserves, you know, peace and quiet, tranquility, and enjoyment of something she wanted to spend some money on. Period.

<...>

On whether he paid the taxes

As I sit here, we have fully paid the tax. It is in the hands of the commonwealth, the proper forms are filed, it’s done....Legally, I’m not compelled . But politically, and in terms of the perception, that is something that came at us unexpectedly before I had gotten to the point of doing what we needed to do. That’s the way it is, that’s the way life is sometimes. I’m not going to sit here and, you know -- I should have paid more attention and done it faster or whatever. I just didn’t think we had to.

<...>

Only RW hacks can figured out a way to give the impression that Kerry, a prominent U.S. Senator with a huge boat who the RW intentionally targets, was hiding in RI.

Yeah, that's likely.

[asdjrocky]

10. Gee, you think?

It's really hard to believe these fucking people.

[gratuitous]

12. "He added that he did nothing legally wrong."

If it works for crimes against humanity, it works for saving on taxes. And which one is really more likely to affect you and yours?

[MajorChode]

21. Docking a boat in RI is equivalent to "crimes against humanity"???

I'm not sure I can subscribe to that reasoning.

I don't blame anyone for legally saving money on taxes. If such things upset you, the blame belongs on the taxing authorities who allow such practices. I take all the deductions I am legally entitled to take. I don't blame someone else for doing the same, regardless of how much money they have.

[gratuitous]

22. Swing and a miss

The point I was making (and apparently making rather badly) is that the people who have worked so hard to make the Kerry boat thing into a controversy are the same folks who have been just fine with "enhanced interrogation techniques" "extraordinary rendition" and "concentration camps," all properly sanitized by a certain former president's personal attorney as being "legal." If they're fine with "legal" crimes against humanity, why are they so bent out of shape with (actually) legal actions to avoid a tax liability (which, as it turns out, Kerry isn't avoiding after all)?

[MajorChode]

24. That makes a bit more sense

Some people here seem to be faulting Kerry for nothing more than being able to afford a $7 million yacht and jumping on the wingnut smear machine's cheap shot. I mistook you for one of those.

Cheers!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Well, the super rich can't be expected to keep track of every boat and $500k they have lying around.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[UTUSN]

14. More important to me: He mishandled the Swiftbots, mishandled T.Boone PICKENS.... n/t

[ProSense]

15. And Kerry is still standing and doing great work

Some of the liars, not so much.

[UTUSN]

16. I'm glad to quote from your link, THANKS!1

Source: Talking Points Memo



SEC accuses Dallas investors of insider trading

SEC accuses Dallas investors Sam and Charles Wyly, attorney, stockbroker of insider trading

TERRY WALLACE
AP News

Jul 29, 2010 20:02 EDT

Famed Dallas billionaire investors Sam and Charles Wyly made $550 million in undisclosed profits through 13 years of insider trading in the shares of companies on whose boards they served, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission lawsuit filed Thursday.

In a 78-page complaint filed in a Manhattan federal court in New York, the SEC said the Wylys held and traded tens of millions of securities in the companies and "defrauded the investing public" by misrepresenting the Wylys' ownership and trading of those shares.

"The apparatus of the fraud was an elaborate sham system of trusts and subsidiary companies located in the Isle of Man and the Cayman Islands ... created by and at the direction of the Wylys," the SEC complaint stated.

....................

In March, Forbes magazine estimated Sam Wyly's net worth at $1 billion. He has given generously to Republican causes and candidates, including the Swift Boat campaign that helped re-elect President George W. Bush in 2004 by tarring his Democratic opponent, Sen. John Kerry.

Read more: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2010/07/sec_charg...

[blm]

18. What SHOULD be important to you is that Corpmedia REFUSED to broadcast Kerry's attack of Swifts and

his challenge to Bush to debate their services instead of hiding behind the lies of the swifts. Imagine if corpmedia deliberately refused to air Obama's speech on race after a month of airing RevWright videos- he wouldn't have survived the primaries - that is how dug in corpmedia was for Bush in 2004.

Assoon as corpmedia read the advance speech Kerry was giving to Firefighters Convention attacking Swifts and Bush, no news network would air the speech - in August - from the Dem nominee.

Why don't you figure out why the corpmedia would do something so aberrant...especially a speech at Firefighters Con after 9-11. And especially one that would attack swifts AND challenge Bush about their services.

Gee....couldn't be any news in that, eh? And Dems like YOU perpetuate the myth that Kerry never countered the swifts. Nice of YOU of all people to let corpmedia have the pass because they convinced YOU they were waiting as breathlessly as you were.

[UTUSN]

45. My Hero (you), I accept being schooled by you, which is something special, because

hardly anybody else can do it.

Now, my points:

1) I was unfailing in my support for JK, AS YOU KNOW, as I am for all Dem nominees.

2) I am a generalist and don't know all the micro-details of corpmedia and such: I consider myself one of the Unwashed Masses:: What FILTERS DOWN to me is what gets across to masses, and I'm telling you that (insert proverbs here: ) you've got to STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT, you've got to GRAB OPPORTUNITY BY THE FORELOCK. Whatever the forces of the power-mongers, the appropriate response AT THE TIME would have been to JUMP UP AND DOWN and throw HISSY FITS on every venue, to MARCH right up to the Swiftbots IN THEIR FACES and yell and scream. THAT was the response.

Now, YOU let me back in your good graces. I will never stop supporting Dems, OR Kerry, or GORE, but I will bang my head backseat driving and Monday quarterbacking about what COULD have been done better BESIDES crying in my beer about what WAS DONE to them!1


XOXOXOXOXOXO

[asdjrocky]

20. It's a fucking 7 million dollar boat.

Seriously, can anyone here relate to a 7 million dollar boat?

[ProSense]

26. Who cares if you can relate?

Can you related to $250,000? It's his money.

What the hell does whether or not you can relate to it have to do with the fact that he did nothing wrong and this is a RW smear?

[Obamanaut]

30. It is the Clinton's money for their daughter's wedding, yet right here

on this board there are posters with their panties all wadded up over the $2 million reported on the news outlets.

"But the Kerrys give money to chariteee" folks exclaim, as they justify the boat cost.

I think it's more a case of 'Clinton envy' than anything else.

[ProSense]

31. Who cares?

People need to stay out of people's personal lives if they're not breaking the law and it has nothing to do with their public lives.

Senator Ensign is under federal investigation for abusing his office, and people are spending time on RW drivel about a boat Kerry purchased under legal circumstances with his own money with no laws broken.

It's ridiculous.

[Obamanaut]

I think a lot of it is wealth envy. One family spending money on a boat,

and people complain. Another on a wedding, more complaints. A short time ago there were complaints about the new Clinton house. Complaints about the Gore carbon footprint.

Some will complain about the boat because they like Clinton more than Kerry, so Clinton gets a pass. Others like Kerry better, so the boat gets a pass. Still others will give a pass to a congressman who doesn't claim all his income to avoid taxes, saying it's the fault of his accountant - because they like that congressman, while casting aspersions on a cabinet member who bilked the IRS.

It's fun to read.

[dsc]

42. there is no equivalence between Clinton's wedding and this boat

since the issue was Kerry not paying taxes on the boat not the boat itself. All three of Kerry, Rangel, and Geitner deserve criticism for tax avoidance with Rangel and Geitner deserving even more scorn for the apparent illegality of their actions.

[ProSense]

47. Kerry was under no obligation to pay the tax.

Your defense of Clinton is noted, but the Clintons are not the models to hold up to attack Kerry.

[dsc]

51. He was under no obligation to pay the tax

which I actually don't think is true, but if it is, it only is because he did what we rightly criticise businesses for doing, avoiding taxes by registering their headquarters in tax havens. I think his bringing of the boat up to MA makes the notion he wasn't responsible for the tax dicey but admit to not being an expert. As to your other point, if the Clintons evade taxes I will be every bit as tough on them. I think for a liberal to be evading taxes with tax dodges as kerry did or though illegality as Rangel and Geitner did is hypocritical and extremely problamatic.

[FBaggins]

54. Sorry... which spin is it?

He always planned to keep the boat in MA and pay all required taxes on it... or he was under no obligation to pay the tax (which would only be the case if it was going to stay in RI) ?

[boston bean]

57. Kerry was under obligation to pay the tax because he docked the boat outside his

martha's vineyard vacay get away within six months of his original purchase.

[ProSense]

63. Wrong

As I sit here, we have fully paid the tax. It is in the hands of the commonwealth, the proper forms are filed, it’s done....Legally, I’m not compelled (to pay the taxes now). But politically, and in terms of the perception, that is something that came at us unexpectedly before I had gotten to the point of doing what we needed to do. That’s the way it is, that’s the way life is sometimes. I’m not going to sit here and, you know -- I should have paid more attention and done it faster or whatever. I just didn’t think we had to.

link

[boston bean]

64. Duh! he has paid the taxes now. That doesn't mean they weren't trying to evade them earlier.

[ProSense]

66. That's right,

facts are a pesky thing when one is trying to justify RW lies.

[boston bean]

71. well atleast we are in agreement that he paid the taxes even though he would have preferred to evade

them.

[ProSense]

74. No, we didn't agree on shit. n/t

[Obamanaut]

75. That is the same answer we heard with Geithner, Rangel, et al. nt

[ProSense]

78. Kerry did not do anything illegal or unethical.

To put him in the same category as Geithner and Rangel is utterly disingenuous.

[Obamanaut]

103. I put him in a different category before I put him in the same one. nt

[Green_Lantern]

108. if this story hadn't come out according to his own words

I doubt he would've paid tax.

[Green_Lantern]

107. the Mass. Dept of Revenue will decide that...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/23/john-kerry-saves-500000-b_n_656985.html">A Department of Revenue spokesman said Kerry would be liable for Massachusetts taxes if he berthed the boat in the Bay State within six months of its purchase. If the "Isabel" were brought to Massachusetts after that period, the state would have to decide if it wanted to pursue the taxes.

[Obamanaut]

73. There may well be no equivalence, but there were two distinct factions.

One group said it is the Clinton's money to do with what they will, while other bemoaned the expense and pointed out other less extravagant weddings.

Same with the boat. One group says there should not be such an expenditure during these times when millions are homeless/jobless, and the others will say either it is a corporate expense or it is his wife's money so it doesn't count.

Two sides. For one side Clinton can do no wrong and the money is theirs to do with as they wish, for the other Kerry.

As for me, it is interesting to read the justifications for either/both.

[dsc]

79. that is baldly false as to my posts and others in this thread

Frankly he could spend 50 million on the boat if that is what he wanted to do. For me it is the avoidance of the taxes that is the issue and the only issue that matters. Similarly if Clinton evades taxes you will see me condemning him so fast your head would spin.

[Green_Lantern]

104. so should the Dept of Revenue not even investigate this?

Staying out of Kerry or anyone's personal doesn't mean they can't face tax audits.

[asdjrocky]

44. Yeah, okay.

Who cares if I can relate to the representatives that we vote for?

Reprehensible.

[ProSense]

49. Oh please.

People seem to relate to Alan Grayson. Can you relate to $30 million?

Selective bullshit outrage.

[Green_Lantern]

109. I'm not worried about relating to politicians as much as I want..

Them to live by the same laws we do.

[slackmaster]

23. The people who are inclined to believe him will take him at his word

Those who are not, will not.

[SoCalDem]

37. As stupid as it is, he should have NEVER "apologized"

he should have just said:

"Look, as hard as it is for some of you to understand, my family DOES have money, and yes we bought a big boat...and we can choose to harbor it wherever we want to. Business people seem to understand how this works.....you place companies where they are financially advantageous, and last time we checked, Rhode Island was the best place to keep our boat..there IS a coastline there with mighty fine sailing, and boats are for sailing.. I WORK in DC, and am from (and represent) Massachussets, but there is NO law requiring me to keep my boat there"....

[boston bean]

40. He could have said that, but it would have been worse for him

He docked the boat in MA with in 6 months of his purchase.

the law in MA is that if you dock it in MA within 6 months of the purchase you owe the sales tax and excise tax.

[ProSense]

50. That is nonsense.

Kerry is not under any obligation to pay a tax for a boat owned by a PA company. None.

The six month period would only be applicable if and when he took ownership of the boat.

[boston bean]

60. So you are saying Teresa was under obligation.

The law is clear.

If it was docked in MA within six months of the original purchase taxes are owed.

The boat was docked in MA within six months of the original purchase.

[ProSense]

65. No, she is a resident of PA

There is nothing illegal about that. He ran for President and she was and still is a resident of PA.

[boston bean]

67. So, if they, he she or whoever were going to use the boat in MA they

are to pay the taxes. Yes he has paid them now.

why pay up now, after it becomes an issue?

People see it for what it is.

[ProSense]

69. When did the law change that a PA resident is liable for Mass taxes?

Kerry explained why: politically people are like predators.

[boston bean]

80. the minute they docked the boat off of Marha's Vineyard.

That's when they owed the taxes.

As far as I know, Teresa Kerry and John Kerry own property right here in Beacon Hill.

[ProSense]

81. Nonsense,

the boat is owned by the PA trust that manages Teresa's fund, and she is a PA resident.

[boston bean]

83. Really the beacon hill residence is owned by both and it is John Kerry's main residence.

[ProSense]

85. Is Teresa a resident of PA?

Yes, she is and there is nothing you can imagine to change that.

You also were provided with the law you keep misrepresenting and still, the fact that the boat is not in Kerry's name, means he was not liable for the tax.

[boston bean]

89. there is a presumption of use.

They still owe the taxes whether she live in PA of CA or wherever.

Point me to a link where it states that because Teresa is a PA resident that she doesn't owe the taxes to MA.

[ProSense]

92. Here

you were provided with what the law states

That and the fact that the boat isn't registered in Mass, isn't registered under Kerry's name, means you are pushing a RW lie.

[boston bean]

97. are you for real? that is for someone who wants to sail in MA waters

the boat isn't registered in MA. It is registered in RI.

So please point me to the tax law that states out of state residents aren't subject to the use tax?

[ProSense]

98. "point me to the tax law that states out of state residents aren't subject to the use tax?"

Oh brother.

Yeah, every person who owns a boat in this country and sails into Mass is liable for the tax.

Ridiculous.

[boston bean]

99. you can't right?

MA imposes a very stiff use tax (sales tax)and put in the law that if you birth it in MA within 6 months of the original purchase you owe the tax, to deter people from doing what John and Teresa Kerry did.

[ProSense]

101. Disingenuous much?

Exempt: Vessels properly registered in another state and using Massachusetts waters for 60 or fewer consecutive days

And that was provided in a direct response to you.

Now, how does this apply to Kerry when the boat, which is registered in RI and owned by a PA trust, sailed into Mass on a single day?

[upi402]

46. And some here probably donated to this guy

ha! suckers

[noamnety]

105. ouch

I learned my lesson, at least.

I'm not donating my salary to millionaires anymore. If they want the job bad enough, they can donate enough of their own money to be living like I do ... then we can talk about why I should be sacrificing my pay to ensure they get a $200k pension for life after 4 years work.

[deaniac21]

53. I can see at least 57 reasons to believe his story.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. Might really de-rail his Presidential campaign.

:hide:

[ProSense]

70. You'd think

that people have something to fear from Kerry the way the RW and their enablers attack him.

Let's face it, they still see him as a threat.

[PBS Poll-435]

77. Just more midterm election year bullshit

They will throw everything they got and all the things that they don't at the wall and see what sticks.


They will run out of material by mid-Sept and then that will be it.

[Greyhound]

84. I don't think that his breaking the law was ever in question, he didn't.

But this is indicative of just how different the world they live in is.
:kick:

Of course there are far worse people doing much worse things every day, so meh.

[Green_Lantern]

110. even if Kerry failed to pay these taxes I doubt it rises to level of

Impeachment.