Will Americans allow the politicians to cut Social Security and Medicare?

[raccoon]

Remember, the Bush gang wanted to privatize SS, and Bush went around trying to sell Americans on the idea. It went over like a lead balloon.

I know Americans, the vast majority, aren't into activism and apparently are apathetic about what goes on on the macro level.
When they believe that something doesn't directly affect them, such as the wars, they don't try to stop it.

But Social Security and Medicare directly affect, or directly will affect, every American. This time, it's their ox that's being gored.

I could be wrong. I have been before, believe it or not :rofl:. But I sure hope I'm not.

[burnsei sensei]

1. I'm sure that many Americans think

that they are somehow indestructible.
Bad things only happen to those people (and they deserve them).
I'm going to be rich someday.
Two statements that are at the bottom of the most selfish mindset in the world, and perhaps in all history.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

2. Lobotomized Americans have been turned into ignorant deficit hawks

by media manipulation and forces like billionaire Peterson who are handing the public the rusty razor to slit their own wrists with and the public is eagerly reaching for it.

The children! The children! they all moan. What kind of a world are we leaving our children?

After gutting Social Security and Medicare, and having successfully staved off any real healthcare reform and with wages falling and umemployment rising daily, the answer is that you will be returning the precious children to the world of Oliver Twist and Victorian England. That is the kind of world you will be leaving them.

[Better Believe It]

15. Not so! We shouldn't accept and repeat the false propaganda spread by the corporate media and

"deficit hawk" politicians.

The 24/7 "news" coverage on the "deficit crisis" is an attempt to manufacture a crisis and public opinion.

I think we need to be careful and recognize that fact and not accept that false propaganda as being true, much less repeat it.

Would you like some progressive news links that explain and expose this propaganda in detail?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

20. You misunderstood. I was saying that if the deficit hawks win

THEN

"After gutting Social Security and Medicare, and having successfully staved off any real healthcare reform and with wages falling and umemployment rising daily, the answer is that you will be returning the precious children to the world of Oliver Twist and Victorian England. That is the kind of world you will be leaving them."

In other words I was refuting the propaganda that calls for gutting social safety nets.

It could have been clearer.

[CTyankee]

39. Except that when the report of Peterson's effort with his America Speaks

conferences came out all wrong for him. The group I was in said NO to cuts in Medicare and SS. We said MORE should be allocated, not less. And lo and behold this was being said all across the country in their local conferences not just here in blue New Haven, CT.

There's no appetite for these cuts at all. People are not going to slit their wrists on these two programs, despite all the ballyhoo from the media.

Think about it: even younger folks are not gonna want to have to take over the health care costs of their aging parents. The young and the old will form a wall of opposition.

What may happen is that Medicare and SS will be means tested. If that means the rich pay a lot more, well fine. I would have preferred single payer but it's time the rich paid their fair share...

[MadHound]

3. Yes, they will.

There's a reason why this vote will be coming up in December, namely it can't be a factor in this fall's election or 2012(since that is two years off and Americans have short political memories). If you notice, this commission isn't making the MSM very much right now, before the election.

Furthermore, there are those who will defend these actions. Some Democrats and Obama supporters will support anything that is done, will justify cuts, age raises, etc. simply because it is Democrats who are doing this. They will be joined by 'Pugs who are hawkish on deficits and who don't like social programs to begin with.

While there will some resistance from the left, we will essentially be ignored, and we will see SS cut in one form or fashion or another.

[bobbolink]

33. I absolutely believe you are right on this.

After seeing the lack of concern right here on DU for cuts to poor folk, what you are saying rings very true.

[Bragi]

4. Americans will obey and blame themselves for the problem

For the people in charge, the beauty of America is that you can take away peoples' jobs, foreclose their houses, steal their savings, no-one will take to the streets, and most people will agree that it's their own fault that they find themselves in such a bad situation.

I see no reason why now stealing the pensions they paid for would suddenly move Americans away from being the docile, obedient, isolated and frightened people that they have become,a nd that the folks in charge so value.

- B

[old mark]

5. Sure. Americans allowed Bush II to start and conduct 2 wars for no real reason except

ego and profit, and cheered when he expanded them both long after the "WMD" reason for the wars was found to be totally fraudulent.

Americans have been manipulated for so long by various media - even the "entertainment" media- that we will passively believe everything and act on nothing...after all, it is all "god's will" and we poor folks are not as good as the rich so they must know better than we do what is good for us.

And the president is always right, unless he's a Democrat...


mark

[havocmom]

6. Americans are letting the MIC kill sons, daughers, sisters, brothers for profit

Frankly, I think the powers that be have been wearing people down with more and more bad news and crisis stimulation, while letting people sink economically to the point many drown and most are afraid, that more people just don't have the energy and courage to keep up with the class war.

And the powers that be are turning SS into a generational war. That is how they always win. They turn groups of us against each other to keep us busy hating anybody but them, the real authors of all out current terrors.

When I see more here speaking out for the powers that be screwing everybody, I figure that reflects badly on what is going on in the general population.

We are losing. We will lose. But those with nothing left will become very very dangerous after a while. You and I won't live to see the cycle reverse and the coming dark age turned back by enlightened momentum again, but it will happen. It always does. We humans seem not be be learning much about avoiding the same pitfalls over and over. The top tier is just as guilty of that blindness to historic cycles as us peons.

Still, we have to fight. The Mahatma was wise when he reminded that no mater what we do, it is very important that we do it.

We must not be the beasts who go willingly to slaughter. We must be humans, think, fight for what is good.

[griffi94]

11. i wonder how long until we bring back debtors prisons

[havocmom]

27. That, and a means tests for voting registrations. SC is so far right, it could happen

Been sorta expecting one or both any ol time now.

[tularetom]

7. Never underestimate the gullibility and wussiness of Americans

Of course we will allow this to happen.

Once Fox starts spreading the fear that the country will go broke and we'll all be living in, basically, Somalia, we'll BEG the politicians to cut Social Security and Medicare.

[Better Believe It]

12. Do you think the Democratic Party will lead the opposition against those cuts like they did

when the Republicans pushed Social Security cuts?

I don't think Fox News can achieve those cuts alone without support from President Obama, Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress and a bi-partisan lovefest in Washington that will make the "tough decision" to cut our benefits while they increase theirs.

So don't blame the people and make them scapegoats for the actions of Washington politicians.

[griffi94]

18. i don't think there will be much opposition.

i think you nailed it with the bi-partisan lovefest. democrats will sell it as needed reform that has the backing of both parties. republicans will scream socialism and threaten to block it. it will of course pass even with no repubs voting for it (it's important that no repubs vote for it. that way when it doesn't work it belongs to the democrats outright).

it will touted as a good "first step" to controlling the deficit with all the pain up front and the "fixes" to be added later when we have a bigger majority in congress.

the poor get fucked.
the wealthy get to keep more of their money.
grandma gets to eat catfood.
obama gets a "win"
the status quo is maintained.

HOORAY FOR OUR SIDE.

[tularetom]

23. Maybe, but why do the liberal media keep saying Americans want deficit reduction

above anything else?

Americans have been beat into submission. We are told we want to reduce government spending more than we want jobs and we don't say shit.

Yes the politicians are part of it but we don't have to take it. And the "tea party" crap is an example of this. Sure those idiots are protesting but they have been manipulated into protesting against the wrong policies. If they wanted to help themselves they would march on Wall Street and hang a few banksters in effigy rather than Obama.

Sorry, but we are a bunch of wimps.

[Better Believe It]

31. Which "liberal" media?

[tularetom]

34. That's my point

Didn't really think I needed the :sarcasm: thingie.

[xchrom]

8. Neo-liberalism is sinking into the american brain.

It's wrong - just like neo-conservatism was wrong.

But the people won't understand what's happening to them.

[inna]

16. Neoliberalism has been practiced against the American working people for 30 years...

It's simply escalating at this point.

[Better Believe It]

9. But now huge Social Security & Medicare cuts will be sold by Democrats and Obama in a

bipartisan lovefest with Republicans!

[inna]

14. Bush couldn't do it because of public outcry. Obama has much better chances

because of the bipartisanship factor and manufactured deficit hysteria.

[Edweird]

10. It's not looking good.

[Oregone]

13. 3D Chess

Yes. Americans can rationalize away any pain

[Davis_X_Machina]

17. If you can write the legislation...

...so that the cuts apply only to colored people, and still pass 14th Amendment muster, hell yeah.

[ozone_man]

19. It's OK, if a Democrat does it.

As long as that evil doer Bush doesn't do it.

[RadicalTexan]

21. Are you still living under the delusion that we actually have any control?

:shrug:

[boomerbust]

22. no

[FBI_Un_Sub]

24. Kill two subsidies

If we are really serious about deficits, we can flat out kill two subsidies

1. $2.00 per gallon -- the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are Cheney Bush subsidies of $2.00/gallon to "project power" into oil lands. These subsidies are to allegedly protect our oil.
   
2. Tax preferences for oil operations -- depletion allowances, tax credits (not deductions - do the back of the envelope calculations) for taxes paid to oil lands, timing of deductions, etc. $85 billion per year!

We are in the energy mess we are in and the fiscal mess we are in because of this.

[LWolf]

25. Yes.

They have allowed, and are allowing, the gutting and privatization of public education. Why should SS and Medicare be exempt?

[LibDemAlways]

26. Ordinary Americans have no say. If Congress passes

a shitful bill and the President signs it, it becomes law. Americans are certainly free to write letters and make phone calls. They can even participate in a demonstration or march. But all evidence indicates that those they elect to "represent" them don't give a shit about their concerns.

We could, of course, vote them out of office. But what's to stop their replacement from being even worse? I see here in CA nasty ass Fiorina is ahead of Boxer in some polls. That, in itself, speaks volumes about the public - and it ain't pretty.

[blueworld]

29. Amen. +1000

I've written, faxed, emailed & called my Congress critters so many times over the last 10 years some of the staffers know me by name. They sympathize (or not) and some don't even bother with a form letter follow-up.

The ones that do always include some stellar resume of their work about how they eliminated rashes on airplanes by demanding anti-bacterial soap or some such sh*t. Then they ask me for money & vote against whatever legislation I asked them to vote for.

I sincerely don't even bother anymore. I either write to the editor or post on certain websites.

[Paper Roses]

28. Any Washington politico tries to cu t S.S .or Medicare will find

this old lady in line with every other old timer with the guts and gumption to speak up.

We PAID for both and damn well deserve to get the proceeds of our mandatory payments.

To change things now is breach of contract.

[TheKentuckian]

32. I appreciate your fire but the "old timers" will be exempted and most will then cheer this on

or sit silent as the generations behind them get eviscerated.

Meanwhile, those younger generations have either internalized they weren't going to get it anyway and are getting shafted by having their money "stolen" to pay for the old, are against the social safety net (shit tons of Libertarian types between 45-60), or in part will buy anything sold by their side.

We shouldn't be in the slightest danger, this was not so long ago the batshit drumbeat of the extreme Reich but divide and conquer along with a multi-generational propaganda campaign is putting us way under the gun.
The wealthy power brokers appear to have reached a consensus and they aren't going to be beat back with half or more of rank and file Democrats going along, cheerleading, or swallowing hard for the "team".

[MisterP]

30. only if people of the correct party do it

because, you know, the Other Guys will destroy Medicare and undermine the economy, whereas the Dems' Catfood Commission is noble and glorious

[bvar22]

35. It will be over and done before most Americans realize what has happened.

The "VOTE" will be to "accept the Commission's Recommendations without debate."
"Social Security" may not even be mentioned during this "historic" vote.


The "politicians" will all gather in front of the TV cameras and congratulate themselves on their heroism in reaching a "bi-partisan" consensus on "saving" Social Security.
THAT is how the sellout will be framed..."Saving Social Security."
They may even hang up Mission Accomplished Banners.

Some here will form Victory Parades and cheer wildly.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. If left to their own devices, yes. But thay have no choice. TPB will make the decision for them.

We are simply spectators.

[defendandprotect]

37. Unfortunately, many are believe right wing propaganda re budget crisis . . .

and if they have any trust in Obama at all they will believe that it's necessary!

That is . . . if we're really unlucky!!

But we've seen this before -- what the GOP can't do, the Dems frequently pick up and

move thru!!

[Enthusiast]

38. There will be hell to pay.

Social security is sacred to Americans. They are willing to see nearly everything else cut to preserve social security and that certainly includes the military industrial complex. How can we possibly be talking about increasing the retirement age when we have troops in over 100 countries around the globe? It is ridiculous.

[mmonk]

40. Some will, of course. They are believers, not fact checkers.

They will swallow anything.