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Holy Spicoli, I think my mother is an atheist.

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:55 PM
Original message
Holy Spicoli, I think my mother is an atheist.
When I met her, which was, you know, when I was born, she was Catholic, and at some point around my first decade mark she became a Methodist, because the Catholics were a little too laid back. Methodistism was only a gateway drug, though, as she moved to harder substances, starting with Baptists, then various Evangelicals, then the ubiquitous "Non-Denominationals," which is the equivalent of Meth, I suppose--it is cheap, unregulated, and consumes your life. She had a hard early life with a suicidal and mentally ill mother, and was searching for answers to all the issues that made her high strung and an emotional wreck, and a constant candidate for a nervous breakdown. Her adult life wasn't much easier, rearing one sociopath, one schizophrenic, one alcoholic, and me. To survive what she has, she has had to be strong, even if she doesn't know that about herself.

Meanwhile, I wandered behind her, on my own quest, which made me very devout when I was young, but an atheist by the time I was twenty. I studied eastern religions and Islam and even Christianity as an academic, maybe just to be sure I hadn't missed anything. I liked the theology of it all, but I didn't believe the god part of any of it. I never really told my parents, but over the years it became obvious, and I never even really thought much about it.

Over the years as an adult I noticed she made fewer and fewer comments about God. She went from the type who would say "God has blessed me (despite the fact it was obvious he had not)" and "Have faith in God," to "How God can let so many children in Somalia suffer," or whatever the hot topic of the day was. In the process she also changed politically, from someone who voted for Reagan twice, to someone who hesitantly voted for Clinton, to someone who actively campaigned for Obama.

So Saturday I was visiting my parents on the Coast and we went for a drive to Dauphin Island, Alabama, looking for oil and tar balls. It's the in thing to do on the Gulf Coast these days, I guess. Somehow or another religion came up, and I said something from the assumption of an atheist. I can't even remember what--it's hard to get away from religion over there, so probably we saw a bumper sticker or sign or something. When she replied, she, too, did so from the assumption of an atheist, and then added--this is the part I remember most--"I believed as much as all of them when I was younger." Then she nervously shut up about it, mostly because my father was in the car. He's a casual Catholic who is upset that I'm an atheist (he doesn't say anything, but I can tell), and I get the idea she's never mentioned her own beliefs to him.

So she's gone from a testify-with-every-breath Christian to an atheist, in about 70 years, and a right-of-center moderate to a left-of-liberal progressive (sometimes going further than me) in about 30 years. She's also gone from an uptight nervous wreck who cried at the drop of a hat to a relaxed person at peace with the world. Her journey finally brought her what she had always been seeking. All without anyone preaching to her, screaming at her, calling her names over her beliefs, or any of that. It was a slow process of discovery, self-analysis, and experience with the world. For religion anyway--when it came to politics I preached unmercifully about the evils of Republicanism.

I'm not really happy or sad she became an atheist. It's not the answer a person finds that is important to me. But I'm ecstatic that for the first time the answer seems to be hers, and that all of the questing she did finally brought her to some type of peace.

I was on Facebook earlier today, and a high school friend of mine--back then one of the greatest sources of entertainment for the guys, if you know what I mean--was dropping her God-phrases everywhere. She's gone from the easy girl crying for the attention of boys to the virtuous mother crying for the attention of God. And as I always do, I bristled with her "We serve an Awesome and Merciful God!" comments. I started to comment, but I thought of my mother, and how long it took her to reach an answer that truly brought her peace. So I didn't bother. I came here and wrote about my mother instead, and let my old friend continue on her own quest, wondering where it would eventually take her.

I don't know if anyone will read this. I just felt like writing it. :)
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. I read this and I understand the evolutionary process of her decision
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 03:06 PM by LaurenG
on edit - to clarify.
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costahawk1987 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. You beat me to it... :)
She sounds like a great lady though. That definitely needs mentioned.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, I felt like reading it, my dear jobycom...
You have written something very vivid, and moving, about your mom. If she could read this, she would be so proud! I'm nearly her age, so I can relate...

And I greatly admire your restraint when it came to addressing your high school friend. Hers is not an easy path...I wish her luck!

I did recommend this, but someone already unrecced it, so it didn't show. I wanted you to know that I liked what you wrote that much...

Thank you for having done so!

:hug:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Thanks. She's always been a good mom.
:)

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Awesome light bulb. You're friend is a lucky person.
:yourock:
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. It was a good read
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Me too.
--imm
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Live and learn? Nice piece. Thanks for sharing nt
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just make sure you fill your mother in...
...on our regular meetings where we worship graven images of Richard Dawkins and drink the blood of puppies.

She's one of us now! :evilgrin:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Interestingly, on Richard Dawkins, she never was into Creationism.
Even at the height of her Evangelical phase, she used to tell her church friends that they made all Christians look stupid when they opposed Evolution. :) She believed in creation, but thought is was a loose description, not a literal blow-by-blow description.

Interestingly, she mimicked Saint Augustine on that, whether she knew it or not, who argued in his "On the literal interpretation of Genesis" that Christians who denied obvious science and observation to stick to a literal interpretation of the Creation story were idiots who made the whole religion look idiotic. For Augustine, the Bible was concerned with salvation, and so it did not have to be taken literally when it went against common sense. Some stories were allegories. He didn't know about Evolution, but one suspects he would have supported it.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Both my parents died unbelievers
after spending most of my lifetime hurt that I'd rejected religion.

My mother was expected, an agnostic who believed in reincarnation and a faithful Irish Catholic, she turned down last rites at the end saying she didn't want to die that big a hypocrite.

My dad was the jaw dropping one, announcing that he no longer believed in "all that Sunday school crap" on his deathbed. I didn't grill him about it, just gently reminded that I hadn't believed any of it for a very long time and that it was fine with me whatever he believed or didn't believe.

I have to think their passing was easier without all that fear of a nasty, judgmental and vindictive god.

In any case, I had nothing to do with their "conversion" away from religion, we hadn't discussed any of it for many years. They came to their own conclusions in their own time, much like your mother did.





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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks.
:)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. your recounting here is showing some pretty good storytelling chops...
.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Tell that to my publisher.
You know, the one I've never found yet. :rofl:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow - great post! Write some more!! nt
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. heh! I suspect at 45k + posts, I've written enough to make many scream "Nooo!!" at your suggestion.
Many of my posts have been way longer than that one! :rofl:
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well good for her for finally "seeing the light"
to borrow a phrase :)


I don't understand how people still believe in "god/gods" in this enlightened day and age. Well, maybe we aren't that enlightened after all :P
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. I understand your mother. I was
pleasantly surprised that, when I turned 70 years old, I understood just how smart I had become! In spite of a life-threatening illness I have come to terms with the fact that none of knows what happens after death--and even then, it will be too late to matter.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thanks. I'd have been just as happy if she'd reached some wisdom while still believing.
I wasn't really trying to brag about her not believing, so much as point out that she had made the journey on her own, without a lot of proselytizing from me, and that it makes me realize that everyone is on their own path, and it's best not to interfere with that path, since we don't know what they will eventually come to believe.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oh for 4, the poor woman ("one sociopath, one schizophrenic, one alcoholic, and me").

:)


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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Ha! yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
:rofl:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's a fortunate person whose brain gets sharper with age, instead of duller.
:thumbsup:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. what a wonderful, thoughtful well written post.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 03:52 PM by Whisp
thank you so much for sharing something so personal.

rec'd

sometimes the only way to learn and grow is by the school of brutal and awful hard knocks.
can't tell you the amount of times I had to reconsider my old ways of thinking when I had to confront situations to give me a royal kick in the ass.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Good for her! I remember when my mother, not the sharpest knife
Edited on Mon Jul-19-10 05:03 PM by valerief
in the drawer but a nice lady, was around 70. She told me, "You know, I just realized all wars are fought over money." She was from the WWII era and must have bought the patriotism thing hook, line, and sinker. She was a Catholic in name only (a cultural Catholic), so she wasn't religious, but I hadn't realized she actually thought wars were fought over things like "communism" and "human rights".

Nothing life-changing for me (been a cynic and atheist since I was a kid), but it was pretty nice to see light dawn on my mother's marble.
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. ---"Non-Denominational," which is the equivalent of Meth, I suppose--
:rofl: :rolf: :rofl:

That is priceless!!! and TRUE!!!! I had a friend who pretty much followed the same progression and I came to the same conclusion when she landed on 'Non-Denominational'. I couldn't even talk to her anymore......everything was 'god - this', praise god - that', 'pray - the other', etc. She was CONSTANTLY trying to get me to go with her. She was like a dog with a bone. It made me crazy. The sad thing is she is raising her children as rabid (read methed out) as her. The last time I talked/saw her she and her daughters met me at a coffee house. While we were chatting her oldest girl (6 years old) came over crying that "sissy is bothering me. I'm trying to pray and sissy is interrupting me". A six year old who feels an overwhelming compulsion to pray at 11 AM in the middle of a coffee house?!?!!??? She 'prayed' several more times during our hour and half visit. These kids drop and pray at the drop of a hat! It was quite spooky.

In another instance we had been out and I had listened to another night of "god - this, pray - that, praise - whatever" and as we were leaving (and I endured another round of ' you need to come to church with me') I made some comment about 'religious people'. She stopped dead and stared at me, "You think I'm a religious person?!!?". She looked like I had just smacked her with a 2x4. I responded "yeah. you don't?". She was both shocked and offended. Then *I* was shocked! She honestly doesn't see herself as being religious!!!!!! Go figure, she is also a birther and has an 'obama is a muslim, non-american born, illegal president' blog. Must be some kind of membership requirement.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. Sounds like your mother finally found the peace of mind everyone deserves. Good for her, and you!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. k&r
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. What wondrous journeys you and your Mom have had.
Interesting that it seems you both may have ended up at the same place.

Thanks for this post. I really enjoyed reading it.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
29. very touching post. you're a very interesting writer.
usually when posts are this long on du, they read as blah blah blah to me. this was very captivating.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Thanks.
:)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
30. The really great thing isn't whether she's an athiest or not,
but that she is throwing off the yolk of what society tells her is right and choosing her own path. I watched my grandmother take similar tentative steps but unfortunately, she was struck down with a heart attack before the seedling had much time.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks, I tried to make that point, but I'm not sure I made it well.
Actually another point people missed was that I was commenting on interfering with other people's spiritual journeys as much as my mother's. We never know what a person's quest will bring, so trying to interfere with or ridicule a person for their beliefs is bad.
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. What a well-written story
Thank you for sharing.

My mom, who was 90 when she died, was a cultural Catholic most of my childhood. We went to mass and I had to go to Sunday School, but it was more for my dad and the family that she did anything religious. I never remember her going to confession and only rarely bothering to go to communion. But as soon as I got into college, all bets were off and she stayed home on Sunday morning and read the Sunday New York Times. As a college student I got involved with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and went to prayer meetings (and stopped going to mass - go figure). Heck I even went to an Assemblies of God church with friends for a while. It bothered her that I was religious at all. I never really came out to her that I'd become a card-carrying pagan (Wiccan if you want to be technical). It would have hurt her too much. So I just told her I was going to a Mensa function when I was going to rituals. It was technically true since the circles were held under the auspicious of a Mensan special interest group. Overly religious people annoyed her, although if they were family she was polite. She hated the religious right with a passion, second only to Republicans. When she died I held no special service for her, although at Samhain I do remember her, which bothered the family a bit. But I did have most of them over for dinner and served her favorite foods as a tribute to her. In the end, chocolate and champagne aren't a bad way to be remembered.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. "chocolate and champagne aren't a bad way to be remembered."
No, they aren't. That's a beautiful story. :)
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