An analogy. Home improvement dude completely screws up your new kitchen.

[NRaleighLiberal]

everything about it is wrong. Complete disaster.

You bring someone in to fix it, but they have to spend time behind the walls, on foundational stuff - and only give them a few weeks. You decide it isn't working out, so you fire them and bring back the dude who screwed it up in the first place because you saw advertisements that they are the best for the job.

Watching all of the spin (news) coming out, seems as though the coming election is going to mirror this analogy - independents breaking Repub 50 plus percent to 30 percent?

I am thinking that this country, as a whole, deserves exactly what it gets due to its collective stupidity. Too bad that those of us who know better could get punished right along with them.

[jobycom]

1. The election ain't happened yet.

Long way to November. I think people will be slower to return to the Republicans than the polls and pundits assume. Pollsters ask questions based on their assumptions, and those assumptions aren't always the relevant questions to ask.

[Cleita]

9. If all those votes are actually counted, then I don't

see a prayer for the Republicans taking power for a long time, however, it's a big IF.

[NRaleighLiberal]

18. You and I and we here know that. But as far as I can tell, the media is pushing

the switch as a given. And we know how many people just swallow whatever they are told by the Teevee box or radio.

I have to say, I am worried.

[jobycom]

32. Yeah, that's their game. Influence the vote by convincing everyone that everyone wants a Republican

Congress. Same as always, we have to beat the Republicans and the media.

[Canuckistanian]

39. I'm with you

Public support for the GOP is soft at best - a mile wide and an inch deep.

The problem is indeed with the media and perceptions.

But the Dems aren't making this easy with their tolerance acceptance of Blue Dogs.

They blur the line so effectively, that people throw their hands up and vote either way.

[jobycom]

45. I don't agree with the Blue Dog part.

There are a lot of places a progressive has zero chance. Less than zero, even, since you run a progressive and you just make it more likely a far right candidate can win. If we refuse to run Blue Dogs, we will never win Congress, and it just won't matter how pure the rest of the party is.

People just don't get politics. In many countries, for instance, you have a multi-party system. After an election, if no party controls a majority of the legislature, then two or more parties have to form an alliance and run things together. So you can have a large moderate party allie with a smaller liberal or conservative party. The two or more parties in the alliance have to work together, both giving the other enough to keep them in the alliance. The larger the party in that alliance, the closer they come to getting the lion's share of what they want. (Yeah, I know, that's not a big secret).

In America, we have almost the same thing, except we work out our alliances before the election instead of after it. We work it out in the primaries. Each party in each district votes on nominees to face each other. If the party in a district wants a progressive (or regressive), it nominates a progressive. If the district is moderate, it generally nominates a moderate. When the primaries are done, the district chooses between the two candidates. If it's a moderate district and the Dem candidate is a far leftie, that candidate is just going to lose, and the Repubs win that district. If the Repubs, though, nominate a far rightie and the Dems nominate a moderate, the moderate will win. So we get a Blue Dog. If we didn't get the Blue Dog, we'd get a Republican. If the district could have elected a progressive, a progressive would have won that district for his or party in the first place. If they can't even win the party nomination, they sure aren't going to win the district.

So we work out all the alliances of progressive and moderate and conservative during the primaries. That's our alliance, that's when each party forms its coalition. The general then decides.

You're not going to elect a progressive in a moderate district (with a few rare exceptions of a candidate just really being beloved and trusted, but that's based on personality, and it takes an exceptional personality. Most districts do decide between two candidates with very little difference, as you say, but that's because most districts are carefully drawn to include people of similar political views, to favor whichever party gets to draw the lines that decade. A candidate out of step with the district--whether that candidate is leftie, rightie, or dead armadillo-y, just isn't going to win in that district.

If the party didn't accept every candidate the people elected, it would first of all be anti-democratic and hypocritical, and second of all be completely irrelevant. It could not form a winning coalition, and it would just sit on the sidelines watching the other party get everything it wanted unopposed.

The media backs the conservatives. They are a 24 hour infomercial for the Republican Party. They are the advertising department of the Republican Party. To win, things have to be so bad that people see through the lies and distortions of the media. A hungry voter can't be convinced that he or she isn't hungry. But a voter with maybe a little rumble now and then can be convinced that things could be worse, and they can be convinced that someone else is getting all their food, and that's what the media does. That's our enemy.

Any talk of purifying the party or getting rid of the Blue Dogs is just self-destructive. Politics is about building a majority, not about purifying a minority.

[KingFlorez]

2. The problem is, many voters like to teach a lesson

It's not about performance, it's about anger and no thought is given to how performance will be.

[sandnsea]

4. No, it's about stupid

That is dressed in a hundred different excuses.

[sandnsea]

3. And the first guy took all your money too

So now you don't have any money to pay the second guy, who actually has a bigger job to do than the first guy did.

[Oregone]

5. What if the guy that came in just uses duct tape and pretty trim on the windows to keep it together?

[Kweli4Real]

10. Is that what you REALLY believe the Obama Administration is doing ...

Using duct tape and pretty trim?

[Skittles]

16. bandaid fixes?

YES

[Skittles]

11. yes

completely forgotten in their latest meme

[JuniperLea]

15. Peachy!

Isn't that the definition of dysfunctional? I'm sure that would suit many just fine.

[uppityperson]

17. Hey, you gotta problem with duct tape?

[rpannier]

29. Duct tape is what made society great

Duct tape is the answer to fixing everything

[AsahinaKimi]

31. Aarrrrrroooooooooooooooo???

[Zhade]

26. CHECKMATE.

That was beautiful.

[uppityperson]

6. k&r and up to zero again

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. thanks! I know it isn't a perfect analogy, but people here are improving it!

[sendero]

7. Better analogy..

.... you hire someone to fix your kitchen and they screw it up royally.

So you hire a new guy. Then you notice that he's paying the assholes that screwed it up the first time to work on it some more. Not only are they not fixing the kitchen, they are not paying for fucking it up in the first place, and in fact they are getting paid AGAIN. With YOUR MONEY.

That's what's happening pal, only most people are too fucking ignorant to get it.

[NRaleighLiberal]

20. Yep. I can't argue with that at all.

[JHB]

41. +1 n/t

[griffi94]

8. let's add to your analogy

these are the only 2 fix-it guys in town. the first one screwed it up royally, i mean total FUBAR.
the sink is connected to the oven so everytime you try to bake cookies, you flood the kitchen. the disposal is connected to the cooktop and so on and so forth. the kitchen is completely dysfunctional.

you call the other fix-it guy and he puts together a list of things to get the kitchen at least functional...you know fix the sink, the oven and the stove. these are the priorities.

the new guy shows up and starts recaulking the counters.....then tinkering with the cabinet doors and so on and so forth. on the priority items the new guy brings in the same crew the old guy used.
the doors match but the kitchen is still dysfunctional.

by now you've been without a working kitchen for years...you're going broke eating every meal out. the new guy didn't really make the kitchen work. there are only 2 games in town so i think a lot of folks will keep switching back & forth till something works......or the house falls down.

[Skittles]

13. GRIFFI94 NAILS IT

[NRaleighLiberal]

22. And even better. Thanks. Better, and more depressing (and realistic)

[Soylent Brice]

25. analogy perfected. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

42. Pefect. The analogy is complete.

:thumbsup:

[branders seine]

12. "independent" in the US means wacko ignorant sheeple,

easily led around by the nose by anyone on TV, and too gutless to stand for anything

[griffi94]

23. that may be what it means to you

but i think a lot of indies who normally lean right voted for obama in 08 because they recognized that the gop was bankrupt of any new ideas.

obama sold them on the idea that if he became president things would change and be different. unfortunately, so far, things look about the same to john q public. unemployment is still high, economy is still fucked, foreclosures still at record highs, still in a recession. bankers got theirs, insurance ceos got theirs. the regular folks are still waiting.

these are the indies that are peeling off. it's not their fault things aren't better. the promised change just looks like more of the same, so i'm not all surprised that the indies are bolting.

it's hard to have high minded ideals when you're out of work, out of money and behind on the mortgage.
will the repubs help...nope, but if you're drowning anyway what difference does it make who the captain of the boat is.

[Zhade]

28. Not THIS old-school liberal independent.

NT!

[JVS]

38. Actually the term independent has been changed a bit since Republicans fled their own party after...

Bush's failures became too obvious to ignore. So now they're Rep-leaning independents who think that Bush was too liberal. Nuts!

[Skittles]

14. this is rich

so essentially, the country has a choice between mediocre and completely fucked, and "those who know better" are upset we aren't excited about mediocre. Hoo boy.

[Hissyspit]

21. Here's a variation:

First guy ruins your kitchen. Second guy comes in and starts building you a new kitchen on a foundation of lime Jello, some of that Jello left over from the first guy's work. Everyone who immediately says using Jello is a bad idea is told not to criticize the use of Jello, saying it's only been six months, then it's eight months, then one and half years, then four years... give it some time.

Meanwhile, it's still Jello.

[aquart]

24. What, exactly, does that lofty sense of superiority accomplish?

[NRaleighLiberal]

27. got a problem with the truth?

[jp11]

30. Way wrong answer.

Your analogy doesn't fit at all. The Democratic party has marginalized and even tossed the left to the wind and if/when the entire left doesn't jump to their feet and go running to rally up voters and get everyone to donate, or register because they have been told 'shut up you're trying to get McCain/Palin elected or you're going to get Palin elected for criticizing the president' it will be their fault if republicans gain ground. It won't be our 'leaders' fault for telling the people you are trying to put blame on that they don't matter and 'we don't need you', except of course when they run for something, that's when they are supposed to dance like good little monkeys right? But it is okay because they got what they deserved, our leader's sure showed them.

[Strelnikov_]

33. Down with the Kerensky Government . . .

Long Live the Tsar!!!!!!!!!!!!



~



+++++++



~



Yes, people really are that stupid.

[branders seine]

34. Another analogy--new kitchen...

Your new house has an old, worn-out kitchen. The home improvement dude shows you plans for new sink, dishwasher, marble counters, gourmet stove, etc., and quotes you a fair price.

He works for 18 months, during which time he replaces the sink with an identical used one, sets a package of three scrubby sponges beside the sink and tells you there's your dishwasher, tells you that you do not need granite countertops--plywood will do, sets a Wal-Mart charcoal grill on the floor where the stove was supposed to go . . . you get the picture.

Then, when you complain, all the home improvement dude's pals set up camp in the middle of the kitchen floor screaming at you for having expected too much and claim in unison that their friend never really *promised* all that shiny stuff. Besides, it's only been 18 months, and your old kitchen was *really* fucked up.

I think Americans get what they get, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what they want, need or deserve.

[griffi94]

36. now there's an analogy

good one and right on the money.

[lib2DaBone]

43. Well said. You saved for 8 years and planned your new kitchen...

you went without and scrimped and saved. You pay cash. They tell you they will be ther MOnday morning. But the contractors never show up.... and... they keep your money.

Your neighbors tell you it's YOUR fault for believing that a kitchen could actually contain a dishwasher and a microwave oven.... They don't have thse things in Viet Nam.. how come you expect them here in America? (Unless of course you are a Senator or a Congress Person.. then you get these things for free.)

[Taitertots]

35. So in the analogy, Bush was the first dude

For the analogy to work, the second dude needs to avoid doing what you ask (DADT, Health care reform, 2nd New Deal) and continue doing most of what the previous dude did(2 wars, fleecing the middle class). Now you are looking for someone who isn't either one, but there are only two guys you can afford.

Then the second dude's friends come in and tell you that you should be happy with the below expectations job he did because at least it wasn't the first guy anymore.

[JVS]

37. It's too bad that the second contractor keeps trying to reach consensus with the first contractor

[GReedDiamond]

40. I know a guy, he came into this place where I provide consulting...

...services yesterday. He's a failed entrepreneur who had a high-end tee shirt brand, until he ran the business into the ground (including stiffing many contractors and employees when he went under), because he got greedy and thought his brand would be the next "Ed Hardy" phenomena, but he had little, if any, of the business acumen of a Christian Audigier, and so, his brand failed.

Now he is a lowly employee/"designer" of some other fashion brand, so he's back to get some graphics done for his new boss. I should describe him, so you get an idea of his personality/lifestyle: he's a mid-30-ish "punk rock" (poseur) with tattoos allover, likes to party. He's a nice enough guy (if you overlook how he screwed his contractors/former employees), but quite oblivious to the shit that's happened in this country over the last 10 years, because he simply has not been paying attention.

So he wraps up his business with us, and, on his way out he says "I thought you'd like to know I've changed my voter registration to Republican, because I think the Republicans will do a better job getting the Country back on track moreso than Obummer." (Yeah, he said "Obummer.") I responded with "so you think the very same people who fucked up everything to begin with are now gonna fix what they broke?" His response: hysterical laughter as he walked out the door...

I really, REALLY don't get this...how could seemingly intelligent people be so completely bamboozled by Repug propaganda and lies, in the face of thirty years worth of failed Repug policies which have resulted in the current maze of trouble we find ourselves in? And how is it they can blame Obama for not turning everything around in less than two years on the job?

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty disappointed in Obama so far, but not for the ridiculous, fabricated, often race-based reasons cited by Teabagger-types. I'm one of those life-long, far left-of-center-type troublemakers who, to line up a few of my ponies, wants single payer healthcare for all; real economic stimulus in the form of developing green/renewable energy sources and infrastructure repair/development; legal pot (medicinal, industrial and recreational); the Patriot Act repealed; the financial services industry heavily regulated and crooked banksters jailed, not rewarded; supports Gay marriage, and who believes Gays should be allowed in the military; and I want the military out of Afghanistan/Iraq not now, not yesterday, but years ago. I think (hope?) most here know where I'm coming from.

I'm afraid we are going to encounter more and more of these confused, misinformed, ignorant and FRIGHTENED people as we get closer to the 2012 election cycle. And confused, misinformed, ignorant, FRIGHTENED people are what makes the Repug Party everything it is: a disaster for the Country, and the World.

[LWolf]

44. Bad analogy.

A home improvement dude screws up my plumbing and my wiring. I bring someone in to fix it, and he:

1. Hires the first dude's employees to "fix" things by doing more of the same shit job.

2. He "fixes" the wiring, but does not replace or update the old fuse box to make sure the new wiring won't blow fuses.

3. He "fixes" the plumbing inside, but neglects to make sure that the plumbing outside is below the frost line.

4. When his "fixes" don't work, he wants me to pay him to fix it all over again, promising to get it right this time, with the same materials, staff, and plan.