Is having a house pet "animal cruelty?"

[Renew Deal]

[PBS Poll-435]

1. Only if your house is stinky

Or you like to leave broken glass & nails on the kitchen floor.

[mikelgb]

2. Depends on the pet and the house and the owner, but in general, NO!

[REP]

3. Today it is. Cable's out.

[Mimosa]

4. My kitteh master is ROTFLHAO!!!! n/t

[superduperfarleft]

5. Where's the option for strawman? n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Bingo!

So obvious. :eyes:

[superduperfarleft]

I voted "yes" just because I'm a dick. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

21. You should have seen the circumcision thread(s)

Dicks everywhere.

[superduperfarleft]

23. I was there. I got hit in the eye by flying foreskin.

I had a block of frozen peas on my face all night.

[ZombieHorde]

73. Funny. nt

[Renew Deal]

19. Sorry, but I think the question needs to be asked.

I want to understand where people are coming from. If people believe that all pets should be banned because of the potential for animal cruelty, do they also believe that pet ownership itself is cruel?

[superduperfarleft]

22. I believe the institution that makes most pets available is cruel.

The act of caring for an unwanted animal is not cruel. The things that happened to that animal that makes it necessary for me to care for him is cruel.

And as I said in the other thread, no one is banning pets.

[Renew Deal]

25. You understand that a lot of house pets are former strays?

You're not going to find a single person on this site that thinks "pet mills" are acceptable.

[superduperfarleft]

33. All of my "house pets" (I hate the word "pet") are former strays.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm opposed to treating animals like products, which leads to strays, overpopulation, etc. I'm not opposed to adopting from a shelter or rescue.

[Renew Deal]

40. Don't shelters charge an "adoption fee?"

I'm opposed to treating animals like products too. But I don't think for profit pet stores should be outlawed.

[superduperfarleft]

42. Shelters charge an adoption fee to discourage hoarders, Class B dealers,

or otherwise uncommitted people.

http://www.petrescue.com/petlibrary/pet-rescue/the-tragedy-of-free/

Trust me, these shelters are not raking in the bucks by charging a nominal fee to adopt out an animal.

And you can't say that an animal is not being treated as an object if he or she is being sold for profit without any regard for his or her needs.

[Jazzgirl]

53. I adopted a kitty for the first time ever 5 months ago.

I paid $15 as an adoption fee (my friend that was with me thought that was wonderful) and that included the pet carrier to take her home. She has turned out to be the best pet I have ever had. I have had 5 previous cats but haven't had one for 27 years until I got her. I have had many, many dogs, including cats and dogs living together. I wouldn't trade the kitty I got for any other kitty in the world. She is not a product but my baby girl.

[Tailormyst]

85. Shelters here charge a fee that covers shots and spay/nuetering.

My cat cost about 100-120ish 7 years ago.

[Kalyke]

91. Well... I think pet stores should be barred from selling animals

any larger than ferrets (i.e. no selling dogs and cats).

Most dogs and cats who come from pet stores are treated miserably: they're puppy and/or kitty-milled, piled atop one another, over-priced, under-nourished, mal-medicated and generally in poor disposition.

I have absolutely no problem with someone who wishes to purchase breed-specific pets, but those should come from reputable breeders. All other dogs and cats should only come from shelters.

[SunnySong]

48. Rednecks with free puppy signs outside thier rusting trailer?

Honestly mose people avoid puppy mills like the plague... as for cats well unlike dogs they reproduce on thier own (You got to go to Puerto Rico or Georgia to find actual mutts anymore.)

[Catherina]

26. +1 n/t

[Ignis]

32. It's Vote option #4, right after "Push Poll."

[blondeatlast]

41. +1. nt

[Raven]

6. If it is, then I'll let my two doggie princesses out to roam the woods

and find their own food and sleep on the cold hard ground instead of my bed...:-)

[Renew Deal]

12. lol

:rofl:

[yella_dawg]

7. Lord Rufus says Yes!

Gotta run, the master needs out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I do wonder WHO OWNS WHO?

I am well trained by my parrot overlords!

[TriMera]

27. I don't wonder.

I am thankful that the dog lets me stay in her house. She's really sweet about it,too. She treats me just like one of the family and, in turn, I try not to soil the carpet. :hi:

[AlienGirl]

55. Silly mammal, birds don't count as pets! They are the Rightful Inheritors of the Dinosaur World

[Ignis]

58. I lol'd.

:thumbsup:

[JHB]

63. +1

Beat me to it.

Same joke, different species.

[kirby]

9. Mine was rescued from a shelter...

He receives proper care, love, and exercise.

[Ruby the Liberal]

10. My cat lives better than I do.

Eats better too. :D

I'm lucky she lets me stay here with her.

[blondeatlast]

11. Neither rescued Wheaten Sasha nor her tabby litle brother think so; they agree that

I seem to be very happy.

I tend to agree! ;)

[Rex]

13. That depends on if you think it is better to let your local animal shelter

put down said potential pet. I think saving animals from a horrible and painful death by injection or gas chamber might be a good thing, but that's just me.

[Liberal_in_LA]

14. My cats live like royalty

[Johonny]

49. even the happiest slave is still a slave

they should also be arrested for public nudity.

[Ignis]

50. "they should also be arrested for public nudity"

:spray:

[Warpy]

16. The cat who owns me doesn't feel it's cruel, at all. I just asked her

and got a patronizing nose lick for an answer.

I think she likes her bowl that's always full of kibble and her warm place to sleep. From time to time she enjoys the company, too.

She's 17 years old. She'd have been dead at least 12 years ago in the wild.

[Riftaxe]

17. I don't know, is throwing a stick in the lake

and forcing my labrador to fetch it on a 90+ degree like today, water torture?

[racaulk]

18. In my house, I think *I* am the pet!

My partner and I have two dogs and three cats. They are very well cared for, get lots of attention, and quality medical care. Urban living can be brutal and deadly for any homeless animal, so my pets are all living longer and more stable lives than they would have living on the street.

I refuse to believe that my pet ownership is cruel in any way.

[distantearlywarning]

20. In my next life I want to come back as one of my cats.

They live better than probably most of the human beings on planet earth do. That includes me.

[Kitty Herder]

24. My cats come and go at will.

I think if they thought it was cruel, they wouldn't come back. As it is, they spend about 90% of their time in the house. Something about the controlled temperature, free food, and the petting seems to appeal to them.

[mikeytherat]

28. Four cats rescued from the streets (one literally in the middle of traffic), and 32 ferrets

rescued over the past 20 years (some saved after they were "set free") say, "No."

Cats had full run to the house, ferrets had the entire finished basement to run free. Everyone got plenty of love, sustenance, and all (often expensive) medical care.

Perhaps, though, they could have just died on the streets, cold, frightened, and unloved. Maybe they would have preferred that.

mikey_the_rat

[Ruby the Liberal]

36. Thank you for being involved in ferret rescue

I think too many people take them in as a 'novelty' without knowing what they are getting into (ferret proofing, etc...)

I had one for a few years until I had to relocate to a state that didn't allow them. Local ferret rescue found the little sweetheart a home with another ferret who needed a friend and I am eternally grateful to them. They are the SWEETEST creatures (my cats LOVED her!). I treasure my pics from her weekly bath and one where she is tearing through the cat's (once full) food dish with them sitting inches away, looking both amused and amazed while frozen in time. :D

[mikeytherat]

76. Mrs. Rat and I learned quickly that wayyyyyyyyyy too many people see ferrets as "$100 hamsters"

Not understanding their personalities (they are more like kittens or puppies than hamsters), not realizing the expensive and frequent surgeries they might need (adrenal and pancreatic tumors), not giving them the interaction and play that they need. Thankfully, two good friend are vets with their own practice (and I set up all their computer systems), so the surgeries were nominal. And I've assisted in those surgeries dozens of times.

mikey_the_rat

[KamaAina]

29. I actually know someone who refuses to get a *service dog* because they are bred.

If there were someone who trained shelter puppies to be service animals, she might go for it. :shrug:

[hyphenate]

68. Not as service animals, per se

But mixed breeds are allowed to be in the program that brings pets into nursing homes, convalescent homes, etc. I'm a blank as to what the programs are called at this moment, but if that helps at all, pass it on.


Oh, and forgot to say that a lot of purebreeds are in the shelters as well. They have to be rescued almost as often as mixes. I'm not exactly sure if a rescue organization can put you in touch with a service dog training program, but they're rescues first, and breeds second.

[iris27]

69. Therapy dogs n/t

[Touchdown]

30. No. That's so stupid!

Don't believe those loons who say that.

[RKP5637]

31. My previously homeless cat rules the house and I am his subject. I must adorn him with

praise, endless love, feed him well and clean his box everyday. In return I get endless love and a cat that is my 7x24 companion going on years now.

[Bluebear]

34. No, and my dogs think *I* am the pet, I assure you :)

[Ignis]

35. I'll ask a question in response: How many shelter animals do you currently house?

:shrug:

[Renew Deal]

37. 2

Cats :)

[Ignis]

43. That is awesome, and that is awesome.

Because cats deserve their own "awesome"; they won't share with dogs.

:toast:

[Touchdown]

47. You should ask if one is a calco, because that requires a third "awesome"

It's a calico thing. Persians, manx's & siamese wouldn't undersand.

[livetohike]

38. Both of my dogs were in high kill shelters before we adopted

them as eight week old puppies. I'll ask them how they feel about this poll :-).

[MoonRiver]

39. "Other"

IT DEPENDS ON THE PET.

[HockeyMom]

44. My cat

was recused as a kitten on a Long Island Highway, minus his mother. Nobody know where or what happened to his Mom. Would he have survived 20 years on that highway? Yes, he just celebrated his 20th birthday in MY HOME.

[Fuzz]

45. Only if it is of the Penthouse variety.

[flvegan]

46. *facepalm*

[L0oniX]

51. stupid poll = yes

[Old Troop]

52. Hmmm. Let's see: we feed them, water them, provide medical care

and, oh yea, pick up their shit. They lie around waiting for the next treat.

[H2O Man]

54. Ha!

[cleanhippie]

56. Its only cruel when you do not give then the attention that they need.

Yes, need. Food and water is a given, but not giving them the attention they need is abuse. Why keep the pet if cannot give it the attention it needs?

[jgraz]

57. There's a good case to be made when it comes to parrots

We're only starting to realize the effect that captivity has on a parrot. Some of them do quite well, others descend into neurosis, feather destruction and aggressive displacement behaviors.

Cockatoos are especially vulnerable to the psychological stresses of being a captive bird. Some go so far as to dig large holes in their chest muscles out of frustration and boredom. I'd love to see a stricter screening process be put in place for parrot adopters, similar to the licensing requirements for falconry.

[TexasObserver]

64. Any caged bird is being subjected to cruelty, IMO.

Keeping horses or other large animals in too small a space is also cruel.

[jgraz]

65. Not entirely true, but close.

I have several severely handicapped parrots who will never fly. Some can barely perch. I do my best to rehab them, but many of them will spend their lives in relatively small cages that are set up to keep them safe. Strangely enough, these are often the happiest and friendliest captive birds that I care for. They seem to genuinely love life and they don't really notice their disabilities.

Here's one of my guys, Hancock, snuggling with my girlfriend. He's quite disabled in this pic but has since learned to perch and play with toys.

[TexasObserver]

75. Injured animals are almost always exceptions.

An animal that is designed to fly and can fly should be able to fly.

An animal that is designed to run and can run should be able to run.

Some animals seem to make decent pets, at least to responsible pet owners. Other animals are ill designed for being pets. I do not care for the importation of any animal as a pet. Rescue animals? Take all you handle.

[JonLP24]

59. I'm committing "animal "cruelty" if it is to house a pet

I have 3 dogs. :)

[mod mom]

60. My 2 pound dogs chose us and they are seen as adopted members of our family.

since they are allowed to run free at times and have never lost sight of us, my guess they are very content where they are.

[Common Sense Party]

62. 2 pound dogs?

They need to gain some weight.

:hide:

[mod mom]

80. Very funny and very far from weighing two pounds.

To be clear they are former Pound Pups and weigh 75 and 55 lbs.

[cbdo2007]

61. Well if we didn't have her she'd be dead so....I'd say NO

They kill the dogs after 7 days at our local shelter and ours had been there for 10 days and they were so busy they hadn't put any down recently. They probably tell that story to everyone, but still we're lucky to have her. I'm sure she couldn't be any happier or else she'd probably jump the fence and go find happiness.

[GoneOffShore]

66. Only if you keep vegans and feed them meat.

[hyphenate]

67. We domesticated them

to the point where many of them could not survive on their own, so we are obligated to taking care of them. I only wish so many assholes out there would remember this, and stop harming them.

[distantearlywarning]

72. Yeah, exactly.

Even "feral" cats will often go out of their way to connect with humans, even if it's just to sleep under their porch in the winter or whatever.

I read a story once (think it might have been a book called "Selkirk's Island") about a guy who was shipwrecked on a very remote island in the Atlantic ocean. He spent a number of years there before being rescued. There was a colony of feral cats living there prior to his arrival. They were also shipwreck survivors, at least 5 generations past (i.e., they probably never saw a human being before he came). Although the adult cats were wary, many members of the first litters of kittens born after he got there deliberately sought him out and bonded with him without much effort on his part (something that was certainly not true of any of the other animal species on the island). He took the phenomena as evidence of the cat's inherent domestication - although they can live wild, they aren't truly a wild species any more.

Dogs are even more this way, to the point where many domestic dog breeds would arguably have trouble on their own.

You are right - we (meaning humans as a species) tamed them, and now we're responsible for them. It would be a cruel act to refuse to care for species we have genetically altered to be dependent on us. The best thing to do is to work on overpopulation issues, make sure we give them all a good quality of life, and enjoy the relationship. :-)

[Poiuyt]

70. Only if your name is Michael Vick

[sendero]

71. One time our cat disappeared....

... and we wanted another cat. We went to adopt a cat and we met a representative of an organization that offered cats for adoption.

Frankly, I felt like I was on trial. Question after question about how we cared for our previous cat and how we would care for adoptive cat.

At some point, to both my wife and I, it became like an inquisition. We realized that we were not on the same page with these people, who seemingly would rather a cat be euthanized than inhabit a less than perfect home.

We went to Operation Kindness and got a cat. She seems pretty happy.

[The Midway Rebel]

74. No man!

Cruelty is the joke played on me when I adopted Vikon, a 13 year old, chicken killing machine, Siberian Husky/Wolf hybrid. He had a cleft palate and should have been put down at birth but, somebody nursed him along till he got teeth and he survived a rocky puppy hood and eventual young adulthood. He was raised on a farm where, as a puppy, he slept under an old "Vikon" brand riding lawn mower. He became a notorious chicken killer; once, wiping out an entire flock of 24 layers in one savage swoop.

Because of his wolf/husky tendency to roam and commit wanton acts of violence upon the livestock, he was kept on a long chain. It was upon that same chain that he had wrapped his tender young right paw and foreleg when, quite by accident, that same Vikon riding lawn mower that had earned him his name, struck the chain with its spinning blades as it lie buried and hidden by the deep summer grass. The chain yanked violently tight around the young pup's leg and crushed the tiny soft bones. Alas, he survived the accident but would spend the rest of his long dog life with a limp and a stainless-steel rod inserted with screws into his right leg.

His first family divorced, the farm was sold and Vikon was pawned off onto a single city girl with barely enough time for the Husky she already had. He was around 10 years old by then. City life sucked compared to life on the farm but, likely suited his aging years. Besides, it was good to have a brother Husky to teach your bad habits to. Now and again his leg pain would flare and he would howl and writhe in misery. The vet suggested amputation.

Eventually, he came to my home.

It was good to be back in the countryside again. Mmmm, cow shit to roll in.

He had to be between 13 and 16 by now. I told my wife he'd be dead within a year or two. He was half deaf, half blind, going senile, arthritic and had that bad leg.

Everytime he ate, some of his food would lodge into his cleft palate. After dinner, he would chug gallons of water tyring to dislodge the food particles stuck in that hole at the roof of his mouth. Half of the water came running right back out his nose. This nasal condition left him prone to constant sinus infections. He would walk around sneezing and shaking his head, blowing snot,water and dog food all over everything in sight. I still have the contents of Vikon's nasal douches all over furniture, walls and even a few carelessly placed guitars.

He won't last long, I told myself.

But, no. On he went it seems, never stopping to consider the cruelty he heaped upon my wife and I in taking care of his aging, shedding, stinking, snot slinging, infected, half blind, half deaf, arthritic carcass.

He had a one mild stroke and then another but recovered with lots of patience, cans of tuna, and drinking through a turkey baster for a week.

Every night he'd still rudely bark and demand his dinner. Then, walk around, sling snot, lie on his bed and rubs his nose onto the blanket and bark loudly, as if to proclaim, "Ha, another day! Made it! Fuck you! This bed is mine! Life is awesome! Goodnight!"

Older and weaker he became. No bladder control, barely continent, we ashamedly and in hindsight, perhaps selfishly kept him on towels that we changed daily, held his hind quarters steady so he could stand to eat and drink, and carried him outside to stagger around to poop and pee.

Alas, his muscles could no longer hold his aging bones into socket. It was time to go. Indeed, it was likely past time to go. But lessons in love and cruelty are seldom short.

"How old is he?", the vet asked.

I had to think, was it 17...no 18...somewhere around 20?

"Well, he's nothing but a bag of bones anymore."

So long Vikon, I still think about you.

Cruelty, indeed.

[Romulox]

77. I feel bad for not allowing my cat to be an "outside" kitty sometimes...

I feel somewhat better in the knowledge that a) being an "outside" kitty is what lead him to be taken to the pound in the first place, and b) he would not likely have attained 15 years (with several more healthy years ahead!) out on the mean streets.

But it is something I've given a lot of thought to. As for the OP question, it's silly; cats and dogs, at least, chose us as much as we chose them!

[Upton]

78. Don't..

I have two cats, 8 and 11 years old. The 8 year old is a rescue and a one of the most beautiful loving pets I've ever owned. Anyway, they are both indoors cats exclusively. I would never think of allowing them outside. For so many reasons, it's just not the responsible thing to do.

[redqueen]

79. Yes, my cat definitely chose me.

I'm lucky in that since I took her in, she has expressed hardly any interest in going anywhere outside. When she is outside she's desperate to get back in.

[uncommon]

81. It's not really humane...

to let a housecat outdoors - especially unattended. They don't have the survival skills necessary. And no defense against cars. My cats are indoor only, occasionally if they are showing curiosity we will take them outside for a few minutes to get some fresh air.

[distantearlywarning]

82. We got cat fencing for our yard.

It keeps our kitties in and all other kitties out, so it allows them to go out safely without fear of cars or dogs or bad people. We've only had one escape in three years - it was due to a combination of heavy snow stretching the netting and a squirrel chewing a hole in it. Kitty didn't go too far, though - we found him lying on the neighbor's picnic table having a nap and then we fixed the hole.

It's the best thing we've ever done for our cats. They are so happy all the time because they get to go outdoors and chase bugs and lay in the sun. They get to truly be cats and do cat stuff but without all the risks of that behavior. (They're also both fixed and wear collars with tags, 'just in case'.)

The most expensive part was putting up the 6' privacy fence. The netting kit itself was only about $300.

On Edit: the system we use - http://www.catfencein.com/

[Romulox]

87. Thanks. We've looked at similar(ish) products in the past

(notably the Kittywalk stuff,) but the products you pointed out are new to me. For years, I have promised my buddy a "Florida room" (enclosed patio), but I am starting to wonder if I will be able to give him that while he is still with me. It will be a challenge, but this product might be an answer. Thanks!

[distantearlywarning]

89. You're welcome!

I know a lot of cat owners out there don't know that this sort of product exists, and I'm sure many of them would be interested in it.

[Arkansas Granny]

83. OK. I just asked the girls about this one and they have promised me an answer

as soon as they stop laughing.

[Tailormyst]

84. My cat certainly thinks so this week

We are moving to a more urban area next week and Eclipse is going to be a completely indoor kitty instead of a mostly indoor kitty. He is already shy and skittish (he's a rescue) but now he is also whining constantly and giving me dirty looks. Also the complete brushing to make sure he has no flea issue yesterday left him surely plotting my demise.

[snooper2]

86. Only if it's a pitbull

:rofl:

[Romulox]

88. I know you're joking, but Cesar Millan's pit is an awesome dog!

edit: WOW!

Many people don’t know that Daddy originally belonged to rapper Redman.



http://www.cesarsway.com/packgallery/packprofiles/daddy

[pipi_k]

90. More like "wallet cruelty"

We had our two girls in for shots in January, then wellness exams and more booster shots in June.

Two weeks ago one of them got a UTI...vet visit and meds

Last night one of them (the one who got the UTI) cut her foot pretty badly out on the stones in the dog yard. Off to the vet again this AM for exam, meds, surgical glue on injury...it started bleeding on the way home, turned around and went back and the whole foot got bandaged.


Total for all of the above....at least $800


We applied for pet insurance last week but it's not active yet.


Can't complain, though, because they're our "kids" and worth every cent.

:loveya:

[Brewman_Jax]

92. The cat doesn't think so

he even greets me at the door. I think that he thinks he's letting me in. :P

[LibertyLover]

93. I don't own pets -

my dogs own me.