Who do want teaching your child?

[proud2BlibKansan]

Inspired by this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8795224

[sandnsea]

1. I know who I don't want

That's for sure. I don't want experienced teacher with degrees in education who think the WMD is in Syria or that abortion is the same thing as Roman infanticide. Among a few others I'll leave unsaid.

[Sebastian Doyle]

12. Do your kids go to school in Puyallup, by any chance?

those teachers you describe sound like my brother and his friends. Glenn BecKKK fans, unfortunately. And teachers, believe it or not. :evilfrown:

[sandnsea]

16. Further south, same kind of idiots

Possibly at least one could be the same idiot because he isn't at this school anymore, but he probably stayed in the northwest somewhere.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. It would be appreciated if the ones who choose TFA would explain their reasoning

I'd love to hear it.

[rpannier]

3. Maybe Bill Gates or Steve Jobs post here

:shrug:

I'm grateful I live overseas and my kids attend public schools in Korea (One's with certified teachers who trained to be a teacher)

I'd home school my kids before I allowed the clowns from TFA near my kids

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Well some of the TFA rookies have very helpful co-workers

:)

[sandnsea]

4. I did, in #1

The assumption that a degree makes all the difference is flat bullshit. I chose the TFA out of spite for your assinine poll.

[Starry Messenger]

7. Me too. I want to see if there is a correlation with my ignore list.

I'm betting yes. :D

[proud2BlibKansan]

Lookin good so far

:rofl:

[Starry Messenger]

11. Same here!

:rofl:

[mzteris]

6. people with intelligence and a passion for teaching

not those who became teachers because that's all they could do. . . ya know?

[sense]

9. Yes, plus a passion

for their subject and an interest in learning more.

[sense]

8. A teaching degree in the hands of

many doesn't mean a thing. For that matter, any degree doesn't tell you the competence of a person.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. If you were having surgery tomorrow would you rather have a surgeon who has experience

or a trainee who just graduated from an Ivy League school with a business degree?

[sense]

15. Irrelevant obfuscation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. So you refuse to answer

I don't blame you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. How so?

[Forkboy]

36. Not really.

[woo me with science]

17. You once argued to me that teachers can teach subjects they don't know

merely because they have degrees in "pedagogy."

Yes, teaching experience and training are useful, but they do not replace competence in the subject. There are many talented teachers who never took a course in education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Pedagogy trumps knowledge of subject matter

Any good teacher will tell you that. And instructional experience coupled with knowledge of pedagogy makes a good teacher.

How much do you figure a business grad knows about surgery? Would you trust him/her to operate on you after a 3 week crash course in surgery?

[sandnsea]

21. Teaching ain't brain surgery

And that's why you don't make the big bucks.

[haele]

23. Actually, good teaching is "brain surgery"

If you've ever witnessed a complete turn-around of outlook and potential in a person who thought they weren't smart enough, when all they needed was someone who could teach them a different way of approaching an unknown, or how to remember, or just how to learn, it's a profound experiance - just like removing a tumor on the student's brain that was keeping them back.

Of course, it also requires that the student be motivated to learn in the first place.

Haele

[sandnsea]

27. No, that's not brain surgery

In fact, you could put mechanic or computer tech in the place of surgeon and it would be the same. It takes a very finite skill set that is completely different than teaching, counseling or even lawyering. There's no comparison.

Other knowledge is transferrable. If it's not, then what the hell is the point of an education to begin with.

And no, a student does not need to be motivated to learn with a really good teacher at the student's side. Part of teaching is motivating.

[noamnety]

22. Would you want a teacher with an education degree and knowledge of pedagogy

but no medical experience teaching your surgeon?

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Oh surely he would have a quick 3 week course before they put a knife in his hand

:rofl:

[noamnety]

26. I would want a surgeon who was trained by another surgeon.

Not someone off the street with a 3 week training course, but also not someone with no knowledge of the subject matter. I am not discounting the education degree (I have one), but I would never place that above knowledge of and passion for the subject matter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. And I place passion for teaching above all

I had a couple brilliant academics as teachers in high school. One had written the textbook we were using. But neither of them could teach. All that subject knowledge did not help their students learn the content they were trying to teach.

[woo me with science]

35. Maybe, but if you don't know the content, you can't teach it effectively, either.

A degree in education does not magically endow you with the subject knowledge you must convey to your students. If you don't know the material yourself, you cannot convey it expertly and in context. You cannot answer the questions of novices and identify beginners' errors in their thinking, since you are merely a novice yourself. What, exactly, are you teaching so expertly, if you don't know the subject?

An education major with no training in medicine certainly could not and should not teach surgery to a medical student. That education major likewise should not teach physics or writing to my daughter if he or she is not competent in physics or writing.

[haele]

37. Other than grade school, I know of very few educators that don't also have to know their subject -

When I got injured at work a few years back, one of the things I was thinking of doing as an alternative to shipyards was to try to be a teacher. And this is what I found as a credentialing requirement to be a public school teacher in the state of California...

From Jr. High School on, they need to have at least a BA or BS in the subject they are going to teach - unless, of course, they're strictly teaching the elective courses, like woodshop or P.E. A teacher can't switch teaching departments from, say, teaching High School Woodshop to teaching Algebra II without having been a Math Major in the first place.
They can "teach down" but they can't "Teach up". So your Physics teacher has to have at least four years in Physics or a equivalent engineering course of study before he or she can teach your daughter Physics.
And even with elective classes, teachers need to first have a primary degree in their subject matter (arts, history, math, language arts, general sciences, economics) before they can go on to least a three to four year graduate study in education; also, some state systems require two semesters of graded internship in a normal public school before they will officially graduate you.

I can understand your concern if you're going by what you experienced when you were growing up; when I was a kid, a high school teacher could have his or her four-year degree in Education and just a additional two-year degree in some basic subject to qualify them to teach public school, but in most states, that's no longer the case.

Now, Private School teachers - their requirements are set by the BoD or Charter of the individual school, not by the state. If five years ago, I knew someone on the Board of someplace like, say "Imaginary New Horizons Private Charter School", with my 25 years of engineering background (without an engineering degree, btw), I could have easily gotten a full time job teaching High School Science or Math with just a State Teaching Certificate and an Associates Degree in Medieval Music Theory.

Haele

[Whisp]

40. thats a false comparison.

:rofl:

geeeze.
hope these kinds of examples don't end up, yaknow, in the classroom.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. Experienced Liberal Teachers

and proud union members! :kick:

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Experienced teachers who do the who do that you do so well...

and can put a subject in a sentence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. LOL good catch

Too late to edit.

[slampoet]

24. NOT who ever wrote the headline.

[Lifelong Protester]

29. You know where I stand,

for educators, true EDUCATORS, not trainees.

And with experience that goes (gasp!****) beyond three years, and paid accordingly...

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. A teacher who can keep ideology out of their lesson plan in order to encourage critical thinking.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I don't think TFA covers that aspect of teaching.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. TFA trainees have their place

but NOT in charge of a classroom.

It is a good place for them to learn their chops UNDER the tutelage of EXPERIENCED teachers...

Lost generation, that is what will come.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. That's the missing piece in TFA

I had to student teach for an entire semester. Nine weeks observing and then nine weeks as the primary teacher. I can't even imagine three weeks of quick and dirty training and then being able to take a class on my own.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Well when this "experiment is over,"

Jack and Jill will not be able to read, write or think. Perhaps though, they will be fit for cheap labor though. I suspect this is the end goal.

[LWolf]

38. Wow.

Poll results not withstanding, this poll has brought out the teacher-bashers in full force. :(

I'm glad there are still some people who want me to teach their kids.

[ecstatic]

39. subject experts with excellent communication and teaching skills nt