Liberals want to raise taxes

[nadinbrzezinski]

why we are firing cops...

Jeesus age... Uniins and Liberals are the problem!!! Never mind that if we don't have money, we cannot fund the Police Department.

Right now the Dylan Ratigan show... this is kind of amazing...

[w4rma]

1. Republicans want to raise taxes too, just not on billionaires. (nt)

[JuniperLea]

2. Yep...

I'm sick of paying their share.

[maxsolomon]

3. LIbruls want to let Tax Cuts on the rich EXPIRE

EXPIRE, damn you!

[damntexdem]

4. Oh, no! They're onto our plot!

How did they ever figure out that we wanted to raise taxes? Next thing, they'll snoop until they find out that we want to fully fund needed government programs and services! Oh, why did we ever have to start down this evil, caring road?

;-)

[SunnySong]

5. I want to raise taxes... most Americans (not just the very rich) simply don't pay enough

to cover all the services government provides...

That said we also need to curtail military spending to 2001 levels (IE 50% cut)

[Ozymanithrax]

6. I have no problem paying higher user fees.

At some point, this nation needs to grow up enough to quit raising the issues of 1776.

[LWolf]

7. Neoliberals.

Let go of the old "liberal" label. Neoliberals are now in power.

"Progressive" won't work, either. While to some it means "extremely liberal," to others, it's neoliberal. The DLC's think tank is "the progressive policy institute."

You could use "leftist," but there aren't many true leftists in the U.S., at least, not enough of them to notice.

That leaves you with a few choices:

"loony left"
"fringe left"
"extreme left"
"socialist"

All indicating people who, a generation ago, were moderates.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Most folks don't know the meaning of words anymore

but our DLC is truly the THIRD WAY, which is a polite way of calling fascists... and I know that is ahem controversial for some folks, but it is not me saying it... but actual honest to goodness political scientists.

The demonization of the left is part for the course.

But the rightie on the program going UNIONS, protect me from them evil UNIONS that are getting more powerful... (I wish)

Again another classic of that process.

[LWolf]

19. Yes. nt

[Chulanowa]

8. We need to fire more police

We spend enough on the actual military. We don't need urban paramilitaries with no accountability.

And yes, we need to raise taxes. The wealthy would not be wealthy without public infrastructure. They will not remain wealthy without public infrastructure. Even their robber baron antecedants had the length of vision needed to see that taxes are ultimately GOOD for business.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. So let me get this straight

we should all go the way of Oakland (which is a terrible department for other reasons) where they will be so thin that if you get your car stolen, well don't bother calling 9.11. In fact, only call them if somebody is trying to kill you and PERHAPS they will be able to respond.

Is this what we want to go to?

Hell my local police department is so thin that they don't do accident reports anymore unless somebody got killed.

By the way. that is the ideal for our American Conservative Right. Want a cop? HIRE YOUR OWN.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. and..do we want the ACTUAL military doing the local police work??

Sounds pretty third-world-country, military dictatorship to me.

and then do we go back to totally private fire departments and sanitation collection as well?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. That is what the right actually wants I think

they want to privatize everything... INCLUDING the military. Why the military don't do things like logistics any more.

There are valid reasons to be critical of the police... and to rethink how they are trained. But to be critical about them being a paramilitary organziation... been there done that since oh the 19th century. There are valid reasons for that... but that is a whole different discussion. And to those critical about the police being paramilitary, so is the fire department...

[BrklynLiberal]

16. Just the word "paramilitary" makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Yeah but there are valid reasons for it

you need all those silly ranks in the middle of a massive incident since you will have a lot of people comming from all over. That way you can establish a clear chain of command FAST.

It don't matter if you are from Tijuana or Tecate. The person in charge is the person with rank or command by authority... and that is where all those silly ranks everybody learns to recognize, as well as silly vests (Incident Commander, Triage, Communications, et al) come in. And why you need to be able to establish that fast. IMHO you could not do it without a certain level of discipline that people are trained into early on. But that is just me. And it don't matter if this is a major shootout, a major fire, or a major mass casualty incident.

Where you get into trouble is when everthing starts looking like a nail to you... then all is solved with a hammer. It is not the strucutre, but how we train people and how we treat all. And many American PDs have gone into all is a nail, therefore we need a hammer. Part of it... is being so overstretched... part of it is bad training...

[BrklynLiberal]

18. You are right. Organizational knowledge is priceless...and essential.

I guess I am nervous about the connotative implication that seems to arise when someone, somewhere wants all the power. That hammer mentality....

[Chulanowa]

20. "(Which is a terrible department for other reasons)" says it all

Maybe if the police weren't simply a gang supported by our tax dollars, with all the corruption that entailed, maybe things would be better in Oakland. Maybe - just maybe - if we didn't have an police lobby convincing us that every moment of our waking lives we are in terrible danger and need ever more even more militaristic cops on the street with fewer legal restrictions to combat the colored people "thugs" you wouldn't be gnawing your nails ot the quick. Maybe - here's a thought-provoker - MAYBE if people who act like the watchdogs for police corruption and violence were not the target of police intimidation, harassment, and violence with absolutely no legal recourse, things might be better.

Until all these problems are addressed, we need more cops like we need more Crips

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. So crime stems from cops?

Who knew?

Look you don't like police in general and OP in particular... I get it. But I'm going to bet a dime on the dollar that when you need to call 9.11, you will.

By the way... my local department had some issues... and a GOOD, with TEETH civilian supervisory board turned the department around... and that could also happen in Oakland.

But to do that, you need taxes and you need money... and cutting PD's all over due to lack of funds is a RIGHT WING WET DREAM.

[Chulanowa]

23. They certainly contribute

By their very nature, cops do not prevent crime. They're a reactive measure once a crime has already happened.

If I need to call 911, yes, I'll do so. However I do so with the understanding that I am taking a personal risk in so doing. I do so with the realization that whatever my problem is, it's very likely the police who respond will be more intent on finding out if I have any illegal plants on the premises. I do so with the understanding that if what I need is an ambulance, I am quite likely to get police instead, and you can give them all the moustache rides you like, but nothing will turn a cop into an EMT.

And I'm all for paying for a good, powerful civilian supervisory board. How about you take a moment to stop shitting bricks and read my original post, the one where i'm all for paying more taxes for needed infrastructure and services? I know your dick is all hard and springy over the fact that I don't think we need any strengthening of the unaccountable and corrupt paramilitary force that has replaced our nation's police departments, but there IS more to what I said.

And I hate to break it to you... but so long as police are blowing away handcuffed and prone black men and tazering bedridden black grandmothers, the right wing is all for expanding and funding the forces. Priorities, you know. If forced to choose between using intimidation an force to keep the colored and the poor docile, and cutting taxes needed to do so, well, the right is going to keep paying the taxes.

Apparently so are some on the left.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum

when I called 9.11 when dad broke his hip... not ONE cop showed up on scene.

We had six firefighters, and two EMTs...

Funny how that went.

And yes I know about police abuse... very aware of it. But this is easy to solve with GOOD civilian boards. Funny thing is... THEY DO COST MONEY and that money don't come from donations. It comes from taxes.

And no, not all officers are saints... far from it... but hell whatever. I guess cops cause crime to go up due to their presence... who knew?

Oh and for the record officer, what's his name, from the BART should have gotten at the very least a second degree murder conviction.

[Vinca]

10. Well, the right loves to say that if you cut taxes,

more money comes into the government. I don't know where the money is, but I'm sure it must be stockpiled somewhere from the Bush years.:sarcasm:

[BrklynLiberal]

14. It's all in Iraq.....at least that is where it was sent..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1

How the US sent $12bn in cash to Iraq. And watched it vanish

The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent.

The staggering scale of the biggest transfer of cash in the history of the Federal Reserve has been graphically laid bare by a US congressional committee.

In the year after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 nearly 281 million notes, weighing 363 tonnes, were sent from New York to Baghdad for disbursement to Iraqi ministries and US contractors. Using C-130 planes, the deliveries took place once or twice a month with the biggest of $2,401,600,000 on June 22 2004, six days before the handover.

Details of the shipments have emerged in a memorandum prepared for the meeting of the House committee on oversight and government reform which is examining Iraqi reconstruction. Its chairman, Henry Waxman, a fierce critic of the war, said the way the cash had been handled was mind-boggling. "The numbers are so large that it doesn't seem possible that they're true. Who in their right mind would send 363 tonnes of cash into a war zone?"

<snip>

[B Calm]

13. and this adminstration just gave the working class a tax cut. . . .

[lonestarnot]

22. This librul wants TO LET the richies' tax CUTS EXPIRE!

How's that for raising taxes. Hmmmmf.