Like dominoes - health insurance, education, now Social Security and Medicare?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

The DLC/New Democrat train is leaving the "private markets" station at high speed.

Is this truly what we thought we were voting for? I will speak for myself and say, no, I didn't have a clue that this was the direction we would be headed in. Romneycare? The dismantlment of public education and teacher union busting? Assaults on the largest and most vital social safety nets?

I literally can't believe that a Democratic President, Senate, and House is coming up with this stuff. Up is down.

[nRkiSt]

1. It is sooo over for Amerika

unless the people abandon the two party system and take back the power.

[Birthmark]

23. Over?

"Over? Did you say 'over?' Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!"
Arrrrgh!

[liberation]

72. Germans?

Forget it, he's rolling......

;)

[sasquuatch55]

89. Do you really think the white racists are going to allow a Black president to change the Status Quo?

We have been duped again.

[jgraz]

90. It has nothing to do with white or black

And everything to do with rich or poor.

[sasquuatch55]

92. Indeed?

nt

[YOY]

95. Yeah...them anti-Obama Dems are racists!

They just don't understand that a black man can be just as greedy and subservient to the oligarchs as a white man!

F***in' racists!

Speaking in general of course about no particular person. No particular person at all!

[im1013]

113. +1,000,000

:banghead:

[TBF]

116. Yes, it has always been class warfare and continues to be... nt

[newspeak]

177. so, anyone remember the words of Malcolm X?

He basically said that he believed that one day there would be upheaval in America, it would not be black against white, but rich against poor.

[newspeak]

181. wanted to add

that MLK, before he was assassinated, was publicly speaking about poverty and worker's rights. I believe that the elite don't mind the white against black meme, it actually helps them by keeping the people divided---but the wealth disparity-rich against poor meme-I believe that scares the shite out of them. Because if that meme took off, there'd be a whole lot of people together (doesn't matter the color of the skin).

[Foo Fighter]

155. Oh c'mon now. It has everything to do with white or black.

After all, Obama has proven that a black president is every bit as capable of selling out the interests of the poor and working class as any white president ever was. Oh wait...

[Faryn Balyncd]

150. The problem is that the status quo IS being changed . . . . (for the WORSE)

Talking about change not coming fast enough misses the point. We are getting change, and getting it FAST.......the problem is that it is going in the WRONG direction.......Democrats are about to accomplish what a reactionary Republican could never do.......DESTROY Social Security.

[truedelphi]

122. hey Bluto, I wondered where you'd gone off to.

Good to see you are still in form.

[RKP5637]

2. Amazing, absolutely amazing. n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Birthmark]

12. Concise and accurate.

Obviously, I agree.

[thereismore]

66. Right on. nt

[liberation]

76. I disagree, the old republicans are the new democrats...

... the new republicans are the ones coco in the head with all those teabags.

[lonestarnot]

156. +10!

[laughingliberal]

84. +1 nt

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brickbat]

6. Chess, pony, whaa, whiner, glass half-empty, cynic, doom-and-gloomer, you want him to be like Bush?

There, I think that about covers it.

[havocmom]

10. Your forgot Poland & Palin

:hi:

[QC]

13. And "HE DOESN'T HAVE A MAGIC WAND!1!!!1!!" n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. You forgot, "And he's only been in office for 19 months!"

Talk about the tyranny of reasonable expectations!

[Brickbat]

22. Right, right: Wait until after the midterms! Wait until his second term! Wait until...oh...wait...

[liberation]

73. You must be a teabagger! (that's my favorite)

[Winterblues]

35. Enjoy your Social Security if and when you receive it.

:shrug: Bankers are loving what's happening.

[pecwae]

58. I don't expect to ever see it.

I used to believe I might.

[pattmarty]

77. Leftbagger, purist.............

[mkultra]

180. +1

[TBF]

117. The latest I saw was puppy ... nt

[Moochy]

188. You also forgot BOLD blue LINKS to outdated sources

[Odin2005]

7. We are SOOO fucked.

[cordelia]

8. K&R

[KeyWester]

9. I am shocked , I tell ya

"I literally can't believe that a Democratic President, Senate, and House is coming up with this stuff. Up is down."

Ya the nerve of those nasty Dem's, ...

Passing a stimulus package to save the nation, never before had so much money been spent so fast on tax cuts for the middle class, the nerve of them.

Passing HCR and laying a foundation to work off of, ending pre existing conditions, and creating an exchange to make sure everybody gets covered, the nerve of those traitors.

Pulling out of Iraq , the troops have been cut to half already , the nerve, we want more war.

First time home buyers credit, junkers for clunkers, unemployment extensions, Lilly Ledbetter, SCHIP expansion, credit card reform, stem cell research .....The nerve of these guys.

I'm voting GOP, fuck this traitorous shit.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. The nuggets of gold are buried in a lot of crap

Tax cuts for middle class - good.

First time home buyers credit - good. But they also could have focused on creating a better program to keep people in their homes. Plus the home buyers credit is just a temporary stimulus, just like cash for clunkers. When it's over it's over and the underlying situation hasn't really changed.

I'm all for pulling out of Iraq AND Afghanistan. I would like the Administration to tell me what the mission is and when we'll know we have accomplished it. Nation building doesn't cut it for me since that means we'll be there forever.

SCHIP great - no one would argue that. But healthcare reform overall was a pathetic band-aid that does nothing to cure the major underlying problem of COST. Ending pre-existing conditions - extending that out for adults for 4 years was unconscionable.

Credit card reform was just that they had to be clearer in telling us HOW they were screwing us, it didn't stop the actual screwing.

Yes, stem cell research is nice. It's a no brainer. Lily Ledbetter is also nice, extending the statute of limits for sex discrimination, but it didn't really act on ending sex discrimination itself or moving equal pay issues forward.

So a few nice things but a many large crappy things -

Ruining a once in a generation chance to substantially alter our defective healthcare system, because we needed to maintain and preserve our uniquely American "private delivery systems" ranks as the greatest failure to me. Now that I more fully understand exactly what it was that Arne Duncan "accomplished" in Chicago, I can't believe anyone would put him in charge of the nation's schools.

Dismantling/weakening the social safety net wasn't anything I recall voting for.

[Birthmark]

24. And nuggets is pretty generous.

Pebbles or flecks is more accurate, imo.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

94. Good one!

:spray:

[obxhead]

125. ...

:wow: :applause:

That was great, needed it.

[NorthCarolina]

126. Nailed it.

:spray:

[latebloomer]

136. Mind if I steal that?

:rofl:

[jgraz]

157. heh -- steal away

It'll be my one lasting contribution to the public zeitgeist: turd...peanut...snickers bar. :evilgrin:

[Prana69]

137. AGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

I just spat coffee all over my monitor.

That's is close to the funniest thing I have ever heard.

Thankyou.

P69er

[mochajava666]

173. That is a gem. I can't wait for the opportunity to use it. Thanks!

[newspeak]

176. I never heard that one before

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: GREAT!

[leeroysphitz]

179. +3950

[HughMoran]

28. Yeah, those awful awful Dems

What are they thinking - trying like heck to better the lives of Americans!

[YOY]

71. Me so happy me have friends like yoo!

[Zhade]

101. If only they'd really tried.

NT!

[OnyxCollie]

34. The things you listed

require an element of hope.

Hope that HCR creates an exchange to make sure everybody gets covered.

Hope that the US pulls out of Iraq.

Hope that the stimulus saves the nation.

Hope is pretending a different outcome will occur despite what the current trend predicts.

Hope is not reality, and it does not belong in a scientific examination of politics.

Hope is for the ignorant.

Deaf, dumb, blind, and born to follow.

[blindpig]

168. Well said

Hope dissuades action.

Damn Pandora.

[nightrain]

68. let's just take one of the issues you mentioned-- "HCR"--

Have you looked at the rates for the pre-existing pool? I have.

Here's the deal for a middle-income, 50ish, self-employed person in my state. Paying full premium, because the income is slightly beyond those getting a subsidy, the choices are:

$500 deductible per year -- monthly premium is $480.
$1000 deductible per year-- monthly premium is $430.
$2000 deductible per year-- monthly premium is $386.

Medical Out of Pocket Limit per member-- 2 choices -- $2500 and $3500 per year
Pharmacy Out of Pocket Limit per member-- 2 choices -- $2950 and $2450 per year

PLUS, the plans only cover 80%! Each "member" would have to cover 20% additionally.

Who administers the plan? Who reaps the financial reward? Blue Cross.

If people could have afforded health insurance before, they would have probably tried to buy it, these rates are no better than before "HCR".

This is not affordable for middle income people.

What is needed is a single payer program, an improved Medicare for all.

If the US would get out of Afghanistan and Iraq and reduce military spending, we could ALL have health CARE, not insurance.

[stevenleser]

118. And in a single payer plan, your additional taxes would exceed that.

In every country that has single payer, their federal taxes are above 50% some by significant margins. So, if you are "middle income", lets say for arguments sake that means $50K per year, you have what you noted above for HCR vs. $25,000 or more for a single payer plan. Gee, let me think...

[nightrain]

135. I'd like to see updated Taiwanese figures. At least the countries that

have a single payer system are getting something for the investment! I think your numbers are probably high.

At one point I heard that Taiwan was spending about 4-6% of their GDP on health CARE, and that it wasn't sufficient to meet the need.

Check out the life expectancy and any other morbidity and mortality stats for those countries vs what the US has. We suck. There's an enormous benefit to providing real care for citizens, and think of the emotional security factor as well... The rich could certainly contribute more than they are currently in the US.

[Agent William]

141. That's complete bullshit...

I would like to know what you're sources are. I know from personal experience that the tax rate for the UK is ~35% of ones's income... and the quality of the NHS is superior to even the best 'insurance' plans in this country. Also while we're talking about Britain's National Health Service, let us consider that each tax payer pays 40% of what Americans pay for shitty corporate-coverage. When the government controls quality and overhead cost the end consumer (the British public) saves drastically. Does your insurance company cover in part dentistry? How about vision tests? How about seeing specialist in short order? All for roughly $3,500 a year.

In countries that do pay ~50% in taxes, that money, collected by taxes, goes to items other than universal healthcare. Remember that most countries that do have single-payer/universal care also offer more services to it's citizenry.

I'm too tired now to defend the merits of Universal coverage. I hope you just forgot the 'sarcasm' emoticon.

--Will

[JDPriestly]

151. The other countries get a lot more for their tax money than just

single payer health insurance.

[Expat Sue]

153. cost of Australian single payer (Medicare)

I am a dual US/Australian citizen and live in Australia. Australia has a single payer system (Medicare) for all citizens/permanent residents augmented by optional private health insurance. Medicare costs are levied on your taxes. The fees are: 1.5% of your taxable income for most individuals. If you make less than about $20,000 in taxable income--you don't pay the levy at all (but can still receive Medicare benefits); if you make over about $140,000--you pay an additional surcharge of 1.5% of your taxable income (which is waived if you have private insurance). These figures are approximate as taxable income thresh holds depend on other factors such as whether you are a senior, pensioner, or have dependent children.

Oh, and the taxable income rate for most middle class Australians is about 30%.

[harmonicon]

160. wow... that simply isn't true.

Do you really think that, or are you just trying to spread lies? The most common tax rate in the UK is about 20%, but people who make too little to be taxed still get the same health coverage as anyone else, as do those who are taxed more.

[truedelphi]

123. Exactly. But then Rahm and his buddies over at "Big Insurers 'R Us"

Would have been pretty upset.

And the ObamaRahma duo has to keep the dudes at Blackwater and DynCorp happy too.

It's the American Way.

[YOY]

69. All it takes is a Scooby Doo lunchbox...WITH a THERMOS!!!

n/t

[sabrina 1]

81. What about mercenaries? Last I read there were more

mercenaries, like Blackwater eg, in Afghanistan than U.S. troops. We have privatized the military also, another job well done for the MIC.

Does anyone really believe that those billions of dollars are going to the troops as they would have us believe?

It's time to stop falling for 'we're withdrawing the troops' as if that means anything. All they need to do to legitimize the Mercenary presence there is keep a small number of troops in the country.

I want to know why the media does not tell the American people that 'support the troops' is just a slogan. When they tell you they NEED those war supplementals to 'support the troops' who are not responsible for the wars, they are lying.

Where is the accounting of how much of that 'troop money' goes to mercenaries now?

Who needs the U.S. military when we have a growing private army of mercenaries to fight our wars-for-profit?

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

102. FUCK. YES.

What you said.

[YOY]

111. That was Rockin' with Dokken!

n/t

[Prism]

114. Truly the dream warriors of our age n/t

[Zhade]

100. HIR. Not HCR. Stop pretending otherwise.

NT!

[inna]

163. HCD. (Health Care Deform.) nt

[inna]

164. HCD. (Health Care Deform.) nt

[ProudDad]

110. Well, I hope you got THAT out of your system.

Thanks for the strawman fest... :eyes:

[leeroysphitz]

178. Yeah we are pulling the troops out of Iraq all right. One massive head injury at a time.

Bring them all home NOW.

[Spheric]

11. K&R /nt

[cali]

14. really? you mean our wonderful health care system has been knocked over like a domino?

[Birthmark]

16. No, the wonderful health care reform that should have been...

...was knocked over by a version of Republican plans. Left wing to center-wing plans were eliminated from consideration as quickly as possible.

[defendandprotect]

144. Right ... Howard Dean identified what passed as the "Romney Plan" . . ..

as though we needed to be told --

The best opportunity we've had yet to pass Medicare for all was destroyed --

[Birthmark]

15. Yeah, it's pretty amazing

I read Obama's campaign website, so I knew he wasn't the ultra-liberal that the right were trying to claim he was. However, most of what I've seen is right-to far right of center. That has certainly come as a nasty surprise.

[quiet.american]

18. Exactly what facts are you basing your "privatization of SS & Medicare by Obama" meme on? nt

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

33. Here is an article where WH health advisor Zeke Emanual daydreams about ending enrollment for Medica

and replacing it with a (surprise!) voucher system. It's from 2008

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zeke-emanuel/sustainable-health-care-r_b_114788.html

Just like his brother Rahm bragged about all the other great privatizing things this admin has done - preserving the private delivery of healthcare, "open markets" for education, etc.

I think this White House is just loaded with Chicago School of Economics Neoliberal privatizers, from top to bottom. It is becoming more evident by the day. Rahm ,Zeke, Arne. Look at the overt effort to bust teachers unions. Plus look at who the administration listens to for financial guidance - Summers, Rubin and Geithner?

Are the pieces of the puzzle starting to come together? They are for many.

[quiet.american]

37. Indeed, that's a pre-HCR "daydream" from two years ago that in 2010 has nothing to do with reality.

There's no "fact" there. This was Emanuel's vision for healthcare reform that was not put into place and is not part of healthcare reform as passed. Obama rejected the voucher idea from Emanuel and Republican Paul Ryan alike, because it was clear a voucher system would not keep pace with rising healthcare costs. Here are some actual facts about what's going on with Medicare and Social Security right here and now in 2010:

Medicare:

June 25, 2010:

....the President signed H.R. 3962, which *prevents* a 21-percent pay cut for doctors participating in Medicare. Had Congress failed to act, some physicians would have been forced to stop taking Medicare patients. That’s not an outcome that the President can accept.

The pay-cut fix is retroactive to June 1, and it doesn’t just undo the cut: *it actually represents the highest update since 2001.*

And to make sure that doctors see relief right away, the President also signed a directive to the Department of Health and Human Services instructing them to cut through the bureaucratic red tape and implement these changes immediately.

The bottom line: with today’s signings, doctors won’t need to worry about a drastic pay cut, and seniors can rest assured that the care they need will be there when they need it.

From a WH Q&A session on Medicare:

Vic Eng: Can more be done for seniors who want family to care for them in their later years? Families need to be compensated as much as health care assistants.

Yes, more can be done. The Affordable Care Act includes an important new program to help seniors and others stay in their homes by making community-based care an alternative to nursing homes. The program, called the Community Living Assistance Services and Supports (CLASS) Program, is a voluntary, enrollment based insurance program that provides Americans with a cash allowance to help subsidize costs of staying at home if you get sick or disabled. This program will be available in 2012. For more information about the CLASS Program, click here.

The new law includes a number of additional provisions that make it easier for seniors to stay in their community, rather than a nursing home. For instance, the new law gives States the option to extend full Medicaid benefits to certain individuals receiving home and community-based services. In addition, the “Community First” Choice provision allows States to offer community-based services to Medicaid beneficiaries with disabilities who would otherwise require institutional care.

Additional items:

A one-time, tax free $250 rebate check for seniors who hit the prescription drug “donut hole” who are not already receiving Medicare Extra Help. These checks will begin mailing on June 10 and will continue monthly throughout the year as beneficiaries enter the coverage gap.

Free preventive care services like colorectal cancer screening and mammograms and a free annual wellness visit.

Community health teams will provide patient-centered care so seniors won’t have to see multiple doctors who don’t work together. The new law also helps seniors who are hospitalized return home successfully—and avoid going back—by helping to coordinate care and ensure they have access to support in their community.

The new law levels the playing field by gradually eliminating Medicare Advantage overpayments to insurance companies while protecting guaranteed Medicare benefits. Instead of overpayments similar to the last several years to insurance companies, the new law will base payments on the local cost of providing guaranteed Medicare services. Medicare Advantage plans will also receive new bonus payments based on performance (e.g., for providing care based on preventing diseases before they start, and care that stops diseases from getting worse). Participating health plans will also be prohibited from charging higher out-of-pocket costs to seniors than traditional Medicare for similar services.

Over the next 20 years, Medicare spending will grow at a slower rate, as a result of eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. This will extend the life of the Medicare Trust Fund by 12 years and provide cost savings to Medicare beneficiaries. In 2018, seniors can expect to save, on average, almost $200 per year in premiums and over $200 per year in co-insurance compared to what they would have paid without the Affordable Care Act. Upper-income beneficiaries ($85,000 of annual income for individuals or $170,000 for married couples filing jointly) will pay higher premiums. This will impact about 2% of Medicare beneficiaries.

"Hospital Compare" service at Healthcare.gov

Upgraded website tools at Medicare.gov

And this link is not specifically related only to Medicare, but it certainly is not something I look over and go "tsk-tsk, he done me wrong":

http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/immediate-benefits

The above are not daydreams, but are what is happening right here and now.

Social Security:

Protecting Social Security

President Obama believes that all seniors should be able to retire with dignity, not just a privileged few. He is committed to protecting Social Security and working in a bipartisan manner to preserve its original purpose as a reliable source of income for American seniors. The President stands firmly opposed to privatization and rejects the notion that the future of hard-working Americans should be left to the fluctuations of financial markets.

Strengthening Retirement

In addition to preserving Social Security, President Obama will make it easier for Americans to save for retirement and prepare for unforeseen expenses. Currently 75 million working Americans—about half the workforce—lack access to retirement plans through their employers. The President’s budget lays the foundation for all Americans to participate in retirement accounts at work, enacting simple rules and automatic enrollment that experts estimate will increase savings participation to 80 percent for low- and middle-income workers.

From Speaker.gov:

We are committed to providing middle-class families with the tools they need to achieve retirement security. The AmeriSave Plan will expand and improve existing retirement accounts, such as 401(k)s and IRAs, so that American families can benefit from the power of compound interest while retaining Social Security’s guaranteed benefit. Under AmeriSave, nearly 100 million Americans will be eligible for the “AmeriSave Match,” which will match dollar-for-dollar the first $1,000 contributed to an IRA, 401(k), or similar retirement plan.

We will strengthen retirement security without adding to the deficit. The AmeriSave Plan will increase national savings and grow our economy while helping middle-class families prepare for a brighter future.

There are many more layers to this legislation that empowers *people*. I don't expect these facts to change any hearts or minds, nevertheless, they are the facts, not speculation.

[cornermouse]

50. The fact is he's already privatized health insurance

and he's well on his way to trying to privatize social security, apparently. There are too many things wrong with HCR and your canned opinion from elsewhere to go in to right now. So let me just ask a simple question.

What good does it do to have free health screenings when you can't afford to do anything about it if the biopsy turns out positive? Seriously, if you find out you have colon cancer or breast cancer and can't afford to co-pay on the surgery without going into debt for several years at the minimum, how are you better off?

[Amonester]

109. I hear **crickets** from our quiet american on your important question. n/t

[quiet.american]

187. The reason being, one man's "important question," is another's "where do I start." nt

[stevenleser]

119. In order to "privatize" something, it had to be nationalized first. Or are you modifying meanings of

words?

[quiet.american]

186. As someone else pointed out, healthcare has never been nationalized in this country --

-- so it's COMPLETELY INACCURATE to claim that Pres. Obama "privatized" healthcare.

What part of "reforming healthcare" did you not get?

This was never supposed to be the "Abolish the Insurance Companies Act."

The purpose was to "reign in the abuses of the health insurance industry" which is exactly what has been done.

This may get my reply to you deleted, but I have to ask what kind of willful ignorance asks "What good does it do to have free health screenings when you can't afford to do anything about it if the biopsy turns out positive?"

Were you in a cave during the HCR debate or do you just want to continue on with your head in the sand? Geez, Louise.

I used to think liberals had more going on upstairs than not. Your post seriously makes me question that.

[dflprincess]

51. "..will match dollar-for-dollar the first $1,000 contributed to an IRA, 401(k),

or similar retirement plan"

In other words the "Amerisave" Plan will funnel more money into the stock market. Just hope that doesn't tank (again) right before or after you reitre.

And "The President stands firmly opposed to privatization and rejects the notion that the future of hard-working Americans should be left to the fluctuations of financial markets."

He used to oppose insurance mandates as well and pretended he wanted a public option. The insurance bill proved that we should wait to see what he does, not just believe what he says.

[quiet.american]

190. If you hadn't noticed, the economic philosophy of this country is capitalism.

In addition to keeping Social Security secure, the President and Democratically-controlled Congress are saying, let's take this country off the bottom tier of industrialized countries when it comes to saving; let's incentivize it; let's get those companies who do not offer a savings plan (except for golden parachutes for executive management) incentivized to offer one; let's double your savings through your working life by matching every dollar you save -- you've started a 401k that's up to $16,000 -- we'll match it -- now you have $32,000 --

Yet, you make that into a sinister thing.

Re: public option. Take the tunnel vision off the term "public option" and Google the name "Jacob Hacker." Who is "Jacob Hacker"? The "father of the public option." Google what he had to say about the final HCR bill and why he put forth the notion of a public option - for what it was supposed to achieve. Notice who he blames for the failure of the public option to make it into the final bill --hint: not President Obama. Then understand what he said could be done to bring the draft of the HCR bill into line with the reasons he suggested a public option. Compare that to President Obama's Proposal (The President's Proposal) and to the final bill that was passed.

Too much work? Yeah, I thought so.

[liberation]

74. I love when people use talking points as fact...

... whitehouse.gov said all sorts of things when Bush was president, I guess they were right too then.

[Hannah Bell]

65. by the fact that those are the only things the catfood commission is talking about, for one thing.

even though social security is a completely worker-funded program & in surplus.

by the fact that various members of the catfood commission have openly floated such proposals.

no talk of cutting defense, or contractor pork, or raising income taxes on the top 1%, or capital, or corporations.

it's all about cutting the safety net. which they have no mandate to do.

why is the fucking catfood commission even TALKING ABOUT social security? it has NOTHING to do with the federal debt or deficit. it's not funded out of income taxes. it's not part of the regular budget, which IS funded out of income taxes.

quit denying the obvious, it's past ridiculous.

[KansDem]

79. "no talk of cutting defense, or contractor pork, or raising income taxes on the top 1%, or capital,"

Not to mention the 52,000 accounts of American tax cheats in UBS Bank (Switzerland) alone. And that's only one bank. What about the Cayman Islands? Lichtenstein?

I pay my taxes, why can't the super-rich? Go after them and get back taxes, interest, and penalties. That alone should go a long way in reducing the deficit...

[JDPriestly]

161. Actually, Congressman Xavier Becerra (California) is a member of

the cat food commission. I heard him talk about the need to cut military spending before talking about cutting other things. He said this very recently.

Becerra just doesn't get much time on national TV or radio.

[Hannah Bell]

165. you're right. he also made mention of the human face of possible cuts.

that's one.

is there another?

[pattmarty]

174. That shouldn't surprise anyone. The only comments that get "press"......

.......are the ones saying that SS & Medicare are bankrupting America. AND, most on the cat food commission are right wingers. Stacked much?

[pattmarty]

80. "Cat food commission"? It's another of his commissions and he.............

..........appointed all the RW hacks.

[NorthCarolina]

19. It's not your fathers Democratic Party anymore.

Thanks to the efforts of the DLC (now going by the new-and-improved moniker "New Dems" for cover), they've ditched the Democratic Party's "peoples advocate" role in favor of competing with the GOP for big money interests. Vote the DLC New Dems out, or acquiesce to their politics...there is no other choice.

[blindpig]

20. Ain't so much that 'up is down'...

It's more like 'no more mister nice guy'. It is the need of Capital for new 'investment opportunity' along with a perception that the people have nowhere else to go and will sit for this shit for lack of a plan. We gotta prove the latter assumption wrong.

[inna]

25. Neoliberalism trascends political parties. The trend started over 30 years ago,

and has been escalating.

All of this is totally predictable. Classical Friedmanite economics and neoliberal policies, at global level now.

[OnyxCollie]

26. "I literally can't believe that a Democratic President, Senate, and House

is coming up with this stuff. Up is down."

It's a masquerade.

Brzezinski, Z. (1956). Totalitarianism and rationality. The American Political Science Review, 50(3), 751-763.

Noting that totalitarianism in the past has seemed largely irrational, it argues that the rationalistic routines
of the indispensable managers of the industrial society will necessarily transmit themselves to the
totalitarian leadership and gradually effect a fundamental transformation of the system itself. This
transmission will be aided by the fact that the totalitarian movement has become highly bureaucratized
and therefore shares in many of the operational patterns associated with running the industrial machine.
Furthermore, it is argued, the totalitarian movement itself has become increasingly staffed by the
managerial-bureaucratic elements to whom party membership means no more than an important club
association necessary to satisfy career ambitions.

~snip~

To be less totalitarian such operations would have to involve some degree of withdrawal on the part of
those in charge from their commitment to total social and economic engineering, thus granting to those
living under the system the opportunity to make important choices not in keeping with the goal.

But such a politically meaningful development would in turn involve a further condition, which at the
present appears highly unlikely, namely the decline of ideology and a basic reconsideration of the firmly
instituted schemes of economic development. Barring that, the totalitarian economic system would
continue to exert pressures for the maintenance of a dictatorship capable of enforcing the kind of
discipline that such total plans demand. It is doubtful that as long as the party remains in power the
tendency of the regime to stress unattainable goals will vanish. Indeed, it is these goals, inherent
in the current ideology, which justify to the population the sacrifices which the party's domination involves.
Thus, as long as the party continues to hold its successful grip on the instruments of power, we can
expect it to continue stressing first the long-range goals of an ultimate utopia, and then the consequent
sacrifices to achieve them, even though possibly at a diminishing rate of effort.

Even if the Party declines and is supplanted ultimately by the bureaucracy (or merges with it), the total
control of the system over those under it will not disappear even though its exercise will become more
functionally rational. In such a system it is likely that the institutional controls will be utilized to maintain
the existing interests of the ruling class, and social stratification will become even more marked as
position, education, and even wealth become inheritable.

[nashville_brook]

38. you wouldn't happen to have a link to the whole article...that's pretty fascinating.

[HughMoran]

27. If you are prone to see everything in a negative light

Then yes.

Not buying a ticket on the negativity train, sorry.

[Birthmark]

31. One can also be prone to see everything in a positive light

We saw that in about 30% of the population for the previous eight years. Analysis of actions should determine our conclusions, not shirt color.

[havocmom]

41. and those who always walk in overly positive light can get a bit squinty

and end up stepping on rakes, tripping over shoe laces, hoisted on own petards. But some just like positive glare blinding them to the real obstacles, it would seem.

[Birthmark]

42. Bah!

You're just basing that on evidence! You people in the fact-based community... :)

[havocmom]

46. OTOH, we could make a bundle training seeing eye dogs

Economic stimulus, baby! :evilgrin:

[Birthmark]

47. LOL! Always thinking, aren't you? nt

[havocmom]

52. yep. Wish I had an off switch

Life would be SOOO much easier. Some of those rose colored cataracts would make things easier too.

Damned eyes keep seeing reality.

[Birthmark]

55. I got somethin' that'll slow you down!

Rush Limbaugh...naked. (Let the puking emoticons come forth!)

[havocmom]

56. HA! I am virtually puke proof

and Rush only gets me fired up to fight the stooopid even more.

[Birthmark]

57. I should have known.

The "mom" should have tipped me off. :)

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Birthmark]

48. Ouch!

That's gonna leave a mark!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

103. How do you breathe through all that sand?

NT!

[Greyhound]

182. The Power of Positive Thinking

is neither.

Thanks for another demonstration.

[meow mix]

29. not what i voted for.

i was decieved imo, none of these policys were mentioned.

[YOY]

70. No...and if they would have said they were going to they wouldn't have gotten elected.

Life is a funny thing...

[NNN0LHI]

30. Your timeline is inaccurate. It actually began with the US auto industry

And it was not just DLC/New Democrat's who said feh, screw them overpaid autoworkers, I am going to buy a Honda.

Take my word on this one.

Don

[defendandprotect]

145. Isn't capitalism allegedly about producing a better product . . .??

Should consumers ignore the better product -- ???

Or should the American manufacturer produce what the customer wants??

The alliance of the auto and oil industry didn't help us much, either -- !!

[NNN0LHI]

175. Don't you mean an allegedly better product ?

Buy what you want but when there is no one left to purchase whatever service or product you provide and puts you out of work how are you going to keep buying those allegedly better cars?

Any ideas on that?

Don

[defendandprotect]

184. For 30 or 40 years the "better" product has been a foreign made car . . .

and even today American manufacturers sell "better" cars to Europeans than we

can get here!!

First -- we don't buy new cars --



Don't you mean an allegedly better product ?
Buy what you want but when there is no one left to purchase whatever service or product you provide and puts you out of work how are you going to keep buying those allegedly better cars?

Any ideas on that?

Don

and you're making an aged argument -- especially since Clinton moved us into the trade agreements!

Meanwhile, evidently people are buying home-made cars again -- and the Obama stimulus . . . eh . ..

what did they call it . . ? Cash for cars? Whatever . . . it helped American manufacturers.

Insane to have to say it but 40 years ago we had cars with higher mileage which people don't

know --

The problem with the American car manufacturers is their alliance with big oil --

And, actually, our overall problem is pretty summed up right there --

elites/royalists/capitalism/control of natural resources --

and no challenge to it by our elected officials --

[LWolf]

32. k&r

[nashville_brook]

36. i really wonder who is in charge.

[Individualist]

39. Pro-corporate DLC is in charge.

[sasquuatch55]

91. Facsism?

nt

[YOY]

104. Izzat anything like journaljism?

n/t

[fascisthunter]

108. Wall Street, and they have plenty in Congress to do their bidding

[defendandprotect]

146. Well, now that we understand the problem . . . which we could have understood 40 years ago . . .

what now???

[bvar22]

40. The insult to the injury:

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[Laelth]

44. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

-Laelth

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eyerish]

53. K&R

[EFerrari]

54. And foreclosures. There's a huge land grab going on

and all that has to be done about it is nothing.

[pecwae]

59. Kicking and rec.

Running out of 3rd rails.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. You're very right. It seems to an ongoing and accelerating pattern

A little parable . . . . .

When the pyramids were built, it is not certain if the labor was provided by slaves or if it was paid. Let's assume it was paid. Thousands upon thousands of ordinary people labored, some for the rest of their lives, to move massive stones great distances, to raise them to great heights, and to position them with great precision. All this was done so some salted dead guy could be sealed in a gold container and be hidden away for the ages. The aggrandizement of a Pharaoh. The aggrandizing was on the sweat off their backs. We all know who Tut is. Or Ramsey. But we have not a single clue as to the identity of those thousands upon thousands of nameless, faceless laborers who toiled for the betterment of someone else.

Today there is no one Pharaoh who we work to serve. But the analogy stands. The Pharaoh is the Community Of the Uber Wealthy. They take the sweat off our backs for their aggrandizement. We remain nameless and faceless.

I suspect we're seeing the final, massive wealth grab. They've come for our pennies. Our meager retirements.

Its all about to go.

And we squabble among ourselves about absolute fucking NONSENSE.

[freebrew]

64. +1 n/t

[earth mom]

96. "They've come for our pennies. Our meager retirements."

That line should be an OP! Yes, it's the final massive wealth grab.

It's unbelievable that some people around here still refuse to see what is being stolen from them right before their very eyes! :wow:

[jgraz]

61. And the worst part is, if they went in the opposite direction

the Dems would be in power for the next 40 years.

What was that phrase Rahm used on the liberals? :shrug:

[mdmc]

62. still a little better then what Palin would do

USA!USA!

[asdjrocky]

63. KnR.

[mmonk]

75. I'm working on something and it will hold nothing back.

[Cleita]

78. Considering Friedman economics position of privatizing

social programs has failed in every country that has tried it, tells me our country has been sold to the highest bidder. I think we are going to have to found institutions that do these things because our government doesn't exist anymore that can.

[laughingliberal]

86. +1000 nt

[sabrina 1]

82. Okay, Social Security is not a done deal yet.

On second thoughts, I hope not. But assuming they're still working on the strategy to get support for privatizing it and it is NOT yet a reality, what are we going to do about it?

When Bush tried this I remember big organizations like AARP and other unions getting involved. Where are they now? Can we depend on them to stop it as they did before?

Have they even addressed it yet? We can put up a real fight starting now.

I read the Democratic members of Congress are angry at the WH for not supporting their reelection campaigns. They are now admitting that they voted for some pretty awful bills, like HC against the wishes of their constituents, to support the WH but are not getting anything now and are worried about losing in November as a result of supporting the WH agenda.

So, how about starting a campaign of calling those up for reelection and telling them how right they are to be worried if they voted for the WH over their constituents, but we will support them if they make saving SS from privatization their #1 issue in their campaigns starting with smashing the lies of the Cat Commission?

I already called Pelosi on this issue, didn't get any response. But I will try again and again if necessary.

On our side is that Dems are nervous about having participated in the privatization of Education and HC. Now is the time to start scaring about doing the same thing with SS so that they stand up to the WH and its Commission.

[Zhade]

105. FANTASTIC IDEA. This should be an OP call-to-arms!

Seriously, do it!

[sandyd921]

83. Can't say I'm not PO'ed

but I'm not at all surprised. I knew going in to the 2008 election that Obama had DLC/conservadem leanings. I also knew that many of the Democrats, especially in the Senate, lacked backbones and/or were almost as corporatist as the GOP. We have a dysfunctional governing system at the national level that has been bought and paid for by a wealthy elite (the multinational corporations and military industrial complex). At the same time we don't have much in the way of a national news media that let's people out in the hinterlands know what's really going on unless they dig for it on the Internets and lots of the folks out there are hustling just to keep their kids fed and lack the time (and maybe the inclination, given the dumbing down of education) to find out.

[Dinger]

85. Well As Long As I Can Still Vote,

I'll vote for politicians who represent me, not those who fuck me over. You are right Phoebe. K & R for telling it like it is.

[NorthCarolina]

127. And then Diebold will correct your vote to the "approved" candidate.

eom

[Dinger]

129. Well, I Guess I'll Vote On Principle Then

I don't know what else to do.

[spoony]

171. If enough of us vote that way

instead of because we've been terrified by the greater/lesser evil spin, we'd really break out of the cycle and see action. All we can do is vote like you said and hope enough others are ready for real change.

[laughingliberal]

87. K & R nt

[earth mom]

93. During the primaries, some of us tried to warn people that this is exactly what would happen

and few listened.

"Hope & Change" was a brilliant plan orchestrated by the EVIL DLC I must admit.

So, I'm not surprised by any of it. Pissed off to the nth degree, but not surprised. :grr:

[Zhade]

106. Unfortunately, it was him or Clinton, an equally pro-corporate DLC flack...

...with a propensity for getting caught in a lie by video evidence, just like his "I didn't run on a public option" bullshit.

[NorthCarolina]

128. Of course. The MSM whittled it down to those 2 candidates early on.

I believe that our elections involve more choreographing than campaigning.

[Dinger]

131. I Disagree

I think the media whittled it down to one pretty early, like the speech in 2004, for example. Was it me, or was that a little premature?

[NorthCarolina]

140. I hear ya, and have thought the same thing

Often.....:hi:

[defendandprotect]

147. Agree . . . btw, Sen. Whitehouse in 2012 would be great with me -- !!!

[Moochy]

189. yep

the necessary illusion of democracy and all that rot.

[blindpig]

169. Only pro-bidness candidates make the cut....

the rest is just for show.

Words don't mean jack if they serve the purpose of the moment, we see how well that has worked. 'Get over it' indeed.

[eridani]

115. The other "realistic" choice was another DLC candidate

Remember NAFTA, welfare "reform," telecoms "reform"?

[defendandprotect]

148. Right . . . .

though Obama purposefully distanced himself from the DLC -

otherwise had I known I would NEVER have voted for him --

We need Howard Dean back --

[Greyhound]

183. Yes, but nothing will direct more hate toward you than going against the flock and being

proved right.

Peace.
:hi:

[defendandprotect]

97. That's just our problem in trying to wake up people ... they are too trusting . . .

Try to get people to understand how suicidal patriarchy and capitalism are?

No one thinks that way -- so it is hard for anyone to believe that capitalism would

be so sick and stupid as to make the planet we live on and depend up so ill with

pollution and nuclear weapon and every other kind of crap that they produce and dispose

of!

And, yes -- this is Obama having appointed this commission . . . does he somehow not know

that the people on it have always been dead set on destroying and eliminating Social

Security and Welfare?

Shall we believe that we didn't get MEDICARE FOR ALL because Obama didn't understand what

other nations had -- or that we couldn't afford it?

As yourself those questions . . . !! PLEASE!!



:) :) :)

[Lorien]

139. For too many here it all boils down to "Democrats=GOOD, Not Democrats= BAD"

There's zero critical thinking involved. They cherry pick what they view as major accomplishments by leading members of the party and polish them, blow them out of all proportion and cling to them like a life raft. Reality hasn't got a chance. THEY are the ones helping to destroy our party from within, and take all non-wealthy Americans down with it. We need to organize and demand that our Representatives do indeed begin to represent US! Write, call, hammer away at them until they get the message. Being an enabler is every bit as bad as working for the opposition at this point. The results are the same.

[defendandprotect]

143. Agree --- especially re hammering away at them . . . and organize, unite -- !!

A few decades ago, the party began to become the party of the rich --

that should have been a big clue as to what was going to happen --

Somehow it is little noticed that the people they support just coincidentally

keep moving the party to the right --

Corporations are organized and united every which way -- up/down and sideways --

But not even Senior Citizens are united -- except thru AARP which is an insurance company!!

Right wing propaganda certainly works --

especially to create fear-based thinking!!

:)

[rucky]

172. It makes it really easy for them

to do whatever the fuck they want - knowing they can always count on 30% vocal support

[defendandprotect]

185. Looks like times might be changing . . ..

seems to be a lot of resentment out there bubbling up from the bottom --

Maybe I'm wrong?

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MannyGoldstein]

99. "Who the %^&# else ya gonna vote for, chump?!"

"Vote for me again or SARAH PALIN immediately becomes President! SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN SARAH PALIN !!!!"

That's the strategy. We'll see if it works.

[DesertFlower]

107. i am totally disgusted.

if you asked me today "do i love my country"? you might not like my answer.

[Steely_Dan]

112. I Would Love....

To find out what the demographics are for those who are disappointed in President Obama and those that continue to make excuses for him. I would bet that those defenders of our President are younger than those who have expressed disappointment. Are there exceptions? Of course. But generally speaking, the "new" Democrats do not have the history behind them to even remotely understand what the traditional dems are saying.

Maybe this will serve as a reminder...

But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

JFK, September 14, 1960


-P

[TBF]

121. I've thought about that as well and I would imagine the radicals actually

skew older. The Boomers were on their feet in the 60's and I'm betting many are on their keyboards now. Between that we have 30 years of very conservative rule with Reagan, Clinton & Bush.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

124. A great quote. Thank you. nt

[G_j]

132. you may well be right

and an excellent quote!

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dinger]

130. So You're Calling Phoebe a republican and Anyone Who Agrees?

Is that cool now? I don't think so.

[obxhead]

133. The cheer leading reminds me of Republicans of the last 8 years

The fact checkers during that 8 years I could get along with just fine. It was the blinded cheer leaders that always got to me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

134. Why am I reminded of the primaries?

Something about HRC supporters being "low information voters"? :shrug:

Obama actually promised 60% and is now delivering 90% of that. It's really not his fault that supporters expected 120%.

[Lorien]

138. Bait and switch. We would have expected it from the GOP and we would have protested

had they been doing what the Dems are doing. Now we bicker among ourselves while they push the corporate elites agenda relentlessly forward because we "trust" them. The GOP keeps it's hands clean, the teabaggers squeal that they aren't pushing far enough to the extreme Right. The 0.5% wins and the rest of America and the globe loses.

[NorthCarolina]

142. We would have protested it from the GOP

and now we are hard pressed to even discuss it here on DU.

[Faryn Balyncd]

149. Would we have been better off with gridlock?

[scentopine]

152. Rigid centrists will claim that the dec. of independence was wrong...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Corporations whould be allowed to charge whatever they wannt for medical care- corporations should be allowed to use your retirement funds to supprot their lavish lifestyles. Colleges and universities should be allowed to charge whatever they want for tuition, oil companies should be able to drill baby drill.

This shit is killing us.

Centrists and republicans have created the new crown corporations. BP and wall street are excellent examples.

We sold the gulf of mexico to BPP for 20 billion. In return they get to keep using toxic dispersants, keep reporters away (national security and all that).

And given how rigid the centrists are - you can bet like bush, cheney, wall street CEOs, et al - prosecution is off the table.

This is the world we get with centrists. Just a steady degrading quality of life as centrists help corporations engorge themselves on cheap unregulated labor. They are just licking their chops over SS. And they see Obama as weak negotiator so the push is on.

With republicans its easy to disagree because they are so transparent. There is nothing more dangerous than the extreme centrists and the great wall of mediocrity they defend.

[Raksha]

154. K & R

[pa28]

158. Amazing.

I keep thinking about the quote. "Only Nixon could go to China."

The items GW Bush wished for but could not reach are on the table now and blessed for a quick passage in the new Congress. No fingerprints, no long debates, just a railroad job in an atmosphere of fear and misinformation.

The time to contact your representative is now. Once we get into a "discussion" period on the deficit commission the debate will already be framed and key votes only days away.

[harmonicon]

159. yeah, I knew what I was voting for.

That doesn't mean that I was happy about it, but it was pretty clear to me. Bill Clinton was seen as a conservative Dem when he was elected, but somehow between the far right and the media, over eight years his positions became characterized as being radically leftist. That played a role in moving the entire country to the right. I thought, and said, that in voting for Obama I was voting for things to not get any worse than they were, and I think that's basically panned out. With a Republican in office things would have kept going downhill. Shit's all sorts of fucked up - what else can I say? Time to start working towards that UK residency permit, I guess.

[waronbanks]

162. Quite simply our government is now controlled by the

Corporate Sector. Once you realize that then the dismantling of government safety nets makes sense. Its easier to grasp when you know there are no longer 2 parties.

There is only one...the Corporation. Thats who Obama and the administration work for. We have seen too much evidence of this to keep denying it. Lets accept we were screwed again by the corporate class and my guess it will continue until we stand and push back hard. And I KNOW that aint gonna happen.

[WVRICK13]

166. All Of This

while protecting the tax cuts for the wealthy. What would happen to the budget if we pulled out of both wars and repealed the top tier tax cuts?

[katandmoon]

167. K&R

[PerpetuallyDazed]

170. I WANTED Kucinich... ended up voting for Obama... thought I knew what I was getting into. n/t