It seems to me that liberals are in a "no win" situation.

[Spheric]

We are not allowed to try to change the party from within by holding feet to the fire and we are not allowed to move outside the party without inadvertently supporting the Republicans.

It seems that our only role is to support the party in every endeavor no matter how far right it decides to go. Have I got that right?

This is an honest attempt at dialog on how we can come to some sort of meeting place. What are your suggestions?

Have at it.

[Oregone]

1. A vote for a wayward cow is a vote for Republicans

Put it down. Just put it down already.

[unapatriciated]

29. .

:spank: :rofl:

[klook]

38. Don't let the cow in!

[YOY]

2. That sounds about right to me. The DLC provides both options. How caring!

They're just staving off the inevitable. Pathetic really.

[tridim]

3. You should probably watch this.

Barack Obama Video Address at Netroots Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvSF0OG1aZk

[Spheric]

12. That just makes me cry. /nt

[tridim]

22. He requested we do what you want.

And that made you cry?

Why?

[Spheric]

23. Because he didn't follow through. /nt

[tridim]

24. The speech is three days old

[Spheric]

27. You must have posted the wrong link. That speech is from the 2008 campaign. /nt

[tridim]

28. I did, Sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so-Uuooz-Zo&feature=player_embedded

[Spheric]

37. That doesn't help me that much.

It seems like a mixed message to me. First, I am given a list of accomplishments (more than a few of which should make liberals happy) that are presented in a sort of STFU mode of "I'm doing the best that I can."

Then I am told "What I'm asking you is to keep making your voices heard. To keep holding me accountable. To keep up the fight." Yeh, that's okay, too.

Except that I fought to get him elected. It didn't occur to me that I would have to fight him afterward. I naively believed that he would fight for me once he was in office.

I am asking what is the best way to hold him and other Democrats accountable (as he has asked me to do) for things like mandating by law that I pay for insurance that I will never be able to afford to use to companies whose criminal behavior is without doubt, for threatening to veto any bill that tries to bring the intelligence agencies that are spying on me under any kind of fiscal control or oversight, for setting up a commission to determine just how much more the government and corporations can get away with stealing from my future and my children's future before it backfires - the list goes on and on.

How do we liberals fight that?

[Chan790]

21. Underwhelming.

More of the same bullshit from the entrenched center-right leadership of the Democratic Party.

Lead right, blame left. Rule based on kleptocracy and fear. Pay no attention to the Wall Street fatcats behind the curtain. Everything is better with capitulation to RW talking points. How dare you fire on my flank, did you miss the part where I said "blame left"...you're supposed to be happy to be the scapegoat for my failings because the GOP is worse.

I want a primary challenge in 2012.

[BeatleBoot]

4. Talk about "No Win" Situations, How About Those Republicans

They got us into this mess of epic proportions.

Job Losses still happening because of their recklessness.

They are the ones who fucked everything up.

Republicans suck.

Epic Proportions.

[Spheric]

14. Yep. But people still vote for them. What's up with that?

[NorthCarolina]

5. That sizes up the conventional conservative think pretty handily. eom

[kiva]

6. Does seem that way.

The problem, IMO, is that we are considered useful every two years but actually exist all of the time and they can't shove us into the attic between elections.

On DU it's gone farther, and as the rhetoric heats up the statements have become more intense: you're with us or against us, why are you even posting here?, etc. I think that if people posted WHY they think X or Y (not just post talking points from other sources) the dialog would be more civil...but then, I'm a guilty of snark as the next poster, so what do I know?

[DireStrike]

7. Yeah, exactly.

Everything is what it is. It couldn't be different in any case. It is what it is BECAUSE what is is reality! By definition! Ergo! :sarcasm:

Be sensible!

[rucky]

8. The way I see it, it's inevitable that the country will move left. Eventually.

It may take years and years, but here are our possible paths:

1) We keep going the way we're going, and things start to improve for regular people, Democrats get more support and can push a more aggressive agenda.
2) We keep going the way we're going, and things don't start to improve for regular people. Republicans gain power & push their already aggressive agenda. We fall deeper into the shit until people are so oppressed that they radicalize. Not the imaginary fear, tea-party variety, but real movements. I think it has to get really really bad before that happens.

[TBF]

10. The country is left -

it's the politicians that are reactionary.

I see #2 happening, and unfortunately the tea-party movements are probably going to pick up speed unless something is done to help out normal folks. What we need are labor movements, and it would be great if democrats actually supported such a thing (labor I mean).

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Deep in history of labor

and you are correct... we need to re-fight some of those fights.

[Spheric]

16. God, that sucks. Is there anything we can do to stop that from happening?

Supporting labor seems like a good start.

[TBF]

20. The history is deep as Nadin said -

we used to be the base of the party. We've got to support labor, fight against privatization, probably actually get out from behind our keyboards and on to our feet (though I do recognize the power of the Internet)

The KKE are doing it in Greece with their protests: http://inter.kke.gr/

[Hippo_Tron]

25. The country isn't left when they are so easily frightened by left wing policies

When the same vast majority of people who support healthcare for everybody stop supporting it the minute you call it "socialized medicine", enacting it is incredibly difficult.

[Cant trust em]

9. The best shot for 3rd parties to take hold is through local government.

It's not going to happen at the national level for generations. But if its ever going to get some traction its going to be for city councils and boards of education first.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spheric]

13. I don't think that is working. Just my opinion. But, thanks for the suggestion. /nt

[laughingliberal]

17. If we keep voting for the current crop, they take it as approval for center right policies

...that don't work. If we don't vote for them, the Republicans win and institute their far right policies that don't work. Either way we get RW policies that don't work. Granted, the damage is faster with the far right than the center right but it all hurts us.

I, sadly, have no answers.

[Silent3]

18. You are "allowed" do to whatever you want

What strategically works best is another matter. Life doesn't provide you any guarantees you'll like your options, and exercising your options to express frustration and anger isn't guaranteed (or even likely) to improve your choices in the future.

But you're allowed to vote and donate, or not, as you please. No one here is obligated to cheer you on, however, or quietly refrain from commenting on the wisdom of whatever choices you make.

[Spheric]

19. Thank you. Yes, that should be obvious.

Any ideas on what works best strategically? It doesn't seem particularly productive to me to continue to feed the dog at the table when I want it to quit begging.

How do I throw my best effort at turning the direction we are currently headed in? Any advice?

[Silent3]

33. I don't know that there is a solution

Not supporting Democrats in the fall, either by not voting at all, or voting third party or write-in, will almost certainly give Republicans more near-term power. The results will go from bad to worse for liberal and progressive goals in the term term.

In the longer run, I strongly doubt that failure of Democrats in the coming elections will transmit any clearly-received message inspiring Democratic candidates to shift further left in response to their losses.

[lib2DaBone]

26. There are no more places for people to congregate and compare notes...

By design.. The unions are busted. The media is totally right wing.. and the world listens to Glenn Beck and Rush... it's an absolute recipe for failure.

The U.S. Military reports that they are so far ahead of their recruiting goals.. that they are done for the year. (Happy Joy Joy)

In the meantime.. there are no jobs at home.

Goldman Sachs.. J.P. Morgan, Timmy Geithner and Larry Summers... could give a fat rats ass about you or your family... (It's only business.. you understand)

And our great CIC.. Mr. Obamna.. where is he? Missing in action.. Well, last time I heard from him, he was busy kissing Lloyd Blankfein's ass, and screwing over his Base... (that would be you a nd I)

[mmonk]

30. That's at a minimum what it feels like.

It's because of an unappointed group that has decided it is the lone voice of Democratic Party policy and therefore is, as Harold Ford Jr. called it, "This is the incubator".

[EstimatedProphet]

31. I don't think most are against holding feet to the fire

But I do think people are against political self-absorption, i.e. "Obama has been in office for over a year, and the country still has problems!" Of course it does. The problems won't be resolved in his term, or in anyone's one term. It will take decades to fix this country.

[saracat]

32. I refuse to stop trying to reform the party from within, and I don't give a rats ass what some

think about that. I am still a Democrat and I have just as much right as any blind loyalist to try to influence the party. I may not always be sucessful but i am "entitled", yes I use that word, to try. I have voted Democrat for over thrity years, had family members run for office, contributed lots of money and I have earned the right to speak out, and I also think I have "earned" the right to have my positions listened to and not be referred to as a "lefty retard".

The Democratic Party owes me. I do not owe them. I had to "fight" several years ago to include reproductive choice in my state party platform as some "Democrats" thought including it would be "offensive to the GOP." Imagine that.The Democratic Party Platform might be "offensive" to the GOP!

I will continue to speak out when and wherever I think the Democratic Prty is wrong and I am both "entitled" to, and consider it my obligation. And I will continue to support only those Democrats who I feel best represent Democratic party principles.That is the only answer I have to this.

[unkachuck]

34. "What are your suggestions?"

....let your progressive conscience decide what you should do in November....it will become the right decision....

....you have to crack eggs to make an omlet....

[populistdriven]

35. all we need is for terrorists to destroy the sears tower

it worked for the republicans

[bvar22]

36. As soon as....

...the Working Class & the Poor (Democrats & Republicans) realize we have more in common with each other than we have with our political leaders of BOTH Parties, "CHANGE" will be unavoidable.

THAT is where the WORK is.