A Popular Principal, Wounded by Government’s Good Intentions

[proud2BlibKansan]

BURLINGTON, Vt. — It’s hard to find anyone here who believes that Joyce Irvine should have been removed as principal of Wheeler Elementary School.

John Mudasigana, one of many recent African refugees whose children attend the high-poverty school, says he is grateful for how Ms. Irvine and her teachers have helped his five children. “Everything is so good about the school,” he said, before taking his daughter Evangeline, 11, into the school’s dental clinic.

Ms. Irvine’s most recent job evaluation began, “Joyce has successfully completed a phenomenal year.” Jeanne Collins, Burlington’s school superintendent, calls Ms. Irvine “a leader among her colleagues” and “a very good principal.”

Beth Evans, a Wheeler teacher, said, “Joyce has done a great job,” and United States Senator Bernie Sanders noted all the enrichment programs, including summer school, that Ms. Irvine had added since becoming principal six years ago.

“She should not have been removed,” Mr. Sanders said in an interview. “I’ve walked that school with her — she seemed to know the name and life history of every child.”

Ms. Irvine wasn’t removed by anyone who had seen her work (often 80-hour weeks) at a school where 37 of 39 fifth graders were either refugees or special-ed children and where, much to Mr. Mudasigana’s delight, his daughter Evangeline learned to play the violin.

Ms. Irvine was removed because the Burlington School District wanted to qualify for up to $3 million in federal stimulus money for its dozen schools.

more . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/education/19winerip.html?_r=1&ref=education

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. A key excerpt:

Students take the reading test after one year in the country. Ms. Irvine tells a story about Mr. Mudasigana’s son Oscar and the fifth-grade test.

Oscar needed 20 minutes to read a passage on Neil Armstrong landing his Eagle spacecraft on the moon; it should have taken 5 minutes, she said, but Oscar was determined, reading out loud to himself.

The first question asked whether the passage was fact or fiction. “He said, ‘Oh, Mrs. Irvine, man don’t go on the moon, man don’t go on the back of eagles, this is not true,’ ” she recalled. “So he got the five follow-up questions wrong — penalized for a lack of experience.”

[Sabriel]

14. Yes, those tests are soooo unbiased.

Everyone knows Neil Armstrong's story! Just everyone.

Reminds me of the New York Regent's Exam question about tennis and country clubs...given to students who had never played tennis or seen a country club.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. One year my 1st graders had to read a story about a yacht

They lived in a housing project where it was too dangerous to play outside because of crime. The vast majority of them had never even been to a park with a pond, much less knew what a yacht was.

[bobbolink]

84. Teachers are squeezed into an impossible corner, and the children are the victims.

I have an Indian friend who is finishing up her Ph.D. in education, and being pushed by ignorance on both sides. I have immense respect for her.

Thank you for seeing the world from the vantage point of your students! :yourock:

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. And thank you for reminding us always that we must address poverty

[Winterblues]

37. Everyone that has reached fifth grade should know who he was.

If they don't then there is something damn wrong with our education system..

[Catshrink]

42. She's talking about a child who had been in the country a year.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Let's give you a test on African culture

And to make it even more interesting, let's do it in a different language.

[Winterblues]

56. I don't live in Africa nor do I speak other languages.

However the first man on the moon transcends countries or continents or ??? We are talking about the fifth grade in the USA. I believe that is something every fifth grader should know and would be surprised if they did not..in any country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Well surprise surprise

I know 5 year olds who come to kindergarten and they don't know their own name. I've taught probably close to a hundred kids who are 8, 9, or 10 years old, don't speak English and have never been to school. Some of them don't know how to use a pencil, not to mention read words in any language.

So a 5th grader who doesn't know about the moon landing is not at all surprising to me.

[msanthrope]

66. And did you fail those students? Or did you pass them through

at the end of the year?

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. I am not a classroom teacher so it's not my job to pass or fail them

[NJmaverick]

2. What I find puzzling is that the Principal's plan to improve the education program

was to attract better students rather than to better educate the ones they had. I can't help but feel that sort of improvement plan is not really an improvement at all.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. First of all, it's princiPAL

Secondly I have no idea where you get that. This principal brought in programs for her students. Where does it say anything about her wanting to attract "better" students??

[NJmaverick]

8. I read the article

the principal's plan to improve the education system was to attract "middle class students" through their arts program. She expected that those new students would raise the school's test scores. In my mind that sure sounds like gaming the system. I would have preferred to see a plan that involved improving the test scores of the existing students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Reading. It's fundamental.

While doing her regular job, Ms. Irvine also developed a new arts curriculum. She got a grant for a staff trip to the Kennedy Center in Washington for arts training. She rented vans so teachers could visit arts magnets in nearby states. She created partnerships with local theater groups and artists. In English class, to learn characterization, children now write a one-person play and perform it at Burlington’s Very Merry Theater.

A sign of her effectiveness: an influx of new students, so that half the early grades will consist of middle-class pupils this fall.

Ms. Irvine predicts that in two years, when these new “magnet” students are old enough to take the state tests, scores will jump, not because the school is necessarily better, but because the tests are geared to the middle class.

Nowhere does it say her motive was to attract "better" students. The influx of new students is a side effect of the improvements initiated by this principal. It's abundantly clear her intentions were to improve the school for the kids who are currently enrolled. Her compassion and level of commitment to those children comes through very clearly in the article. Even Bernie Sanders saw that.

[NJmaverick]

28. You're right reading is fundamental

<<Ms. Irvine predicts that in two years, when these new “magnet” students are old enough to take the state tests, scores will jump, not because the school is necessarily better, but because the tests are geared to the middle class.>>

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. You are going to have to show us where it says that was her intent

[NJmaverick]

39. Right after you show me the specific programs that improve the scores of the existing

students

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. It's in the article plus I posted an excerpt

Read.

[NJmaverick]

54. humor me, just cut a paste a couple of them

[Raineyb]

36. Your excerpt merely reinforces that you cannot read for comprehension.

Nothing in that statement shows that her plan to improve the school consisted of attracting "better" students to up the scores. The raising of scores because more middle class students are in the school is a side effect of the things she'd been doing to improve the school for the students who are already there.

Reading is fundamental. You should try it.

[NJmaverick]

40. why the hostile response?

[msanthrope]

49. Because you dared to ask questions. n/t

[Angry Dragon]

3. I get angry every time I read an article like this

It seems that duncan and obama are just trying to destroy the education system in this country.

Education is not a factory, it should not be made into a for profit center. Children are not the same, each is an individual and should be treated that way. Each of us learns in a different way than others.

I shake my head and wonder why they are trying to dumb down the people of this country.

[NJmaverick]

4. Offering money to schools, so they can improve

is "dumb(ing) down the people of this country"?:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Taking away their right to govern their own schools is an insult

Sorry you don't see that.

[NJmaverick]

9. The grant is optional, nothing is being taken away

and there are 4 options available to those wanting the grants

The grant is contingent on schools agreeing to follow one of the four models outlined in the application including:

* replace the principal, replace up to one-half of the teachers, and implement curriculum reform and professional development
* close the school, or convert it so that it can be re-opened as a charter school or as a school that is under an education management organization
* completely close the school and send the higher-achieving students to another school within the same district
* replace the principal, implement curriculum reform and professional development

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Ok. You try to operate a school in a low income neighborhood on the local budget alone

I've spent 30 years teaching in these schools. We absolutely cannot survive without federal funding. Making us now compete for it is a recipe for failure. But failure is what Duncan wants. And he's getting his wish.

[NJmaverick]

29. This is additional funding. It shouldn't characterized as changing the rules on existing funding

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Additional funding that is necessary for these schools to thrive

Title I funding is being reduced.

You really need to do your homework on this topic and quit defending Arne's policies. Those if us who actually work in the field have pointed out over and over how they are destroying schools. This article is a graphic example.

[NJmaverick]

34. Sounds like you are trying to shut me up

that you think the American public shouldn't question how their taxes are spent. Frankly considering that the fact remains that our nation's schools are badly failing, I think that is possibly the worst thing we can do.

Suggesting more of the same or money with out direction have little to no chance for success. I can appreciate that change is rough on those in the middle of it, but I just don't see that there is any choice. Our nation is falling behind in the world and our education shortcomings are a major contributor to that problem.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. I want you to educate yourself

There are dozens of teachers here on DU who have been trying to tell you for months now that our schools are being broken by Arne Duncan and the president. We work In the field; we know what's happening and we are not able to do anything about it except post here on DU to try to explain what's going on.

Our communities are broken. The kids I teach are poor and most don't speak English. I can't fix poor and it takes at least 5 years to become fluent in English. Understanding that goes a long way toward understanding the massive task it is to educate our kids. But wealthy and powerful men with agendas that don't serve what's best for our kids are determined to raise the bar for the kids even higher. And instead of giving us the resources we NEED and we have been asking for for literally decades, we are seeing federal funding reduced and we are being made to jump through hoops in a contest (again where we have zero control) to get the funding we need to survive. Not to excel or even to thrive, but merely to survive.

Let's remember that in a competition there is always a winner and a loser. And when schools are ranked, there will always be a bottom. That's Arne's plan. I teach the kids on the bottom, destined to be the losers in the contest.

Our kids deserve better. They didn't choose to be born poor or to grow up in a home where English isn't spoken. Making them compete for resources is just downright cruel.

[NJmaverick]

60. So that was an example of your teaching techniques?

I have not seen a sold fact based case made against Arne Duncan. I am not someone who follows anyone blindly. I am going to question and examine everything with a critical eye. I also know that excuses are much easier to make than producing results. So when I see posts filled with only lists of excuses as to why our system has failed our children, red flags are raised with me. All successful systems are about identifying problems and finding solutions. Attacking Arne Duncan's efforts to make things better is not part of the solution, in my opinion.

http://www.teachersofcolor.com/2010/03/presidents-race-to-the-top-kick-off/

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Arne Duncan is not trying to make anything better

If you really believe that we're done.

[NJmaverick]

65. You're right if you honestly believe he and the President are evil people

trying to ruin our nation's already sub-par education system, then we are done. I can't find common ground with someone who believes such things.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. I don't believe our education system is subpar

It needs work, yes, but the problem is in our culture that doesn't value education or children. Like I said, if you want to fix our schools, fix poverty.

[KakistocracyHater]

90. those men WANT to break education-their goal is child labor

I am certain of it. They will then claim it makes the U.S. more "competitive", with the lower wages of a child being more in line with the Third World we are joining.

[bluethruandthru]

63. Looks like there aren't many choices in those "choices". n/t

[Angry Dragon]

10. The way they are doing it ..... YES

This is not the first op or article I have read about the new system that is being put in place across this country.

Give it some years and then get back to me and tell me I am wrong.

Putting money into education is a good thing, but they are setting charters for profit, I just feel they are going about it the wrong way.

[NJmaverick]

11. If you are going to give money to improve a bad school

there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, in requiring the school to change the way they do business. To just throw money at problem with no direction, seems like a good way to waste money.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. How about throwing money at a school that has made great improvements

and has a dynamic and effective principal? That's the case here. Removing the principal is removing one of the key components of that success. This school has proven it deserves any federal funding available. Seems like you would want to add on to the success rather than making them start all over with a new principal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. It's a huge intrusion on local control

And local control is the foundation for our democratic public education system.

[Angry Dragon]

12. Are you disagreeing with me??

Just asking............

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Oh absolutely not

Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Robb]

13. Fed money comes with strings, that's part of the problem.

Local governments can't put their own signage on interstates that go through their towns, or pick the speed limit.

And yes, I know roads are not the same as schools. But money is money; locally-controlled schools would be the ideal, as would schools wholly unreliant on federal funding -- which would make situations such as this never have to happen.

A new tax structure, perhaps, with a federal reduction of some kind matched by a raise in locally-collected taxes -- money that changes hands fewer times must be less diminished by the time it arrives at its destination, no? :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. For decades, the only 'string' has been serving low income kids

Title I money has been given to schools serving low income kids for years without making the schools jump through any hoops. And many of them have developed innovative and successful programs with that Title I money.

[Robb]

25. No, there have always been strings

...except mostly it's been ones I've agreed with -- no race discrimination in the 60s, no sexual discrimination in the 70s, no asbestos in the 80s.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Yes you are correct

I should have said there were no strings involving test scores.

[Robb]

27. ...the 90s. And beyond.

:hi:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. There was a school in Nebraska I read about recently. Same thing.

Very popular principal. She had helped the school improve immensely. But because her test scores didn't meet the federal criteria, she was fired.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Well welcome to DU

:hi:

[Dappleganger]

31. I hope you Arne Duncan lovers are proud of this move...

you need to own it.

[LWolf]

33. + 1,000,000

[NJmaverick]

38. I am glad Arne is aggressively pursuing positive changes in our failed education system

the idea of more of the same will simply not work

[LWolf]

41. Except that the changes he is pursuing are not "positive," and

they aren't really changes. He's just accelerated the Bush agenda, and Bush just accelerated the Reagan agenda.

Destruction of public education. De-regulation, privatization, union-busting.

[NJmaverick]

43. That was a very vague description. I prefer to work in specifics

I like the idea of requiring failed schools to change before money is given to them. You know many teachers blame the administration of the schools, but when the administration is held accountable, we are being told that's wrong to.

I get that change is unnerving and difficult and those in the system undergoing radical change are often unhappy about it and unfortunately they are even sometimes hurt. Do you agree the current system is failing and needs change? If so, what is the change you propose.

[LWolf]

47. The system needs work, it's true.

I'm not opposed to change. But then, you don't know me.

You don't know that I've spent most of my career in district, PUBLIC, non-charter "schools of choice," demonstrating that, given the flexibility to do so, we can greatly improve the quality of learning and the school culture our students experience.

I'm opposed to harmful, destructive change. And that's what Obama and Duncan are pushing.

Schools have "failed" for good reason. It's been a decades-long erosion, beginning with Ronald Reagan's anti-education agenda, which has continued unabated since his tenure.

Of course, we may not agree with what constitutes school "failure." Considering that student success, learning, and yes, test scores are impacted first and foremost, by what happens before they ever step through the door in kindergarten, it's not a school failure. It's a societal failure. And to turn that around, the focus is going to have to zoom in on those societal failures and address them. Start with poverty.

Still, there are plenty of things that need improvement in the system. None of which are addressed by RTTT, privatization, or union busting.

I don't know a single teacher that opposes positive change. I'm lucky enough to have worked for mostly decent admins, and some great admins, and they don't oppose positive change, either. The only members within the system I've noticed OPPOSING positive change tend to be politicians, local, state, and federal, churches, and sometimes parents.

That's the ironic thing about change. When we institute change, parents, and others in the rest of the community often howl "that's not how we did it when I was in school!!!!" and create obstacles. At the same time they love to complain and scapegoat their schools for "failing."

I know that you are a hard-core Obama supporter, and that you feel you need to back everything he says and does to show partisan loyalty and support his administration. Regardless, this is an important issue, and he is wrong. Since you asked, here are many of the changes I've been an advocate for over the last couple of decades; I've posted them at DU a few times a year for 7 years now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=219&topic_id=26438&mesg_id=26493

[NJmaverick]

50. That's a long list, sot I will take up one issue

you say we need smaller class size. Now class size has steadily shrunk over the years, yet results have gotten worse. Even more puzzling is that there have been great strides in technology to make teachers more productive. Word processing to produce handouts, Power Point presentations, computer aided learning programs and similar technological teaching aids would seem to increase a teacher's ability to teach more rather than less students. So I don't see how shrinking class size even more will fix our educational short comings.

[Catshrink]

67. Class size has shrunk? In what world?

Our average class size has gone from 24 to 40 in 3 years. And as for your technological suggestions? We've been doing that for years. You think we still use the ditto machine? :rofl: You think we don't use powerpoint? :rofl: Of course, PowerPoint must be used appropriately.

Do you understand the difference in classroom management and methodologies between a class of 24 and one of 40? And the extra administrative work? In high school with 5 sections (some schools have more) that's 200 essays for an English teacher, 200 math assignments. Some lessons can be done on computer but not student generated writing, student generated responses. This is where critical thinking emerges and it can't be graded by machine.

I suggest you make an appointment with a school and go observe. You might be surprised at what you see. Right now, you're offering a lot of opinions that have little connection to the reality of education today. Educate yourself.

[NJmaverick]

80. I am observing teaching styles right here

[Catshrink]

87. Care to explain that?

Name some teaching styles for me, while you're at it. Please, by all means, share your preferred pedagogy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. Class size has not shrunk

Where are you getting this stuff?

[LWolf]

83. When you refer to anything that has been done "over the years,"

please remember that it's very rare for anything to have been done wide scale. It may have been done in one school, one district, one state, or scattered around, but rarely done everywhere.

Class size has been lowered, in some places, for some period of time, in quite a few places. But it's not universal.

Since 1995, the beginning of the state version of the "standards and accountability movement" and high stakes testing, my class sizes have ranged from (42) K-4th graders (a multi-age classroom and school) to (20) 2nd and 3rd graders (California class-size reduction program.) Generally, though, except for teaching 2nd and 3rd grades in CA under class-size reduction, they've averaged about 30 per class every year; last year my 3 classes had 28, 29, and 32 students, respectively.

That's teaching in two states, both large and small districts, both large and small schools, and across a range of 1200 miles.

Bear in mind that there is a body of research that shows optimum class size to be 15 students. While I am not a fly on the wall in every district in every state, I have worked with and communicated with teachers across the nation. I've not heard that class sizes have shrunk to those optimum levels in any public school. Here is just one link referencing just one study:

http://www.21k12.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80:small-class-size-what-the-research-says&catid=35:selected-writings-jm&Itemid=90

And class size reduction can be done ineffectively. Take California, for example. In the 90s, we implemented class size reduction to 20 per class K-3 wholesale. What did that mean?

It meant that schools were scrambling frantically just to find classrooms to house all those extra classes. We needed 1/3 more classrooms than we had. Then there was the teacher issue; adding that many classrooms, that fast, meant that we needed 1/3 more teachers, too. My district recruited all the way to Canada to find them. This is the only time in my career that I experienced more than a rare, micro-fraction of colleagues who were not as competent as they could have been. My district, and many others, were hiring any warm body with enough units to get temporary licenses to make sure there was a teacher in every class. Sure, they gave them a couple months of "staff development" before they dumped them in the classrooms, but still...

Kind of like what will happen if the "fire all the teachers" and replace them with TFA and under-qualified rookies, because they have less power, and cost less money, agenda proceeds.

Class size reduction has to be implemented intelligently to be effective.

Setting aside the academic advantages available with small class sizes managed well, there's a bigger effect that isn't automatically going to show up in test scores. It's the social aspect. It's conventional wisdom these days to talk about bullying and unfriendly school environments. Guess what? A high ratio of adults to students on campus, and in the classroom, produces a safer, more respectful environment. It allows us to notice and address social issues, behavior issues, and learning problems earlier and more completely.

That's why I also advocate for smaller schools, which you didn't mention. Smaller districts, as well. They are less bureaucratic and more flexible about finding ways to get things done.

That's not about test scores. It's about making school a positive place to be, and learning a positive experience. Those things are important to teachers, to students, and to their families.

As far as advanced technology goes...

I can use powerpoint. I rarely do, because I don't lecture much. Whole-class lecture is efficient for presenting information, but it's one of the least efficient methods of getting students to engage with that information.

I word process all the time, because I can customize handouts. It's more time consuming, of course, than just using a handout already produced by a commercial publisher, but usually worth it.

Remember, though, the budget. I can word process a document, but that doesn't mean that I can make copies of it for the class. I have a copy budget. That budget has been larger in some schools and districts, and smaller in others, but it's ever-present, and limits productivity in that area somewhat.

Technology? I love my document camera and projector. I got a grant that will provide me with a smart board next year. I'd like to experiment with clickers. But student time for "computer-aided learning programs?" Extremely limited. I have 2 student computers in a classroom of 32. I can sign up to go to the lab...every once in awhile, if it's not a testing cycle. Our students use our lab to take the required standardized tests. It takes a few weeks to get every student in our school through a testing cycle. Then there will be a couple of weeks off where everyone rushes to schedule lab time, and a new cycle of testing will begin, shutting us out. The machines in the lab are old, the server needs updating, and, when you have a whole class trying to use computers for anything, everything is agonizingly slow. Those are all budget issues. Student access to technology is limited by budget and time.

That, and I haven't been much impressed with what I've seen of "computer aided learning programs." I'm always hopeful, though. For decent, useful programming, and for actual access to technology to use it.

Bear in mind that when I say "I," and relate my own experiences, it's not all about me. I'm not unique; just one of millions of teachers across the nation, and we all face some of the same obstacles.

Teaching, though, isn't sitting kids down in front of a screen, walking them through procedures, and expecting the machine to do the teaching. Just like parenting, face-to-face interaction is necessary. As much small group and one-on-one interaction as possible (see "class size reduction.")

Kids aren't parts on an assembly line. Figuring out what they are having problems with, and why, and what to do about it, requires a live person. One who knows the student. Students are individuals, and teaching is more than group presentation; it's individual coaching and mentoring, too.

So yes...I say we need small class sizes.

Finally...edited to add:

It IS a long list. It has to be, because there is more than a single issue involved, and there are many underlying sources of the problems we face. The public education system is a complex organism.

[NJmaverick]

85. Thank you, for taking the time to share your experiences with me

I found them quite educational.

[LWolf]

86. You're welcome. nt

[Catshrink]

44. Explain how this is a positive change.

This principal's team was working; dismantling it by removing its leader makes no sense.

[NJmaverick]

45. I think after 6 years the school shouldn't still be failing

so we do not agree on what "working" means

[Catshrink]

46. Oh you think....

Is the school still in a high poverty area? Do you expect the principal to fix that? What about the number of special eduation students - is that the same? How about the number of ELL students? There are many factors that can lead to a school "failing" and most of them are out of the control of the school staff.

Remember, the status is based on a test given on one day without regard for other factors that affect the school.

[NJmaverick]

48. There are many highly successfulness high poverty schools

so I don't think that should be used as an excuse for 6 years of failure

http://www.teachersofcolor.com/2009/04/uncovering-the-secrets-of-high-poverty-high-success-schools/

[msanthrope]

51. Very interesting link you posted.

I especially liked the explosion of the myth that teachers are too busy to really improve because they are spending too much time on testing.


"Among the many legacies of No Child Left Behind in its present form, the worst will be the excuse by school leaders that they “don’t have time” for effective practices such as those used in the 90/90/90 schools, because they must focus on improvements in test scores. In fact, the time that all of us have is nearly equal. The only question is whether we consider the available research, and use that time wisely."

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Poverty has been failing our kids for decades

Our elected officials have failed our kids for my entire teaching career. Dysfunctional families fail our kids. Crime fails our kids. Incarcerated parents fail our kids. Deported parents fail our kids.

No one ever blames any of those factors.

But when a school doesn't perform miracles (with less money every year) in only 6 years, it's perfectly okay to criticize the school and the teachers.

[NJmaverick]

58. excuses have been failing our children

http://www.teachersofcolor.com/2010/03/presidents-race-to-the-top-kick-off/

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Reasons are not excuses

Want to fix our schools? Fix poverty.

And while you're at it find me a magic wand to wave over the kids who don't speak English.

[NJmaverick]

62. Poverty is an excuse as there are many successful high poverty schools

like the one in the link I just provided in the post you responded to.

[Catshrink]

68. Get out, visit the schools.

Those successful schools no doubt have involved parents. That's a huge difference. How do you propose to meet the needs of kids who don't speak English? Who have reading difficulties? What happens to a 7th grade child who reads at the 3rd grade level? Or has 4th grade math skills?

You can't cherry pick situations. Why is that ONE school successful? What exactly does it do differently?

I'm afraid you've managed to convince me that you live in a dream world so separate from reality that you're afraid to investigate in person for fear it would make your preconceived ideas crumble. It's a well-founded fear.

[msanthrope]

73. "What exactly does it do differently?" That's your job, as a teacher, to find

out.

As the article points out, the research is out there. Why are these schools successful? It's in the link provided, in bullet points.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. And much like the high poverty school where I worked and where we had great success,

politicians and legislation are robbing this school of a key component of their success by forcing the removal of the principal.

[NJmaverick]

75. You didn't read the article, as it addressed all of your points

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. I worked in one for over a decade

We were the top performing school in the district. We had a principal much like the one in the article who worked 80 hours a week and brought in extra programs. We had a health clinic that provided medical and dental care to all of our students plus the community. We had a social worker and a truancy officer whose work resulted in 98% average daily attendance. 100% of our parents attended parent teacher conferences. Our test scores were #1 in the district. And we made AYP every year.

So please don't lecture me about success in high poverty schools. I've lived it.

On edit, please note my use of the past tense. This highly successful school was awarded for its success with the ultimate punishment. It was closed.

[msanthrope]

69. Fixing poverty doesn't change values and priorities.

If education simply isn't valued by a family, then no amount of money is going to change that fact.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. You can still spark a love of learning in a child

The day I stop believing that is the day I need to quit this business.

[msanthrope]

81. Of course you can, and again, nothing proposed by the President

and Arne Duncan really stops you from doing that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. No one will ever stop me from that

But that doesn't raise test scores.

[Catshrink]

78. But you're going to blame the teacher anyway, right?

[msanthrope]

82. Wrong. n/t

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawson Leery]

35. I oppose Federal control of education.

NCLB must be scrapped, NOW!