When Electric Cars Go Viral

[azul]

But that's not what's interesting about this story. It's what's happened to Gregg in the process. He recently emailed Otmar about putting in a charging station at the business center, explaining, "I must admit that the more I get into this, the greener I am becoming. I just smile sometimes when I am driving
that car. It is so cool to be a part of this new wave of electric vehicles. I can't think of a better way to help get the country (not to mention the rest of the world) farther away from the oil economy we have become dependent on the last century."

Then he makes what I think is a profound observation, one that sparked the title of this commentary. He writes, "I am convinced that the more common these cars are, the more common they will become. (Is that a conundrum?)"

http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=131


We can't think of a better way to stop the blood for oil exchange and from sinking further into debt.

The Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt will hit the streets soon and really begin the infectious stage. Petrolatum vaccinations may be necessary for militant authoritarian gas-guzzlers to prevent panic.

[guruoo]

1. They'll go viral when they break $20k. n/t

[zipplewrath]

2. Use version with solar collectors

The used markets will make them more popular. And if anyone comes up with a decent solar charger that can "top off" cars used for the typical commute, they could become very popular with a certain segment of society that could use some very cheap transportation options.

[TheWraith]

4. There's not nearly enough energy there.

The amount of energy that falls on a car roof during the day would only be enough to drive it at most a few miles a day. And that's assuming good weather.

[zipplewrath]

5. Yeah, I'm thinking more "portable"

Guy spends 8 hours with his car in a parking lot. He uses maybe 20% of his charge round trip. If he could charge up with some portable solar collector while at work, and some compatible system at home, he ends up paying the power company very little.

By they by, the nominal commute is something silly like 16 miles or something. So there should be a significant market for people who only need to charge up for 10 miles or less.

[Matariki]

6. Nice idea - or parking garages with solar collectors on the roof...

[TheWraith]

9. No. The math doesn't add up.

The average commute is 16 miles and change EACH WAY, for a total of 33 miles a day. An electric vehicle uses about 220 watt-hours per mile (based on the average of the Teslas and the Volt), so that's 7260 KWh that you'd need to generate to offset someone's average commute. To generate that in one day, you'd need a square of solar panels 15 feet on a side, or 218 square feet total, according to FindSolar.com.

Also according to them, to buy that solar system costs $15,307, or $4,318 after "incentives" like tax rebates. Now compare the cost of charging from the grid: recharging your car would cost $25.52 per MONTH, which would mean that the solar system would take 169 months to pay for itself. That's fourteen years. How many people are going to lay out another five to ten thousand dollars out of pocket for the dubious privilege of saving $25 per month?

[Stevenmarc]

11. It's not always about the math

Sure it's a long payback but at the end of the day some people would prefer paying themselves back than paying a utility company.

[TheWraith]

14. That's a wonderful attitude if you're ultra-wealthy and have money to burn.

But normal people don't operate that way. For them, it IS about the math. And no normal person is going to be able to justify dropping $5000 on a charging system that won't even pay for itself, let alone save a lot of money, until they're retired. Particularly not the people zipplewrath was talking about who need "cheap transportation options."

[Stevenmarc]

18. Unfortunately

What you call "normal" I call the culture of the mediocre where people will accept any old crap based on cost and the whole concept of value has been lost. For example when I bought my first generation Prius in 2000 had I made my decision strictly on the numbers it would have never made the cut, however, I put a value on reduction of gas usage and emissions and a personal satisfaction of driving past gas stations.

It's not about being "ultra-wealthy" or having "money to burn" it's about readjusting your financial priorities to align with your values. It wasn't like I had to trade in my yacht to buy a car that at the time was about $5,000 more than a comparable non-hybrid version, it was about finding a way to make it work, quite simply lowest cost doesn't mean best value and if being more concerned with value rather than cost is not "normal" than so be it, I tend to reject the pervasive Wal-Mart mindset.

Now that being said there are going to be plenty of people out there who will not be able to make it work, not now at least, hell I can't afford a Tesla I'm not going to whine about it but a Leaf that certainly is a possibility.

[TheWraith]

19. Explain to me how someone making a living on $28,000 a year justifies blowing five grand.

Tell me how somebody who's trying to make sure their bills are paid, and MAYBE their kids can go to college, can justify dropping five thousand dollars--actually more like fifteen out of pocket, and then they're reimbursed--on something that at best is going to pay for itself then provide maybe a few thousand dollars more savings over it's lifespan?

Average people don't have that money to spend. Period. Stretching their budget to buy a $20k electric car instead of a $10k econobox is difficult enough.

[Stevenmarc]

21. What part of

"Now that being said there are going to be plenty of people out there who will not be able to make it work, not now at least" did you not comprehend.

The price of technology changes all the time, hopefully it will adjust itself to allow those absolutely priced out of the market today to participate in the future.

[AnArmyVeteran]

17. You can have your own solar/wind charging station at home

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8834163

With the green energy from the sun or wind, millions of Americans could not only power their electric cars, but a good portion of their homes as well. If we spent our country's treasury wisely we could have a green revolution in our country. Yes, the initial costs would be high, but solar and wind energy sources are low maintenance and long lasting. We could have a new age in our country and be the envy of the world.

Using our limited realizes wisely would be far cheaper than spending trillions on multiple wars for oil and continuing to be held hostage to the oil, coal and natural gas industries. All it would take is strong and decisive leadership and a commitment from a large number of Americans. If our leaders presented the message in a clear and concise manner even a lot of republicans (the saner ones anyway) might go along with a green revolution. Every American (see note below) could benefit from having their own energy sources or being able to tap into a smart grid with energy provided from green energy miles from their homes.

During WWII, every American worked together recycling everything for our war effort. Why can't we do the same today? And to ensure we had the resources we could raise the taxes on the wealthiest 5% with an additional ten percent, or more, so they would have to sacrifice for a change. This country has been good to them and it's about time they started to sacrifice like the rest of us.

NOTE: Every American, except the current fossil fuel companies, would benefit from a green revolution. It wouldn't mean an end to these industries, but we could stop being held hostage to the whims of today's kings of power.

[azul]

3. Check out your city and state for help.

The Leaf is $32k, minus $7.5k fed tax credit, minus $5k California refund, minus $5k city of Vacaville refund =$15k plus tax and license. If you happen to live in such a city investing in jump-staring ev's.

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. They almost have in China... My green post link :

My green post link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8834163

[Lance_Boyle]

7. Sadly, it will be like when ipods went viral.

Every hipster douchebag with money to blow will have to have one.

[azul]

8. Hey, watch it!

"When your gravity fails and negativity don't pull you through".
-B. Dylan

[TheMightyFavog]

10. "Don't give me those negative waves!"

[Bluebear]

12. The waves are intentional in this case :(

[The2ndWheel]

13. Green cars

Ha ha ha ha ha. If it were only that easy.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. electric cars are an improvement but I would love to see a movement toward

compressed air vehicles.


You can recharge their tank quickly, unlike a battery, so the range is unlimited so long as compressors are available the way gas pumps are today.


These compressors run on electricity so in a way these are electric powered cars. You are just storing the energy as compressed air instead of as an electric charge.

Batteries also have environmental issues in both manufacturing and disposal. Not so for air tanks.

Right now the technology seems to favor hybrid CAV with a compressor on board as well as a battery to run the compressor to extend the range. This would not be necessary if the infrastructure was in place to fill the tank at service stations.

Yes they still look like little toy cars but isn't that what electric vehicles looked like 5 years ago?



http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=43


^snip^


Vehicle Specifications
Length - 13.4 ft
Width - 5.97 ft
Height - 5.74 ft
Seating - 6 seats
Trunk volume - 35 cubic ft
Weight - 1874 lbs
Engine - 6 Cyl.
Power - 75 hp
Max Speed - 96 mph*
Mileage - 106 mpg*
Range - 848 miles (8 gal tank) *
Co2 - 0.141 lbs/mile (at speeds >35mph; zero emissions at <35mph)

* estimated performance and subject to change

Standard Features will include:

Computer based screen display of vehicle control parameters
Full CFC-free A/C
Airbags
Fully reclining driver’s seat
Power windows, door locks and mirrors
Deluxe AM/FM stereo with cassette and cd player, optional GPS
Rear window defogger
Concealed spare tire
All season 13-inch radial tires
A cold weather package will be available

Engine and Transmission Characteristics include:

Horsepower: 75
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Oil volume and oil change interval: 0.8 liter at 50,000 miles
Engine mount: Rear
Transmission: Automatic, Continually Variable Transmission. Rear wheel drive.
Suspension: Front coil spring, rear pneumatic.
Steering mechanism: Rack and pinion.
Chassis and body materials: Aluminum and fiber glass.
Tanks: Thermoplastic lining and carbon fiber.

Fuel Characteristics:

Compressed Air: 3200 ft3 @ 4500 psi
Charger: On board 5.5 kwh 110/220 v compressor generating 812 ft3 /hr.

[TheWraith]

20. I'm looking forward to the Chevy Volt. Hope to own one in a year or so.

It strikes me as the best compromise for long-distance use, at least until the Tesla-style large battery packs are less expensive and the high-speed charging stations more common.