If you think that you live in the "Land of the Free" - you need to pull your head out of your ass.

[devilgrrl]

We are so fucking PWNED it is scary.

Seriously, travel outside of North America... you'll find that out... and it's disturbing.

I'm here in Germany - having a great time btw. Not one person I've talked to here doesn't think that Bush let 9/11 happen on purpose.

They all like Obama but think someone has a gun to his head and they are utterly perplexed that every US citizen does have access to health care.

Sure, they pay higher taxes but these people live... we don't.

Like the signs over the gates of many Nazi era concentration camps say "WORK WILL SET YOU FREE"

From Leipzig, Germany, this is devilgrrl signing off.

[aquart]

1. The Germans live.

Well, I'm just thrilled to hear it.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devilgrrl]

89. Much better than you in fact.

And they're a lot happier than you too! :hi:

[Forkboy]

100. Yes, all current Germans are still Nazis.

None deserve to live.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Love it!

I think this is A.W. - right? Loved your 'the Anti Leni R' post! :rofl:

[devilgrrl]

6. that would be me.

I visited the Nazi rally grounds in Nurnberg - very educational. To the point of having to skip some of because it was frightenly familiar with some of the shit that's been going on here the past 30 years.

[Jakes Progress]

102. When I went to the Holocaust Museum

in DC a few years back, I was more interested in the top floors (where the tour begins). On the floors below were the horrors of the camps. But on top was the story that would lead to the abomination that was Nazi Germany. I spent a lot of time on that floor, looking at the photographs, reading the papers. The chilling thing was how similar the headline were to what we get from the right wing now. At first they were dismissed as crazies. Then the underbelly of Germany was exposed as the hate and fear inherent in the Nazi message was proven to appeal to multitudes of Germans. Suppose Himler had had glen beck's talks show. How about breitbart as Goring? The hate and fear so palpable at America's tea parties and so evident in the popularity of AM talk radio hate-mongers is so very like the lead up to Hitler's rise to power. The photos of the Nazi rallies could have been taken at any of the tea party confabs.

Maybe Germany had to go through that horror to help them see themselves. It would be nice if we could avoid that.

[inna]

4. we are PWNED, that is exactly right. kr

[MineralMan]

5. Pull my head's WHAT out of my ass?

Couldn't resist...

[devilgrrl]

8. thanks - the keyboard I'm on is driving me nuts

headline fixed

[uncommon]

7. "heads" eom.

[devilgrrl]

10. corrected

eom

[uncommon]

34. :)

[Oregone]

9. You are free to buy a health insurance policy now

In fact, you are mandated to.

You are also free to pay the co-pays too, if you can afford it. Otherwise, you are free to die quickly

And thats a big fuckn deal

[devilgrrl]

12. Isn't it so awesomely free????

We so have it all.

[joeybee12]

11. Enjoy Germany! I love it there...

you're right, they see us for the fools we are.

[devilgrrl]

13. and they are 100% correct on that!

As if we learned anything from them?

Maybe we learned how to cover up our crimes against humanity.

[mitchum]

93. Lebensraum was inspired by the fate of the Native Americans...

the US just never owns up to its atrocities

[azul]

14. Delusional and isolated.

US Grows Isolated on Aggressive War

By Peter Dyer
July 28, 2010

Though the U.S. political/media establishment remains in denial, an international consensus is building that the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was a crime -- a profound and catastrophic violation of international law.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/072810a.html

[WinkyDink]

73. And that consensus would be 100% correct. The US committed a WAR CRIME, and the WAR CRIMINALS GO

FREE.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. Could not improve on that subject line.

:applause:

[Laura902]

16. I'd love to be in Germany right now.

Would you say that generally people are nicer and more polite there? I've never been but every Germain person I've met who has come over here for a visit has been very friendly.

[devilgrrl]

18. So far I have been very impressed with the Germans.

I also bothered to learn some Deutsch, which they whole heartedly appreciate!!! Yes, they are way cool! Two thumbs up for the Krauts! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Dappleganger]

44. I have a neighbor who's German...

married to a US vet. They are only here because of the kids and grandkids, but want to move back so badly. There aren't many liberals in our area so we have grown very attached to them. They are very giving, never want anything in return and don't like to fuss with my gushing w/gratitude when they leave fruit in a bag on our front porch. They also speak german to one another which I find so cute. She has more gnomes in her flower beds than you can shake a stick at.

[Triana]

17. I never harbored that particular delusion. n/t

[devilgrrl]

19. Sadly, you don't represent the majority of the population

eom

[Initech]

20. I'm starting to think the neocons don't get what the constitution stands for.

Really. They don't. I went to Germany last year - and you're absolutely correct.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. But, "Land of the free" and similar conceits are handy to justify wars against the eternal bogeyman.

[kenny blankenship]

22. Freedom in the US has de-evolved to mean only the freedom to amass wealth

However, most people are net debtors their whole life long, right up until they pay off their 99year mortgages and sell their house upon entering a retirement home. So even that freedom is, for most people, ironic and illusory. American style, capital "F" Freedom, then, is the right to be a debt slave unto death, and to receive help from no quarter.

[slay]

23. I've noticed the same thing

There really is no question when you talk to people in other countries that of course the Bush admin let 9/11 happen on purpose. Look at all the war profiteering they've been able to engage in. It allowed them to create a Big Brother state where everyone is afraid, all the time. And you even DARE to question the cover-up here on DU and straight to the 9/11 dungeon you go! I am amazed that people let them get away not only with allowing 9/11 to happen, but the cover-up as well.

Maybe I'll get lucky and find a nice foreign girl to marry so I can get the hell out of an America that I... don't even really recognize anymore. :(

[kctim]

24. You need to get out of CA more often

and try visiting other states instead of other countries. Having spent 10 years of my life in Germany, I can guarantee that it is I, not them, who is more "free."

[devilgrrl]

25. If you insist.

eom

[polly7]

26. How are they not as free? Just curious ...........

I've always wondered how much Germany has evolved in the last 6 decades.

[devilgrrl]

32. They evolved as we devolved

It´s as if we switched places.

[kctim]

33. First off

Germany is a beautiful country with great people and I am proud my roots lead back there. I am in no way knocking them or their way of life, its just not for me.
As with most European nations, their planned and controlled communities do not offer the freedom we have here in the states. You better have real good money if you want to buy land and build the house of your dreams or buy the new car of your dreams. They pay crazy taxes and they have to pay out the ass if they wish to make their own choices. They do not have a 2nd Amendment and have to either jump thru tons of hoops or sneak around. It may have changed in recent years, but they have censored speech.
I guess its a great place, if you dream small, enjoy paying high taxes, fear guns and aren't that concerned with free speech.

On the bright side, they have fantastic gardens, great food, lots of castles and absolutely beautiful views. Love VISITING there.

[truebrit71]

36. Wow...I can't believe what a steaming pile of grabage this post is..

..You have to have "real good money" ANYWHERE to build your "dream house". Those "Crazy taxes" mean that they don't have to pay out of the nose for a doctor's visit, prescriptions or hospital stays. They don't need a 2nd amendment. (IMHO no-one does) Speech is censored here or have you missed the last decade?

On the bright side they don't have a crooked Supreme Court, they don't live to work, they don't have Fux Noizze, and their fourth estate actaully functions...

So yeah..they're a damned site more free..

[kctim]

41. Talk about piles

I can build the house I want just about anywhere in the states for at least half the price it would cost in Germany.
I know what those crazy taxes are for, but we are talking about being more free and not having a choice in those matters makes them less free.
It is not up to you to decide if they need a 2nd Amendment or not. Again, we are talking about being more free and not having that choice makes them less free.
Yes, speech is somewhat censored here also, but until you are arrested for carrying a Nazi flag down mainstreet as you would be there, they are less free.
Their court is no better than ours. In fact, seeing how Germans do not have many of the individual rights we have, their courts actually rule against individual freedoms more so than ours.
I don't live to work. FOX has nothing to do with being free and is nothing but a weak excuse.

[truebrit71]

46. Why would you want to carry a nazi flag ANYWHERE? That makes you free? Really?

Why build a dream house when you have so many to choose from already?
YOU brought up the taxes. Glad no free health care in the US doesn't bother you. Love the idea that they would be more free if there was no free health care but a whole bunch of insurance plans they could pay to join? Really?
Men with penis issues buying guns in the US means we as whole are less free...
Name me the individual rights that Germans don't have, that we do.
Glad to hear that you get 8 weeks vacation a year, up to 12 months family leave for pregnancies, and enough money in the bank that long-term unemployment wouldn't destroy you.
FUX has EVERYTHING to do with the freedoms that are constantly under attack in this country and not knowing that demonstrates a weak understanding of the subject matter.

Seems to me you've swallowed a boatload of RW talking points and I think you haven't got a clue about what you're saying..

[kctim]

53. Yes, really

It is not that you would want to or why you would want to, it is that you are allowed to choose to or not.

Not everybodys dream house has already been built and one is not really free if they are only given false choices controlled by others.

Yes, I did bring up taxes because they pay alot more in taxes in order to have more things provided for them. That is not me disagreeing with them, that is the fact of how it is. In fact, I have no problem with their healthcare system at all, but individual freedoms are limited in order for them to have such a system.

You don't seem to understand the difference between one being free and one being given things for 'free.' Again, its not about wanting to pay for one because you already paying for the other anyway. Its about being able to pay for what YOU choose to pay for, or choose not to pay for. Really.

Penis issues or living in fear as you do have NOTHING to do with being free. Being able to choose if you want a gun or not is what being free is all about.

Speech, 2nd Amendment and the right to decide if you want health insurance and what kind you want, are ALL individual rights we enjoy that the Germans do not.

Our countries are way to different to compare them fairly. Our size, population, government, rights, economy, beliefs and cultures make it almost impossible.

FOX is nothing but a TV channel and I am not about to simply dismiss everybody who disagrees with me as being brainwashed by them. Doing so is childish and nothing but a cop out by those who refuse to acknowledge they do not know what is best for everybody.

Ah yes, now the RW talking points crap. Always happens when one cannot back up what they believe. Tell me, exactly what am I wrong about? How are the Germans, or any European, more free than us?
You're problem isn't that I haven't got a clue about what I am saying, it is that I know what I am talking about so I don't blindly accept you're reasoning as fact.

[truebrit71]

54. You still haven't answered the underlying question. What civil liberties do we have that they don't?

They have free speech, they have free health care, no-one should NEED to have a gun, so no, you haven't even begun to get close to proving your point.

You know why? You can't.

I am from Europe, born and raised, and you are, without doubt, talking out of your backside..

[pipi_k]

97. Not sure if this falls under the category of "civil liberty" or not, but...

it's illegal for them to home school their children.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3979558,00.html

And yeah...I'm well aware of the general attitude here with regards to home schooling.

But whatever people think of it, and all it implies, it's still something they are NOT allowed to do. So in that respect, they do not have freedom of educational choice there.

We do.

And this isn't even about amassing huge sums of wealth or sucking the hind tit of greedy corporations. This is about being able to make a choice for one's own children.

[Catherina]

75. Freedom is being allowed to carry a Nazi flag. What a talking point!

I can't believe I read such drivel on DU.

[fascisthunter]

38. you talk a lot of garbage... I know about Europe

all you are doing is perpetuating right wing xenophobia

[kctim]

43. I also know about Europe

so how about some facts showing where I am wrong, instead of just trying to label it as something bad because it does not fit into your little box of false dreams you may have about Europe?

[devilgrrl]

39. Europeans don´t seem a bit concerned with "the house" or "the car"

If that´s what it´s all about to you... :crazy:

Can´t take that with you when it´s over, now can you? I rather spend my dollars seeing the world and not buying stuff.

[kctim]

42. Very good point

but are they not concerned with such things because they really do not want the freedom to choose them or because they have been conditioned to believe they are not allowed to have them?
Not being concerned about having a larger, nicer house or car has NOTHING to do with being free, people can be conditioned to live how and where they are told. Having a choice is what makes you free. The choice between a large house or small apartment. Between a small car or SUV. Those are "choices" that most Europeans have decided to let their govt control for them.

Nope, you have no use for it when you are worm food. But what is the difference between spending your dollars seeing the world and spending them on "stuff?" Its a personal choice that differs from person to person, just as what a person determines makes them free is.

[Hello_Kitty]

55. America's keeping up with the Jones via your possessions mentality doesn't feel like freedom to me.

I've posted this article on DU a few times and I think it's something you might find interesting and enlightening.

"The Gospel of Consumption" http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2962/

It's a long read but well worth it.

[Dogtown]

40. RW talking points.

Enjoy your sixgun, Cowboy. As if that equates to freedom...

[EstimatedProphet]

80. Free Republic is out the door to the right.

[HughBeaumont]

28. RIght, because German citizens would lose their homes and savings if they got cancer.

Jesus Christ.

[kctim]

45. Brings up an interesting question

Does free from worry trump free to choose?

[truebrit71]

47. Huh? "Free to choose"...free to choose what? Cancer? You are making no sense..

..

[kctim]

51. Free to choose

one's healthcare options themselves. Is being free of worry concerning healthcare bills worth giving up the freedom to choose what kind of healthcare you want, or if you even want it?
Is not the one with the choice the one who is more free?

I love Germany and the way they run many things. I would even say it would be nice if we adopted versions of some of their policies. But it is absolutely incorrect to suggest they are more free than us.

[truebrit71]

52. Um..you know how silly that sounds right? If it's a free healthcare as in $$, who needs options?

If it's already provided free...what possible other option could there be? Really, REALLY free? Super-Dee-Duper Free?

You make no sense.

And you STILL haven't provide an example of how they are less free than we are...

[kctim]

72. What is silly

is believing it could be 'free' health care, as in $$. It is paid for with higher taxes by the people. In order to know the other possible options, you must understand that many people would rather pay more for their healthcare and control it themselves than pay more in taxes and have somebody else in control. Not saying I agree with that line of thinking, but ignoring their beliefs and forcing it on them does nothing but create more discontent and division amongst the people.

I have provided numerous examples for you and they all center around a VERY basic concept: a person with NO choice is less free than a person WITH a choice.

[EstimatedProphet]

81. Wrong

Freedom comes in 2 flavors - freedom OF, and freedom FROM. Freedom OF includes choice, such as speech, gun ownership, religion, etc. Freedom FROM includes no self-incrimination, no forced quartering of government officials, etc. It also includes freedom from economic systems designed to pigeonhole people into debt traps, and that in practice includes a helluva lot of what's going on in the US today, medical expenses being just one example. Seems like Europe has a lot more freedom FROM going on, in my opinion and experience.

[laughingliberal]

65. How is it 'free to choose' one's healthcare when it's unaffordable?

And, btw, the insurance companies decide here what kind of healthcare you get. Unless you're very well heeled, some insurance company whose profits depend on denying as many expensive treatments as they can, decides what care you get and, by setting the hella high premiums, they decide IF you get health care, at all.

[kctim]

74. Thats a great point

but at the current time, it is NOT unaffordable to the majority of Americans. If it was, so many of them would not be so against a centralized healthcare plan, IMO.

Even if one was to believe what you describe was the norm, that still does not show they are more free than us. We can choose if we pay for an insurance plan or not and we can choose what plan we wish to pay for. They do not have that choice. Less choice, less free. Whether you and I think it is fair or not.

[EstimatedProphet]

82. It is too

Basic healthcare checkups may not be unaffordable, but practically anything even remotely serious quickly becomes so for the majority of people in this country.

[HughBeaumont]

98. "it is NOT unaffordable to the majority of Americans."??????

Man. Something tells me it is you who needs to get out more.

They're against centralized health care because of 50 years of successful Red-bait-oriented propaganda by the AMA and, subsequently, Big Insurance.

That's because the majority of 'Murkins believe in this jingoist lameness that all countries are in competition with each other, like a world Decathalon or something, and America is always the winner. That we have the best minds. The most technological infrastructure. The most sustainable economic system. The most equitable way of life, the most level playing field. The best food. The number one health care in the world. The most FAIR.

Nothing could be further from the truth in all cases.

They couldn't even imagine something better or better for them, and they're phenomenally steadfast in their stubbornness and their refusal to even examine such a system.

[HughBeaumont]

50. Free from worry LEADS to freedom of choice.

Do you think it's fair that an American's success and station in life almost completely depends on how gainfully they're employed?

[laughingliberal]

66. +1 nt

[kctim]

76. To some, not all

Our history, our culture, is that of individual freedoms and individuals being able to make choices for themselves. Being free from worry can only come about by limiting or taking away the right to choose. Whether we like it or not, people are not going to abandon that mindset overnight.
Politicians pander to, and capitalize on, the worries of those who vote for them, with total disregard for those who did not vote for them. This is why liberals and Democrats are always fighting amongst themselves.
Free from worry ONLY leads to freedom of choice when an individual agrees with, and willingly accepts, the choices they are GIVEN in order to be free from worry.

Do I think its fair? No. But then again, I don't think its fair, or wise, for an American to determine their "success or staion in life" by how much they or others earn, either.

[mitchum]

94. Well said, Hugh

[haele]

60. Does freedom from worry trump having to pay for a supposed freedom to choose?

There is really very little freedom to choose in this country. Other than making the qualifications to join the military, you need to pay for everything in this country, either by working your ass off and networking (a choice, true - but there's a lot of chance involved there), or by being dropped by the right womb (not a choice).
The only real freedom of choice one has in this country that they don't in Europe is the ability to buy a gun, if they can afford it and pass lax background check laws, and enough "free speech" to be a serious asshole and community disrupter.

The problem most citizens of the United States haven't come to grips with is that there is no frontier left for those of us to strike out and make our fortunes on our own bootstraps; pretty much all resources we have are community resources, and that tends to mean we're stuck living with the rules of community. Even the open spaces and summers off camping in remote wilderness or hanging out with a friend in her uncle's backwoods ranch - both experiences I grew up with - are pretty much gone. Being able to claim-stake a couple or couple hundred acres and creating your own lifestyle compound requires the type of money and resources that 95% of the US population no longer has the ability to gather together. If you "chose" to live in total freedom, you do so as pretty much a homeless vagabond or transient, not accepted in the majority of the communities across this nation, no matter how "progressive" or "traditional" they are.

Europeans have come to an understanding about the close living as a community - and unfortunately, those living outside the community tend to get the raw end of the law. What's almost sadly funny is that we in the US still cling to the fiction that we haven't transformed our country into the same types of society - and the Tea Party/Libertarian types are driven miserable, because they can't seem to equate the myth of a "free society"s supposed to be with what they actually in as they and their friends get trapped with jobs, their "nice" houses, their family lifestyle and consumption habits...

If we as a people don't understand the requirements necessary to be part of a community, we are left with the choice to either view the requirements presented as an unacceptable loss of freedom and flee that community, or the choice to accept those requirements not as limitations but as the price to pay for a healthy society.

Like most Europeans and Canadians I know, I choose what ranking of freedoms I will fight to the death for. But I am also mindful of my survival within the community I am forced by economy and my own personal situation (a mixture of choice and circumstance) to live in.

Haele

[haele]

61. Delete - Dupe

NT

[fishwax]

70. the freedom from worry opens up other choices

It's freedom along a different axis.

[Riftaxe]

27. Are you seriously posting unified Germany

as an example of freedom? I am friends with many Germans and German expatriates, not one of them is arrogant enough to claim it comes even close to the United States in civil liberties.

Perhaps talk to people outside of the disco?

[devilgrrl]

31. So what you´re saying is that you`ve never been here?

BTW, I haven´t been to a disco and you´re full of crap.

Just saying. :hi:

[truebrit71]

37. Can you back that up? Specifically what civil liberties do we "enjoy" that Germans don't?

..

[HughBeaumont]

29. When you think about it, our "taxes" are actually much higher . . .

. . . we just don't call the extraordinary amount of cash we have to hand over for health "insurance" that doesn't cover us a "tax", par example.

Our tax goes to fund the Tricke Down Charity Fund and the Empirical slaughterama. SOMEone has to pay for them CEO junkets, yachts, perks, etc . . . might as well be US.

Read the book Free Lunch sometime. I cannot believe people don't revolt. The wealthy are sodomizing us with a Big Black Axe and a hearty laugh.

[laughingliberal]

68. An excelllent point I have made often.

Add up all the taxes we pay. Then add all the services we pay out of pocket that citizens in other countries have provided out of their tax dollars. Then add in about 4 weeks salary (which is how many more weeks, on average, vacation a German citizen gets). Now tell me how 'crazy' their taxes are and WTH makes living here worth how much we give up for it?

[polly7]

30. Germany can teach a human rights lesson (article).

Germany can teach a human rights lesson
Article posted on Sunday 24 May 2009
The Federal Republic of Germany's constitution entered its 61st year in late May 09. The document, born out of the turmoil of a world war, holds lessons for a peaceful Australia exploring whether or not to adopt its own charter of rights, Chris Michaelsen says.

Article continues »...
Germany’s Catalogue of Basic Rights at 60: Lessons for Australia

* by Christopher Michaelsen

http://www.cla.asn.au/0805/index.php/articles/2009/germany-can-teach-a-human-rights-lesson

[Dreamer Tatum]

57. I'm happy to consider them at par. thanks. nt

[Romulox]

35. I think the bottom line is, at long last, what we have built isn't worth fighting for...

Our country is a teardown.

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. Know where else is cool to go, with, like, totally chill people?

Hawaii. Seriously, you should go. It's awesome.

:eyes:

I mean, a vacationer, enjoying where they are on vacation? What a revelation.

[devilgrrl]

56. You sound jealous. If I had only two weeks of vacation a year I´d be as bitter as you too.

:hi:

[treestar]

63. Exactly what I was thinking

I've never been to a place for a vacation and that place not seem vastly superior to where I live. Because where I live is where my stressful job is and my day to day life with all of its aggravations.

Where one goes on vacation is where one is just having a good time, not having to work, and can relax.

[TheKentuckian]

49. We're a stupid and arrogant people that have allowed money to be conflated with freedom

I'm broke so I don't feel free and for that reason I probably am not.

[stuntcat]

58. been this way a long time I think!

I've said for years, our "Freedom" (always in quotes for me) is imaginary.

A lot of people exercise their "freedom" by eating unhealthy junk diets and shopping at the mall and watching stuff on TV that's so RETARDED that if we could go back and show it to someone from 1930 they'd see us like the morons in the "Idiocracy" movie.
Woohoo, you can drive your fat ass to a Nascar race, what amazing "Freedom" :eyes:

PWNED we certainly are.

[Greyhound]

59. LOL! They just can't stand that while "much better" != perfect, it is still much better.

I expect an epidemic of dislocated shoulders as knees convulse during full cranio-anal inversion.
:rofl:

Too late to rec, but :kick:

[Mr. Ected]

62. I lived in Germany for 5 years. In small towns. With the people.

My life was wonderful. I regret returning to the States. I wish my children could have been raised there. The American Dream is an illusion. We've seriously veered off-course, but I don't blame our politicians. Our people are insane, and we're settling into our just mediocrity.

[BeHereNow]

69. You are correct, the people in this country are gripped by a collective insanity.

It's an appalling mix of apathy, prideful ignorance, and a grandiose,
narcissistic feeling of self entitlement and self importance.

As a people, we are now void of all critical thinking skills.

I too, wish I had raised my child in a more cultured and educated country.

BHN

[Karenina]

99. I've lived in a village of 35, a Uni town of under 100K

and a city of just under a million. In all locations I've felt MUCH FREER and gained insights into exactly what freedom means to me, and to those with a different frame of reference. I shall die happily in my adopted homeland, grateful for the opportunity to have been immersed in a language other than my ubiquitous mother tongue AND THE MANY DIFFERENT MENTALITIES that inform the ones in which I grew up.

[Poboy]

64. What? "Land of the Free"? Whoever told you that is your enemy. -RATM nt

[BeHereNow]

67. GO Devilgrrl! Tell it like it IS! (K&R too!)

Oh, and have a Spaten for me, will you?
Germany is such a beautiful country- so glad
you are able to spend some time there!

Enjoy~

BHN

[lib2DaBone]

71. Kick Some day American Sheep will awake.. but not now...

[Pavulon]

77. From the continent of megadeath. Low ball estimate 80million people

died in european wars last century. Wars driven by european powers. The us spent billions to make germany what it is today.

What EXACTLY other than socialized medicine is Germany providing that I do not have access here to in the states? They have much better beer..

Do you know why germany does not spend many billions on defense, because their sovereignty is secured by NATO (US) forces.

Please clarify what you are talking about. leetspeek is not cutting it.

[Pavulon]

78. Oh forgot to ask..Have you applied for your work visa yet

because "I like germany" will not cut it. They will require a corporation to secure your visa, unless you want to try to work undocumented, in which case they will deport you. You want to do business (any job) there, it requires significant cash. You could try an asylum claim, you know, from America's oppressive system

I compete with German companies and they are just as cut throat as japanese companies. They pay bribes and kickbacks, dump product below cost, and play hardball. I lived in germany while in the army and loved it. I also love small new england towns.

Try to get a job in a machine shop there, go apply. Tell me how far that gets you. Unless you hold dual citizenship you will not get far.

[killbotfactory]

79. The US has the largest prison population in the world

But yeah, we are free to starve, free to be denied adequate shelter, free to be denied healthcare, etc..

[cottonseed]

83. For those on DU who aren't in constant disillusionment and depression.

Things in the US are pretty good.

I think if some people read the garbage posted and cheered on here all day they'd get the idea that this is somehow like 1930s Germany. Well, it's not. Step outside. There's a big dynamic country out there.

[devilgrrl]

84. Step out of the USA - there's a big dynamic world that you're missing

:-)

[Pavulon]

85. Post war germany is a product of US policy and funding.

we spent hundreds of billions of dollars to make west germany what it was and support the german economy with out trade and markets to this day. Germany is a great place, it shows some of the best traits of western democracy and capitalism.

Visit India, China, or South America to see how lucky you were to be born in a western democracy.

[devilgrrl]

86. India, China, and South America - all nations effected by our foreign policy...

we are just spreading freedom all over the joint aren't we?

Don't tell me, dropping bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved more lives than it took right?

:popcorn:

[Pavulon]

87. NO the Marshall plan, berlin airlift, and NATO troops

allowed the german economy to flourish rather than fall into ruin like after the first ww. Guess your done with the whole germany thing right. BTW have you tried to get a non resident workers permit or long term residency. When you do note the requirements.

How, exactly, is Chinese poverty a US issue?

[devilgrrl]

88. Decent paying US jobs shipped to China so they can produce it cheaper for next to nothing...

... could be one thing.

Seeing that it's so hard to get a work permit, guess, I'll just have to jump the border and work under the table for peanuts.

[Pavulon]

92. You can get one if you can prove you have money and insurance.

someone who will cosign for you, and a pension, you know all the great free things you get for being born in Germany...

If you get deported in germany you will be persona non grata in many EU countries. Seriously they will deport your ass in two shakes of a lambs tail. One of the dumb asses I worked with figured that out on a trip to italy. Seems a crime he committed in france (petty) prevented him from gaining entry and involved two consulates to fix.

China being a body shop with no labor regulation is a US caused issue how? I know they have good beer and weed there, but really?

We rebuilt germany in our image, it has some of the best aspects of the US, paid for in treasury and blood. Enjoy.

[cottonseed]

91. The wonders of vacationing in Europe isn't a little secret known only to you :)

I've been around. Europe, Asia, South America. I love them all, but I love this country the most.

[BuelahWitch]

90. A former coworker of mine lived in Germany as a boy

His dad was stationed there. He didn't strike me as being a liberal, yet he said he loved Germany. He told me that the crime was low because people knew they'd be taken care of. He said he wish he could go back.

[Hugabear]

95. A work camp with a "WORK WILL SET YOU FREE" sign?

Are you sure you weren't looking at one of our own DUer's "beautiful camps"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8842321

[DailyGrind51]

96. We live in the "Land of the free-market", where corporations are free to

send our jobs overseas, cancel our health coverage, foreclose on our homes, dump toxins in our drinking water, import dangerous toys, etc.

And, "we" are free to cry in our beer about it all! After all, "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose!"

[mnhtnbb]

101. My son, a German major, just returned from 7 weeks summer study in Berlin.

He loved it.

I have my fingers crossed that he will one day be able to move to Germany.