A graphic to keep on hand

[Lorien]

when discussing government spending or the deficit:




Source: http://www.imow.org/economica/stories/viewStory?storyId=3657

[Urban Prairie]

1. No wonder the Rethugs want to reduce/eliminate entitlement spending...

After looking at that chart, they certainly are huge slices out of the whole pie!!



:sarcasm:

[NoNothing]

3. Note the caption

"Discretionary budget"

The vast majority of entitlement spending is not discretionary (hence the term, "entitlement"), and is not included in this chart.

[Lorien]

7. Got a link? Oh, and "Entitlement" was a term Reagan pushed. Pre-Reagan, it was called

"social welfare spending".

[Statistical]

10. Regardless of the term... Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid

are mandatory and excluded from the above graph.

Given combined those are roughly $1 trillion, making a graph only of the discretionary budget is misleading at best.
By Congressional action the pentagon budget could be made mandatory and thus would be removed from the graph as well.

[NoNothing]

11. Sure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_categories

And "entitlement" is not really a pejorative (at least, it shouldn't be) - it is a piece of budgetary jargon that refers to defined payments that are promised by policy to individuals. This spending is called also called "mandatory" because legislation *other* than the budget has already promised this money. This is more specific than "social welfare spending" which can include lots of things besides individual payments.

[guardian]

13. The graphic in the OP is very misleading

NoNothing is right. These charts showing "discretionary spending" only are very misleading. It's like an individual talking about their personal expenses and excluding mortgage/rent, food, auto from the monthly budget. All expenses should be examined in context of total spending. After all, a dollar spent on servicing the deficit interest is a dollar not available to spend on something else (like healthcare).

Some examples of non-misleading gov't spending categories:



http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_piecol.php?title=Federal%20Spending&year=2011&sname=&units=b&label=Pensions_Health%20Care_Defense_Welfare_Other&fed=787.633_898.002_928.479_464.588_755.158

[Lorien]

17. Um, WRONG

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

(scroll down)

[guardian]

20. WRONG is right

from your own link: http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

"...the figures are federal funds, which do not include trust funds — such as Social Security..."

By their own admission they are selectively excluding the biggest portion of the Goverment's outlay. Spending is spending. I don't care what your call it. A tax is a tax. I don't care if you call it a tax, a fee, insurance, or what. If money is involuntarily taken into the government's coffers then it is a tax.

When I see misleading charts like this, it makes me wonder if the other charts/data about military spending compared to other countries are equally misleading.

[Octafish]

2. But-but-but-who would defend us from Saddam Hussein and his WMD Drone of Death?

Money Trumps Peace. Always.

[hatrack]

8. You mean the Pterodactyls of Pterror?

:puke:

[Octafish]

12. Yes! The 'We may only have 45 minutes' one!

From the RummyIsFrosted Collection

[Statistical]

4. I like the sentiment but the graph is misleading. It excluded mandatory spending.

Mandatory spending is comprised of:

* Social Security - $544 billion
* Medicare - $325 billion
* Medicaid - $186 billion
* All other mandatory programs - $357 billion. These programs include Food Stamps, Unemployment Compensation, Child Nutrition, Child Tax Credits, Supplemental Security for the blind and disabled, Student Loans, and Retirement / Disability programs for Civil Servants, the Coast Guard and the Military

SS, Medicare, Medicaid are roughly $1 trillion combined.

Using false argument simply makes it easier for the opposition to knock it down.

[mod mom]

5. wow! Compare how it's grown since True Majority started using the Pie Graph:

http://www.truemajority.org/csba/priorities.php

Through in "homeland security" to make it sound like they're keeping us safe rather than enriching the military industrial complex. :mad:

[handmade34]

6. OMB

to go along with your excellent chart... http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/index.php?reptype=a

I was just catching up on some paperwork and had to research something... ran across this site. Probably not new to many people here but a good source to let us know who gets what and how much of our tax money

http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/visualizations/89ade5ae1b698c4b011b7034090a0347/comments/26a0fb88ada011ddbde3000255111976
edit to provide more direct link

[SoCalDem]

9. Here's a smaller version (easier to see)

:hi:

[guardian]

14. Smaller yes. But still misleading to the reader.

Charts showing only 'discretionary' spending should not be proliferated without putting them in context. They are essentially a LIE. Just like the Social Security 'lock box' has always been a big lie.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/budget_pie_gs.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

[Robb]

15. Discretionary? Not the whole picture. nt

[Lorien]

16. Like it or not hawks, the military eats up most of our budget

Would you prefer this budget graph instead?

?w=391&h=390

http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/lions-share-of-the-us-federal-budget-the-military/

[NoNothing]

18. That chart is even MORE misleading

Because it includes some things that are discretionary, like defense spending, and some things that are not, like debt service, and then leaves out other things that are not discretionary, like Medicare. In fact, the original source of that chart does not claim that it represents "federal spending" or "the budget," it claims it represents "where your *income taxes* go."

This is not about being a hawk. It is not to defend the bloated military budget that I point these things out, it is because if we fail to offer solutions that address the reality of our situation, we forfeit our ability to make policy. The first step to solving a problem is understanding the nature of a problem.

[guardian]

19. Like it or not, you can ignore reality and live in a fantasy land.

You are quite simply WRONG. Stop going only to your pet cause sites and try something like the Congressional Budget Office (www.cbo.gov) that's were I lifted the graphic in my previous response:

http://www.cbo.gov/budget/budget.cfm

Or try the Government Printing Office (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/) for more official budget/spending info published by US Federal Gov't itself.

Heck even Wikipedia has better info that what your are promulgating as 'information': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget