How would you respond to this nattering nabob of negativity?

[imurhuckleberry]

This is from my local paper discussion forum ....

<"outline a plan of how you propose to produce solar panels without petroleum products.....what you plan to do with all those hazardous batteries from your dream fleet of 'green' electric cars (made from mined toxic heavy metals) that only go 50-80 miles without recharge (fossil fuel fired electric), so for long trips we'll need a second car which mean twice the steel, twice the plastic, rubber, copper, glass (all things that consume fossil fuels to produce and in the process emit carbon, not to mention many require petroleum....then you can show us how to make the steel for the towers for those lovely windmills (about 9 tons each, produced from mined minerals) without using fossil fuels or emmitting carbon into the atmosphere....it should only take a little over 100,000 of them to get things started....then tell us about transmission towers (steel), transmission lines (copper/aluminum), the massive consumption of land for solar panels (which are inefficient and will generate electicity at 5 times the current cost of coal fired, then you can tell us what cities not in the 'wind zone' are going to do to make their windmills turn and generate electricity at 3 times the cost of fossil fuel fired, not to mention the attractive skylines.[br />
Then you can really amuse us by telling us how you are against giving corporations tax breaks to boost the economy but you will gladly throw billions and billions of dollars in subsidies to get 'green' energy that will cost consumers 3-5 times more than the amount many are struggling to pay now and put hundreds of thousands out of work - like that neat gulf moritorium from companies that can't generate a profit or survive without the government prop.

Yea, green sounds great to bad you morons don't have a workable plan to make it happen, much less make it happen without bankrupting, freezing or stranding hundreds of thousands of hard working Americans."]


I'd like to respond succinctly.The anti-environmentalists numbskulls in those forums can't be bothered with 'reading links' to provide proof that the solutions for green energy are real and less destructive.

I think I have the "produce solar panels without petroleum products" covered. Aren't solar panels made with silicon? And "the massive consumption of land" ... The Parking Lot as ‘Solar Grove’ http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/the-parking-lot-as-solar-grove/?src=me

And the "hazardous batteries"..."the cells are sent to a hammer mill that turns them into pulp (second photo in this post). They then separate the elements and re-use what can be re-used (cobalt, aluminum, nickel, and copper, etc)." http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/tesla-electric-car-batteries-non-toxic-recycled.php

And 'steel windmill towers" ... which are actually made from wood or steel.

Any other suggestions anyone has to respond to this douche would be much appreciated!

[Historic NY]

1. Sometimes you can't fix stupid...

[blondeatlast]

2. "How are you recycling the last 3 dozen bargain water bottles you bought

at Wal-Mart, since you're so concerned about the environment and all?"

[imurhuckleberry]

4. Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...

I was trying to think of something to suggest it is so much more logical to use 'fossil fueled' energy grid to make cheap, useless throwaway garbage than to use it now to convert to green energy sources.

[WinkyDink]

3. Way to make me feel old! :-)

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Nobody said we wouldn't need oil.

We just won't need nearly as much. And we recycle batteries already.

You have to keep it simple with these Neanderthals.

[jtuck004]

6. First, quit thinking of this person as a douche.

That won't help your response, which should be on a higher plane. He may not be a rocket surgeon, but he votes, so maybe you can make him think.

While we waste time writing articles about living in the past, China is using the money they are making from everyone's purchases to build the largest pubic-works project ever, a $62 billion series of aqueducts to bring water to cities. China has gone from a Gross Domestic Product of $500 billion to $4.33 trillion in just 30 years, and just this month they surpassed the United States as the largest energy consumer. And they moved this far in less than 30 years. Oil will continue to increase in price, and it won't last forever. China has a plan and is moving forward to provide her citizens with alternative sources. What is our plan?

Some of his concerns are valid. Right of way, materials, range of cars, 30 million of our neighbors either unemployed or underemployed, and vying for less than 3 million available jobs, lack of vision or effective plans by both major political parties caught up in bickering at each other, while 1 out of 5 families in our country can't afford to buy food - those are problems that can't be dismissed. All are issues that we are going to have to overcome if we expect to compete in a 21st century globalized economy, prove that we really believe in the most important of family values, and accomplish all this before international currency becomes the yen, and not the dollar.

_________________________

Use any of that if it can help...

[txlibdem]

7. Ask him

How does he like the $36.5 Billion the oil and gas industry gets each year in federal subsidies and tax breaks. Why not subsidize renewable energy as much as we have been subsidizing oil and gas? Which one would you want your tax dollars going to?

How many miles does the average American actually drive in a day? 36 miles on average. Tell him how many miles you drive per day. I drive 41 miles a day at most, 38 on average.

Suggest that an electric car may not be right for him but they are still an important part of our automotive future and they will be perfect for tens of millions of Americans as things are today. And as batteries improve they will be affordable enough for everyone.

Electricity isn't made using fossil fuels in all parts of the country. But several people have compared the emissions of gas cars to an electric car (like the Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt) and the electric car wins even if it gets its power from 100% coal power. No states get 100% of their power from coal. In Washington State most power is from hydro.

Coal power's share of our electricity generation is decreasing and will continue to decrease. In other words an electric car is already cleaner than a gas burning car and it will get cleaner and cleaner into the future. If you get your power from renewables then an electric car causes no emissions at all.

For those that can afford to put a 2kW solar PV system on their roof all the electricity for their electric car will be produced by solar (with extra to spare in the summer months if you drive 40 miles per day or less) and the savings on fuel costs alone will pay off the solar panels in 5 years or less. Solar panel costs are coming down so most people will be able to afford them within 10 years.

[imurhuckleberry]

8. Thank You and also everyone that has reponded to my request!

I will use your suggestions.

Thank you again!

[gratuitous]

9. The first paragraph jumped right off my keyboard

The hidden costs of our current system, in terms of laying roads, subsidizing oil companies, and providing tax breaks for company-owned vehicles, cost a pretty penny that isn't apparent until you start digging. If we changed our energy policy to subsidize renewable energy and sustainable practices to even half what we're currently doling out to our good corporate fellow citizens such as BP, Exxon and Halliburton, the benefits would soon pay for themselves in cleaner air and greater efficiencies.